beck72

A team with a near .500 record, stuck with a lot of contracts for 2005, a lot of holes to fill, not a lot of payroll, and a very weak upper level farm system, though with a probable CF replacement ready in AA in Eric Reed, Pierre could be available.

Saying the Sox "have no place" for Pierre is laughable. But I guess guys with high OBP, avg, and who can steal bases are pretty useless around here. OK you win I'll let it go.

That's exactly why the Sox might "overpay" for a guy like Pierre, if he's the type of ballplayer Ozzie wants. FLA has a lot of holes, ala the Sox. Yet don't have the cash to fill them. At first glance, I thought Marte would be untradeable. But his numbers don't look good [hr's allowed, BB/ 9, lower K's, 0.82 G/ F ratio.] Cotts looks very comparable, in almost all categories except ERA [which is often reliant on other relievers. Like other teams have shown, ace set up men are tradeable and give a great return [Dotel, Mota]. And Marte's salary goes up the next few years. For some reason, I think Marte is in decline and could fetch a great price in terms of talent

Marte and Uribe are more easily replaced than a very good leadoff man is. Marte and Cotts have basically the same numbers [ERA, yes, but MArte has had Shingo ready to bail him out--Cotts has had Gas Can Jackson to allow his runners in]. I'd sign a FA reliever who could set up or could close, in case Shingo fails in 2005. Uribe is basically a UTL player. As a starting SS, he'll have a .250 BA and a .300 OBP, basically what Jose will give w/o the power. Marte has looked lost this year, very hittable. I'd say he could be moved before teams catch on. Ozzie certainly isn't impressed. Shingo and others have had to bail him out numerous times Pierre is 27, also entering his prime. If he could be had, he'd be better than Figgins. Though I like Figgins and have stated that he could be traded for on other threads.

Rowand can play in RF, with Pierre in CF. FLA would get talent in Marte and Uribe, and have an everyday SS who could post better offensive numbers than Gonzalez for less cash. FLA's bullpen is very weak, esp if Benitez becomes a FA. Mota, I'm not sure about. Marte is very valuable. But Oz keeps saying he hasn't seen the Marte of 2003 yet.

Alex Gonzalez will make $3.4 million in 2005. FLA and their $42 million team salary will be hard pressed to keep him around. FLA would save a lot of cash on such a deal, almost as important as the talent thye'd get.

Play Crede everyday. Give him the chance tp finish 2004 on a good note. It could only help Joe and the Sox--whether to increase his confidence or his trade value.

Okay

I'm talking the Josh Fields the bullpen guy in AA, not the 3B in w-s.

Everyone knows how good Pierre is at the "small ball" concept Ozzie admires. And would be a perfect fit for the Sox. Yet most dismiss him as completely unavailable, that FLA would never give him up. But would they? This year, Castillo hit #1 for FLa. In 95 AB's, he hit .348. Hitting #2, his normal spot, Castillo hit only .276. Before Pierre came in 2003, Castillo was the leadoff man for them. If Pierre was dealt, Castillo [signed for 2 more yrs] could take his spot back. LoDuca has been hitting #2. Does FLA have anyone capable of playing CF for them, and who could replace Pierre? Yes. Juan Encarnacion is signed for 2005, at $4.35 mill. He has to be around, and can team w/ Miguel Cabrera. Yet in AA [where many of FLA's talent is-I didn't see a person under age 24 in AAA], they have a Pierre clone in Eric Reed. Reed has many of the same tools that Pierre has. And he was FLA's minor league player of the year in 2003. He went on the DL this year, for what I don't know. Reed will turn 24 this Dec. Another top prospect is 20 yr old Jeremy Hermida What does FLA need? Bullpen help [particularly LHP]. 1B. SS. Minor league depth at most positions. Power guys. [they were 12th in both HR's and SLG, yet 9th in BA and 10th in OBP] Pierre will make $3.6 mill in 2005, after making $2.5 mill this yr. What would be a reasonable offer for Pierre, knowing that FLA likes to pinch pennies? I'll start with: An offer of Marte [Ozzie hasn't seemed impressed by him, and it would be a blow to the 'pen, but you have to give up value to get value--and Cotts has had success vs both LH and RH hitters this year], Uribe, a AA minor leaguer or two [such as a bullpen guy like Matt Smith or Josh Fields--their AA affiliate also plays in the Southern league] for Pierre and Alex Gonzalez and his large 2005 contract]? FLA fills two spots for Pierre's contract, and gets rid of Gonzalez's $4 + million salary. FLA could use the money to sign FA's. The Sox could use Cotts in Marte's role [the sox would have to add a veteran or two anyway. Bullpen guys are easier to find and groom than CFers, though LH guys like Marte are hard to find], and have Gonzalez at SS, with Wilson Valdez in Uribe's UTL role. Thoughts?

