witesoxfan

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 13, 2007 -> 10:41 PM) Hunter Pence or Dustin Pedoria would look pretty damn good wearing black and white.... oh well/ It just pisses me off and also saddens me that out scouting system is so freaking bad. it's both scouting and development they need to work on. Brian Anderson was a great first round choice because he had to the tools to be a very solid all-around CF (.280 20 20 .825) but because of poor coaching in the minor leagues, he'll never get near that. The Sox have developed like 2-3 hitters in this decade in Lee, Rowand, and Crede (and if you really, really want to stretch it, you can probably include Konerko and Ordonez too, though Konerko was more of a major league acquisition and both had very good years in 1999 anyways). That's 3 hitters, which is unbelievably terrible. The Sox have found talent and haven't produced stinkers like Dellaero, Liefer, Stumm, or Johnson in a while, but ya that needs to improve a bit too.

QUOTE(dasox24 @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 03:59 PM) I swear I've seen your username before, but I guess not since that was your first post. Anyway, great way to start off here. Sound like you know what you're talking about. Welcome to SoxTalk! You have heard his name; not sure if they name didn't transfer over, but I thought it used to be 29thAndPoplar

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 11:42 PM) That was really, really, really bad, yes, I agree. -- Oh, and I wasn't talking about Floyd as a mental midget exclusively. Yes, that is something that I think is valid when it comes to him -- the Phillie organization appears to, and the reporters there who used to cover him certainly think so, as does at least one Chicago beat writer (from a Philly article when we went to Philadelphia this year) -- but his stuff isn't as good as it once was, his control isn't exemplary in any sense, and he's become a AAAA player at best. And even with his terrible struggles, I don't know how anyone can declare that a 24 year old is a AAAA player at best. It's not worth debating, because we both know where it's going seeing as how it's already been there before.

QUOTE(LukeGofannon @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 07:29 PM) Dunn isn't the all-around player Dye is? Dunn has more SB and less CS than Dye. A 42 point edge in OBP, 33 point edge in SLG. The only way you could rationalize this is if you talk about defense but Dunn is still better as a "all-around" player. Dunn is bad but Dye's not exactly Mr. Gold Glove in RF either. In essence, I agree with exactly what you are saying.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 20, 2007 -> 03:31 PM) I also knew that all the Kings/Lakers series were fixed. I never had any real evidence or vindication, but it was always in the back of my mind. Remember when Doug Christie's chin fouled Kobe's elbow? Yeah. All those years, the Kings were the best team in the NBA. I felt so bad for Webber. After the Bulls, that was my favorite team. It was Bibby, and I think it was his nose; Kobe just went gangbusters into him trying to get the ball on an inbound, elbowed him in the face, and then got a foul called on Bibby. That was one of the most disappointing times I recall ever watching the NBA. It actually turned me off the game for a little bit just because of how blatant it was.

QUOTE(Yossarian @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 01:09 PM) Call it a bulls*** internet rumor if you like, but someone I know and trust and is far more successful than I am told me that the Pirates were so strapped for cash, they were facing a payroll they couldn't meet. It was then that they traded Aramis Ramirez to the Cubs for next to nothing. and that didn't stop them from getting Oliver Perez and Jason Bay that year for Brian Giles who made more than Ramirez, Lofton, and Simon combined. just saying; different circumstances I am sure, seeing as how Ramirez and Lofton would not have passed through waivers and Giles would, but I find it a bit funny.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2007 -> 01:14 PM) Willie Harris hit .380 in Charlotte with 6 homers in 100 ABs at approximately the same age Richar is right now. He came up to the White Sox later that season and hit a robust .204 in 137 ABs. Getting a few hits in Charlotte doesn't necessarily make someone a can't miss prospect. Well yeah, I meant savior more in a sarcastic tone than anything else. That being said, I'd still like to see Richar up and what he can do; Iguchi has no future with this team.

JOSEEEEEEEEEE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO And the sooner Iguchi leaves, the sooner savior Richar can come up. Perhaps the Sox can get an actual player with a future in the majors instead of just a scrap of talent.

