caulfield12

QUOTE (knightni @ May 6, 2016 -> 11:36 AM) I don't understand their short leash on Johnson. He's no worse than Gonzalez or Danks right now. At least give him a chance to try and improve at the MLB level. Unless they have some "inside information" with team doctors/psychologists and just don't believe he possesses what it takes "between the ears" to be a consistently successful big league pitcher. Cooper pulled the plug on Daniel Hudson after just 3 starts, and he had much more obvious stuff/ability than Johnson, who, considering his ideal size/frame, should be a workhorse who throws consistently in the low to mid 90's. Johnson looks a lot better on paper (especially his AAA results and even August/September run with the Sox) than he does in reality. Watching video, there's just nothing overwhelming or exciting that jumps out at you that makes you believe he's actually going to stick.

If he gets behind in the count and can't catch up with (or lay off) high fastballs, he's eerily reminiscent of Viciedo and Beckham struggling with that same issue. Dayan, in particular, where you felt once the count wasn't in his favor, the at-bat was pretty much doomed. It seems (and I haven't watched enough games or highlights, mostly following throw apps/online) that a lot of his heavy damage is done on offspeed stuff, whereas fastballs often result in flares that drop in. Perhaps that's changed recently. I do know that eventually he has to prove he can consistently drive that high fastball into the RCF gap (ala Quentin or Abreu) or he's going to face a steady diet of pitching high or inside, challenging him to turn on it (like Lawrie has shown the ability to do, even high and on the outside corner at 95-96) and pull it way out.

And, despite everything just written, he's got a great amount of "veteran savvy" to his game...call it swagger, cockiness/confidence...he's a very composed/poised and mature young man, and part of that comes from being projected as the #1 overall draft pick for a couple of years and all the scrutiny that goes along with that as well as pitching in spotlight of the ACC. That's one of his biggest positives. A 1-4 start won't affect him or "get in his head" like it might with Erik Johnson...to where it snowballs and he becomes more and more ineffective. It would be a shock if he doesn't rebound as the whether gets nicer in May/June, as most Florida kids respond better to the heat.

As to the previous poster's point, the one thing that PTAC has always argued (and he's studied the physiology of pitching more than anyone here, and professionally) is that his command will be much harder to maintain consistently over the course of a game (and he's definitely got a much higher walk rate than Sale, one key difference) along with the fact he would be more susceptible to injury. Of course, we've heard 1,000,000 times that Sale would have to fall apart over time because of his frame, inverted W, etc., since 2010...was a reliever instead of a starter, etc. That said, Rodon is more reminiscent of a more durable Hector Santiago than Chris Sale at the moment. Somewhere in the middle. A #2 or possibly a 3. Maybe in my lifetime, the lefty that he's most reminiscent in terms of potential is Wilson Alvarez, and I believe Wilson had even more explosiveness overall across the board when he came to the big leagues than Rodon even. Alvarez threw a no-hitter and put up some impressive numbers but never quite managed to become the ace we all projected him to be. Obviously right now it's easy to be a BIT down on him, to even wish we had Nola/Wacha instead of Rodon...time will tell. But I'll quickly agree that the odds of him being better than Chris Sale aren't that great.

If the Orioles thought Gonzalez still had "it," he wouldn't have been jettisoned. Especially in that division, you can't get away with 87-90 when you've previously been in the low and even mid 90's earlier in your career. Whether he comes close to getting that fastball back, that's going to be one of the big keys. Yes, it's obvious. And we've had guys like Paulino who were throwing mid 90's without any command that got ripped to shreds easily enough. Not just about throwing hard, but command/control in and out of the zone. If you look at the fact that they lost one of their best pitchers in Chen to the Marlins and STILL let Gonzalez walk, that's pretty telling about their confidence in him going forward.

I'm not sure how his fastball is "as good as it gets." The slider, sure, no doubt. The only way he can get away with throwing a more controlled 90-94 instead of 94-97 is by getting ahead in counts and having better command inside the strike zone. Unless he's now suddenly getting a lot more movement than before, the FB that I previously saw was relatively straight and not nearly so explosive as Sale's. It wasn't nearly the put away pitch that Chris' FB was/is, and part of that has to do with all the arm angles and funky motion/delivery Chris utilizes. The best slider in recent years from a starter was probably Francisco Liriano's in 2006, before he blew out his elbow because of all the torque throwing that pitch 88-91 MPH. Rodon's is usually around 86-87. He's going to still have to improve that change-up and be able to throw it at least 15% of the time to be a really dominant pitcher IMO.

