witesoxfan

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 01:23 AM) Looks like I'll be on the market for a new name soon. Any ideas are welcome. I think I would like to keep the ">" though. Gavin > all

QUOTE(spiderman @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 10:33 PM) I think Gavin Floyd should have some success in the majors before we consider his spot in the rotation secure. First of all, he has had some success. You didn't say how much, just some. Secondly, he's pitching well in AAA, and the Sox and Royals have about equal chances at winning this division; once Buehrle or another starter gets traded, he's in the rotation for the rest of the year until the year ends or he gets injured. They're going to give him every chance in the world at becoming a good starter for the White Sox.

QUOTE(Omar Minaya @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 12:14 AM) Buerhle is probably the best pitcher that will be available for a trade this year. However, his talent and ability is off-set heavily by the fact that he is going to be a free agent this year. Therefore, when evaluating his trade value, you cannot go on his talent/ability alone in assessing what a fair return on him would be. I have no idea what Mark will command - there have been a multitude of ridiculous trades throughout the history of baseball. All I am saying is that the Mets will not be one of those teams getting bent over for Buerhle. Thinking you're going to get Fernando Martinez, Deolis Guerra, or a package of several the Mets' top prospects is simply getting your hopes up. The Mets are unlikely to give you Milledge, let alone anything above that. As you've said, then they won't get him, and they have to rely upon the surgically repaired shoulder of Pedro Martinez; he's an amazing pitcher, but I have my doubts as to whether he'll be much more than a #3-4 down the stretch. It just goes to show the comfort level the front office has if they are inquiring about a top of the line starter.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) I think the Sox take Danks if he's available regardless of where they pick. They won't want to pay slot money for a high draft pick, and I think they'll try to draft below slot. I think you're wrong, but if they do that, then everyone in the entire front office should be fired.

I really don't know if it makes sense to trade Dye. If you trade him, you are probably getting a B prospect; if you keep him and offer him arbitration, you either have him next year for $7 mill or two compensatory picks.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 02:27 AM) okay, okay you made your point... no reason to embarrass me What you are getting at is partially right; I was looking through the list, and basically all of the elite players in the league were top 10-15 picks. Bonds, Sheffield, Upton, Manny, ARod, Teixeira, Jeter, Mauer, and there are several more hitters too, and that's not even counting hitters. The problem is for every ARod and Mauer, you have Matt Bush, Bryan Bullington, and - later in his career - Darin Erstad (though he was a very good player for 3 of his first 4 full seasons). But plain and simple, the Sox have to start scouting and developing better. Position in the draft, while not not vital, is a big part of getting elite and non-elite talent.

You are comparing Mark Buehrle to the best pitcher of the 1990s.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 12:48 AM) Is that dog for real? It used to be; Sam died in November of 2005

I would honestly just clone Babe Ruth 25 times

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 05:27 PM) you only get a Joe Mauer or Mark Prior (before the Cubs ruined him) by sucking. when was the last time we had a player of that caliber? Probably Magglio Ordonez. By your logic, he, Vlad, Johan, Felix, and all Latin players should be discounted. You don't have to suck to have good scouting and development in Latin America. Aside from that, probably Frank Thomas, 6th overall in 89 or whatever it was. Morneau was a 3rd round pick, Howard a 5th rounder, Thome and Pujols were both 13th rounders, Hafner was selected in the 31st round. Free agency counts too, you know. And, quick rundown on the White Sox in that department... Darin Erstad, 1st overall; drafted by California John Danks, 9th overall; drafted by Texas Jon Garland, 10th overall; drafted by Chicago Paul Konerko, 13th overall; drafted by Los Angeles Josh Fields, 18th overall Matt Thornton, 22nd overall; drafted by Seattle David Aardsma, 22nd overall; drafted by San Francisco Mike MacDougal, 25th overall; drafted by Kansas City