QUOTE(knightni @ Jul 20, 2007 -> 03:07 AM) I just felt like bumping this quote. It's not fair because Buehrle got ass-rammed. He just wants to stay in Chicago that badly, apparently. And Kenny Williams gave Ray Durham away to the Athletics during the summer of 2002, thus he must be retarded too.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 20, 2007 -> 07:26 PM) Correct, he had a great game that day and was having a GIGANTIC year at triple a. BTW, in his first game with the big club the other day, he scored the winning run in the 10th inning for the Tigers at Minnesota. The legend grows. The legend of Timo is done growing; all it does now is live. And the Tigers are essentially guaranteed to win the World Series this year simply because he donned the uniform and hat.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jul 20, 2007 -> 03:00 PM) Seriously Marquis is one of the rare pitchers in the bigs right now that IMO, I can hit off of. It boggles me to see how this guy is having this much success this season. Call it a hunch, but if major league hitters aren't hitting him, I would imagine it'd be pure luck if you hit him.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 20, 2007 -> 12:15 AM) Chris who? Paulie (like Sweeney) rocks my socks. And it is so good to stick it to those red cubs every once in a while. Hopefully we can sweep them. Chris Young, he plays centerfield for the Arizona Diamondbacks.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 20, 2007 -> 01:29 PM) So, let me see if I get this straight. Crede -- you want to non-tender him and let him go for nothing. Dye -- you want to non-tender him and let him go for nothing. Contreras -- you want to deal him just to get rid of him, i.e., get nothing in return. Garland -- trade him for something. I presume, as well, that Iguchi walks for nothing, and Uribe's $5 million option is not exercised. Is that about right? How is that "rebuilding, dude"?? Chuck half the team for nothing and hope a Jon Garland trade solves all that ails the Sox? You have misinterpreted almost everything I've said. Crede - yes; if you offer him a contract, he's getting $4 mill guaranteed. You then have to find a place for him to play so he can build up some trade value, and he then has to perform up to his abilities, which were never outstanding to begin with, all the while stunting the development of Josh Fields at 3B; if you are counting on him to be the LFer, then that's fine. I don't think the Sox are, otherwise he would have played a lot more left field in the past year or so than he has. And by giving that $4 mill to Joe, all you are doing is hoping and praying he can regain his trade value so you can get a piece for him from one of 14 teams with a worse 3Bman. That, sir, is what they call a terrible investment; you have a limited ceiling and a floor that can hit rock bottom. Crede is almost assuredly gone for nothing, and I'd be very surprised if you ever see him in a White Sox uniform again. Dye - no; I said I want to trade him because I really do not think the Sox will offer him arbitration if they do not want him back next year. If they don't offer him arbitration, they get nothing. I don't care if the Sox trade Dye or keep him and tender him a contract and then get 2 compensatory picks; I just understand that there's risks to both sides of the deal. Follow? Contreras - no; I am trading him for the first offer that brings me talent. Any talent is better than nothing I imagine. Garland - yes, by and large; you'll get an oustanding package for one of the games best 40 pitchers with all things considered. Iguchi I have said numerous times in this thread (if you would read) that if you do not trade him, you will get nothing because you cannot offer him arbitration due to some wacky international free agent rules; thus, trade him for the first thing that wears a baseball uniform, is under the age of 26, and can throw the ball 93 MPH (even if it's Eduardo Sierra deux). Uribe you probably won't get anything for. He's not a guy a team is going to trade for thinking he will start, and even aside from that he has no value whatsoever. That being said, I think the options for shortstop next year are Uribe, Gonzalez, and Eckstein; pick your poison. So to answer your question, no it wasn't even close to right. I see the Sox getting talent for 4 of those players mentioned, the most for Garland, Crede gone because there's almost no chance he'll be the player he was before, and you pick up Uribe's option because all other options suck just as hard and you can hope that Juan actually hits .240 with a .750 OPS so you can actually get something in value for him via trade. Right now, I'd say the Sox need to find a young outfielder, shortstop, and catcher for the offense, and then probably 2-3 more good bullpen arms along with another starter. You can likely get about 3 of those for Garland if you make the right deal (probably OF, SS/C, and pen arm for him) and then the rest are acquired by trading the others. It's not that hard to understand.

Gonzalez-Rowand-Sweeney Rowand will take $7-8 mill a year to come back to Chicago, Gonzalez is a piranha, and KW remembers the Sox are rebuilding. And anyone that talks about Owens hitting .320 for a month and using that as justification for him as a starter has to be absolutely kidding themselves. Seriously, if one f***ing month turns a player from piece of the trash heap to starting material then oddammit, let's trade Sweeney for Timo goddamn Perez again. Do you not recall the .339/.413/.500/.913 he put up in June of 2004? More seriously, it's ONE GODDAMN MONTH; Owens is and never will be anything more than a 4th outfielder for a good team or fringe starter for a bad team; if you want him to start, I really thank God KW is the GM amd Ozzie is the manager.

QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 20, 2007 -> 01:15 AM) Lou Piniella knew how important the intracity series were. Guillen got outmanaged. I'm embarrased for him. Yeah, don't consider the fact that the Sox were faced with twice the talent that they put on the field. Piniella and Guillen can understand all they absolutely can about baseball; Piniella's a better manager, but is it mere coincidence that the Sox won the season series against Tampa in 2005 4-2? Quite frankly, who cares; there's a reason Guillen won a World Series in 2005 and Piniella didnt, and its the talent on the field, and any argument against that is assinine. The Cubs, this year, have twice the talent the Sox do. Guillen had nothing to do with that 1-5, but if you feel that he did, you go ahead and tell yourself that and make yourself sleep better at night. He didn't and you know it, but if it makes you feel good about yourself, blame it on Guillen; point blank, the reason the Sox sucked against the Cubs and the reason they suck this year is on KW's shoulders; you put this season or any series this season in particular on Guillen, and you'll look like an idiot.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jul 13, 2007 -> 09:32 PM) <!--quoteo(post=1471825:date=Jul 13, 2007 -> 08:59 PM:name=greasywheels121)-->QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jul 13, 2007 -> 08:59 PM) <!--quotec-->All you need is his money (which is limitless), and there's no cap in baseball. Cuban doesn't spend money in the right places in basketball, probably wouldn't in baseball. Get some defenders in Dallas. First of all, he's the owner, not the GM nor the coach nor part of the coaching staff. Secondly, they didn't make the NBA Finals a year ago, did they?

QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 20, 2007 -> 12:08 AM) The Cubs are playing great and are only 3.5 games back of the Brewers. Too bad Ozzie Guillen led his team to a 1-5 record against the Cubs this year. Thanks Guillen. Dude, no. WTF did Guillen have to do with the garbage roster on the field? Now, for the more important topic at hand, Bonds is a god. Someone needs to change that 750 to 753.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 18, 2007 -> 03:08 PM) A split would be awful if it means KW thinks we can still compete. Either sweep the series or get swept. With Contreras and Danks going, it's going to be hard to win more than 2 games that series. this^ Really, anything is awful if KW thinks we can still compete. This team should have been torn apart quite a while ago because this is merely the team creeping back to .500, like they've done in every year for about the past decade (with the exceptions of 2000, 2003, and 2005). 47-21, or a .691 winning percentage, to get to 90 wins and an outstanding 3rd place finish. Whoopee

Hu and Ethier for Dye and Contreras. Never going to happen, but that would be amazing.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jul 18, 2007 -> 02:40 PM) Not that I disagree, but there are not a lot of options and I can not stomach another year of watching Uribe try to "hit". While you'd much prefer to see Jack Wilson hit .250 with absolutely no power to speak of? Jack Wilson is terrible, plain and simple. I'd rather go with Andy Gonzalez at SS.

QUOTE(MSHAWKS @ Jul 14, 2007 -> 09:44 AM) <!--quoteo(post=1471625:date=Jul 13, 2007 -> 10:50 AM:name=JUSTgottaBELIEVE)-->QUOTE(JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Jul 13, 2007 -> 10:50 AM) <!--quotec-->i would have to disagree with that majority of pro baseball players would have a resume like his. the fact that he was all-state in track in the 100m and 300m hurdles eliminates ~90% of the guys playing in the bigs. i couldn't name one guy on the sox right now outside of jerry owens and pods that could have done that in high school. plus, there arent many baseball players that i know of that are stud hockey players too. baseball and football or baseball and basketball yes, but hockey adds a whole new dimension than those sports - skating. add that to the fact that he was named the state's player of the year (given it is north dakota) is quite a feat in itself. holding the career hits record at university of nebraska is a huge accomplishment considering he only played 3 years of college ball and considering the tradition of the huskers baseball program. Looking at the state meet times in North Dakota, it isn't that hard to make all-state in the 100 Meter or 300 IM. Some of the all-state guys in ND wouldn't even qualify for state in Illinois. Simply math. We have like the 2nd least populated state in the entire nation, thus, you'll see a lack of athletes. That, and there really isn't much in terms of racial discrepancy.

Black kids don't play baseball because they don't have role models in the game. You're making a hell of a good argument for your case Gary.

Belle is highly intelligent to say the least. National Honors Society member, president of the local FBLA, graduated 6th in his high school class, and was offered an athletic contract to go play at Notre Dame. He's no slouch. I also seem to recall he graduated with a degree in economics. If he was smart with his money - and I imagine he was - he's probably friggin loooooooaded.

QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Jul 13, 2007 -> 10:55 AM) A side issue here is now that borass has thrown that out there, if Arod opts out, and no team offers him a $30 million + deal, he will start screaming about collusion. So, you will get at least one dumbass owner who will be willing to pay that. Not worth it. If he starts screaming collusion if ARod gets $25 mill a year instead of $30 mill a year, I think the case will get thrown out rather quickly.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 13, 2007 -> 10:48 AM) Crede went from playoff MVP, and one of the best 3Bs in baseball, to dog scrap in your eyes?????? I think you completely destroy your credibility with that claim. I'm not sure I'd sign Crede long term any more now that his back has actually sidelined him for half a season, and I might not accede to Boras's demands, but I wouldn't hesitate to tender the guy unless a doctor told me his career is over. He'd be one of the best bargains on the team. His superior fielding alone is probably worth a few games a year. (It certainly made the difference in the clinching game of the World Series.) Plus, since we don't have a left fielder, I have no problem moving Fields there for a year or until Crede is traded. Quite the contrary, you're destroying YOUR credibility if you've ever believed Crede to be anything near one of the best 3Bman in the league. He had an amazing run of 12 games in the playoffs, and he has always been a pretty clutch player, but clutch doesn't change a career .259 average, .751 OPS, 92 OPS+, and a season high OPS of .829. If you are comparing Crede to the best 3Bman in the game, you are comparing him to Chipper, Wright, ARod, Aramis, Cabrera, and Rolen; how can you do that when he's not better than Lowell, Zimmerman, Atkins, Beltre, Glaus, Braun, or Mora? Joe Crede never has and never will be one of the best 3Bman in the game. To think so is showing nothing but your ability to be a homer and let your emotions cloud the actual value and talent level of a player. I love Joe Crede too for what he did in 2005, but it doesn't the fact that he's a mediocre 3Bman. Dye at his worst? You are talking 1997, 1998, 2003, and 2007 here, right? That's about a .625ish OPS in 1000 PAs. So, to answer your question, every outfielder in the White Sox organization will put up better numbers than that, all things considered of course, because they will very likely atleast match the .625 and they will be making a little more than $6.5 mill less than Dye will be. It's entirely possible that the White Sox have plans for the 2008 outfield right now and that they do not include Jermaine Dye; it's also possible beyond even that they do not want to include Jermaine Dye into next year's plans. By offering Dye arbitration, the Sox are opening the door to the possibility that he may accept arbitration, thus leaving the Sox with a log jam. I don't think it's likely, I'm merely running through all the possibilities. However, history has shown that if the White Sox do not want a certain player back, they will not offer them arbitration. There was virtually no excuse to let Riske go for free; he was a class A free agent, and he was coming off of a year where he made something like $2.3 mill. The Sox declined to offer it because KW had "big plans" for the pen (whoops). If they weren't willing to spend $2.3 mill on a solid innings eating reliever, why would they spend $7 mill on an outfielder who's an injury risk, is going to be 34, and is not part of the rebuilding plans? You absolutely can deal Contreras just to get rid of him. Because he pitched well in the playoffs 2 years ago you can't? That's absolutely ludicrous. You are talking about trading players and then getting attached to them, letting your emotions dictate what you want to see. Fact of the matter is the first offer that brings the Sox any type of talent that could help the White Sox long term for Contreras (other than like a bullpen arm; I'm talking a Broadway or Anderson type prospect) should net him and he should leave. That's an absolute albatross of a contract, he's older than piss, and he's not going to get better. He's a wonderful human being and I'll forever be thankful for 2005, but in 2007, who really cares? You'll never be able to relive 2005 over again because it has happened and is gone. Then how are you going to allocate the rest of the payroll? Assuming Garland signs the exact same extension Buehrle does, word for word, salary for salary, the Sox have $65.5 million tied up between 6 players. That leaves, at the very most, $35 million for the other 19 spots on the roster, and it's very possible that's around $25 million as well. That leaves you about 2 medium sized signings, one for a reliever, and one for Aaron Rowand. Do you think a rotation of Buehrle-Garland-Vazquez-Danks-Floyd with essentially the same exact bullpen and an offense that replaces Jermaine Dye's bat with Aaron Rowand's can compete? Quite frankly, if it's not this year, why would next year be any different? Garland is the one starter who KW will trade that will bring back a load of talent in return. It's almost a formality at this point, because I don't think KW has any intentions of resigning him, and I would imagine Garland's intentions lead him towards getting as close to a 9 figure contract as possible. That's why it's called rebuilding, dude. And only Jesus Christ has been able to turn water into wine. The Sox won't compete for a while because they simply do not have the talent within the organization to do so.