caulfield12

That was almost guaranteed as soon as Ball 4 crossed home plate. Now have to limit the damage and stop the inning from spinning into a crooked number.

The most concerning thing isn't Coats but you'd like to think Abreu would stop expanding the zone and have a better plate appearance than that (after homering)...the last couple of years, he'd find a way to make contact, especially without Verlander in the high 90's. Q has to get through Cabrera here now.

Is Leury Garcia really hitting 5th? Is that a misprint?

White Sox Baseball for the last month. Now, the main question is how Q responds to the adversity. Has to be mentally draining not to be up at least 2-0 or 3-0 and have to pitch with more stress. The way the Tigers have been fouling off pitches, you'd almost think they had a spy signalling pitches to batters.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 07:49 AM) Why wouldn't JR authorize taking on the Braun contract? And you're probably right that the Brewers wouldn't take that package, although I'd argue that the Sox taking on Braun's entire contract might be enticing to them. Back problems are always a concern and not having a DH spot as a backup option is pretty risky. Given how he's produced so far, I think they will be very motivated to move him while there a few teams still interested and willing to take a gamble on him. 1) Length and total dollars of contract, especially after adding Shields 2) PED/see Melky Cabrera 2015 season 3) Buying high on Braun when it wouldn't be warranted based on his last couple of seasons 4) We still need to prioritize finding a LH bat over RH 5) NL player going to AL often backfires, at least for Sox recently 6) Buying as high as we possibly can...last year, Brewers would have had to send money along with....now they can ask for good prospects and probably get them. 7) Braun's age the last couple of years of the deal are scary http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/...ing3/ryan-braun Over the 3 prior seasons, Braun's a sub 800 OPS hitter against RHP. Very good against lefties, but that's not our biggest pressing issue.

Gomes, McCann/Salty, Perez...when healthy, all much better than our current combination. We just don't have much upside left to squeeze out. Otoh, Gomes in CLE and McCann can and should play much better based on their past results and their ages. Gomes was excellent two years ago before his injury. That's about two less years since the last time Avila was feared by opposing pitchers.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 07:46 AM) Free agency looks weak this off season and sox have excess cash so that makes great sense to pick up that contract at $9M per. In a month they can sign another Tatis rather easily Johnson had no value and the padre hope is that the NL and that park is what is needed. I continue to hold out hope for the bullpen. This offense is bad. In the end, the white sox are building for next two years. In reality, their best opportunity to win is next season. They're already (this year) looking at replacing their catchers (well, Avila at least), replacing Avi Garcia/DH and filling a couple of holes in the bullpen and improving the bench just to have a chance to be competitive in the 2nd half. After 2017, you will likely be looking to replace Frazier, Lawrie and Cabrera. Unless Abreu wakes up anytime soon, the only "guaranteed" 3+ WAR offensive player on the roster looks to be Adam Eaton. There are no catchers on the imminent horizon, although that's true around most of baseball at the moment. So that leaves you Eaton, Tim Anderson, maybe Abreu, maybe Saladino and potentially 5 positions that you need to find replacements for on the FA market or internally. Unless we're expecting Coats, Hayes, Delmonico, Jacob May and Trey M. to all make it and become at a minimum 2+ war players, there just isn't that much position player talent in our system right now at AA/AAA. And unless we're drafting more college pitchers in the first 2 rounds, it's hard to expect any of those players to impact the 2016 and 2017 rosters. Sure, with the rotation and Robertson/Jones, you can say things are looking really good for the next two years, as long as Shields can have a 4.5-4.75 ERA or less and eat up innings and Rodon's closer to the 3.25-3.50 ERA pitcher we saw in the second half than our current version who prefers to pitch at a hittable 92-93 MPH when he can easily throw 95-97. Maybe the answer's in Korean, Japan or Cuba and we just don't know it yet.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jun 5, 2016 -> 07:36 AM) There are a small but vocal group of posters that only seem to show up to gloat that the team is failing. They represent about 80% of the complaints to mods that we receive. It's anyone's choice to follow a team they hate and which makes them feel horrible (although I wonder why). But when they are trolling other members it gets looked at. And there is a difference between feeling horrible when the team doing poorly and posting that and gloating that the team is doing horrible and that poster feels great that they were proven right about what a horrible team it is. The posters that genuinely seem to feel better when the team is doing worse really bring the site down even further than it naturally would. I don't think most of the fans who would like to see improvements from the front office and marketing/public relationship and talent evaluation side of things are so much hating on the team as expressing frustration...on one hand, all team message boards and especially game threads serve as an outlet for that. I bet long-time Cubs' fans are even more annoyed when all of a sudden a bunch of bandwagon fans show up and just post these excessively rosy and optimistic pie-in-the-sky proclamations about how they're guaranteed to win 3-5 World Series titles and that Epstein and Maddon are demigods who barely touch the ground when they walk on the hallowed Wrigley grass and every team's superstar franchise player could be obtained by the Cubs with a package of 4-6 Top 12-30 prospects. There's a difference between being realistic/pragmatic and ALWAYS seeing the worst side in every situation. I'm 98% sure between 2003 and 2010 the amount of complaints about negativity were much more limited. And it's also frustrating to see fans constantly/consistently receive blame when the White Sox have made so many just DUMB decisions financially that it's hard not to start questioning their judgment instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt. Have they earned the benefit of the doubt, really? Then you have another problem. The issues with this team over the last 3 seasons have been so endemic/pervasive...and yet there's a certain amount of frustration that nobody is really accountable for all of the failure. It's not Ventura's fault because managers don't really matter. It's not Hahn's fault because of KW. It's not KW's fault because of JR. Around and around it goes. If there was a reason to feel encouraged or to believe the "worm had turned" finally, it was those first 33 7/9th's games. To have that rug so quickly be pulled back from underneath our feet, to the point where we're now closer to 4th than 1st place after commanding the division and entire AL a scant 4 weeks ago, it's just frustrating.

