caulfield12

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:00 PM) Good deal for both teams. Cubs get their closer and Royals get a guy under control for 4 years with all star potential. I thought Soler was going to be the best of the Cubs prospects (Kris Bryant has already ended that discussion) but he seems to be injury prone. If he can stay on the field and get more consistent then the Royals win the deal long term but I think the Cubs can probably care less. They get a top 5 closer in MLB and quite honestly Soler was expendable and didn't seem to be much of a factor in their Championship season this past year. He'll get to play everyday in KC and will probably have much less pressure on him there than he did with the Cubs. All-Star potential is probably pushing it at this point with Soler. Plus, they're sacrificing a lot of defense in that cavernous outfield for OBP/homers, if all goes well. He's clearly a better player than Avi Garcia, but he's closer to Avi than an All-Star. Staring at losing Cain, Hosmer, Moustakas in the face (and Morales already out the door)...the Royals have to generate power somewhere. And who knows how long Salvy Perez (despite his relatively young age) and Alex Gordon hold together physically.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:41 PM) Kyle Schwarber has 8 career hits vs. lefties and he is highly regarded. And how many homers/XB in how many at-bats against RHP? If the biggest problem the Cubs have is what to do with Schwarber against lefties, they'll be just fine. Plus, Jon Jay...despite being LHed, had pretty decent numbers against LHP. And they've also got Bryant, Contreras and Baez to balance out Heyward/Schwarber/Rizzo.

So the Astros are now "payroll encumbered" because of all their moves so far this offseason? Luhnow isn't dumb. But, since we now have the international cap back in place....by all means, send some money along and pry an extra piece like Mike Cameron's kid away. Tucker, fwiw, still has a long road, saw him play in Quad Cities this year and he looked more like Ryan Sweeney than a 30 homer guy. It's going to take him another 2 1/2 years or so, but he has that pretty left-handed stroke that everyone covets and the power SHOULD develop with that frame. If they do target Maitan, it will be interesting if we ever get a read on what the Sox scouts felt about the likes of Benintendi, Devers, Robles, etc. Probably we'll never know. Just leery of projecting players that are in A ball and below. We've heard so much about the Latin American pipeline and all the hype over Micker Adolfo, and he hasn't even come close to making it to Winston-Salem. And, in the end, it also comes down to confidence in your scouting. It's easy to make mistakes. Look at Viciedo, Soler, Rusney Castillo...and where Puig has fallen, since 2013-14. Abreu isn't the same hitter he debuted as. Yet we now have the latest Cuban phenom in Moncada. And, not only talent, but the ability to deal with adversity or make adjustments instead of just falling in love with workouts and physical tools. We've seen Tim Anderson make adjustments at every step up the ladder, but also a plethora of guys like Brian Anderson/Beckham/Fields/Viciedo/Jared Mitchell/Avi Garcia failed to master the mental side of the game and how to deal with failure or injuries.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:12 PM) I cannot believe this return. Giolito is the #3 prospect in the entire game. Lopez #13. Dunning was the Nat's first rounder just last year. All of that for Adam freaking Eaton. Thank God for advanced stats showing that the slappy, oft-injured outfielder was a +6 fWAR last year. Also, you know Dusty Baker loves his grind factor. The Sox will wake up tomorrow with the top system in all of baseball and three huge assets left in Quintana, Frazier, and Robertson to deal off. The future is much brighter today than it was 2 days ago. Robertson has to prove he's 100% and get his crisp cutter and confidence back....then you deal him, rinse and repeat (theoretically) with Nate Jones. Frazier, Abreu and Cabrera...you wait and listen, but it's hard to imagine Melky being worth a whole lot more than dumping that salary, opening up playing time (lowering the team record, likely, for a May/Engel/Tilson/Avi Garcia/Coats) and creating more and more salary flexibility. Then again, look at the money going to Morales, Beltran, Carlos Gomez...a 2-3 month rental will probably fetch more than selling him off now, but, then again...you save an extra $6-8 million if you act now. And it's not like they can turn around and invest that money into going over the cap on international prospects at this point. Maybe they can find a bargain or two in Korea, Japan or Cuban from the "older/veteran" guys. Then a couple of "scrap heap/rehab" guys like Holland...and hope to replicate the success with Loaiza/Humber/M.Gonzalez and flip them (ala Cubs).

