witesoxfan

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Aug 3, 2007 -> 02:07 AM) Ya and collected 3 more hits. half man, half pimp, half machine

I Blake

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 01:54 PM) The point would be at this point he is more of a known commodity and has displayed the ability to close out games something that Bell hasnt done yet. Bobby is proven, Heath is not. careers Bobby Jenks - 155.1 IP, 3.48 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 10 K/9, 3 K/BB Heath Bell - 168.1 IP, 4.06 ERA, 1.31 WHIP, 9 K/9, 4 K/BB This season, they are putting up almost idential lines across the board except that Bell has given up a few fewer runs. So what's the difference? Why should San Diego pay the price that the White Sox want for Bobby Jenks when Heath Bell will prove perfectly effective? From the packages everyone's looking at, is the upgrade from Heath Bell to Bobby Jenks worth Matt Antonelli, Chase Headley, and Nick Hundley? The answer to that question is a quick and emphatic no.

probly both

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 2, 2007 -> 04:51 AM) How long did it take you to come up with that one? Like 5-6 minutes

QUOTE(iamshack @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 11:44 PM) The thing is, no, we didn't have a chance to infuse this team with young talent. We had a chance to deal our only corner OF with power for crap, and our second or third best pitcher for probably two solid prospects. I would rather gamble on us patching some things up and making a run with quality pitching next year, OR dealing Garland this offseason for an attractive package, than selling him off for crap right now, plugging some kid in at ss and praying that this pitching prospect doesn't get injured or suck and actually makes a difference in 2 years. The reality of the situation is we chose the worst time to be sellers or to try and rebuild. The best way to realize the value we have now is to roll with our pitching and try to patch our other problems until the price of quality prospects retreats to reasonable levels again. We just don't have the resources of Boston, or the two New York teams to be making errors on contracts or drafting whomever we want and saying the hell with signability. What potential offers did you hear of for Garland? Just curious of course, because "2 solid prospects" really doesn't sound like what would have actually been on the market. The Braves traded their 3 best prospects for a 1Bman they KNOW won't resign with them after next season, unless he does it out of his own heart. That's not likely. If you think the Sox could have only gotten 2 solid prospects out of Garland, then I believe you are sorely mistaken; if you heard the Sox only could have gotten only 2 solid prospects, then I truly question why a GM would hinder his club's chances at getting a middle of the rotation starter for more than that. As for Dye, Wily Mo Pena is far from crap; I'm happy KW didn't make a deal for Pena and Hansen, because without Masterson or Delcarmen, the trade was never going to get done, and quite frankly, Hansen is garbage on the trading front right now. The only way Hansen would get traded for something of value would be solely due to reputation and name. Regardless, suggesting Pena is crap is wrong. I'm just more surprised more teams didn't show interest at that price. I'm also curious as to why you think a team will pay more for Garland in the offseason than they will now. There is a more limited selection to deal with at the deadline than in the offseason, that much I understand; but the teams you might imagine would be interested are also those that were interested in him at the deadline, and you'd think those teams would pay more for a guy who gives them a shot at winning 2 World Series instead of just 1.

QUOTE(lord chas @ Aug 2, 2007 -> 12:09 AM) terrible we need to see if he is capable of starting or not He is capable of starting. He'll put up a career ERA of 5.00 and throw over 1000 innings. Gavin Floyd has a chance to be better than that and a likelyhood of being worse. During a season like this, it's time to take a chance. Haeger has absolutely no upside in the major leagues at all, and if he's pissed, he needs to learn to throw how to throw 91-94 with a good breaking ball and offspeed pitch in a hurry, because depending on a knuckleball is like depending on cheesy pickup line to pickup a girl - you know it'll be there, but you don't know if it will work.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 09:01 PM) Uh, so how much do we have to see before we've seen what he's made of? Personally, I give him three more outings like the ones he's had -- excluding the 1-2-3 inning in relief -- before I let Haeger get some work in. His numbers over the last 90-some innings tell me just about everything I need to know, especially in conjunction with his work here so far. It's a matter of upside. Haeger's upside is that of a rubber arm'd 5th starter. Floyd has the upside of 2-4.

QUOTE(Colorado Sox Fan @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 11:00 AM) No. This isn't the NFL where a top draft choice can turn around a franchise. I want to see the team finish strong. A top draft choice doesn't turn around a franchise in the NFL either.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 01:35 PM) No good GM will give him eight years, but his agent isn't Boras, and so I don't think it'll take THAT much. Who knows. nor will a sane owner agree to that type of investment. Seeing as how a couple pitchers have gotten 7 years before, and a few hitters have gotten 8-10 years, it's completely realistic that he'll go for more than 8/$200.

