witesoxfan

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:20 PM) That was Vargas....Javy kicked our ass earlier in that series. I was thinking it was Javy for some reason, but if it were, KW wouldnt have the mancrush he does on him. Or some lame line like that. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:23 PM) But the writers won't look at it that way, because that doesn't sell newspapers. They will focus on the millions of dollars that will be saved by trading him. You can bet on it. I understand the attendance side of things, but why should the White Sox front office really care what the writers have to say? If they keep the same team on the field they have right now, and they lose 90 games, what message do you think that sends to the fans? Selling JD will speed up the process, but maybe by 2 months.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:20 AM) who is bourgeois??????? Jason. Sox like claimed him off waivers or signed him as a 6 year FA or something. Anyways, looks like he'll be a career minor leaguer with a potential call up to the majors always a possibility for someone who reaches AAA. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/J...Bourgeois.shtml

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:21 PM) The 05 team pitched like crazy all year long with great starting pitching, and a deep bullpen. The offense was terrible in 05, not end of the world terrible like these guys, but bad in the AL. What happened was the offense got hot at the best possible time, late in September going into the playoffs. The pitching got back on track and everything flew. Here is another thing. When the ball was hit in play, someone made a play on it. We didnt beat ourselves. The entire offense seemed to get hot right when it needed to that year. I recall the drubbing the Sox put on Vazquez that year when they had like a 10 run inning, capped off by a Thomas 3-run jack; that fueled the team until like the ASB.

some time in the second half of last year. That's when this offense turned into the slow, lethargic, one-dimensional style of offense that it is.

That would be about the scariest scene in the history of the world.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 11:27 PM) It's all about money, and the fact that just a random baseball fan gets to be ump for one inning might sell more tickets then usual. It's the public address announcer, not just a random fan

QUOTE(Shadows @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 02:01 AM) uhh, where did you hear this? Im pretty sure Pence was never in the discussion.. it was Tavares, Hirsh, Buchholz for Garland all along from everything that I heard on it Kenny Williams never would have accepted that trade. Houston sure as hell didn't turn it down. Or if Houston did turn it down, it was after KW tried to get Pence included in the discussion.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 11:57 PM) The holier than thou, bright and sunny, we won it all 2 years ago so your an idiot for not liking us going from World Champs to 3rd worst team in the AL in 20 months people are just adorable. If you find this acceptable, there is a team 8 miles north that would enjoy your money. But KW has failed 6 of 7 years now, and our system lacks talent. That is pretty bad in my book, but hey whatever you say bud. Inform me as to how he failed in 2003 and 2006. To me, both of those years were entirely on the managers. KW put out two of the most talented teams I've ever seen in my life. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 12:01 AM) Our major league team is old and lacking talent, our minor league system is just generally lacking talent, and our division is much deeper than it was 6 years ago. Our attendance and fanbase are obviously WAY better, but the on the field product is no better. It's more accomplished obviously, but definitely not better. And everyone in the division is in envy of the White Sox organization for some fluky ass postseason run in 2005.

QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 10:03 PM) That's me. I'm ripping him. I'm not blaming him for tonight. But I am ripping him. Because 3 times a game, he leaves it up, and he gets rocked. If no one's on base, it's 3 runs. If Mr. Nibbles happens to put a couple of guys on beforehand, it's 5 or 6 runs. I'm tired of it. That guy symbolizes every mistake Kenny Williams has made -- his total fixation on guys, regardless of their abilities and track record; his belief that he's smarter than everyone else about "the market;" and his conviction that the organization he built can "fix" guys. Jesus, man, how about this: develop some players, reward the guys who have done something for the team (not those you think MIGHT), and stop b****ing about the world as it is -- just deal with it. Do you understand that Vazquez is the 4th starter for this White Sox team? Or that he's been essentially as good as Buehrle this year? He's been solid as hell this year, and has received 1 run in his last 2 starts and 4 runs in his last 3. And he's b****ing about the market because it's ridiculous, but he deals with it like every other GM, especially considering he signed Vazquez to a contract that is below market value and is for a short period of time. Honestly, the ripping of Vazquez gets a bit ridiculous at times; I don't recall such unwarranted hatred of a player ever. I mean, atleast Jamie Navarro sucked and Barry Bonds is a complete jackass. Javy just pitches well, never opens his mouth, and gets torn apart because KW f***ed up. Rip KW, not Javy; that's really all I ask.