https://weather.com/weather/hourbyhour/l/USMI0229:1:US 2-5 PM Eastern look like a mess...not sure if they wouldn't be better off having a couple more offdays to regroup in Chicago, but the last time they had a Thursday and Monday off consecutive (around the Yankees' series) it didn't turn out to have a beneficial effect. Going to be interesting to see what decision they make with the pitching staff because next Tuesday's game. Gonzalez down to AAA doesn't quite seem fair (as he has options which Latos doesn't). However, Purke or Sands to AAA with Latos becoming the long man would be my decision. Then again, the need for a long man is now further mitigated by having one of MLB's best innings eaters, leaving "insurance" for the 5th starter's spot and Rodon the main reason to carry someone who can give you 3-4 innings in relief, spot start for a DH and spare the rest of the pen from exposure.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...te-sox-rotation ESPN also plays up the "preserving the bullpen" aspect of the move...keeping arms fresh in the second half, which will be like another trade if the White Sox can bring back a healthy Petricka and not burn through Putnam/Albers/Jones/Robertson too much. He does, however, come as advertised in terms of his ability to eat up innings. According to ESPN Stats & Info, Shields is the only pitcher to exceed 200 innings in each of his past nine seasons. Last season, his first with the Padres, he finished with 202 1/3 innings. Shields has also thrown 22 complete games, which is tied with the Detroit Tigers' Justin Verlander for the sixth-most thrown during the span in which he has been in the big leagues (2006).

Well, between those two, Scott Carroll, Purke and Mr. Kahnle...they might prefer the relative safety of Charlotte at the moment. And it's going to be getting even more interesting if they send Gonzalez back down for really no good reason, other than the fact they control his option/s whereas they don't with Mat Latos (as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong).

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/trad...hnson-tatis-jr/ BA on the deal.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 08:52 PM) I was one of the biggest advocates here for getting Fowler or Desmond in addition to Jackson when Cespedes fell through. I know you're pissed off right now but you really have no facts to back up your speculations. Bruce could mash his way to 45 HR here. That comp pick could turn out to be an all star in 2019. I'm not happy about the team right now too but I see no use in getting ruffled panties. On a good note, I did brush my teeth this morning. Yay, me. True enough, but you always have to think in terms of probability or likelihood. We could get Jared Mitchell or Mike Trout with that draft pick...but more than likely that player contributes 3 war or less during a potential MLB career. As far as Bruce hitting 45 homers, it would be nice to see...since they're almost now forced to double-down (once again) and at that bat because what's the point in adding Shields if it's just for a single run in 2017? The problem is they're whittling the farm system down to merely kindling, but Hahn's pretty much putting his job on the line now. 2015, he could survive that miscalculation, but more missteps and, since they continue to back Ventura, who do you think's going to take the blame next? Self-preservation says Hahn/KW will have to fire Ventura and try that FIRST before the pitchforks and torches get too exuberant for blood higher up in the hierarchy.