QUOTE(southsida86 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 11:03 PM) If he could be had for someone like a Kris Honel or Wes Whisler then go for it. It certainly couldn't hurt. I just wouldn't give up anyone who has a chance to make it to the major leagues for him. Also, the Cubs would have to send some $$$ over with him. Honel and Whisler are non-factors in trades, and the only thing you are going to get for one of those two is a AAA reliever. It's going to cost someone with just a bit more upside; anyone from MacDougal to Haeger to Russell.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 08:46 PM) I completely agree with this. i think it would be great if he had a bench coach that managed in the Majors and knows the league. joey cora is his friend. I think Joey wants to manage one day and ozzie is trying to help him get there. just my opinion. Its not a bad thing but having a past manager might bring soem different perspective and keep ozzie managing at the same time. Many coached will get fired this year so there maybe some additional openings. I also think Razor Shines is terrible at 3b Coaching and should exit stage left at the end of the year or moved to first base. With a year like we are having its time for some new ideas and new blood both with coaches and players. Old as he may be, I wonder what Jack McKeon is doing now a days. I don't recall anything specific about how he managed against the Cubs in the NLCS in '03, but he's been around the block more than a few times, he's been apart of winning teams throughout his tenure as a manager, and, as I recall, was one of Ozzie's biggest influences.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 11:09 PM) Considering how awful our draft picks have been, I'd rather take the upper-echelon prospects. The problem of course is that you're not going to get that from Dye at this point. Buehrle's likely though.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 10:54 PM) Some people love Rowand. Get over it. Some people would like him back. Get over it. Aaron Rowand isn't going to solve the problems, which is what the poster was suggesting.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 01:55 AM) also, do you know why our farm system is so weak? Because we never got any top tier talents in the past 20 drafts or whatever. We always get the leftovers. But yeah, the scouting sucked as well, so we never got the top talents that slipped through the cracks. I call shenanigans. On the Twins and Tigers current rosters - teams that spent essentially the entirety of the past 10-15 years in the cellar - here are the first rounders Tigers Justin Verlander, 2nd overall Jason Grilli, 4th overall; drafted by San Francisco Andrew Miller, 6th overall Gary Sheffield, 6th overall; drafted by Milwaukee Macay McBride, 24th overall; drafted by Atlanta Jeremy Bonderman, 26th overall; drafted by Oakland Twins Joe Mauer, 1st overall Michael Cuddyer, 9th overall Torii Hunter, 20th overall Jason Tyner, 21st overall; drafted by New York Mets Boof Bonser, 21st overall; drafted by San Francisco Glen Perkins, 22nd overall Rondell White, 24th overall; drafted by Montreal The Twins have 4 first rounders that they drafted, while the Tigers have 2. And while the 2 the Tigers have that they've drafted are both top 10 picks, only two of the Twins picks are top 10, and the other two were drafted in the 20s. Good minor league systems come from good scouting and player development, period. I don't care if you're drafting 1st, 12th, or 29th, there are players available that will turn into very good players at any position you are drafting. You won't get the signed, sealed, and packaged pitcher that's almost assuredly going to be a stud, but they are everywhere. And even in those top picks, in the cases of Dewon Brazelton and Mark Prior, they may not pan out. Scout, pick, develop, and repeat.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 08:13 AM) Positivity is hard to come by when Sox are closing in on having the worst record in MLB and the minors are bereft of talent. I thought the Toby Hall signing was a good idea. So there's a positive statement. That's a start. I just don't think KW could have anticipated the Sox being this terrible; there's talent on the roster, but talent can only get you so far, especially if 2/3 of the bullpen is AAA talent. This team got really old, really fast.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 11:23 AM) Ozzie Guillen needs a bench coach that can help him manage the game and know the opponent. Baines seemed to be good at this and even Raines but there have been more than one time where simple moves were flat wrong. I agree with this thought process a ton. Jerry Manuel seemed to be a decent manager when it came to in game moves, albeit he micromanaged a ton, but I wonder how much of that was him and how much of it was Joe Nossek. Joey Cora is on the bench right now because he wants to become a manager some day, but a manager in training is really no true help to the team itself. It's one thing to manage with your gut, but when your gut is sometimes illogical - as Ozzie's has been at times, though I can't fault him for this season - it's an entirely different story. I really think a wise body with decades of experience would really help both Ozzie and the players out.

