beck72

QUOTE (VAfan @ Jun 6, 2009 -> 08:40 PM) What's the biggest flaw in your argument? Trying to make the case that the Pirates know WTF they are doing. And that's a HUGE flaw. Pirates haven't had a winning season since 1992, Barry Bonds's last year with the team. Remember Jason Bay? What did the Pirates get for him? Oh, and Nick Swisher? He posted .219 .332 .410 .742 last year. McLouth beats him in every category, plus speed, and is cheaper to boot. Neal Huntington has only been GM for 2 years. He's no more to blame for the Pirates poor track record of recent years than you. He was with Clev. since 1998. He seems to be doing a decent job, getting prospects and building around pitching. The Nady deal landed them Tabata. I like Morton and Hernandez in the McLout deal My biggest question is why couldn't the Pirates move McLouth to a corner OF spot, if he was the offensive savior the sox needed? The sox have enough guys who can hit in the .250's and post a .330 OBP.

I don't think anyone is under any illusions that McLouth would post up better numbers than Danks in '09 or in '10. It just that acquiring him would have likely prevented the sox from getting a top SP that they are supposedly in the market for. Whether the sox get that SP who knows. McLouth did have a breakout year last year, hitting .276 with 26 HR's and 23 sb's. But he still has only a .260/.338/.460 career line. It's not like this guy could be penciled in for hitting .300 with a .370 OBP. Kenny tried getting that young slugger to build around in Swisher. McLouth kind of reminds me of him, without the OBP. I think the Pirates sold high on him. It's not like he had a huge contract. Him being expendable, instead of someone the Pirates could build around, says a little about what they think his ceiling is.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 4, 2009 -> 10:56 PM) Yeah, we easily could have bettered Atlanta’s deal, but McLouth is simply not worth the cost. We have a very good CF and leadoff prospect in Jordan Danks, who is probably a 1 - 1 ½ years away. Once Danks is ready, we’d have to move McLouth to a corner spot, where his production would only be league average at best. No reason to waste valuable assets on a short-term upgrade in CF. Also, it’s pretty clear that Kenny’s focus right now is a front-line starter who can help this year and in the future. We shouldn’t trade any of the young players we have in AA unless it’s for a right-handed, stud pitcher who’s locked up for several seasons. If we need do an upgrade at CF or 2B, we should be able to find some cheap short-term options once we get closer to the trading deadline just because of the economy. Welcome aboard You took the words right out of my mouth. The short term fix that McLouth could have provided would have kept the sox from acquiring the front line SP that seems to be on the sox radar [either this year or in the offseason]. What the sox do very well is evaluate the players in their system. If they feel Jordan Danks is near ready to help the sox [later this year or to start 2010], then trading key talent for McLouth didn't make sense. From the sounds of it, Danks may be nearer then we think. If Danks is the CFer of the near future, then getting McLouth for 2009, at the probable expense of landing the top SP, doesn't make sense. That said, I do think the sox need to have another option for leadoff. Pods isn't likely to stay healthy. But, like you said, other names would likely be available that are more for the short term.

QUOTE (JDsDirtySox @ Jun 1, 2009 -> 01:21 AM) I would give up anything outside of Beckham to get Haren. I'd actually like Webb more, as long as the medical records check out, with his sinker tailor made for the Cell. He wouldn't cost as much in terms of talent, with 2 less years remaining on his deal compared to Haren, through 2010. I like Haren, but he gets more FB outs than GB's.

You might want to change this thread to the "Latest Starting Pitcher Linked to the Sox". Kenny has laid down the marker early with the Peavy trade talks. Now that new SP's are coming near the trade market, other teams GM's will be calling KW. If the right deal comes along--say a Haren, Webb [someone locked up through 2010 at minimum] KW will be right in the conversation. I can't see KW giving up a boatload for Bedard. Few, if any, teams will.

I'd be real hesitant to start reserving a plaque for Richard in Cooperstown just yet. Don't get me wrong. It's nice to see Clayton throw well. Yet KC came into last night's game on a 2-6 slide, only scoring 21 runs in those 8 games. Pittsburgh was also on a slide when he shut them down. I wouldn't include Richard in a deal for Oswalt. Poreda would probably be the guy to include. But to say Richard shouldn't be included in any type of deal is a bit premature.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ May 30, 2009 -> 12:36 PM) Right now with Richard pitching the way he is, I'm not sure if going for a big name arm like Oswalt who's on the decline is the best route to go. Hang onto Richard and Poreda, and use that $40M you'd save from our expiring contracts on some big name players in free agency IMO. The sox M.O. is to trade for a SP, than sign one in free agency. And of the position player free agents, only Figgins makes sense for the sox. That means the sox would still have cash for a SP with a big contract. I do agree. Richard should stay if they do attempt to deal for someone like Oswalt. Unless the sox could trade Richard for a younger SP than Oswalt, who is polished, proven and about to make big money/ get expensive. The sox would definitely be trading him at his highest value if they dealt Richard now.

If the sox were to acquire Oswalt without including Richard, Colon could then be dealt to any number of teams looking for an arm. His trade return, while not great, could have some value.

