caulfield12

I forgot Phegley and Bassitt, although he's also on the shelf. As to Kylo Ren's point, no, it's not about what we missed out on now. It's the fact that our farm system is actually producing some positive results at the major league level for the first time in what feels like a decade. That's a good thing. It means other GM's will trust acquiring our talent more than in the past.

We're almost to the point where we can field a team of former Sox prospects. Trayce Thompson OF Micah Johnson 2B/OF Montas (granted, he's injured) Chris The Dragon Devenski SP Gio Gonzalez SP Marcus Semien SS Daniel Hudson Closer Chris Young OF Chris Carter 1B/DH Josh Phegley C Chris Large Mouth Bassitt, SP

QUOTE (SCCWS @ May 17, 2016 -> 04:09 PM) Houston is a bad team. So hopefully rodon dominates them and rights his funk. Sure, but they just went toe to toe with the Red Sox...and their offense is really starting to come alive. Pitching, yeah...that's an issue. But this won't be an easy series.

Wouldn't count on the Indians losing this one tonight. Salazar has the 3rd best ERA in the AL, among the nastiest stuff, lowest BAA...4-0 Indians in the second inning. Ironically, Simon was 4-0 against the Indians last year.

There's 25% in America that just hate Obama and won't give him a chance because of their racial OR political views or both. I do think he was under-prepared to deal with the partisan rancor and ended up using a lot of his power up the first 2 years...I'm not sure even if he was more respectful towards the Republicans in Congress that it would have made a difference, since their philosophy has always been to obstruct/deny/tear down the country while there's a DEM in office and wait patiently for another opportunity. But a lot of those who dislike Obama because of his race won't come right out and say it so directly. That's why they love Trump. Obama isn't patriotic enough (didn't wear the American pin). We gave away everything to other countries (the free trade agreements started with NAFTA but are mostly a Republican conceit which has decimated the working class/unions...Obama does have some culpability there). Obama acts white/is an Uncle Tom. Obama's a Muslim. Obama is a foreigner. Obama hates America and loves to apologize for our unique American greatness to the rest of the world. Obama's made our enemies more emboldened (Donald Trump will magically show up and just do "better" deals, like Iran, for example). Obama hates Israel. Obama's wife wears the pants in that family. Obama's all talk and no action, "si se puede/yes we can" hasn't led to any real, meaningful change. America's more partisan than it ever has been because Obama's too arrogant and disrespectful to Republicans. Obama plays too much golf. The list goes on and on and on.

And it's not just the WGN TV aspect. Look at the Braves, they had the same advantage with WTBS/TNT and even branded themselves, "America's Team." They even had that incredible 14 year playoff run (albeit only 1 title), but I doubt the number of current Cubs' fans vs. Braves' fans nationally (especially outside of their home viewing regions) must be running something like 10 or 15 to 1 in favor of the Cubs over the Braves for favorite team. Part of the falloff, imo, was due to Ted Turner selling the team. He was an iconic owner (and memorably, manager for one game).

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ May 17, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) LOL at what this thread became, and LOL at "2 playoff appearances in 15 years." I guess we will just forget that one of those two won the world series, and that 2006 sported a 90 win team that finished in 3rd, and that there were a few other very near misses with 86-88 win teams. During the first 12 years of this front office, the Sox averaged 85 wins a season. The last three seasons have been the definition of retooling, largely due to LH power hitters named Adam crapping the major league bed in an unforeseen way. I think it's more accurate to say that almost every young hitting prospect we've brought up through the system (along with Viciedo and eventually Ramirez) just didn't get the job done. The players we selected to fill holes (Gillaspie, Flowers, Beckham, DeAza, Avi, Viciedo, etc.) were fundamentally flawed either offensively or defensively. The players we traded brought us largely disappointing returns. And the lack of offense, speed, defense, fundamentals and bullpen caught up with the team and induced a losing environment. Then we had hugely disappointing performances from our free agents last year, other than Robertson. We survived simply because of Eaton, Abreu, Sale, Quintana and Rodon, but those five players weren't enough to counteract all the bad. To blame it all on either coaching/managing, talent or Dunn/LaRoche...it just was a combination of systemic failure across the board.

GreenSox, almost all of those players acquired for the 2005 team were "veterans" or in their prime guys. Not young players, unless you count Uribe from 2004. Contreras, Dye, Iguchi, Pods, Vizcaino, El Duque, Hermanson, AJ Pierzynski...they were all 28-32 year olds. They certainly weren't building a YOUNG team, other than homegrown players like Crede and Rowand. Everett was another veteran. Jenks was a waiver claim. And then you had McCarthy come up at the end of the year and Brian Anderson as the top prospect. Freddy Garcia was technically young, but had a ton of wear and tear on his arm by the time we got him from the M's. Luckily he had his good stuff for 1 1/2 seasons.

