sox-r-us

Walker seems to have got into Guch's mind, makignm him swing at horrible pitches I would let Jon start here now with a 3 run lead.

I would let Jon start the 7th with Boone on (I know he has two hits but I doubt he can get 3)....maybe for one batter, if he get him early then let him pitch the entire 7th Then get in Politte and Hermy

DJ has been funny today. When they were talking about the Cubs or about how no experts picked the Sox before the season, he had some choice words

WELCOME BACK BIG HURT

UH OH I got the game here on the west coast on National TV Fox, and one of the announcers is DJ UH OH

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 08:15 PM) How much are we talking here? Couple of thousand dollars a year worth? Not in merchandising alone. A couple of thousand dollars worth when you count the road games I attend and any White Sox home game I attend (this year I am hoping to....)

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 01:29 PM) For now, I cannot attend games. Sadly, my life consists of working and watching my 4 year old daughter. I do my part by paying my cable bill, to which a small portion goes to comcast, to which a small portion goes to the licensing and television agreement that the Sox have with comcast. Does that make you happy? My two cents from my cable bill this month goes to "studs". Jerry should be thrilled. GO back and READ my first post and Disclaimer II. I was not b****ing about any of you here. So it does not make me happy or sad knowing how many games you attend or do not attend. The purpose of the thread was to generate ideas on root cause and fix for this problem. Some have done an admirable job of coming up with that (some of which might actually reach Boyer). Others continue to b**** about b****ing while b****ing about Timo, Cruddy wtc in similar threads....oh the irony.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 06:05 PM) OK, I have read the whole thread. Actually I think it's one of the better threads recently. Commentary on the thread 1. Attendance is a legit topic to discuss. There is a direct correlation to revenue vs. what the White Sox spend on payroll. They run the team as a zero sum operation and have increased payroll steadily. Steff knows all the numbers by heart. But but but but.....Jim, I swear Jabroni told me there is no co-relation between what JR spends and what we get at the gate. I swear I was told JR would never spend more than what he does right now even if we sold out. :rolly