It's interesting that the sox reportedly have their scout watching the 'Stros even though Oswalt isn't pitching until Mon. Only Bourn has any appeal, and would have to be an add-on to an Oswalt deal, with the sox involving Brian Anderson. Not sure I'd do that. But I could see the Pods experiment ending soon with an injury. Then the sox have no real option at leadoff. I'd have to think the sox-Stros could find a match for Oswalt, that wouldn't have to include Richard. The Stros have little in the IF, and that's the sox strength [with Fields/ Nix expendable]. Have Poreda be the headliner in the deal, and only Oswalt would have to agree to waive his NTC. On a side note, Oswalt has been a 2nd half pitcher in recent years [2.53 ERA from '06-08]. He has had a -1.20 ERA the last 3 years compared to the 1st half, with a sub 2.00 ERA in Sept. and a little over 2.00 in Aug. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...ng3&three=1

Houston has a horrible farm system. They need quantity in any trade. If Houston can get a deal similar to the Peavy package, they'd be happy. Now, who's to say Oswalt would be though.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 24, 2009 -> 02:14 PM) For Cleveland to give DeRosa to the Sox, and I agree he would be a good fit, they would probably have to give up someone like Poreda. KW's price and some NL West GM's price for him is very different. I certainly wouldn't want to give up much for DeRosa. But if the price was doable, why not. I'm just having a hard time seeing who'd be at 3b for the rest of 2009, who could help fix the sox problems with avg. and OBP besides Beckham--who IIRC, hadn't played 3b before recently. As much as I like Gordon, playing 3b would be tough for him let alone trying to adjust to major league pitching.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 24, 2009 -> 02:39 PM) Last time I popped off about Fields' ineptness he came through, so I will do it again. 1 extra base hit in his last 88 AB. 0 in his last 47. As far as DeRosa, I can't see the Sox and Cleveland making a trade. I think the next guy you see at 3rd is Beckham. Beckham likely now could outproduce Fields. I just don't know if rushing a potential cornerstone of the future is worth the short term fix at 3b. Getting a one year stopgap like DeRosa [who could also play 2b, take some pressure of Getz] may be better for the both the sox in the short term [a guy who could get on base for 2009 ahead of the big boppers, keeping Getz down in the order] and long term [letting Beckham progress slowly, on his timetable rather than the sox].

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 24, 2009 -> 02:40 PM) If you think all it would take is Lance Broadway to get the Indians to trade Mark Derosa to one of their top rivals, you are sadly mistaken. Trading within the division is less of a factor in this economy. Teams are more interested in cutting payroll. The Indians won't jack up the price because it's the White sox. If the Indians start dealing, it'll likely mean they are writing off 2009.

It's pretty clear that Fields can't keep hitting the way he is and start for the sox. The question then becomes "who's next to play 3b"? Betemit's Uribe without the power or glove. Beckham's a long shot at best. CJ Retherford probably isn't ready either. Why not take a flyer on Mark DeRosa, who reportedly is available for "major league ready pitching"? I read this as a bullpen arm. If it takes Lance Broadway and the $4 mill left on DeRosa's contract for 2009, would the sox do it? DeRosa also can play 2b, 1b, and has even played the OF. His bat and OBP has been pretty decent over the years.

I don't think Peavy will end up with the sox. He'd be a great pickup. But it's not going to happen. Mostly because he should want to keep control over where he goes, what happens to him when he gets there [extend the limited NTC in his deal in 2011 and 2012], and get financially compensated for agreeing to be dealt [get his option year guaranteed]. He probably won't get everything he wants from another team. But he loses nothing by holding out a little longer--until 2011 when his NTC is limited. Just because SD is ready to deal him doesn't mean he has to agree to be dealt. But let's stop the Peavy bashing already, esp. the personal attacks on his manhood/ courage, etc. It serves no purpose and it makes sox fans look like spurned lovers who can't get over the rejection. The guy earned his NTC and deserves the right to play where he wants for both himself and his family.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ May 22, 2009 -> 12:41 AM) Today reminds me of the Torii Hunter and Kosuke Fukodome slighting from a few years ago. I hate the fact that big time players choose to stay away from here. It makes the Sox seem like step children when compared to the Cubs. Both signed with teams that were offering the most money. The Sox were the highest bidder on Hunter until the Angels came in and overspent. [My biggest regret with not signing Hunter was it would have prevented the sox from trading for Swisher.] If the Sox wanted to overspend on players, they could be like the Cubs and sign a free agent or two. They did it with Linebrink. But the Sox like to trade for players, and "overspend" in terms of talent, rather than dollars. I'd much rather the sox miss on a trade now and then than get locked into a huge, bloated long term contract.

From Jon Heyman's SI article, http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/base...rade/index.html it sounds like Peavy wants to get his NTC waived for the rest of the contract, and get his option picked up. Can't blame him. It would be hard for Peavy to turn the sox down with all the concessions. Esp. as Peavy could be moved in 2011 w/o his consent. This sounds optimistic to me. "The Padres appear disinclined to provide any major financial inducements to motivate Peavy to accept the deal. Axelrod has suggested in the past that if Peavy were traded, he would like the no-trade clause to be extended through the 2011 and 2012 seasons (in his current contract, it ends after 2010). Although Axelrod said he hasn't spoken to Peavy about the no-trade extension recently, he reiterated that his client's feelings likely remain the same."

