beck72

We should keep an eye on any Marlins news this offseason, esp re: Lowell. If he becomes a FA [the article said he doesn't have a no-trade clause], then they'll need a big bat [PK to fill their hole at 1B?]. Cabrera would likely go back to 3B I look for Ozzie to trade w/ the Marlins. Somehow I think Pierre would be available. I believe they have a CFer in AA [where Cabrera came from] who would give them what Pierre could [but bat lower in the order, and have Castillo leadoff] Something along the lines of eating a contract [like Alex Gonzalez's $4 mill] in order to get Pierre so the Marlins could get payroll relief. [though with Lowell moving, money would be freed up there, nut prob would be spent on pitching to resign Pavano.]

I think Shingo will be back in set up, and used as insurance if the closer gets hurt or fails. the key is getting a proven 9th inning guy, or moving someone from set up to closer, ala Dotel, Nathan, Lidge, etc. I haven't checked on either guy. But it's good to start looking. Seeing as Benitez and Felix Rodriguez are the only FA's out there [Percival has reportedly gotten back to 95-96 mph and could come cheaper], a trade will likely help the Sox bullpen.

With Beltran, PK wouldn't be around. But here's what a basic lineup could look like: 1 SS Vizquel 2 RF Rowand 3 CF Beltran 4 DH Frank 5 LF Lee 6 1b Gload 7 2B/ 3B Uribe I think upgrades could be made at C [a DAvis/ Burke platoon could work though] or 2b/ 3B, with Crede and/ or Willie Harris being traded, and the holes filled either via trade or free agency] [for example, A guy like Placido Polanco could play either 2b or 3B for the Sox]

I disagree. This year with KW paying Koch's salary to just go away proves they won't just keep guys who aren't producing. If Everett performs, he'll play. If he can't he won't. EVen if it means paying another team to take him. KW is really on the spot. He needs a great offseason to remake this club. And it starts with pitching, "grinders" and an impact type player. that's why moving Lee could be a possibility as well. I don't think he's someone to build a team around. With Rowand in LF or RF, the other OF spot could be filled by a number of players, Everett included. Also, Andres Torres, Escobar, Brian Anderson, etc.

Seeing how the sox don't have a position player to build their team around, who can steal 37 bases, play gold glove defense, can hit for avg and power as a switch hitter, I see it as more possible than unlikely. Few teams will trade away guys like Beltran. Seeing how both Ozzie and KW aren't the most patient guys, and want to win now and future years, the FA route is the best way to get better fast. Beltran is the only real impact player who fits all the Sox needs.

I had always eliminated Beltran from consideration for him signing with the Sox this offseason. I figured the sox had too many holes to fill, and not enough cash to sign him [Probably, 5 yrs, $80 million minimum [$16 mill. a yr]. Yet the Ken Rosenthal piece from the Sporting News saying the Sox might go after Beltran if they didn't resign Maggs and traded either Lee or PK [both probabilities], piqued my interest. Doing some checking, it doesn't sound that unrealistic for the Sox to get Beltran, provided they gave him an offer near what other teams will be offering. *1st, his personality is a match for the Sox. I looked at an article on Beltran from my old Sports Illustrated from 6-28-04. Here are some comments from him: "I pray to God I can be a great player, but I want to keep my life... I don't want to be hiding from people. It would be difficult to be recognized everywhere, so that I couldn't do things ordinary people do. I love to go to the grocery store or the movies or go to the mall and just be an ordinary person. In Kansas City they don't know who I am. Same thing when I'm home in Puerto Rico. I like that". Does that sound like a guy who'd want to go to the yankees or red sox? Beltran could blend in a city like Chi, giving him the freedom and space to move around pretty much unnoticed. *2nd, the two prerequisites for signing Beltran: the team be a contender and Beltran remain in CF. People will say he'll eat too much of the Sox total salary. Maybe. Yet the Sox don't have a position player to build a team around. The Sox are building up the pitching, which they should. But a complete young player like Beltran could be the start of things. Seeing how KW and Ozzie are building up the team anew, look at two teams each admires. KW drools over the A's, who have pitching and one star, Eric Chavez. FLA won with pitching, defense and one star, Ivan Rodriguez. I did a rough estimate of signed Sox players for 2005 [i included Garland with a $3 mill arb. salary] and I came up with a $65.38 mill. team salary with these players: SP- Buehrle, Contreras, Garcia + Garland Bullpen-Marte, Shingo, Politte Lee, Frank, Everett, Beltran. *Rowand, Uribe, Crede, and Davis could fill spots for a few million. Add in $4 mill for Vizquel at SS, and the Sox could get a bullpen arm and a SP for about $80 mill. A few other options to make signing Beltran doable: *The Sox could trade Garland and his $3 mill salary and put it toward a FA like Odalis Perez [$7, 8 mill a yr] and fill the 5th spot with someone like Grilli, Cotts, Diaz, B-Mac or a ST non rostered SP. *The sox trade Lee as well as PK. It give them flexibility to fill other holes, by keeping Garland and still getting a top SP. It also helps rebuild the Sox by getting young impact type prospects. I've learned that when the Sox are mentioned in pursuing big names, there's usually some truth to the rumors. Yet we'll all know this offseason