One more idea to attract more folks to the games. Have some kind of discount for students. This will attract more of the IIT folks.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:09 PM) I've stated this before & I will state it again. Until you build a college campus environment around US Cell field it will never draw like the Cub. The only major campus there is IIT & enrollment there is Compare that with Wrigley which is nearby NW, DePaul, DeVry, Loyola, several extension campuses, etc. This has been talked about to death. Wrigley is surrounded by 400,000 people within walking distance of the park WITH disposable income. Can we even say the Cell is surrounded by 25,000 such persons? The bulk of attendance right now is not coming from Bridgeport but rather the south & west suburbs. Attendance is always misleading as an indicator of revenue with the White Sox because they among the highest parking prices in the league. So when 38,000 packed the Cell on Mon night the parking revenue was probably worth another 10,000 in attendance. The White Sox ran in the middle of the pack in revenue each year despite ranking in the bottom 5 in attendance. The cost of going to a game & partaking in the food is a part of that. To increase the attendance the White Sox need to increase the disposable income around the park. How do you do that when you are surrounding by low income housing to the south, industrial warehouses to the north, the expressway to the east, & homes to the west? It's a difficult thing to do. US Cell field is not going to draw the 20-30 somethings like Wrigley does. It doesn't matter what the White Sox do. That crowd is hip to the Cubs & the area around it. You can't do anything about it short of trying to make the area more attractive to college campuses. Fat chance of that happening with the politics involved. Which means the fan base must come from the older crowd & families. Churches, park districts, & townships hold carnival events all summer long. They make use of parking lots that represent about 1 section of the lots at the Cell. The Sox could double decker the South lot & reserve one of the lots closest to the park for a carnival atmosphere. It provides another reason to go to the Cell outside of the game of baseball. It's a low cost value added attraction that has a more general appeal to families. Kids of all ages love carnivals. Just ask your own. I agree with this. We need an atmosphere that appeals to yongsters. Use the damn IIT campus environment better. Have more bars etc. This place is so much closer to the downtown than Wrigley is.....use it to our advantage.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:01 PM) Jim if you have not passed this on to Brooks and company, do so. If you need contact info, please PM me. And that is what the purpose of this thread is. Solicit opinions, and hopefully some of the ideas reach our marketing guru thereby helping OUR team. And for what you said earlier ssk, I buy tons of Sox merchandise all the time and I go to asmany Ms vs Sox games as I can every year.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 04:40 PM) Lower the God damn prices. I doubt that is a problem given it is not any different from toher ball parks. In fact, at so many ball parks, people cannot use public transportation like the EL to get there, but we can, making the cost of going to games less if we want to. Use park and ride if parking is a concern folsk in terms of $.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 06:05 PM) OK, I have read the whole thread. Actually I think it's one of the better threads recently. Commentary on the thread 1. Attendance is a legit topic to discuss. There is a direct correlation to revenue vs. what the White Sox spend on payroll. They run the team as a zero sum operation and have increased payroll steadily. Steff knows all the numbers by heart. 2. I disagree with bashing the guy who started the thread. Yes, the topic is somewhat worn out but so is Timo bashing, Crede bashing, Ozzie bashing, etc. Since everything is fair game on this site, so is discussion of attendance. 3. For the "you don't go to games so you have no right to b**** about attendance" crowd: B.S. He brought it up for discussion vs. b****ing about it. Everybody has their reasons for going or not going to games. We are all fans. Anything about the franchise is fair game to discuss. Maybe this guy goes to Sox road games in California. Part of the gate always goes to the visiting team anyway. It's a very small portion but that is the case. 4. b****ing about attendance (if he is indeed b****ing) is no different than b****ing about anything. He presented the argument very well, to say he isn't entitled or qualified to b**** about attendance is ludicrous. The same goes for all of you who b**** about Timo ad nauseum, what makes you qualified to b**** about that? Because you are a fan, and it's a relevant topic to the Chicago White Sox. Stop the elitism crap. I have probably been to more Chicago White Sox games in my lifetime than almost everyone here, save for Steff and quickman and possibly a few others. When I didn't live here I went to their road games (Anaheim and Milwaukee) and traveled in whenever I could. Attendance and lack thereof has been an issue since I can remember and that dates to the mid 1960's. How to Increase Attendance 1. First of all it will not be an overnite thing. Attendance is on the upswing as Mike stated in his post. IMO the casual fan is beginning to notice (rediscover?) the White Sox. People like to do the "in" thing. The Sox are becoming more "in" but this never changes overnite. It took the Cubs 20 years to become the "in" thing (from early/mid 60's to the mid 1980's). The PR people need to keep pressing forward and doing the promotions they do. Over time it will make a difference. 2. Continue redeveloping the neighborhood. I grew up there. There's a mistaken impression about Bridgeport, people hang onto old stories and draw conclusions. Talk to some housewives in Naperville, they think Bridgeport is a slum. Then take them to a few establishments in Bridgeport and watch them go "wow ... this is not that bad, this is kinda nice". Word of mouth is very powerful. They are cleaning up Halsted St. big time, that will help. 3. The White Sox and local establishments should aggressively joint venture. The Sox should promote the neighborhood spots, and vice versa. Example: on the back of every ticket they have a Dunkin Donuts promo. Why not rotate it with a promo for the neighborhood places? "Take your ticket stub to Ricobene's within one week of this game date, get $3 off a pizza." Get the fans out into the neighborhood and they will see it's safe and a nice area to hang out. The establishments in Bridgeport need to press this with the White Sox and the White Sox need to be more open to this idea. Embrace the neighborhood. 4. Continue the focus on marketing to kids. Have even more kids promotions. Fundamentals is a good start, community outreach is a good start. Promote the players at kids events, there are millions of kids activities in Chicago. The White Sox should partner with those organizations more than they do. 5. Do special promos for the upper deck and stop treating it like a red haired step child. Give upper deck people a coupon for concessions, more special meal deals, etc. Market the upper deck to community newspapers. I can't remember the last time I saw a Sox promo piece in my local newspaper. 6. Market the Club Level to the swankier audience. It's a marvelous place to sit, they need to promote it to the higher end audience. Chicago Magazine is a good place to start. 7. Continue the crackdown on idiots at the ballpark in terms of fighting, abusive behavior, etc. Make it known that idiots have to pay consequences, put out a press release when some assclown goes to jail for starting a fight at the ballpark. Reinforce that the Chicago White Sox support a friendly, safe environment. Have fun at the ballpark, kick back a few beers and enjoy yourself but don't get out of line. If you do, you are not welcome here. This supports families going to games. And it makes moms feel safer, a very important factor because we know that moms and wives have significant say so in terms of the entertainment $$. 8. Have more raffle drawings, i.e. Lucky Seat winners. Give away stuff from places in the neighborhood. Not at all hard to do. Show your ticket stub at Guest Relations and win a gift certificate if your name is called. Or, have a Lucky Row contest. They do this in Tucson and the whole row wins a pizza. Makes the game more fun and it's good PR for the franchise and the establishment. There are a lot more ideas but that's a start. Another thing they should do is "personalize" the players more. Boyer is trying to do this. Many of these guys are really nice and their personalities would resonate with White Sox fans. Let the fans get to know the players a bit more. Lots of ways to do this. Brilliant. Thanks JimH. One more thing, someone else brought this up as a reason for some of the attendance woes. Parking issues. Didn't I read somewhere that Boyer has made that easier b allowing folsk to park at te CEll, take the max to work and back for the game.....or something like that? If true, there goes another reason partially out of the window.