If Peavy was supposedly ready to waive his NTC for the Cubs, why not the sox? He must like the city well enough. If Peavy looks into the sox organization, with ownership, KW, Ozzie and the coaching staff, he should like what he sees. What is especially telling are the veteran players like Thome, Dye, Pk, AJ, Buerhle, Griffey last year who have been treated as well as most players are, despite rumors from time to time about potential trades [though with his NTC clause, it wouldn't be a factor.] The sox have a solid organization that will only get better in the years ahead, with the young players coming up like Beckham, Flowers, etc.

Konerko wouldn't waive his no trade clause to go to the Mets. Anyway, too early to blow it all up.

AJ Pollack sounds like he'd be a good choice for the sox at #23-a solid, top of the order hitter who has speed and can play defense. I read somewhere that he was called a right handed hitting Jacoby ellsbury with less speed. Here's a writeup from Sporting news blog: "But another outfielder whose been solid all year -- and has been ever since he lit up the Cape Cod League last year -- is Notre Dame's A.J. Pollock. Pollock led the league in hits and doubles, and ranked second in average at .377. Obviously, Pollock has proven he can hit with a wood bat. This kid's a gamer, likes to get dirty and is a great contact hitter. He's a little bit overlooked because he's s bit stocky at 6-1 and 200 pounds. His bat and above-average speed can play at second base, too, where I could see him develop power like Dan Uggla, but with a much better glove. One scout's take: "A versatile defensive player with great hands, a strong arm and good instincts. Offensively, he can hit for power and is one of the Irish's fastest baserunners." In a draft full of questions, Pollock's pretty solid. What you see is what you get, so there will be no surprises. There's tools and athleticism, and then there's track record. With this kind of draft, I know where I'd be headed." http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/MLB_Draft...nce?#page_break

Pitiful. We can only hope the sox aren't too far under .500 by the time they play half way decent ball, and no one in the Central gets on a hot streak.

I think the key question is not whether Fields is a bust. The key is whether or not Fields will be a long term fixture at 3b, and a guy the sox build around like Quentin, Alexei, Danks, Floyd. If he's a .250 hitter, with a .320 OBP, with some power, I think the sox can do better with Beckham, Viciedo, or Retherford.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 10, 2009 -> 12:55 PM) I don't think the current version of Josh Fields could get you anything but a potential "horse" that needs a lot of refinement. The White Sox had the opportunity to address this during the offseason when Contreras wasn't expected to be with the team let alone the starting rotation. They thought Marquez was a stud. Jon Garland on a 1 year contract would have looked very nice in a White Sox uniform. Too bad KW thought Marquez was the same pitcher and didn't want to spend any money. I'm not really thinking of the sox getting a horse. But a solid #4 or 5 starter. The sox would have to part with top prospects to even sniff a potential ace/ horse. Teams should be looking to deal salaried players this deadline, as teams that are losing cash w/ low attendance, and need to shed salary could be trading partners. That should be able to fill the void if the sox still need a SP. IMO, Garland wasn't worth the money-even in hindsight. Jon is throwing OK but that's in the NL. Contreras should turn it around. His location and consistency isn't there. But his arm strength is.

I'd imagine, this year or offseason anyway, the sox would have to trade Josh Fields in order to get a guy with a high enough ceiling to be a "horse". Yet for 2009, the guy would have to be solid enough to be a 5th Starter, someone who can give them 6 innings a start. Of course, that potential horse would have to be underperforming [like Fields], but has the stuff/ makeup to put it together. If Beckham can play 3b reasonably well, it could make Fields expendable. Esp. as the sox have other options at 3b in the minors with Viciedo and C.J. Retherford. The place to look would be pitching rich teams in the minors and young solid SP's in the bigs that have a need for a position player like Fields.

IMO, the ETA of the Sox youth movement has already passed. The sox have added Getz, Fields, richard, to go along with the 2008 players who had breakout years--Alexei, Danks, Floyd and Carlos. Yet it's the sox "youth core"-Alexei, Quentin, Floyd and Fields [the jury is still out with him, and I got slammed for saying he may not be a player to build around for the future, even when he got off to a good start]-that has been playing sub par this year. Even Danks has struggled as of late. Getz is performing better than expected, though, and Brian Anderson. The Sox "Youth Movement" doesn't mean trading away players like Buerhle, Jenks, Dye, PK, etc, with the intention to try and make the playoffs in 3-4 years. Thome won't be re-signed and Dye may come back as the DH. Being in the AL Central, means the sox will still have a chance to make the playoffs as they add a few young players to go along with vets like AJ, PK, et al. The Royals probably won't run away with the division this year. And no team looks like they have a dynasty in the making. The future of the Sox rests in AA with the position players Beckham, Flowers, Viciedo, Allen and Shelby and how they develop. And if a few of the A ball starting pitchers, and Poreda can develop into top of the rotation guys.