QUOTE (HBaines03 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:50 PM) I understand the reason for the rebuild and I think you trade whomever if it is a quality return. My concern is more if these prospects will be prepped and directed in the best manner possible to reach their potential and make the majors. My concern is if the major league coaching staff is up to the task of getting the best out of these players once they make the club. It was just 2-3 years ago we looked like a very talented, young cost controlled group and saw very weak results. I think our coaching staff did a very poor job of getting the best out of the group of men they had available. Thoughts? When did we look very talented? 2012? 2014 the first month with Abreu and Avi Garcia? We all know the story with Viciedo and Beckham. I'm just not sure what other "talented" players we can point to (internally developed) unless you want to go with Semien and Thompson. Looking back on everything, the Danks injury played a pretty large part in the downfall of a franchise that simply can't afford to carry more than one or two bad contracts. The string of bad to terrible free agent signings. Not getting anything back for guys like Crain, Floyd, DeAza, Alexei Ramirez, etc., when they had opportunities to sell them. The "best" pitcher developed after the Quintana discovery in 2012 (along with Nate Jones)...probably you're talking Hector Santiago and Erik Johnson. The cupboard has been completely barren, other than Tim Anderson/Rodon and this recent draft.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:58 PM) His fastball was topping out in the high 80's when he signed at age 18. He can now reach triple digits and sustainable high 90's. Although in the second half of this season, Giolito's FB was 92-96 and he got pounded with that pitch (at the MLB level, at least). Before that, yeah...upper 90's. Interestingly, he was quite effective with the rest of his off-speed repertoire, which is the key to any "stuff" pitcher moving from thrower to pitcher. Lopez actually passed Giolito in the eyes of many observers and throws almost as hard. Hopefully Cooper can figure out a way to smooth out Giolito and Spencer Adams, who almost becomes forgotten now after being one of the few gems of the system a year ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationa...m=.28b61e7603b6 White Sox were offered Giolito, Robles, Lopez and Dunning for Sale, turned it down. Obviously, Hahn was targeting the combination of Moncada/Kopech/Basabe as more than worth the tradeoff for Robles. He clearly wasn't going to get Moncada+ for Quintana or Eaton. Rizzo and Hahn both risking their careers on Adam Eaton...who was the best player that Hahn traded for, as well. It's an even bigger risk because Eaton will have to play CF for at least two years in Washington with Harper in RF. As someone said, if not for an unknown 915th overall, 30th round pick in Hector Santiago...he, Sale and waiver claim Q might end up saving the franchise. Ironic, because Lopez was signed for $17,000 himself out of the Dominican. Rotation is currently Q (for now), Rodon, Gonzalez, Shields and Fulmer/Beck/???. In addition to those guys, you've now got 4-6 guys with reportedly top of the rotation stuff in Giolito/Lopez with Kopech/Burdi/Hansen/Adams the next step down, at Winston-Salem or Birmingham depending on whether they're starting (all three SHOULD be). You've also got Kopech/Lopez/Burdi/Hansen on the "upswing," and Giolito/Adams with some questions about their velocity. You've got another set of "interesting" arms in Stephens, Danish, Guerrero that look more like pen pieces right now...and of course, Diaz and finally Dunning, who has great control and is expected to move quite quickly up the ladder as an advanced college pitcher.

Now Renteria must be experiencing deja vu. The big question is who manages the next White Sox playoff team. Cleveland won't be able to hold their window open for more than two more years, three tops. And we're far ahead of the rest of the division in jumpstarting in two days...not to mention the pot of gold tv revenues that no other divisional team will have access to. This young team will be a much easier sell than the 2013-2016 version.

Adam Eaton was so great he never managed to make it to the SoxTalk banner.

Just imagine if Abreu reverts to 2014 form...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:56 PM) With all of the position players out there, there are plenty of smarter deals. I have littered multiple threads with all kinds of names that made more sense for the White Sox. A deal with Washington can include a Gio or Lopez, but you have got to bring back a Robles too, even if means you take less than a Dunning at the 3rd player. At the end of the Red Sox deal, don't bring back a reliever, bring back a position player of some sort. For Adam Eaton? Now you're really grasping at straws. And Basabe is a position player at the back end. This feels like arguing just to argue.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:52 PM) They still acquired Arrieta developed Kyle Hendricks. Because they didn't focus on pitching, they had to spend a truckload of money for Jon Lester, and hope a guy like John Lackey doesn't suck. Yes, they won the World Series, but they're either going to have to give a truckload of money to Arrieta or trade some of that position player depth for... you guess it, pitching. Like what just happened today. Soler for Wade Davis. It goes both ways dude. The Sox can trade pitching for position players in the future, as well as sign big time position player free agents. That half billion was worth it just for Heyward's motivational speech in Game 7, lol. Bryce Harper, Kershaw and Trout are $400 million players by themselves. The game is changing. The only way we can ever make a free agency run again is clearing the decks.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:43 PM) We're probably picking what top 5? top 10 next year? That sounds like position player time for me. #11, then Top 3 in 2018, Top 5-8 in 2019...ballpark guesses If Moncada and Giolito both play like capable, we'll improve in a hurry. Let's not forget KC is in decline, Twins are foundering and Detroit is also on the back end of their run.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:40 PM) Which we have not done in any sense. We still don't have any position players. And to think I was the one jumped for jumping to conclusions, lol. You trade Q, Jones, Frazier, Cabrera and draft the next two years in the Top 3 ( and everyone RAVED about Hostetler, right?) and then you also don't sign a position player after 2018, then it's time to start complaining. Not to mention we still have Abreu and can start peddling fliers like Gonzalez or Holland while we wait a year on the pitching to develop. Hell, maybe Lawrie, Davidson, Saladino or Garcia take off...or Engel, Coats or May surprise with no pressure on them.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:38 PM) If they trade Q to Houston you dont think they'll get position players? Or the next two drafts?