QUOTE (Dunt @ May 17, 2016 -> 09:50 AM) You literally just argued on the previous page that he isn't worth a premium prospect. Pick a f***ing lane, guy. I did. He isn't to the White Sox, because we don't have enough of them, and we desperately need Anderson and Fulmer to make it. Adams, for the White Sox, is a "premium prospect," by the way. Now if we still had Frankie Montas (who some would describe as a fringe Top 100 guy but was a premium prospect for the Sox imo), then I think that's fair value for Burns. Adams, fwiw, is supposely in that MILB 100-120 range as well right now. At any rate, I took the time and dig through his major league numbers from 2015 and his minor league numbers...

Speaking of the 2005 team, Aaron Miles (man, his fanboy club was so huge, it turned me into the biggest fan for who we acquired) for Juan Uribe was a complete steal for the White Sox.

Until his last start (everyone's getting crushed by BOS these days), Chris The Dragon Devenski (Brett Myers deal in 2012) definitely looked like he belonged in his first three outings. That's definitely one to keep an eye on. My problem the last couple of years has been "targeting like a predator drone" guys like Nestor Molina and Matt Davidson and not getting the value we should have when we traded two of our former closers...especially if you look at the insane prices teams paid for Giles (not even a closer in HOU) and Kimbrel this past offseason. The Peavy deal was bad, in the sense that we didn't get much production out of him, he totally wet the bed in 2012 when we needed him in key starts against the Tigers, and he took up a boatload of payroll space, being paid like one of the best pitchers in the game when he wasn't even one of the Top 60-75 anymore, at least not on a consistent basis. Of course, the jury's still out on Avi Garcia.

Fine, I was just writing about the Trout/Cubs trade in another thread....when I should have been thinking about Marcus Semien's future as a SS with the A's. So basically, and you've written over and over again about the lack of career WAR coming from late 20's and early 30's (comp round) draft picks...you feel sure that Spencer Adams will produce that number and more for the White Sox? The White Sox haven't had a solid #2 hitter in their line-up for a LONG LONG time, and yet you seem supremely confident a guy who just put up a 2.8 WAR season last year in CF isn't a good player or is overvalued/mediocre. Why? What do you know about Burns and Adams that makes you feel so confident in your assessment/s? If he was on the FA market, that 2.8 WAR would be worth roughly $15-20 million dollars...especially for a player at age 26 and just entering the prime of his career. Is Spencer Adams worth that much if we were to put him up for auction to the rest of the major league teams (which obviously isn't the way it works, but just a hypothetical)???

Now all we have to do is patch up things in our LGBT dispute, so the world can go back to normal and the White Sox back to their winning ways...

Well, Ian Kennedy's been there best overall starting pitcher for 6 weeks, but the point is well taken. That said, the White Sox have a number of issues at 3-5 right now.

QUOTE (Dunt @ May 17, 2016 -> 07:06 AM) You're the only one saying they would need to give up a premium player. The Angels don't need Anderson with Simmons one of the best defenders in all of baseball at that position. So it comes down to would they accept Adams? It's not going to be Johnson/Sanchez and a bunch of suspects...let's put it this way, last year Burns had a 2.8 WAR playing half his games at the O.CO. He's only 26, under control for multiple years and won't cost much for awhile. The average player picked in the late first round/early 2nd round doesn't even put up a 2.8 CAREER WAR usually. So that means he should be theoretically more highly valued to the White Sox than Spencer Adams...not to mention the fact that a 2.5-3ish WAR player would be a 1 1/2 WAR upgrade on what Austin Jackson's on pace to contribute. So while his OPS is in the mid 600's now, that doesn't mean they're just going to give him away. Do I believe Hahn would trade Fulmer for him? No, probably not. But he would be the first player the A's will ask about.

Did you start Ferrari or you're the inspiration for Speed Racer?

Did you start Ferrari or you're the inspiration for Speed Racer?

If I'm the Cubs, I'm dealing Russell, Schwarber and the rest from the minor leagues...one would obviously be Almora to play CF, Torres, two of their best starting pitching prospects in the minors and one more piece (catcher?) I wouldn't give up Bryant. Paying $100 million on the last three years of that deal, it's probably going to be a "fair" price but it's not creating oodles of surplus value, except for teams that can afford $175-225 million payrolls. The Cubs don't need Trout to win, but the Angels can't win a thing by keeping Trout. Heck, they might not even get to the playoffs, which would be really pointless and the same argument we have been making the last couple of years for trading Sale if they're "stuck in the middle" and can't surround him with enough talent to build an upper 80's win total team. Keep in mind, the Angels are still on the hook for the Josh Hamilton and especially Pujols deals, and they have the worst minor league system (by far) in the majors. It's the right move, unless Moreno's going to spend his way quickly back into contention, and that hasn't worked very well as a strategy in LA for quite some time.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ May 17, 2016 -> 08:25 AM) It's amazing that even over the most minor of moves, people find a way not to like it... Some are acting like this is the move the Sox are expecting to put them over the top for a playoff run. Put over the top? Hell no. Possible candidate for the final spot on the bench in the playoffs and a valuable pinch-runner, sure.