The ball was hit almost exactly between them and I'm sure it was loud enough that Coats couldn't hear Shuck clearly...and also have a hard time imagining Shuck being as demonstrative or as commanding in that situation as he needed to be, especially considering the fact that Coats was the one who actually ended up making the play. Those split second decisions...that type of collision can happen with an infielder/outfielder or catcher/infielder just as easily. It wasn't about the manager, any more than Schwarber's injury was Fowler's fault or all the Royals injuries are attributable to Ned Yost. It happens. It's sports.

Well, at least you moderated your stance from them finishing behind the Twins. That would be a cataclysmic collapse from 23 7/9ths - 10 and the 2nd best team in MLB.

Maybe Shields coming back and beating the Royals will jump start this team...maybe! Of course, if they crush him, it could have the effect of further exacerbating the malaise and bad play.

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:51 PM) Completely agree, on the fact that the farm system has to be the foundation. They have to pour more money into scouting and player development, instead of saving it for the splashy move at the deadline. Go into the season with a sound team, and add to it when a) it makes sense to, and b) with a player that it makes sense to add. I have argued with buddies of mine that they should be going more for guys like Pineda and Bauer, talented guys who are cost controlled, have ace quality stuff and need a change of scenery, rather than high priced aging talent. Also, when you're not trying to win, try to identify free agents who have had down years and flip them on a bounce back year for either a failed guy with lots of talent that needs a change of scenery or talented guys at the lower levels of the minors. See Contreras, Freddy Garcia (although the price at the time seemed extremely high), Danks, Floyd, Jenks, Santos, Thornton and Marte, etc. For hitters, the 2004-2005 offseason still reigns as the best example, as a lot of those guys like AJ and Dye were still relatively close to their primes. Then that 2007-2008 cycle adding Beckham, Viciedo, Alexei, Floyd, Danks and Carlos Quentin. Everything else has been hit and miss. Steps forward and backwards. Rios and Peavy are perfect examples. The majority of their free agent acquisitions have killed them, especially LaRoche, Swisher and Dunn (in 2011). Javy looked great on paper but just wasn't a winning pitcher...sometimes that talent just doesn't translate to wins or good chemistry. More than anything, when you're constantly blending in players from other organizations...you never have cohesiveness and continuity, always searching and experimenting to try to find that magical winning combination but never quite having the resources to get the job done effectively due to the lack of revenue generation caused by the fans' well-earned distrust for and with the organization.

The same reason the team goes from Spring Training ending to the regular season and they always have 2-3 days to get everything organized for their big move... Just common sense. Why would a starter who won't pitch until Tuesday and already knows the AL so well need to rush to get to DET to watch Quintana pitch against Verlander? To be the new head cheerleader and team motivator/performance psychologist? If anything, it would completely smack of desperation if they pushed him to come fast. Introduce him to the media in Chicago on the offday Monday or more likely Tuesday early afternoon. MLB rules and regulations say exactly how much time the players are entitled to before they have to report, anyway. Not a White Sox policy, it was a union-negotiated one.

Elgin, and this is where you're specifically right here. Hahn's not a talent evaluation and development guy. Not his forte. It's the only reason Preller has a job still in SD, that's his major strength, minor leagues....talent evaluation and development. That has to be the foundation of a team like the White Sox with a middle 40-60% payroll but definitely not one who will be able to spend more than "average" until a new broadcast rights deal in 2019. Look at what he did in Texas while there: Odor, Profar, Leonys Martin, Odubal Herrera (now with Philly), Mazara (ROY), Chi Chi Rodriguez and a slew of other minor leaguers that gave them the depth to trade for Hamels. http://padrespublic.com/sacrifice-bunt/aj-...tten-strengths/ AJ Preller's Forgotten Strengths

