witesoxfan

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 05:55 PM) Officially eliminated and meaningless games don't end on the same day. What about his first half? There's a reason his career record is what it is. Its always everyone else's fault Javy doesn't get the win. Of course not. Which is why I brought up August and how Buehrle, Contreras, and Garcia all tanked while Vazquez was good (though Buehrle was better than I recalled). Teams have made up 7.5 game deficits in 2 months before, and the Sox very well could have if Contreras and Garcia hadn't put up a combined ERA of around 6.50 in August; that's essentially an automatic loss 2 times throughout the rotation. Of course, Garcia was 3-2 and Vazquez only 2-2, so the 2 and a half run difference in ERA is meaningless and that's why Garcia's a winning pitcher and Vazquez is a losing pitcher. :rolly And when Javy Vazquez goes 8 innings, gives up 1 run, and gets the loss, you're goddamn right it's everyone else's fault he didn't win. QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 05:55 PM) Nice of you to leave out his June and July last year when he was 3-3 with an ERA over 7.00 for the 2 months.(As long as we're cherry picking stats) Of course, I figured everyone knew he was terrible during that time, and I didn't feel the need to mention it. His ERA got to where it was somehow. The fact of the matter is, over almost the entire past year - 170+ innings or so - his ERA is right at 3.90; I find that more relevant than what he did in June and July of last year.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 05:14 PM) Contreras was part of a world championship team. In fact, a huge reason why the White Sox won. He was good enough to be the White Sox opening day pitcher this season, and had a stretch of 5 or 6 starts where his ERA was in the low 2s after the opening day debacle. If Vazquez did that, all his backers would point to that as to why he should be on the White Sox until he's Contreras' age. Acquiring Vazquez was KW getting another toy for winning it all. He wasn't needed. McCarthy could have been in the rotation last year and the White Sox would have easily finished in 3rd place. Vazquez was pretty bad until he turned it on when the games really didn't matter. For that he gets an extension, and can't be traded to west coast teams. He will be getting paid more than Contreras, who has shown in the past that he can assume the #1 slot on a championship team. Even Vazquez's most ardent admirers point out how publications rate him a better than average #4. Besides, there is one more year left of obligation to Vazquez than there is to Contreras. At least Contreras was signed after he helped the team win and was dominant. When Contreras was signed, did you comment in the thread? It would be interesting to see if you liked the signing. Of course you wouldn't get your facts straight. Vazquez's ERA from August 1st on last year was 3.86, while Garcia, Buehrle, and Contreras were all putting up garbage numbers. Beyond that, the Sox were officially eliminated somewhere around September 23rd and 24th; Vazquez's worst two starts from August 1st on came on September 26th and October 1st, after the Sox had been eliminated. Vazquez was one of the starters trying to bring the team back together, but he was given about 3 runs of support per game down the stretch; afterall, there's not much you can do when you're giving up 1 run over 8 innings and getting shutout by Kason Gabbard. And Contreras has shown in the past that he can be a #1 on a championship team; it's too bad for the White Sox that he'll never show that ability again. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 05:34 PM) Interestingly enough, B-Mac has made all of two starts since June 1st. Anybody know why? Outside of his first couple starts, I haven't really been checking in on McCarthy's status. He'd been on the DL with blister problems.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 05:07 PM) Vazquez means that the Sox were preparing to move on without either Jon or Mark, and possibly both. This ownership group almost never gives veteran starters four- or five-year deals. If the reported 4/56 number is accurate, it most likely caught KW and JR off guard. Earlier this year, most people would've assumed that Mark would accept nothing less than 5/70. Of course it did. But Contreras means exactly that too, and, unlike Vazquez, has shown no ability to be a consistently average or healthy starting pitcher.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 02:59 PM) I don't know how or why it would shut anyone up if the Sox finish in 3rd or 4th place. His being around and signed probably means either Buerhle or Garland, guys that are better than him will be gone, if not both, and means Chris Young isn't in CF. I'm pretty sure KW had a little better than a 4.30 ERA in mind when he traded for him. I haven't seen Buehrle take the field with a different uniform on yet, and if you listen to what he thinks, he's still going to be with the team come the weekend. I don't see it as an impossibility that Buehrle's gone. Keeping Garland is going to cost right around 6 or 7 years, and roughly anywhere from $15-17 million a year. Do you think the Sox have ever even considered the thought of giving Garland 5 years, let alone 6 or 7? Garland will be gone because the Sox are never going to give out a 6 or 7 year deal to a pitcher, and that's the right move. Vazquez has nothing to do with him. It's funny how you fail to mention Contreras and his old ass body making $10 mill a year. Vazquez means either Buehrle or Garland is gone, but Contreras has no effect on them. Is that it, or are you just throwing this on Vazquez because you don't like him?

