caulfield12

Actually, I feel depressed that I have to live vicariously through other teams in the post-season. I guess a "true fan" of one specific team will just tune out completely, but a lot of us love baseball so much that we still are interested in some way, shape or form. We'd all wish to have the same excitement back from 2005 and 2008 that Cubs fans are experiencing now. Part of it might be jealousy, part of it's simply the joy of experiencing something incomparable to any other feeling that can't be substituted through other sports. All of us can watch the NCAA Tourney, enter the pools (for fun or money), attend a Super Bowl Sunday party, watch night after night of bowl games, but it's just not the same as baseball for me. (That will probably change if Iowa gets through Big 10 play unscathed...but the odds of a national championship coming out of state like Iowa in this present era of college football is basically one in a thousand or million). Actually, I'm sure I annoy some on here when I post anything positive about the Royals, but it's simply another version of being a fan because of the fact that I lived there and attended lots of Sox/Royals games from 1996-2005 and 2006-07 when the Royals were absolutely terrible and would organize protests against the "evil Yankees' Empire" whenever NY came to town. The pure baseball fan in me will always enthusiastically embrace these underdog/small market success stories, along with the Astros, the Rays, the Twins, the A's, the Pirates...and wishes more of the lessons from these organizations would start to permeate the White Sox culture. Or the Mets even (another second or weaker sister in a bigger market), building around a young pitching core and supplementing it with veterans and rookies. And then, finally, I love to watch superstars. Doesn't matter if it's Puig (if you can call him that anymore), or Correa, or Harper or Trout or young phenoms on the pitching side. I'll never forget Dwight Gooden's rookie year, for example, when I would go out of my way to watch him whenever the game was on...usually ESPN or against the Braves or Cubs. I think it's fair to say that with Bryant, Schwarber, Rizzo, Russell and Soler all raking together as a unit, at that age...it's pretty damned impressive. Sure, the wind was blowing out...and they might not become a juggernaut, someone like Arrieta or Lester could easily go down to injury just like Wood and Prior a decade ago, but it surely would be fun to be a Cubs fan right now. Just look at the number of posts in that Cubs/Cardinals thread, there's obviously this huge hunger or desire on the part of Sox fans to have something to cheer for OR, at the very least, against. For our part, the best young hitters we've brought in, like Viciedo, Beckham and Avi Garcia, have all been huge disappointments. You can also add Dunn, LaRoche, Borchard, Anderson, Fields, etc. Not to mention draftees like Jared Mitchell and K.Walker as well (hopefully Thompson, Anderson and Hawkins somehow make it). So thank god for Abreu and Eaton to a lesser extent, or Sox baseball from an offensive standpoint would really be unwatchable.

You know the quotes from the Cardinals about the Cubs getting to the World Series and maybe even being the current favorites to win it all will get player over and over and over again...at least until the 1969 stories about the Amazin' Mets and what happened to the Cubs that year start popping up. Almost thought there was going to be another Bartman implosion with Cruz scoring on the Moss single to give the Cards the lead and/or Rodney losing his command and imploding, but it just wasn't meant to be. Without Molina, Wacha worn down from overwork, Garcia sick and Wainright pitching on fumes...besides that, just not enough offensive firepower coming from anyone other than the Cards' younger hitters like Piscotty. We have to wait until there are just 5 outs left for the Cubs to get in the NLCS apparently.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 06:01 PM) Oh. Thank God I live in Austin. Breaking news: Longhorn Mascot has Leukemia Poor Bevo. Well, at least they saved Strong's job and beat the Sooners when a 17 point underdog, so there's that. I think most Longhorn fans would take that over a healthy Bevo and getting annihilated by the Sooners like they usually did for most of Stoops' tenure.

I'll agree with Tex. This idea of "die-hard" fans looking down their noses at or not embracing the importance of the casual/bandwagon fans is something the White Sox simply can't afford to overlook. Sure, there's the tried and true 80/20 rule....that 80% of the revenues (in terms of season tickets/attendance) comes from the same 20% of your fan base. Definitely, the White Sox have their work cut out for them retaining those season ticket holders (especially the ones who dropped out and then bought back in this past off-season) but also doing whatever they can to get fans out to sample the product with the likelihood of basically every Cubs' game next year being a sellout before the season even starts. That means there will be a lot of casual fans who are shut out of the Cubs' ticket market (availability/expense) and the White Sox will have an opportunity to take advantage if they play their cards right in terms of marketing approach. God knows how many casual/bandwagon fans were driven away by WSI back in the day. Even here at SoxTalk, we can be pretty tough on newcomers/younger fans...with the internet, sometimes we just don't realize how discouraging it is when you're trying to support your favorite team or simply expressing an interest or asking a question and you get attacked for it. Granted, MOST message boards posters have pretty thick skins, but certainly not all (especially younger fans/teenagers).