Would be shocked to see Fulmer before August/September, and then, more likely as a reliever...presumably with the organization being concerned about managing his total innings for the season.

Let's also not forget the Phillies have nothing to lose this season and are playing quite relaxed...and they also face the Braves and Marlins quite a bit, although to say he's fattening up on the Mets (who weren't a very strong offense until Cespedes came on board) and the Nationals would be pushing it a bit. Just a completely different environment in the two cities in terms of expectations right now. It's why it was pointless to compare, say, Kip Wells' numbers with the Pirates back in the early 00's versus what he realistically would have done pitching for the White Sox. And then the NL has those 5-6 pretty terrible teams (and had them in the 2nd half as well last year), compared to the relatively parity and strength of the AL. Pretty sure Nola's numbers don't stand up as well pitching in the AL (taking the DH out of consideration, that's obvious too)...

Who was the best Korean starting pitcher on the market and why didn't he leave the KBL? Anyone know? Yeah, the fifth starter thing for next year is not one of the biggest concerns...it's getting that spot in the rotation where maybe you go 2-4 instead of 1-5 every six starts. Over the course of the year, that's a difference of -16 vs. -8, a HUGE eight game swing in the standings that will define whether we can get to the playoffs or not. Obviously, 18-1 out of Sale/Quintana/Latos/Gonzalez starts won't continue, and hopefully Rodon will get things turned around as well, as nobody who thought we were going to be in contention had him pegged with a 1-4 record at this point in the season.

Avengers (3.25/4)

With all that said about starting pitching, all of the other teams have plenty of issues (except maybe CLE)... Royals have Chris Young and Medlen to a lesser extent struggling, but have more depth (Duffy, Gee, Wang, Zimmer, etc.) Indians might have the best overall rotation if Trevor Bauer can ever figure things out. Kluber, though, hasn't been the same pitcher as 2014 (granted, he won the Cy Young over Sale), and Tomlin/C.Anderson are a crap shoot at the back end in terms of stuff. Tigers have a dominant pitcher so far in Jordan Zimmerman, two washed up pitchers in Verlander and Sanchez, a top prospect in Michael Fulmer just getting his feet wet and taking his lumps...and then Greene for now, although Daniel Norris is probably their fifth when he comes back. Minnesota is just a mess. Hughes (5.85 ERA), Nolasco (4.05 ERA, about as expected)....Ervin Santana (currently injured) and Alex Meyer/Tommy Milone (5.79 ERA), Jose Berrios (6.75 ERA) is one of the Top 30-40 prospects in baseball and many are extremely high on him but he's been up and down like M.Fulmer and will probably have a typical inconsistent rookie year.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ May 6, 2016 -> 12:03 AM) And let's not forget Kenny's "brilliant" decision in 2009 to have the back end of his rotation manned by a beat up, done Jose' Contreras and an overweight pre steroid Bartolo Colon. Worked out great didn't it? I've consistently said, you don't need five starters today, YOU NEED SIX because someone is going to get hurt, someone is going to slump, rain or snow is going to force double headers. The top five stay in the rotation and the sixth guy goes to the pen for long relief and spot starting. If one of the top five can't cut it, you switch the long guy into the rotation. It's not that hard to figure out folks and it gives you some flexibility and insurance. Why the Sox can't seem to figure this out is beyond me. They keep costing themselves playoff spots (like in 96 after a 40-21 start) and 2003. How many times do they have to see it f*** up before they learn. Mark One more reminder. Trading three starters (or 2.5) in Wells, Josh Fogg and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie, who didn't even last a season. That really dealt a blow to our depth, as well as the injuries to guys like Parque, Rocky Biddle (ended up in the pen), Lorenzo Barcelo...and then you had the highly touted guys like Matt Ginter, Danny Wright and Rauch who sucked/got injured. Only Jon Garland and Buehrle made it with the Sox and had a lasting impact.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/white-s...till-uncertain/ Trying to remember who else started in 2003...other than Josh Stewart. Mike Porzio was one. Neal Cotts was the other for seven starts between those two. All four pitchers had ERA's north of 5.96. Dan Wright=6.15 Stewart=5.96 Porzio=6.43 Cotts (including the famous start at Yankee Stadium Buehrle wanted)=8.10 1996, 5th starters with ERA's, Kirk McCaskill (6.97), Joe Magrane (6.88), Bertotti (5.14), Sirotka (7.18), Luis Andujar (8.22), Jason Bere (10.26), Scott Ruffcorn (11.37), Marvin Freeman (13.50) OUCH.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 5, 2016 -> 10:43 PM) 5th starter was disappointing, but the offense is a much clearer problem with much murkier solutions Let's just hope Hawk and KW have moved on from Carlos Gomez and Carl Crawford. Speaking of Hawk heroes, what's Delmon Young doing these days? While we're at it, we might want to try Dmitri if we can separate him from his baseball card collection AND if his weight is under 350 pounds.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ May 5, 2016 -> 10:24 PM) Stats of the Night: 1. The Sox have lost EVERY SINGLE START THIS YEAR by a 5th starter (0-5) 2. Sox have been outscored 34-10 in games started by the 5th starter. (Granted not all those runs scored were off the 5th starter but they are getting put in an early hole usually and simply can't recover...) Mark Don't forget 1-4 in Carlos Rodon starts. Not sure how you're characterizing the Miguel Gonzalez spot start that we eventually pulled out. On, the plus side (especially for poor Jose), the White Sox are 18-1 in games started by Sale, Quintana, Latos and Miguel Gonzalez. But yeah, some shades of 2003 there, or 1996.