I really can't believe anyone would rip Vazquez tonight. If the guy throws a shutout, the Sox are still tied. This is all on the offense. If anyone even cares anymore, that is.

and that is the story of Heads' life

I live in North Dakota

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 10:14 PM) I don't think Thome's going to hit number five hundred this year. There's almost 4 to go. I really think it all depends upon health. Seeing as how it does depend upon health, it's probably like 50/50 he does.

QUOTE(beautox @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 12:06 AM) Kemp will never play for the chi sox, ever. Abreu or Laroche, or that amazing defensive Asian SS who is hitting like there is no tomorrow, i think his name is Hu?. Chin Ling-Hu. And I'd love LaRoche, but I'm not sure they'd be willing to give him up. If they were, do you then have him be the 3Bman and move Fields to LF?

QUOTE(dasox24 @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 11:28 PM) Well, I stand corrected at least on the performance issue. I have a friend who is a Braves fan and never liked Betemit, so I kinda just assumed his stats sucked. My bad. I normally don't make mistakes like that. However, according to ESPN, he'll be 27 in July. Are they wrong? I've seen 11-2-81 as his birthday more than I've seen 07-28-80. It's a bit shady; we'll just say he's not in his prime years yet, and that his prime could go from 27-34. QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 10:54 PM) My question: Who's to say KW will actually trade Dye is he does in fact begin to rake? I'll hang up and listen to your answer(s). Thanks. I think it really depends on how far out the Sox are come about July 1st. I really don't see this team making a trade until July.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 10:31 PM) We need to do what the Yankees do and trade all our prospects for proven players. Right now we should start to rework the team by trading any decent prospects for veteran middle relievers (I know, none are available). greg, please tell me you're joking here.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) Oh and good luck giving Ichir(o) $17.5M (he's not going to get that much) a year and while re-signing Buehrle at the same time. Ain't happening. And good luck resigning Buehrle to a fair 4-year deal. In this market, that's an oxy moron.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 09:47 PM) On a sidenote....f*** trading Jermaine Dye for a reliever. That would be assinine unless we are talking about getting some sort of absolute stud reliever that is super young and amazing (and at that point we would be talking about a closer, something this squad already has). agree completely. The only way I want a reliever is if it ends up being like a worst case scenario type of situation, which is what it would be with Billingsley. Meredith, Ring, and Linebrink just don't do it for me.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 09:32 PM) nobody is laughing at you...i think you are exactly right....why trade your best yuong pitcher for 2 months of jermaine dye? You a. think Dye's the missing piece to your puzzle b. figure that, by acquiring him, you block him from going to San Diego c. have enough depth pitching wise to be able to afford losing 1 starter, regardless of how good his stuff is d. think you can resign Dye, and that it's worth resigning Dye e. don't think Billingsley will be the pitcher his stuff indicates he will be. b's actually really low on the priority list, but it's on there nonetheless. The thing is, if no one else is interested in Dye, then you have all the leverage in the world and don't have to give up anything you don't want to. At that point, the negotiations become a bit of a stalemate because the White Sox probably won't have to move him to receive compensation for him.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 07:32 PM) How about Dye, Crede and maybe a decent prospect for Broxton and Kemp? dude, Kemp is not coming to this organization. and sign me up for the Betemit and Billingsley for Dye and ________. Really, really like that idea.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 06:38 PM) Can we really get value back for Mark? It's not like 200+ IP, If we decide to sell, Mark will be the top starting pitcher available. If he is traded, KW damn well better get a king's ransom. With playoff experience and a ring too. He's a soon to be FA, which is about the only drawback, but he's going to be healthy, he's a damn good pitcher, and he's been there before. It's not like you're acquiring Jamie Navarro. And I almost agree entirely; he's going to have to maintain his current pace all season long, which is something I'm not sure will happen, but then again I can't see into the future and it's really up to Buehrle's health as to whether he does or not. I have to figure the Sox will be able to get 2 pretty damn good prospects for Buehrle, and if not, it's a failure.