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 02:58 PM) Royce Ring was dealing in AAA for San Diego this season and got called up a couple weeks ago, and has been very, very good... Was Robby Alomar worth it? Uh, yeah. The Sox were like the 2nd best team in the majors in the 2nd half of that year; Minnesota was the best, and the Sox were bad enough in the first half that 86 wins wasnt doing anything at all, but they were close as hell to winning that division. Considering all they gave up is a LOOGY or setup guy or whatever San Diego is going to use him as who hasn't become a big part of a bullpen until nearly 4 years later, yeah it was worth it.

I hit that s*** all day long. I believe Alex Trebek would accept "What is raw?"

anyone listen to Chris Cornell's latest album? any thoughts if you have? Personally, I like it, but I think Cornell could take a s*** in a CD case and I'd like it (though I think that's what they did with Revelations). Quite a bit heavier than Euphoria Morning, but most definitely much lighter and more refreshing than anything Audioslave did.

QUOTE(Bonderman38 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 06:02 PM) Granderson should be an all-star, hands down. He's also doing something like only like 5 or 6 players in quite a while have done before the all star break. The "Triple-Double" as they call it, I guess. Double Digit Homers, Doubles, and Triples. He's fast, but not blazing Carl Crawford type fast. Just shows what hustling all the way can do for you. seems to be mediocre acceleration but a very good top speed, because he is fast as hell.

Granderson is probably one of my favorite players to watch in all of baseball. And one of my favorites period, because he helps prove that slugging percentage is just as important as on base percentage for a leadoff hitter. And the inside the park home run is the most exciting in my mind; it just doesn't happen often.

I'm not sure Atlanta's really an option. Soriano has been filthy, Wickman's been as good as he has to be, and then a bunch of arms fill it out. Tyler Yates, Peter Moylan, and Oscar Villarreal have all been solid, and Buddy Carlyle and Chad Paronto are a lefty and an innings eater respectively. And to hit on a topic Cheat has covered before, why do they Sox continue to use high upside arms in long relief roles? Masset has a great arm, but he's a AAA or perhaps even AA pitcher right now rotting away in the bullpen; why not send him to the minors and let him work on a few things down there and call up anyone else? He's being wasted away getting into 3 games every 2 weeks.

VOTE PAT NESHEK

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 01:08 PM) Garland would bring in more than any starting pitcher. Jenks would probably bring in the most. I think Javy brings more. Garland's a free agent after 2008; Javy after 2010. If you trade for Garland, you have to hope you can resign him next offseason; with Vazquez, you have an outstanding 3rd starter and you never have to worry about resigning him. There are certain GMs who will pay more for Garland, and there are certain GMs who will pay more for Javy. Javy hasn't lost anything stuff wise, he's always going to be around a 4.20 ERA, and he's durable as all hell (essentially 6 straight years with 200+ innings; he threw 198 in 2004 with the Yanks, and that's the only hiccup). Garland's the better pitcher, no doubt, but if you want to resign him, he's going to cost more than it will cost to bring in Javy. If there's a team that's right in the middle of a very good period of baseball, they feel they're a #3 starter away from becoming a World Series contender, and they think their window for winning/development is about 3 years, Javy is perfect for them, and they'll be willing to pay quite a bit for it. And, as I've mentioned elsewhere on the board, the Mets are almost the absolute perfect team for Javy; Omar loves him as much as KW does, they have the prospects, and they want a power arm signed atleast beyond this year. I really would not be surprised if you can get Gomez/Milledge and Humber/Pelfrey.

Because the Sox could get an absolute ton for him, and he's an injury risk at the same time. Screws aren't meant to be in a person's body. There's no need to deal him; it's merely the fact that if the Sox get a f***ton of talent, they should jump all over it.