There's another way of thinking about it. Here in China, the government has been hyping the "investment" of a home and buying into the stock market for the past 12 months in order to drive economic growth back up. When the people who invested in the stock market lost 20-40% of their money and realized the government couldn't actually control the market and guarantee positive or upward results, they quickly became discouraged and refused to put in any more money, to the point where the government had to create wealth funds to buy down and out companies in order to keep them from cratering further. It's all about "trust." Whether you want to fault the White Sox fans or ownership, the fact of the matter is that the relationship is close to frayed if not broken in many cases. It doesn't matter how many good moves you made on "paper" when the results speak for themselves. As we always say they're no "attendance trophy" with the Cubs, there's also no "best off-season" trophy, either. And, of course, a lot of the moves that the White Sox, Padres and Red Sox made (three of the most active teams) blew up completely in their faces. Is that the fault of the fans, or Robin Ventura, or Buddy Bell, or a series of bad trades/acquisitions....lack of investment in Latin America until the last 2-3 seasons, lack of spending on draft/scouting/player development? Hahn? KW? Dave Wilder? White Flag? Union busting and collusion by JR dating back to the strike? Well, it doesn't really matter at this point. What does matter is that the majority of fans no longer trust the front office to create/develop/implement a winning and/or entertaining product, and that, when you look at opportunity cost or cost/benefit analysis, it's simply not worth it for many fans and their families to attend White Sox games. Luckily for the White Sox, they can survive because of the new media deals as well as the favorable lease agreement, but it's getting pretty close to the point where that's all they will be doing if they don't get to the playoffs or at least compete until the final week of the season in 2017.

If they were somehow bringing in both Puig (trade) and Upton, that would be about the only way to reverse all the negative momentum season ticket wise. Or Cespedes/Gordon/Zobrist instead of Upton. But the Padres made the big splashy moves this past season and set themselves back 2-3 years in the process. It would also force another veteran addition in the starting rotation...which would cost yet another $10-12 million (Iwakuma, for example)....or you're forced to deal Montas/Anderson/Adams, which would be even worse. You can't add Puig and another big name offensively and then have Sale, Rodon, Danks, Johnson and ??? as your starting rotation...and the bullpen's short a lefty, Albers (Jones might be able to replace him though) and still not sure you can trust both Duke and Robertson 100% but not much of a choice since they refused to trade him back to the Yankees and start over from scratch.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 01:26 PM) Yogi or Hawk once said, "Momentum is the next game's starting pitcher." Cueto blows (but will make 20 mill a year for 5-6 years like Shark, lol at baseball owners) so get your money back and bet heavily on the Stros. Im pretty sure I would be taking the safer bet and not putting myself in a further hole.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 08:08 AM) Just a few comments in response to yours: 1) It appears that Danks has slowly, but steadily, been gaining strength in his shoulder. His velocity was back to the low 90's and combined with the change up, which he has refined, his second half success may not be a fluke. He has become a better pitcher, out of necessity, during the time that he lost so much velocity. At this point, I think he is a decent bet to be a very solid 4TH or 5TH starter, who can provide a quality start most of the time. Erik Johnson is likely capable of being the 5TH guy. I think Fulmer may follow Sale and Rodon in coming quickly, even if only in the Pen. The Sox are in the enviable position of not really needing to add any pitching. 2) Find a potent clean up hitter to DH, and the offense should be vastly improved over the pathetic output they got from that spot in the order last season. 3) Don't exercise the $10 Million option on Alexei, and find a slick fielding SS, who can do a credible job in the "2 hole" of the order. They don't need an All Star there, but someone who can hit behind the runner, lay down a bunt and be a plus fielder. I'd prefer a veteran, as Anderson could be ready soon. 4) Give Olt a shot at 3RD. He is a capable defender with huge power potential. 5) Leave Flowers behind the plate, as the pitching staff seems to flourish with him there, and the pitchers like throwing to him. 6) If Thompson can beat out Avi in RF, the outfield defense should be fine with Melky in LF, Eaton in CF and Trayce in RF. Infield defense would be fine with Olt at 3RD, a new good defensive SS and Sanchez at 2ND. 7) In conclusion, I see two holes, not 4. Just get that big bat to DH and a good defender at SS, who can hit in the 2 hole. What's wrong with that plan? That SS is not on the market right now, that we know of... Cespedes, Upton, Chris Davis, Heyward and Gordon (the latter two not clean-up types anyway) are going to cost $100 million and up. Good luck getting JR to shell out after this year. Next, counting on Flowers, Thompson, Olt and almost a 100% healthy team again next year is dubious at best. Foolish, at worst. Those three, along with Sanchez, are lucky to be bench players on a real playoff team.