We didn't lose the Freddy Garcia (original trade) because it led to a World Series (along with the contract extension). Oh, I forgot Garland for Karchner, that was a classic. It's easy to list all the bad trades: Ritchie for Wells/Fogg/Lowe Billy Koch (although eventually Cotts paid off) Durham for Adkins (and no draft pick comp) Swisher (both) Javy Vazquez (both weren't great) Edwin Jackson (to Toronto) Carl Everett for Majewski and Rauch (although he was World Series-winning DH most of two years) Edwin Jackson for Daniel Hudson Also forgot about Matt Guerrier for Damaso Marte...Marte was the best LH reliever in the majors (arguably, at least top 2-3) for three seasons then started to fall apart in 2005. Here's the thing GreenSox. Look who we've replaced in the past couple of seasons....DeAza/Viciedo/Ramirez/Gillaspie/Flowers/Beckham, not seeing many "losses" there. Because of budgetary constraints, we added a bunch of "proven" but flawed veterans, which has gotten us to first place for most of the first six weeks of the season. We've also discarded John Danks. I can't realistically see what we could have done differently. It's easy to say sign Fowler, Jordan Zimmerman, Maeda, Trumbo....even Ian Desmond, but it's all after the fact. We have to remember that Dave Roberts is playing Thompson every day, he's benefiting from the most favorable possible pitching match-ups. Unless they're going to bench Puig or Crawford, he can't play every day.

Guillen/Hoyt Sosa/Alvarez/Fletcher for Harold Baines Jose Contreras for Esteban Loaiza Freddy Garcia for Reed/Olivo/Morse Matt Thornton for Joe Borchard Danks for McCarthy Pods/Vizcaino for Carlos Lee and freed up money Carlos Quentin for Chris Carter Eaton for Hector Santiago Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd to the White Sox for Freddy Garcia Nellie Fox from the Philadelphia A's

Hawkins had weight issues in high school too, if I remember correctly.

Greg, everyone probably "likes" or sympathizes (on the DEM side) with Sanders and what he's trying to accomplish, and what he represents. We also know realistically he's not well-equipped to be president because of his lack of foreign policy expertise (or interest)...and the fact that he doesn't have the first idea how he'd actually take power away from banks, as it's a complicated process involving Congress, the Constitution, the Federal Reserve and too many other entities to count. He also wants to give away too many free things (sure, free university sounds great until someone has to pay for it and students have to deal with the dilution in the quality of education)...but he hasn't proposed any method to pay for it. Nobody wants to touch the idea of reforming entitlements, privatization (because of all the stock market disasters over the last 30 years) and especially any type of tax hikes on those not in the Top 1%. As soon as leaders threaten to make American companies pay more in corporate taxes (or prevent off-shore havens), those companies will bluff about taking all their business out of the US...so they cave and give them TIF and every other public financing benefit to keep those jobs in their states/districts. I also don't believe he's open to negotiation or compromise on many of these issues, and that's just a reasonable stance to take politically if your goal is ever to accomplish anything. Finally, he went on his honeymoon in Russia in the heart of the Cold War. That will always be used or held against him. So, you're confusing Bernie "bashing" and Hillary "love" because neither one really exists. The majority of Democrats are not left-wing lunatics who want to burn down or destroy the country and its economic fabric. We wish Hillary would be more progressive and less "reactive." In the end, her prescriptions for change will also be small, bite-size ones that have 2/3rd's+ support but don't really lead to a change in the status quo or the fixing of our numerous infrastructure problems. I'm also pretty sure that a lot of Sanders supporters themselves would tell you they have no idea how he would maintain security in the world...other than some vague idea of the US not being the world's policeman and pulling back from lots of their military commitments/spending and being more isolationist (which is also more or less what Trump's been arguing, "prosperity at home (first)!")

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 16, 2016 -> 08:30 PM) 7 GB with over 125 games to play is not teetering on the brink. http://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnis...-seat/84461590/ Quite a few in Detroit would disagree with you...

You're seeing things through KU/Collison-colored glasses, Greg. First of all, you just jinxed OKC and single-handedly changed the betting lines in Vegas. Making a mockery? By winning one important game? If the series is tied 2-2 and they win Game 5 in Oakland again, then your statement will be more supportable. I'm betting two houses in the opposite direction, for the record.