Justin Morneau coughed up blood tonight.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 08:16 PM) Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir. A top prospect for an average starter who made like 3 starts before getting hurt and released. Minaya could get desperate if Atlanta stays in the hunt for Mark. Or 35 starts but who's counting anyways And if Minaya is getting desperate for a starter, it will be Garland or Vazquez going instead of Buehrle, and he's suggested that quite a few times. He's looking for a pitcher who is under contract through atleast 2008, which could get interesting should KW think about blowing the team up entirely; he can get quite a bit for Buehrle, and he'd get even more for Garland or Vazquez. Considering the boner Minaya has for Vazquez - as one may recall, the Mets were the likely destination of Vazquez before KW seemingly stepped up and offered Chris Young for him - I think it's very possible the Sox could steal a couple very solid prospects away from Omar for him. I love Javy to death and am his biggest supporter on this board, but if him getting traded meant getting 2 good prospects from the Mets for him, sign me up immediately. Of course, KW would have to take off his Javy blinders for something like that to happen.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 11:22 PM) And funnier still when they decline to offer Mark arbitration because they don't want to pay to sign those picks (or they draft below slot to avoid paying alot). Everyone is so excited to get picks...these would not be high draft picks. They would be 4 years away from even making the big leagues, let alone actually making an impact. And they would be drafted by the Sox insanely brilliant scouting system, so what are the chances they would even make it to the bigs? If the Sox have a chance to pick up a B grade AAA or AA prospect for Buehrle, like a pitcher at the level of Gio Gonzalez, they should make that deal. If they don't, they walk away with essentially nothing. When was the last time you had something positive to say about the White Sox front office? If the Sox are going to go into a full fledged rebuilding mode, what would it really matter whether the players acquired - via draft or trade - were a year away or 4 years away? It's not like 2-3 players are really going to make the White Sox a winner or loser. And even if they DON'T go into a full fledged rebuilding mode, do you think 2-3 players acquired for Mark Buehrle are going to make or break the Sox chances of making the postseason next year, or even the year after? A rebuilding period is exactly that, and it takes time for a franchise to build up that talent and turn themselves from a bad team to a good team. Walking away with one good, but not great, prospect for a pitcher that can take a rotation from mediocre to good or good to great is a failure; I'd rather take my chances on 2 players selected in the draft then one good prospect who either will not have the ceiling of an ace (like a Lance Broadway or Jack Egbert), or will be completely boom or bust (like a Gio Gonzalez or Gavin Floyd). I want a pitcher like John Danks, who is almost assured MLB success with the potential to become a top of the rotation starter. And along with that ONE starting pitcher, I'll want 1-2 other smaller pieces. Or if not a starting pitcher, a starting OFer or MIF who will almost assuredly have some success with the potential to become a good top or middle of the order hitter. Basically, I'm saying I want something like Milledge/Pelfrey/Humber/Gomez, Anderson Hernandez/Gotay, and Clint Nageotte for Mark Buehrle; that's a stud who can step into the rotation or outfield for me right away, a 2Bman who can play for a few years until something better comes or until said player turns into some acceptable at 2B, and then a project reliever. Given, that's an example of the type of package I would be looking for, but if I'm not getting a package similar to that, I'm not dealing him, and said teams can look back and either regret or commend themselves on not making the deal. Finally, in a draft with like 1500 selections, 5 picks in the top 60 (the Sox and the four compensatory picks) are very high picks. You're picking from like the best 6% of the amateur players in the nation, which is to say that the talent level is elite. With that, you can make a safe pick or two, but then you can go out on a limb and take a Gio Gonzalez or a Ryan Sweeney who can become very good prospects who looked unsignable at the time, or you can draft a Wes Whisler who has the talent to be both a great OFer and pitcher and see if you can turn him into something. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't; that's the crapshoot nature of the draft itself.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 12:03 AM) Oh, I don't know...perhaps for trading away Chris B. Young? I wish we had a CF like that. Not one that goes down like Humpty Dumpty tumbling off the wall the first day he's back from his stint on the DL. Ask if firing KW would be racist, and then bring up one bad move he's made in the past 3 years. Brilliant.

Danks will be a guy the Sox go hard after, and I would almost guarantee it. The franchise is like in love with the Danks family.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 02:24 PM) If we do trade Buerhle, I have a feeling alot of people are gonna be disappointed with what we get in return. You're not gonna get the top prospects from teams, for a player that isn't under contract for next year. I guess we will see what happens. Then don't trade him. The Sox are almost guaranteed to get 2 draft picks for Buehrle, and those two picks can go towards replenishing the system. You get atleast 1 top prospect along with two other solid players or 2 top prospects, otherwise negotiations have no chance of going anywhere.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 11:00 AM) Yeah. It's laughable that people want Pelfrey, Gomez , and Milledge for Buehrle when the truth is that that he won't be able to bring back even one of those players. No one will trade an A prospect for a 3 month rent-a-pitcher (one that lacks dominating stuff to boot -- Minaya has said that Milledge would get traded only for a power arm under control through 2008). K, don't trade him then. It's that simple. You're going to get 4 picks within the top 50, and you hold the keys to some team's playoff drives, you have all the leverage. If they don't want to give up prospects, then they can just try and bank on their future.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 01:13 PM) I think Contreras would accept a trade to the Mets. I'm mean who wouldnt want to go to from a below average team to a team that has a very good shot at going to the World Series this year and maybe next year too. Contreras was torn apart by the New York media when he was a member of the Yankees, and for a guy who is easily offended and hurt, that's not an easy thing to deal with. That's why he wouldn't want to go from a below average team to a team that has a very good shot at going to the World Series this year.