If the Rangers had a healthy Yu Darvish...that would be one thing. Clayton Kershaw is the one who really needs to prove something tonight or his name will be up there with ARod and Bonds in the post-season disappearing acts list. When your choices are Colby Lewis and Derek Holland, with both having 5+ and 6+ ERAs over the last six weeks, not much to work with...

The Rangers were expected to lose...whereas Toronto is everyone's AL World Series favorite. Stroman has a ton of pressure on him, with Price mostly out of the picture strangely. The Astros had a 4-1 lead in Game 2 early and a 6-2 lead in the 8th as well yesterday. Everyone in the world knows they are lacking flamethrowers in the pen. Otoh, Rasmus and especially Correa have been huge.

Thome not under consideration at all? Guess he doesn't speak Spanish.

Well, after the WC game last year....not unlike the White Sox the final week of 2005....they just put it into cruise control. The situation here with a do or die game following the high of yesterday is a bit different. Cueto wasn't very good for the Royals, and Ventura has been off this year compared to last postseason when he was the rock of the rotation as Shields faltered. Madson isn't Davis in the 8th, either. Duffy's not even assured of being the 4th starter in a seven game series. It's easy to say the Royals have everything in their favor, but a loss wouldn't be shocking either.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Oct 13, 2015 -> 07:25 AM) Sorry, but you really can't make that statement as of today. Maybe after a series of shrewd offseason moves, perhaps, but not now. If you'll recall, we just finished third to last in the league, thanks to the miserably worst offense and almost as equally abysmal defense. There is nothing "solid" at all there at the moment, save Sale, Abreu, Q, Eaton, and Robertson. Fairly steep drop off after those fellas. Rodon, based on progression the second half...but still a work in progress. http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2...ml#incart_river I really believe a big part of the White Sox problem has been similar...veterans like Dunn, Shark, Rios, Peavy, LaRoche, Keppinger, Bonifacio, Downs, Cabrera, Ramirez, Beckham, etc., bringing down the atmosphere of the clubhouse. The Indians had to deal with Bourn, Swisher, Moss...didn't really turn the corner until those guys were jettisoned.

Have the Indians even given official permission yet for him to talk to the Sox?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 12, 2015 -> 09:53 PM) A few comments. ... • Down by four runs, the Royals were dead, I thought. KC fans on Twitter were all over Yost and Rios. • I will give Rios credit. He got the first of the six singles (one was not a single but error at ss but it took a funny hop on the certain DP). • Hosmer goes from s*** to stroking a key single then a huge HR for insurance? Pretty impressive. • Royals overcome the weird call at 3B on Gore? Impressive. I will say this. The Royals' comeback proves most fans complaints are just people blabbering at the mouth. All the Royals critics when the team was down four runs. One guy wrote Ned should be fired for not having a sense of urgency the last month. One guy was incensed that Ned was playing Rios. Many were mad at Rios. Some were furious about the Cueto trade, saying thanks Dayton, Cueto did nothing and now the Royals are out several young players. Blah blah blah ... it's like Al Davis said, "Just Win Baby." And when Roy Williams was at kansas he said: "The best/only way to shut everybody up is to win. Win and people have to shut their frickin mouths." Who else should they play? Gomes? Dyson? Paolo Orlando? Certainly not Gore, he's less of a hitter than Dyson even. It's hard to have a sense of urgency when you clinch early....look at the Dodgers, the Pirates, the Cardinals, etc. the fact is every team that wins in the playoffs gets a huge break or two. The White Sox must have had 5-6 in 2005, probably more. The Royals still have Zimmer, Almonte, Mondesi, Ashe Russell and Bubba Starling finally started to live up to his high billing as well. It's not like trading Odorizzi, W. Myers and Montgomery killed them. They'll have plenty of money coming off the books from Gordon and Guthrie's deal, although they're likely to pick up Medlen's $10 million 2016 option. And Roy Williams never won a title at KU. As far as the Cueto trade, and Zobrist, the A's made the exact same types of moves last season...and the best player that they traded away, Addison Russell, is going to be an everyday SS for a decade. It's hard to complain when they have the best overall combined record in the AL over the last three years.