If the Sox concentrate on building their team based on speed, defense, contact hitters and strong pitching [along with a solid minor league system of "grinder" type players ], they don't have to worry what the Twins do. [Esp. as the Sox will spend more money to add players during the season]. Hopefully this offseason will be the start of that process. It seems to have started in the minors with guys like Brian Anderson and Ryan Sweeney, and pitchers like B-Mac who can throw strikes. That said, the sox could use a few Koskie or Radke type players via free agency to help them win in '05.

Some people think that losing HR hitters means having a weaker offense. But with the HR hitters, also means going through long inconsistent stretches where the guys are easy outs [just look at Jose and crede as prime examples of this]. With more consistent hitters, guys who make better contact, guys who can bunt, hit to the opposite field and put the ball in play, the long stretches of "slumps" are lessened. These are more line drive hitters, where our HR guys are more prone to pop up and K. But you are right. With a stronger pitching staff, [add in another top reliever to go with a SP-- I like Odalis Perez] the sox don't need to win games 9-8. The Sox need to be able to win the 3-2 and 4-3 games.

One thing to consider in this whole trade Lee or PK deal, is the health of Frank for '05. Which player would be a better DH if Frank missed a lot of time? [i know Everett may be around but still] PK has hated being DH, based on his past comments. PK thinks too much from AB to AB and would sit and stew about bad AB's. I could see Lee being alright in that role. He's not the brightest bulb on the panel and could sit and hit.

I could go either way about trading Lee or PK. I think Lee's a slugger and PK is more of a professional hitter. Both PK and Lee have hit well this yr w/ RISP. I think Lee would have great trade value and would deal him if overwhelmed in a Richie Sexton type deal. But looking at the stats, PK's K's are up, so are his GIDP [like 21+]. His home vs away splits are very bad [hitting .300 + at home with a .500 SLG and only .240 with a SLG in the .300's on the road]. Lee has only hit into 9 DP's this yr. Lee has continued to improve his BA, and is more versatile with his speed. He also has hit RHP and LHP equally well. And his defense has continued to improve as well.

Guillen was only quoted in the Southtown saying he had a CFer and a LFer. The Tribune writer surmised that new guys could be at possibly 5 of 9 spots. Makes sense with Frank at DH and Uribe [either at 2B--you'd love that, with no Willie--or SS] holding down the other two spots. That Ozzie would come out and say he's got Lee and Aaron for next yr is a very strong statement, and prob. means PK is the one going elsewhere.

Those 3 starters will likely give the Sox 3 guys with a sub .300 OBP. Add in Uribe and Ben Davis as starters who would be a little over .300 OBP, and the sox would be a very weak offensive team in '05 as well. Too few contact hitters who can get on base, too many streaky power hitters [like the last 4, 5 years]. I think Crede will have a decent future, and rebound. But he still is streaky, K's a lot and doesn't get on base much. The sox need more from their starters at 3B, C, SS, 2B and RF in order to win in '05. While the sox could use another top SP [which they likely will get this offseason, and maybe a closer to push Shingo back into set up] the long stretch where the Sox went from 1st place to 3rd, the pitching was very solid. It was the offense that tanked, just like in years past. That has to change first and foremost. And keeping the same guys around hpoing they'll change isn't a plan. It's a recipe for disaster. Again, I'm not pushing an agenda. I'm just going by what the sox decision makers have been saying. And that is change is coming.

Many posters have said they would like to start fresh. While we fans may be "pipedreaming", I'm gooing by the comments made by KW and Ozzie about what next years team should look like. Changes are coming whether you or I like them. I for one like what I'm hearing. But by no means should Jose be back. He's not hitting his weight, and makes Sammy sosa look like a contact hitter by comparison.

Good points. A few questions for you though. *What do you see as the reason for the Sox failing to make the playoffs four the 4th yr in a row? *Who exactly do you want to see given more chances? *Do you see any problems with the Sox offense, and what changes would you make?

Only if the Sox landed a 3B man like Koskie or better, and traded for a leadoff man. Then the Willie/ Uribe combo wouldn't be bad. A crede, uribe, willie and gload IF, without a top notch OF, would make the sox a 4th place team.