Young guys like Harris, Crede, Uribe etc are not multi millionares. They are guys trying to become millionares based on their play. I agree they must produce. Yet the Sox screwed with Harris in particular, putting him in Cf just to get Uribe in the lineup. The minute Willie slumped, he sat. Crede should have sat more when Uribe was hot, and Willie should have played more when Uribe was tailing off. The sox haven't done Willie any favors, putting him in the leadoff spot. Before the season, most people thought him hitting . 250, .260 would be a good year, in his first full year. This is what he's done while playing great defense. It's the sox fault for putting him in a position to fail, before he was ready. Willie might eventually be a good leadoff man. But no one expected it to be in 2004.

There's no reason to expect Loaiza to throw like he did in 2003 for the rest of this year. And every reason to expect Este to get up over an 5.00 ERA. The Sox were lucky to get 6 IP and less than 4 runs per start from him for the last month and a half. Contreras should be an upgrade over Este.

From all accounts, it was Delgado who refused a trade to the Sox. Kendall would likely clear waivers. If the sox claimed him, LA wouldn't get a chance to as the sox have first shot at him. LA can't block a team with a lower winning percentage from a claim. It would only be a matter of Kendall waiving his no-trade clause, and Pitt taking on some salary with a prospect or two. While in a perfect world Kendall would like to go to LA, getting dealt there is unlikely

Exactly. With strong SP, and a reliable pen, the Sox don't need to score 10 runs a game. That's why the sox shouldn't be written off THIS year as well. If the offense shows some signs of life and the Sox will be in it until the end.

Like the Soxtalk.com motto says, "Time to come together". The sox play as a team and they'll be OK. The sox SP is coming together and will keep the team in games. The Sox were doing some of the little things last night to "come together". In the 6th inn. [?], when Aaron doubled, moved over by Timo, came in on Lee's hit to RF, PK then hit to the opposite field to score Lee, Pk almost scored on the FB to right. That's what the Sox need to do, hit unselfishly and make contact with runners on instead of overswinging.

The Sox have 61 more games to play. I'm in it until the end. With 14 games left vs the Royals, this team can get some games back. For most of this losing streak and the poor July, 11-16, the sox beat themselves. The Sox can't play this horrible the rest of the year. Nor can the Twins play this well [winning 10 of the last 12 games]. The Sox still have a solid shot. Win today and the Twins lose vs Pedro and its 4 games back and people will stop jumping off the bandwagon [though maybe that's a big positive of all this]

Nothing about Derek Lowe going to the Twins. Or who they received for Mientkewitz

I didn't see Loaiza coming back this year, only going to a 5.00+ ERA. I saw him quickly becoming the 5th starter. Contreras has a big upside and could be key down the stretch. This is a good deal by KW.

This is a good deal if Contreras is healthy and can pitch like he has in the past. The biggest reason though---Loaiza didn't listen to Cooper and Ozzie. They told him he needed to stop nibbling, to go after hitters aggressively. He refused. This is a statement trade telling other guys they need to get with the program or they'll be gone as well.