Indians=Lindor, Ramirez, Carrasco, Danny Salazar, Carlos Santana, Jonny Gomes (Brazil) Royals=Escobar, Perez, Ventura, Herrera, Orlando (originally with Sox), Carlos Cuthbert (Nicaragua), Mondesi, Jr. We just can't come close to competing when the Tigers can buy anyone they want and the two best teams in the division are killing us and continue to kill us developing Latin American players. It's that simple. We were fortunate with Alexei, Abreu and Q, but missed badly on Viciedo and Avi Garcia. But hey, we're good at producing utility infielders. Carlos Sanchez and Eduardo Escobar. So there's that.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 06:08 PM) E Johnson is major league pitcher, albeit one Cooper didn't like (and it's Cooper's world). Tatis is/was the best young international player org I see why the Sox aren't going all in on international players, unlike winning organizations...they don't value them. Meanwhile Williams and Hahn continue to employ Ventura and Cooper. Cooper also didn't like McCarthy and Hudson for mechanical reasons. That said, I'm still pissed he didn't have a clue how to help Liriano in 2012 after watching him so many freaking time since 2006 and the next year the Pirates' coaching staff came up with a very modern and effective strategy to get the most out of both him and Volquez. Then again, in the NL, Cueto and Shark look like Cy Young candidates when they were terrible in the Central.

Micker Adolfo is more likely to be a stud than Tatis, and the success rate from those signings is a LOT lower than the ROI in free agency, which is still pretty terrible. The last time we developed Latin American players (other than Carlos Sanchez), you have to go back nearly 20 years to Ordonez and Carlos Lee. All the Cubans came ready to play, Alexei, Abreu, Contreras and El Duque. We didn't "develop" Jose Quintana, but they do deserve credit for tracking him with the Mets and Yankees in their minor league systems.

And yeah, I'm usually doom and gloom too, but I have no problems with the trade...partially because I know what Shields has meant to the Rays and Royals from following those two teams closely. The ONLY problem I would have is if they don't address the OTHER obvious, elephant in the room hitting problems...and maybe find a replacement for Avila if he continues to have 0 homers and 2 RBI's into July. One more BIG bat (preferably with an 850+ OPS split against RHP) and a return to health from Jackson and Cabrera in the line-up changes things a lot. Obviously, no 2014-15 Abreu, they're still not going anywhere. Sale, Quintana and Rodon even feel like concerns right now, especially Chris and Carlos, and Jose in the sense that you don't want him to get down on himself again losing all these 1-2 run games with negligible run support. If Anderson and Fulmer are for real, then they just might be okay...not sure about 2016, but going into 2017, they have a shot. It just sucks we've given up so much ground winning the division feels like a pipe dream since we've shown no signs of being able to beat any of our divisional opponents other than the Twins.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 05:48 PM) Youre not alone in your stance. His Bs and obvious agenda has bugged me for years, even when I was just a daily lurker and didn't post. He's one of the best five posters on this board, and he knows his stuff about non-baseball related matters as much as anyone here. It doesn't matter what someone's opinions are, or it shouldn't, as long as they are well-informed. And his always have been. If you went back about 5 years, you'd see guys like Balta or Lip were pretty consistently optimistic and hopeful. These last 4-5 seasons have taken a lot out of MANY White Sox fans, which have been reflected in the tv and radio ratings.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 4, 2016 -> 04:33 PM) And this is one of the two reasons I haven't been posting. Because if you're not a fan of this team, its now personal for too many people. Agreed, 100%. Being compelled to feel a certain way when when your heart and head tells you the opposite just doesn't sit well with me. It's like the more someone tries to convince you that your argument is wrong, the more hardened your position becomes. Having followed the White Sox for most of my 46 years on this planet, that Texas game and this past weekend against the Royals are hard to recover from...you need to have a really good manager, not just an "average/run of the mill" one. And it's not just one specific decision by Ventura, it's a serious of increasingly questionable decisions that have added up over 4+ years. There just haven't been many tangible signs of improvement in his managing, the first time you have hope that the worm has turned, then you have this complete collapse that just sucks the wind out of your sails and makes you want to give up on baseball for a while just for your sanity's sake. We keep hearing managers don't matter...especially the sabermetricians, but they hate discussing something that's not statistically quantifiable beyond something idiotic like pythagorean wins and losses.