There will be FA's signed. Not the biggest names but some will come to the Sox. The biggest reasons--The Sox have openings and cash to spend

I can see Marte in a package. Ozzie doesn't seem impressed

From today's papers: Daily Southtown: "We have a center fielder, we have a left fielder and we have to see who's out there to see who we can get," Guillen said. Guillen wants the Sox to have more speed and a stronger defense next year — with or without Ordonez. "I want defense. I want people who can run," Guillen said. "I think (hitting coach) Greg Walker doesn't want to hear that, but that's the way we're going to go. "To me, the teams that win are the teams that have speed, chase the ball and pitch." Chicago Tribune: "But now it appears that general manager Ken Williams is looking to fill as many as five of the nine starting positions, among them third base, catcher, right field, shortstop or second base and either first base or left field." ************************************************************** From the sounds of this, here's who would likely be set for '05: CF-Rowand DH-Thomas LF--Lee 2B or SS--Uribe 1B-- could be manned by Ross Gload, with PK traded. [Not many FA's available here; wouldn't make sense to trade for a "impact 1B" if the Sox trade one to begin with] 3B--open, with Crede unlikely kept as a bench player who can only play one position; acquire via trade, FA? FA Placido Polanco plays both 3b and 2B--the sox could use him for an important role, might be attractive for a FA as a reason to sign; Koskie may be a long shot but a solid choice 2b or SS--the sox don't seem sold on a Harris / Uribe starting tandem; of the two, Uribe has shown the most promise and should get a starting spot at either SS or 2B. Omar Vizquel is likely available C--A Davis/ Burke tandem could get the nod. Not many other C's around fit the "speed and Defense" mold; [only a Jason Kendall would fit that description, and its hard to see the sox getting him--though I'd love it, and would give the Sox a position player/ leadoff hitter/ grinder signed for a few years] RF--Someone in house, of Everett, Timo Perez, Escobar, Borchard, Brian Anderson, Andres Torres, or sign a FA to a 1 yr deal, or Via Trade. Not a lot of good options here. {Unless the Sox could trade for an impact CFer [ala Juan Pierre], having Aaron in RF would be a solid choice. There are many unknowns. But for some reason, I look for some deal with FLA this offseason. With Florida not making the playoffs after some big moves, and a stadium deal unlikely, something tells me that one of Pierre or Castillo could be traded for in the right deal. LoDuca could hit #2, and both Pierre and Castillo could hit leadoff. Either could fit in nicely on the Sox. And their GM has shown a willingness to take big chances. And we know how KW operates. Should be an interesting offseason to say the least. and its long overdue

The Sox will have better baseball players next year, either through trades or free agency. This much is certain. Ozzie and KW's careers depend on fielding a team of "grinders", guys who can play the way Ozzie has been talking about.

Maggs and Frank covered up a lot of the holes. One good thing has come out of their injuries, though. It made it very clear that the Sox "core" isn't what we fans/ mgmt imagined it to be. And the Sox can be rebuilt to be a better team that isn't so frustrating and medicore.

Contact hitters. The Sox have had improved SP and it hasn't helped that much [though the Sox should add a FA SP and get a bullpen arm]. The Sox need everyday players who can put the ball in play, get on base and score runs on a consistent basis.

I agree, the entire organization needs to be on the same page. For instance, the Sox minor league system needs to be filled with Ozzie type players. Yet the sox have a lot of pitching "projects" who throw hard but are wild [The sox need more B-Macs who can throw strikes] and the Joe B types. the last few drafts have changed things a little to get more rounded players though. I disagree on Everett. When healthy and in shape, Carl could play a decent LF or RF. His bat, attititude and game is the type that fits on an Ozzie team [makes consistent contact and to all fields, has some power, moves runners over, versatile]. Kind of like Jeff Conine on the Marlins. He was key for them down the stretch in 2003. the sox will still need some vets around when it's crunch time.

This is where the Sox players have to step up and put these guys in their place, by beating them. The guys who are listless and play crappy vs the Twins from here on out don't deserve to wear the Sox uniform next year.

It does no good for Ozzie to show emotion if his players aren't. The players need to show they have pride, that they aren't going to roll over and die for the Twins. I saw in the paper that Torii Hunter was yelling at and glaring at the Sox after the 6th inning, basically "trash talking", saying the Sox were done. Buehrle was quoted in the Southtown talking about it. It's up to the players to stick up for themselves, to put away bad calls and win. The remaining games against the Twins should show Ozzie and us fans which players "get it" and which ones don't. The sox season tanked after Burke was barrelled over. A fighting team would have taken that play and used it to fire them up, not use it as an excuse to go and hide like they did. The sox need fighters in order to win. They are few and far between on the Sox.

That's why people who think not resigning Maggs and Jose will solve the Sox problems are badly mistaken. This team should look dramatically different. One thing I noticed w/ Ozzie, as the camera panned to him a number of times during the horrible 6th inning, he was letting the Sox guys' take their lumps, as they were getting embarassed. He's taking notes on who'll be back next yr. Guys w/o heart won't be around.