Why I'm responding to your post who knows but here goes---- Sandy alomar was on AM 670 this afternoon, and basically validated my post. One of the things he said was the Sox need to stop scoreboard watching. They saw the red sox beating the Twins last night and the sense of urgency to beat the Tigers was almost not there. It was like"well we won't lose any ground, and there's a lot of time left". What this tells me is the sox players are looking for other guys to bail them out. Maybe via a trade, maybe by someone else getting the big hit. Guys are pressing at certain times, and resigned to the motto, "we'll get them next time" at others. Instead of looking to do the small things, like getting on base, taking pitches, hitting to the opposite field [things the sox have done this year when they have been winning] a lot of guys are looking to hit the five-run homer. Pk was the perfect example vs the Twins, back to his bat throwing/ flipping, cursing ways when he made an out. Human nature being what it is, the remaining sox players need to realize they have to replace Frank and Maggs by doing the small things [ie Ozzie ball]. they can't replace the power numbers. But they can still score enough runs to win games by playing a team game. As a fan, I try to be realistic. Baseball is a mental and a physical game. Physically, the sox aren't in that bad of shape. They have their starting pitching and bullpen healthy, and good talent yet to get untracked for an extended period of time. Discounting the emotional aspect of baseball, with all the highs and lows of a 162 game season, is foolish though. Ozzieairdale, you are being foolish. Sure the Sox may continue tanking. But they have an equally good chance of getting back on track and playing to their talent level. Jump ship if you want. But try to keep your negativity confined on the empty posts you or others of your ilk start. BTW- the Sox were a season high 10 games over .500 before they lost the last 6 games. Its been a horrendous week. And with the sox hitting about .230 in July as a team, its been a bad month. The sox hit like they did in April, May and June and we wouldn't be having this conversation

With few moves that make sense for the Sox at the trade deadline and the prospects looking very slim about any additions, I still expect the sox to wake up. The remaining players know it's all on them to replace Maggs and Frank [hitters as well as pitchers need to step up]. This alone should wake the Sox up from their lethargic July. The prospect that some big bat will come and bail them out will no longer be an option weighing in the back of their minds. They must step up and come together as a team to get to the playoffs. Guys like PK, Lee, Jose and Crede have been in Maggs and Frank's shadow their entire careers. They struggled in the Twins series when it counted. I for one think more than one of these guys will learn from this July lesson and turn it on the next two months. With the horrendous July behind them, the Sox should look more like a real major league team when the bats wake up. Starting tonight, the bats will awaken. There will be no more excuses, or waiting on a savior. Small ball, timely hitting w/ RISP, homeruns with a runner or two on base, solid pitching to keep the team in games, working counts, good defense, will be the norm rather than the exception. Go Sox!

Nice post. One thing I disagree with though. All the non-execution wouldn't cost Ozzie his job. It would cost some players theirs. Either guys get the job done or new players will be brought in, even if it means minor leaguers. Ozzie demands performance, much like us fans do.

In the meantime, the Sox should sit on their hands and wait as the offense tanks and they miss the playoffs.....Count me out as one who wants to wait. Few teams will trade valuable, talented everyday players for an A ball player. Most teams want a guy almost ready for the majors. Sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Baseball is not the be-all, end-all of life. It's just another thing to get enjoyment out of. Far too many other things are out there of much greater importance. The more emphasis we put on loving our families, helping others, the better off we'll be. It reminds me of a conversation I had with Bishop Thomas Gumbleton. Found out he was a big Tigers fan. I had never met the man before. But I got a kick out of thinking, of all the work he's done aiding others, of all the people he has helped in his life, he gets enjoyment from baseball. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Yet he had his priorities in order. Thanks for putting our minds back on the real priorities in life, Bob! Here's hoping and praying for good health to all in need of it.

I disagree. KW is down his top 2 hitters. He's trying to upgrade a very inconsistent offense when not many players are available via trade. IMO, this is not a "defining moment" that his career should rest upon. The Sox have scouts who tell KW whether or not a player can do the job. Their careers may rest upon a deadline deal but not KW's.