So after all that, I figure I may as well man up and say to Dick Allen that I was wrong about the whole arbitration thing. I had literally always been under the impression that a team just offered a contract and the player accepted or moved on. With a little bit of research, I found that to be untrue. Still, you offer Dye $8 mill in arbitration, and he is almost guaranteed to be a member of the Sox at that price, or he'll be gone. No extension needs to be done, because if you get him back, wonderful because then you actually have a major league piece in the outfield next year going into the season, and if not, you get two compensatory picks. And quite frankly, s***ty defense or not, I'll take Dye at $8 mill for 1 season over Rowand at $10 mill over 5 seasons any day of the week. Nothing against Rowand - he's a very good player in his own right - but there are so many better ways to spend money than that. Atleast with Dye, you know you can trade him at any point between his signing and the trade deadline to get another trade worked out, and that would be if he signed.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 04:34 PM) well, players that are playing for the sox for a discount. Konerko, Javy, buehrle, Garland.....who else? Only Konerko and Buehrle gave the Sox a discount. Javy signed for market value on a shorter term basis - perhaps you can consider that a hometown discount, but I take discount as less money and not fewer years - and Garland signed his contract with 4.5 years of service time. The contract he signed took out his first year of free agency. You'll be very hard-pressed to find guys who signed contracts after 4.5 years of service time that had bigger contracts and money attached than Garland, who is basically a good starting pitcher with weak peripherals. That's also part of the reason I really doubt you'd see Garland give the Sox a hometown discount following next season. I think he is going to want a market value contract, and that could be 5/$65-75, or, seeing as how he's never (don't quote me) been on the DL, 6 years at the same yearly price. That's an absolute f***ton of money. Perhaps he wasn't in high demand -though I highly doubt that - and if a year and a half of Teix can get Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Jones, and Feliz, what could Garland have gotten? Surely a very good package, even if Thornton had to have been included. Then again, there really wasn't a starting pitcher dealt, so perhaps not. I know the fans really only respond to winning, but the Sox really aren't going to win much the rest of the way anyways; if the Sox had been able to get a huge package like that, they would have taken a huge and very good first step towards rebuilding the franchise. As is, we may be stuck with a similar product next year.

Honestly - and I understand what you guys are going through, seeing as how the only Cubs fans I know are pretty much idiots - I really stopped caring about the Cubs when the Sox won it. They can do whatever the hell they want to, because the Sox got there first and that's all that really matters to me. It would be really cool to see them reach the century mark though.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 03:03 PM) When Utly returns, Gooch will likely slide over and play some third for the phillies. How many bounces will it take to get to 1B? 4? Or will he just f***ing rainbow it over there?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 10:24 PM) I'm probably one of the very few who think Contreras can bounce back from this. But I'd give him a few starts off. I still think this whole smuggling thing is weighing on him. But as the post above says, Gavin Floyd and Charlie Haeger will hardly make you forget Jose Contreras. atleast they have some type of future in professional baseball though

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 02:16 PM) I'm hearing that we got a catching prospect named Roach. Supposedly, he gets along real well with our Phillies acquisition....Doobie. sign Jung Bong and we are set

according to Stark on ESPN. Said just a minor leaguer coming back in return

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 01:53 PM) I am not misinterpreting the rules. If the White Sox offer arbitration and he accepts it works like any other arbitration. He certainly can win in arbitration. Everything I've ever understood is that the Sox offer a contract, he takes it or leaves it.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 01:46 PM) I know he is Linebrinks replacement, I am not sure if they envision him as the closer or their long term set up man. Bobby has experience closing something Bell doesnt have. And as of 2 years ago, Bobby didn't have experience closing either so I don't see your point.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 12:23 PM) That's not how it works. They would have to offer arbitration first. If the Sox then submit a $6 million figure in arbitration and Dye asks for $15 million, the arbitrator will figure if Dye is worth more or less than the $10.5 million middle mark of the 2 offers. If he thinks Dye's fair market value is $10,500,000.01 or higher, he would win. He will get $10-12 million easily if he accepted arbitration. You would just hope he signs with someone before you have to determine whether to offer it or not, or be prepared to pay. You are misinterpreting the rule. Dye can't win in arbitration; he is not in his arbitration years and currently under the team's control beyond this year. If the White Sox offer $6 million, he can accept that offer or find a team willing to give him a different contract. Meanwhile, if the White Sox offer Joe Crede arbitration following the season, a contract has to be worked out or they will go to the arbitrator because he has not reached his free agent years yet and is thus still under the team's control. Offering Dye arbitration is an absolute no brainer. If KW doesn't, he should be fired on the spot just because of how absolutely ridiculous it would be not to.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 11:12 PM) Dye for Pena and Hansen, do you take that deal or the 2 draft picks? without a good stroke of luck, you're getting Nick Masset II and a solid player.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 09:25 PM) Williams would be an absolute moron if he doesn't step into this discussion. Beane, according to that article, is asking for three premier prospects. Williams asks for two (including either Kershaw or Hu) and I'd be elated. Don't f*** this up, Kenny. Give me Kershaw, Hu, and Kemp/Ethier for Garland and Dye and I'll probably wet myself.

QUOTE(sox4lifeinPA @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 01:37 PM) I don't have anything to say about Paris Hilton, per se... but I do find it extremely homoerotic and very questionable that posters have oiled up pictures of wrestlers in their signatures. /PA's thought for the day. winnar

QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 29, 2007 -> 07:02 PM) Hopefully this rumor is true and opens the door for Tom Kelly to swoop in and save our Sox. Tom Kelly lost the division for the Twins in 2001 by sticking with LaTroy Hawkins as the Twins closer until September. By that time, the door had been shut by the Indians. He'll be 58 next year, and I truly doubt that he'll ever leave the Twins organization.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 01:01 PM) No, I think Bonderman is recovering from pitching more innings than he ever has. Ledezma has mental problems and was a reliever/spot starter. His mechanics and confidence are his problems, not fatigue. If the Sox could take a flyer on this kid, I cannot say i would be dissapointed. Like mentioned earlier, he could come in sometimes and flat out dominate, and other times he would just get kilt as Hawk likes to say Pretty sure it was a sarcastic statement - Bonderman's a more than capable 3rd starter, and he's got the stuff to be a really good 2. He's just been beat by the longball this year. His control has been better (although he has 2 more wild pitches already this year than he did the past 2 years combined) and his K rate is not substantially lower than it was last year. Luke was suggesting that Bonderman was also called up when the Tigers lost 119 games, lost 19 of those for them, and he turned out perfectly fine.