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 06:50 PM) Well thats this season, im sure there have been numerous times in the history of MLB where teams differed greatly from what the team OPS suggests. So you go straight ahead and base your decisions off one stat and be blind to everything else. OPS is one of many good stats, but like every other one you need to look past just 1 stat. 2006 RS 1. New York Yankees - 930 runs 2. Cleveland Indians - 870 runs 3. Chicago White Sox - 868 runs 4. Philadelphia Phillies - 865 runs 5. Atlanta Braves - 849 runs 6. Texas Rangers - 835 runs 7. New York Mets - 834 runs 8. Detroit Tigers - 822 runs 9t. Boston Red Sox - 820 runs 9t. Los Angeles Dodgers - 820 runs . . . 26. San Diego Padres - 731 runs 27. Milwaukee Brewers - 730 runs 28. Chicago Cubs - 716 runs 29. Pittsburgh Pirates - 691 runs 30. Tampa Bay Devil Rays - 689 runs 2006 OPS 1. New York Yankees - .824 2. Toronto Blue Jays - .811 3t. Cleveland Indians - .806 3t. Chicago White Sox - .806 5. Philadelphia Phillies - .794 6. Atlanta Braves - .792 7. Boston Red Sox - .786 8. Texas Rangers - .784 9. Los Angeles Dodgers - .780 10. New York Mets - .779 . . . 26. San Francisco - .746 27t. Houston Astros .741 27t. Chicago Cubs - .741 29. Tampa Bay Devil Rays - .734 30. Pittsburgh Pirates - .724 In that list, I see only one clear outlier, that being Toronto. They were 2nd in the majors in OPS, but 12th in runs scored. When a team's as bad as the White Sox were at stealing bases (actually, very slightly better, but absolutely terrible nonetheless) and they don't hit 240 homers, they won't score as many as their OPs would indicate because they are simply slow and depend solely upon power when it's evident there isn't quite enough power in the lineup. Detroit's team OPS was .778, putting them at 11th; Milwaukee's was .747, putting them at 25th; San Diego's was .748, putting them at 24th. If you want me to do other years, I can; it just seems completely clear that where the team OPS is, the teams run scored is.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 09:01 PM) It's pretty clear at this point that the Royals are a better team than the Sox. I fully expect the Sox to finish behind KC. Worse than that, KC has a bunch of good young players. Given that the Sox have the worst farm system in baseball, I think the Sox may finish behind the Royals for several years to come. Back in 2005, The Sporting News knew what it was doing when it named Shapiro as the Executive of the Year instead of Williams. That's an assumption on your part and a poor one at that. The fact that anyone assumes or believes that is absolutely ridiculous. The Sox have a pretty good amount of pitching in the minors - albeit, all of it is below AAA - but they have talented arms in the minors. Add to it 2 young OFers in AAA that will very likely be starters at some point within the next 5 years in the majors, as well as Carter, Getz, Hernandez/Lucy, Cunningham, and Fields (even if he is in the majors right now) and I don't think there's any way you can argue that the minor league system is the worst in baseball. I've heard some people mention Washington as the worst. That would be a team that is in a terrible situation, though their major league roster is relatively young.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 11:13 PM) the most idiotic thing the sox could do is make a trade right now. The value of Dye, Buehrle and anyone else will only go up the closer we get to July 31. I really agree; the Dye and Buehrle part is moot/arguable, but with this team 10 games back in the division, a trade to try and improve the team to the point where it can compete is going to cost atleast one top 5 prospect, and perhaps a top 10 along with that one, and even then it's going to be tough to get to 90 wins, let alone the 96 or so it's going to take to win the division, and god knows how many wins it will take to win the Wild Card. At this point, it's not worth the risk. Simply wait it out. If come June 30th or so and the Sox haven't really improved, start fielding offers for the soon to be FAs and other tradeable assets. There's no point really in trading anything at all at this point in the season. With how far the Sox are back, either it simply will come together or it won't, and from that point you assess the situation and determine the right course for the remainder of the season. (and if that course includes the Sox improving and then trading anything that resembles a shrapnel of potential starter ability in the majors, I will freak the f*** out)

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 11:45 AM) Eh thats your personal opinion, Im not saying id neccesarily want that lineup going into next season but I think that lineup is full of guys who will get on base for you and get key hits. I love OPS but dont put too much stock into it, there is more to baseball that one stat. RS 1. Detroit 2. Cleveland 3. New York 4. Boston 5. Florida 6. Philadelphia 7. Anaheim 8. Texas 9. Seattle 10. Atlanta . . . 26. Houston 27. Kansas City 28. Washington 29. St. Louis 30. White Sox OPS 1. Detroit 2. Cleveland 3. Boston 4. New York 5. Philadelphia 6. Florida 7. New York 8. Seattle 9. Milwaukee 10. Anaheim . . . 26. Kansas City 27. St. Louis 28. Pittsburgh 29. Washington 30. White Sox it appears as though OPS and Runs Scored have almost a direct correlation. So really, I'll continue to blindly put faith in OPS as an indicator of offensive success.