Latos, Sale and Quintana are starting this weekend. Guess it depends on their respective starting schedules at Charlotte.

Somehow we had "succor" and a "bubble of misery" in the same sequence. At least the imagery is evocative. If we still had HERO Jake Peavy on the bump, we'd be in really sad shape like the Giants are with both him and Matt Cain. Now, that said, it's fair to question trading for players with limited windows (2 years or less, especially if they leave as FA's without compensation)...if there's a string of successes from players like Semien and Thompson. The jury's far from out on that one, though, and the White Sox would tell you they sold high on both Trayce and Montas in order to bring Frazier on board. We haven't had much luck trading some of our own heroes as well, like Addison Reed and Sergio Santos. The Edwin Jackson trade also comes to mind, although that was complicated by the financial desire to get out from under the commitment to Teahen (partially).

Attendance jumped way up for the Cinco de Mayo promotion, 20,126 in the house. Seemingly, that promotion (and/or better weather) was worth roughly a 35% increase in the numbers.

Condor, That's what Kenny Williams believed for a long, long time. It was the foundation of the 2000-2004 teams. 2005 proved the need for quality depth of starting pitching (McCarthy down the stretch) as well as sound defense and fundamentals/execution...as well as the ability to manufacture runs the first half of the season in particular before relying on the 3 run homer more late in the season. Now whether some MIT or Cal Tech quant could prove there's an actual attendance difference between teams that are high-scoring offenses (but play close games overall, around .500ish) and that these so-so teams with more exciting offensive firepower are equaling or outdrawing the 85-77 or 86-76 White Sox with top 25% pitching/defense and bottom 33% offense, you'd have something.

Thad Bosley bringing some humour to this thread. Much needed when you're at the 3 hour mark with 3 more innings left to go. At any rate, attendance threads=page views and drives revenue/s into the stratosphere for SoxTalk, haha. Those Silicon Valley entrepreneurs selling the banner ads/links should be putting a check in the mail for helping their site numbers. In all seriousness, it's kind of like our version of traffic accidents or Faces of Death videos.

One notable improvement with the offensive. White Sox 9th in the major leagues now with 98 walks.

Big momentum shifts in this game. So much for Albers starting a new scoreless appearances streak.

I hate Mariah Carey! (Although she's hotter than A-Rod's new venture capitalist ladyfriend).

This game is nuts...

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ May 5, 2016 -> 08:25 PM) HUGE at bat for Hector right there! Wow. My adrenal is going. Adrenal glands or adrenaline?