MILB = Mother I'd Like to Blow? (You know like MILF)

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:41 AM) This thread could go on for 1000 posts and you still won't find the answer. But whatever... You mean I will never find any answers on a message board. Woe my existence

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:37 AM) Lemme know what you guys come up with. I think attendance is a major problem too and would really like to have it fixed. I am sure by tomorrow there will be another 100 posts in here (50 of which wil be useless like Jabroni's and out of the other 50, hopefully 10 of them will hint at what we are trying to understand here).

QUOTE(3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:35 AM) I think it's a stupid sports town, and I live here. Why else would a majority of the city support a losing team, only because it is the hip thing to do, when the attendants aren't even fans of the team or sport. Obviously I'm talking about the Flubs, but even if you look at the Bulls, hell I've cheered and and watched since rebuilding process day 1, and they have no business drawing what they do. Then an organization like the Sox, obviously committed to winning is here, and having something special, and the rest of Chicago doesn't care. The city is full of idiot sports fans, and I personally don't want their fair weather fans in the Cell. If Sox fans fill it up, then great, if no one goes, I still don't care, I'm enjoying this season, and that is all I have on this subject for tonight, bed time. So do you call Sox fans that have supported the Sox all these years stupid too by your logic? It is not like we have won anything forever either....you know that right?