QUOTE(Shadows @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 02:26 AM) Bonds is not only the best player this game has ever seen, but also my favorite player I knew if there was one person this thread could count on, it was you. Honestly.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) Trading Jon would be in our best interest if we don't re-sign MB. If you trade MB, then you might as well trade JG, he would bring us back the best package in terms of prospects. There is no way we will sign JG if we don't hang onto MB. If we don't trade JG we will be going through the same s*** next year. MB should be the cornerstone that we build around, not JG. If you can lock up MB, then you sign JG to an extension. Get rid of JC for whatever you can, just to get free of his contract, that way you free up some money. Bring up Floyd and plug him in the rotation. That would be the best way to go about things. But our stupid f***ing GM is gonna try to build a rotation around the back end of the rotation we have now, JV and JC. Brilliant isn't he!!! I'll simply disagree.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 09:21 PM) What's so special about Tuesday? The trade deadline is July 31st. If you are living in an apartment, are you going to pay more for 2 months' rent or 3? Same type of concept, only on a bit more of an exponential level; the Sox can get a package of 3 players with like a top prospect and then two other smaller players, or, if lucky, 2 top prospects for him; if they wait until the deadline, they might get 1 top prospect for him, and it'd more likely be a low ceiling guy and 2 projects.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 08:55 PM) Absolutely. Which is why I continue to hold high expectations for any forthcoming trade involving a starting pitcher or positional player. This route of acquiring talent may be one of the few we could anticipate high upside talent. I'm not holding any excuses for Williams. If there's trouble convincing a team to unload blue chip prospects, then it's the responsibility of his scouts to identify players in lower levels. Oh, and there's also the bustling international talent pool to consider. Something we've obviously ignored for quite awhile. I'm thinking when July 2nd comes around -- the date for signing international players -- we're going to find out the future superstarts which the White Sox aren't going to get. If we're competing anytime before 2010 it'll be a minor miracle. He's obviously far away, but De Los Santos? And then when you say competing, it seriously depends upon how loosely you define the term "compete." I can easily see the Sox winning 83-88 games in 08 or 09, depending upon luck and the players acquired between now and next April, but 88 wins may still finish 10 games out of first and in 3rd place.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 05:42 PM) I still wish we had kept Ring. He's in the minors now cause he got rocked for early on this season. He is the only piece of the Roberto Alomar trade that has even sniffed success in the major leagues, and Alomar's acquisition nearly got the White Sox a division title. I really don't miss him that much. But wishing we had him in our system still while also still being able to have that good of a trade for Roberto Alomar, yeah then I wish we would have kept him.

QUOTE(lord chas @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:38 PM) good point. anytime i go to a sox game and stand on the concourse i always end up talking baseball with other sox fans. i think like me a lot of sox fans get so pissed at these cub "fans" that dont know the first thing about baseball. i remember a specific conversation last year where these group of cub fans didnt even know who ryan howard or papelbon were. are you kidding me? so then yesterday i get i bunch of texts because they pulled another game out of their ass. your team isnt that good and i least we admit our team has issues that need to be adressed They still have a shot - and probably a good shot too - at making the playoffs. The Sox are about as done as you can get on June 30th.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 12:47 PM) This effectively eliminates San Diego as a destination for Jermaine Dye. Oh well. Milton Bradley is more likely to get hurt twice before the trade deadline then stay healthy for the entire year. It appears to be the ever so famous "low risk, high reward" type of deal.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 12:58 AM) meh Barry Bonds says: "Barry Bonds does not like you."

Steroids or not, he's probably the best hitter many of us have ever seen. He deserves his own thread. And in this day and age, you can't prove who was and wasn't clean, so I figure a little respect to the man, even if he's a huge asshole. It takes a hell of a talent and a hell of a career to reach the record he's about to pass.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 02:04 AM) It amazes me that people still complain about that trade. At the exact moment in time when no one knew what was going on, it was bad value. Garcia was a guy coming off a year where he was a league average pitcher, but also had an amazing September where it looked like he had developed a pitch that would allow him to return to his above average form from 2000-01 and 04-05. Then, the details slowly started to roll out; he sucked in spring training, then went on the DL, and then sucked in the regular season. Finally, it came out that Philadelphia didn't give him a physical, and everything made sense. KW probably could have gotten guys like Pelfrey or Milledge or several of the names brought up on Soxtalk, and perhaps everyone's favorite Aaron Rowand along with Gio and Gavin, but then a physical would have occurred and the trade would have been nixed. If anyone complained about it right now, with all the information out there, they'd be idiots. There's no need at all to complain about the deal. KW wouldn't have gotten anything if a team were allowed to give Freddy a physical.

QUOTE(TheOcho @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 09:43 PM) May I ask why? Seriously, Wilson's a worse option than Uribe

If they lose 2 games before the ASB, there better be some dirt thrown on the coffin