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:33 PM) I think it was close to that after yesterdays trade where the Sox probably acquired 3 of their top 5. Now they have 5 of their top 7. To me its: 1. Moncada 2. Giolito 3. Lopez 4. Kopech 5. Collins 6. Fulmer 7. Basabe Tilson was 5 two days ago. Now we have the likes of Burdi, Hansen, Adams as back end guys and May/Engel/Trey/Adolfo out of the Top Ten.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:26 PM) Dude I'm as excited as I've been in years. To me it feels like the early 90s again. Sox are loading up on young talent and if they can get a few studs out of like they did then it will set them up for a great run in the next decade. I get that you're disappointing to see favorites go but ripping the bandaid off has long been overdue on this roster. Same...if you can't be excited about Moncada and Giolito in 2017, not to mention Anderson and Rodon...just don't know what can be said. Returning the same team with say, Carlos Gomez or Beltran...would accomplish what exactly? Sure, some fans are going to be pissed off and pout, but this is the most exciting since post 2008 with Danks/Floyd/Alexei/Beckham/Viciedo and MVP Quentin (almost), 2003-2006, #1 farm system in 2000 and then the two waves of talent in the late 80s and late 90s that turned into playoff teams. We're interesting and relevant again. New manager, new team leaders finally.

Gives you some idea of the desperation to win in Washington before Harper departs. If Boston hadn't won in 2013, could have taken a swipe at Devers...but right now it's all a numbers game.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:21 PM) Our direction so far is to hope that we can get to the same point that we just were. All pitching, no hitting. That is a f***ing terrible direction. If we don't get hitting back for Q, Jones, Frazier...then we can be a little upset. Let's not forget we'll have our pick of two top collegiate hitters in 2018 and 2019...you add a Bryant, Schwarber, Happ, Benintendi...two of them, then you're really cooking. Obvious caveat is they have to hit on those two picks. No room for error.

At the very least, the White Sox top three minor league affiliates just got a huge early Christmas present. Burdi, Hansen, Fulmer and Adams will hopefully be elevated by all the competition as well.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:11 PM) Q is the only one of any value. That's it. And Frazier, and Jones, and Abreu...who will likely stick around and Jones might be upgraded to closer to max out his value if it's not high enough already as a set up guy. That's risky, as he might not succeed there...but we have no way of knowing what if anything has been offered yet for him. Robertson and Cabrera get you salary relief, mostly.

QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:03 PM) Pitchers. Great. f*** you, Hahn. Pitching is the most volatile and in-demand need in the game, whether starters or relievers. Andcwe have the minor league development staff along with Cooper that theoretically excel in that area. One only needs to go back through 1998-2001 BA prospect lists to see how many busted from our #1 system in baseball. Once Sale was gone, it was natural for Eaton to go, and we already knew their system intimately. We can turn Eaton (who was Santiago...a low low draft pick) and a waiver claim in Q into one of the Top 3-5 farm systems in baseball. Logical enough. Just need to hit on at least 60% of the Top Ten names.

QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:03 PM) Pitchers. Great. f*** you, Hahn. Pitching is the most volatile and in-demand need in the game, whether starters or relievers. Andcwe have the minor league development staff along with Cooper that theoretically excel in that area. One only needs to go back through 1998-2001 BA prospect lists to see how many busted from our #1 system in baseball. Once Sale was gone, it was natural for Eaton to go, and we already knew their system intimately. We can turn Eaton (who was Santiago...a low low draft pick) and a waiver claim in Q into one of the Top 3-5 farm systems in baseball. Logical enough. Just need to hit on at least 60% of the Top Ten names.

Q to the Astros for a slew of young hitters is the logical final move...the Dodgers seem to be closed off as an avenue.

Taylor, Avi, May, Engel, Coats....welcome to tanking.