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:29 AM) Yeah, no one came out and just said the attendance sucks. sox-r-us was trying to have a discussion about why it sucks and what will improve it because so far, everybody who said, "wait til june" was wrong. Thanks nite train. Yes, Sleepy, I did not just come out to b****. Read my posts carefully again. I gave reasons that were previously given as being no longer applicable. Maybe I will be proven wrong soon and maybe we sell out eveyr game going forward. I would love that, but I fear that will not happen. And my bigger fear is that will hurt us in the offseason again. We may have to get used to seeing some project like Gload at 1B next season.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:27 AM) It helps because it's more logical than just saying our attendance sucks. It helps because sound arguments are presented as opposed to complaining about attendance. There is less tension on the board. Complaining about attendance when you live far away almost sounds like a personal attack on Sox fans who live here. It sometimes (not always) comes off as saying "Why aren't you doing your part?" Most of us on here do do our part. We had the same discussion on a DePaul message board. We came up with ideas and sent it to the school. There was far less bickering. Sleepy While it may help keep people feel less insecure about themselves, it does not really help solve the problem you are b****ing about. DO you agree? There is no way Ozzie is dropping Timo based off our venting? (It may still happen but not because of our posts). Neither is Cruddy going to improve based of our analysis of why he sucks. It may help with self-rationalization and hence is more therapeutic in nature, I disagree that it really helps solve the problem we are b****ing about to begin with. NOne the less, thanks for your opinions. You have some sound points.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:23 AM) I'd say as a fan of any team, it's your job to support them. Even if you were a Cubs fan I would tell you the exact same thing. It's your job as a fan to go out and support your ballclub. That's what being a fan is. Pride and chants give you that extra boost which translates into wins. That's where the phrase, "homefield advantage" comes into play. The White Sox have none of that. Excellent point nitetrain. I have only been arguing the merits of higher attendance in terms of our ability to consistently compete for the best players in the offseason. But, you bring up another great point that in a season like this, the extra fans are huge in terms of more wins than losses. With the twinkies just 3.5 games behind, we need every extra boost to win every game. And we all know we are not going to win many games by blowouts. These will all be close games, and in close games, the 12th man matters A LOT.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:18 AM) But the implication is that attendance CAN be changed, which it should, as opposed to Crede or Timo who are lost causes. We can't change how the players play, but critiquing is fair game. The original post essentially calls out White Sox fans. Most of us are doing our part. I ask again. Does anybody have a solution? At least b****ing about Crede and Timo usually brings about solutions such as trade scenarios, changing their swing, demoting, any way to get rid of them, etc... I'd like to see some examples of ways to fix the attendance problem instead of what sometimes just comes off as complaining. b****ing about Crede and Timo does not lead to anything that goes to anyone that it matters to. In fact quite the contrary, the more we have b****ed about Timo, the more we see him playing these days......1B???? Fock you Ozzie for making us go through that So should we all stop b****ign about Timo and Crede etc etc/.....it is not like it leads to anything

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:18 AM) But the implication is that attendance CAN be changed, which it should, as opposed to Crede or Timo who are lost causes. We can't change how the players play, but critiquing is fair game. The original post essentially calls out White Sox fans. Most of us are doing our part. I ask again. Does anybody have a solution? At least b****ing about Crede and Timo usually brings about solutions such as trade scenarios, changing their swing, demoting, any way to get rid of them, etc... I'd like to see some examples of ways to fix the attendance problem instead of what sometimes just comes off as complaining. Fair enough Sleepy. I am hoping folks can come up with some examples of how to fix this. Other than everyone here going to more games of course.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:15 AM) Can I just say it's not like the Sox brass are doing nothing to make us come to the games or anything. What about the job Brooks Boyer has done? What about the new packages and upgrades at the ballparks? If you build it, they will come............. eventually. All the more reason for my initial question. It cannot be the weather (it is June now) It cannot be the school issue (see above) It cannot be work traffic (this was a Friday) It cannot be marketing (Boyer is doing a wonderful job now from many accounts) It cannot be a lack of a winning team It cannot be a lack of confidence in the fans that this team can continue to win It cannot be the ball park (which has been improved by many accounts) It cannot be a boring team (we make most games very exciting, win or lose)

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:12 AM) To all those wanting to discuss attendance: What's your solution? I do not know, that is why I am asking the question. I can pull out threads if you want me to from the past, but we were told in April and May that we should not worry about it then and everything would be fine come June.....so now 23K on a Fri night is fine?????

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 4, 2005 -> 07:07 AM) Maybe not pointless, but frustrating. The fact of the matter is that there is no single solution. Hell, none of us know the true reason either. It's all speculation as to why attendance is low. The frustrating part is that you're coming onto a forum where, like I said before, almost everybody goes to plenty of games. You're preaching to the choir. Sleepy White Sox The fact of the matter is that there is no single solution to why Crede bats the way he does either? Or the way Ozzie behaves either? Or the way Timo plays baseball either? None of us know the true reason there either? Should we stop speculating that too? This is a message board where opinions are solicited on everything White Sox. If there is one important factor that is responsible for whether this team can compete year after year, it will be $ and that will be based on attendance to a large degree.