Maybe they can hire Dan Jennings, haha.

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Oct 12, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) Depends if you want to include the Leach coaching tree. Art Briles, Baylor Dana Holgorson, WVU Kliff Kingsbury, TTU Sonny Dykes, Cal Ruffin McNeil, ECU Others like Lincoln Riley, Sonny Combie, Seth Littrell, etc are OC's at BCS schools (OU, TCU, UNC) and will get head coaching opportunities soon. There's also Gundy, I forgot about him. Honestly, I'm not even sure what happened with Josh Heupel, he was an assistant at one point. Haven't followed the program as close this past decade since I started living abroad.

I don't know about $75 million, but it would be at least $50 million added to put them in a position to legitimately compete again next year. Let's say $20 million for Heyward/Cespedes/Upton, another $10-12 million for a starting pitcher (assuming you can't realistically hope to compete relying on Erik Johnson from the get-go)...I haven't looked at the contracts coming off the books (Keppinger/Shark/Bonifacio, etc.) enough to know the exact numbers, but we probably have automatic increases in enough contracts so that's another $5-7.5 million you have to account for. Already then, you're up $35-40 million or so, and still have at least one hole in the bullpen, 3B, SS (let's just assume in this scenario they keep Alexei one last year), 2B, C, RF and DH. Let's assume we have no choice but to keep LaRoche, so you still have big holes in RF, 2B, 3B and C offensively, defensively or both. You can't shore up all of those positions, but realistically you have a bigger impact guy at one (maybe you acquire Todd Frazier via trade, for example, and add his salary to the payroll) or split the money across 2 of the 4 remaining ones. Since we all agree Sanchez is fine as the 9th hitter at 2B, that leaves RF and C unaddressed, so you're still talking a terrible bottom of the order to go with a much-improved 1-6 and you've basically spent $45-50 million to get there. Maybe another $3-5 million or so goes to a veteran reliever (LH), and you've got to replace Beckham, Bonifacio and possibly Soto (Saladino will likely be one of the bench guys, along with Thompson/Shuck). $75 million is so far removed from reality, there's no point in discussing it. $50 million likely is too, unfortunately.

Apparently the governor of Texas sent out a premature (or someone in his office/staff) tweet and it ended up jinxing both the Astros and the Rangers at nearly the same time. Oh, it's McHugh vs. Cueto, not Kazmir. Cueto pretty much refused to go on 3 day's rest Monday, so he has all the pressure on him to finally perform on the big stage, even though in many ways the pressure is all on the Astros to not choke away the series after coming so close to having it won in their home park. Ten years since post-season baseball in Houston. I think we all vividly remember the last post-season play there...

Jim Thome was the last really positive veteran addition who made a big impact on the team...his loss surely cost Ozzie the post-season in 2010 (Kotsay/Jones fiasco, which followed the Erstad fiasco....actually, Andruw was fine for his role.)

It would be pretty hilarious if Game 5 was in Houston and creative fans could again try the Johnny Cueto taunt to rattle him...alas, not to be.

I'm not sure which comeback was crazier. Seemed the Royals were simply dead this year...last season, anything seemed possible the way they played the second half. Winning games like this can carry teams a long way like it did for that stretch until they ran into the Bumgarner buzzsaw in the World Series. The Royals are just lucky. Doing it two years in a row...? Hmmm...

And please don't bet the house on Cueto at home Wednesday, haha.

I hope you didn't bet that house, Greg. If you did, don't jump off the roof. Would be Davis' first two inning save of the year. Did it four times last year. Young players on the Astros coming unhinged, throwing equipment around out of frustration. This is where you need an experienced manager with a steady hand who doesn't flinch.

The crazy thing is going from making plans for flights/tickets to Toronto or Dallas one minute...the next, you're staring playoff elimination in the face with Cueto pitching at home versus Kazmir. KC will be more jacked up than Wrigley if that happens. Swinging from Houston/Texas grudge match to KC/StL possibilities for a World Series in a matter of less than thirty minutes. Royals' starters with a 6.27 era this series in four games.