caulfield12

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 09:28 AM) I'd love to see how much we can strengthen our system just through trading relievers. The 10-25 range will have to get quite a bit stronger, at least. Sadly enough, Jacobs was like the 8th or 9th OF on the depth chart for the Red Sox and wasn't going to be protected. In our system, he's automatically #2 behind Thompson. And 6th-9th overall. Of course, we can still argue Hawkins has more POTENTIAL, but it's hard to argue he's CLOSER to making an impact than RB Jacobs.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:46 AM) If all 3 NL Central teams could use a shortstop upgrade, thats quite good for the Sox. Except Zack Cozart is still considered their future. So count the Reds out of that. And Mercer just had the game winning hit last night and has done well SO FAR from an offensive standpoint. Kozma's sub 600 OPS stands out as the sore thumb.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:47 AM) Thompson is consistent; that is his problem. Agree on Mitchell. He is currently on the 40 man roster. I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell is removed and our new guy Jacobs added during the off season. They have to add him or they will lose him in the Rule V draft. Hahn's not that stupid, I hope.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:45 AM) One guy the Sox could like going forward is James Ramsey, your 1st rd pick last year. the sox have "toolsy " OFer prospects and need a consistent, solid guy with upside. Him, along with a decent arm high A, see some AA by years end, top 10-15 in your system would be around a solid return. If the sox can't one top prospect, 2 decent ones would be about right. The price might go up seeing how Alexei could be a good fit for Pittsburgh and the Reds as well. To get Ramsay, they're going to have to send either money or DeAza/Jones/Reed (if not Reed, probably both Jones and DeAza) to the Cardinals as well.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:42 AM) Which is why it was wierd that you posted a comment which would not have been written in the case where the international slotting system was understood. Given how the White Sox have operated over the last decade+, I think it's a very safe assumption that the money will be spent somewhere eventually, but obviously you can't just "Spend it to sign more international prospects" any more. Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez says "hi" though. Unfortunately, he's not a hitter, but we might be better off acquiring pitching (something we actually know about) and spinning it off for hitters instead of having a prayer of developing a position prospect. Gordon Beckham wasn't even in the minor league system long enough to be tainted too much, lol.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:40 AM) Samardzija will be not be a Cub in 2015 anyway, he will be traded by then. I think he's going to the Patriots to take the place of Hernandez.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:31 AM) Diminishing skills. SIGH. Then why did Alex Rios improve so much at age 31 and 32 when he had a horrible season at age 30 and 28?

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:22 AM) Just judging by stats and the WHite Sox lack of ability to develop position players, I don't see a reason to be optimistic. It seems to me Thompson has the best shot at becoming a solid major league player, but he needs to find consistency. Walker might make eventually get a call up/make a squad just based on how fast he is. Hated both the Mitchell and Hawkins picks when they happened, and I think you can pretty much call Mitchell a bust by now. I almost think Hawkins has a better shot at becoming a major league pitcher than outfielder unless the White Sox have some coach somewhere in the system that is the swing whisper and can fix Hawkins approach and mechanics at bat. He does have big time power though, so that is exciting. I knew Rodney McCray. And they are no Rodney McCray.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:22 AM) Just judging by stats and the WHite Sox lack of ability to develop position players, I don't see a reason to be optimistic. It seems to me Thompson has the best shot at becoming a solid major league player, but he needs to find consistency. Walker might make eventually get a call up/make a squad just based on how fast he is. Hated both the Mitchell and Hawkins picks when they happened, and I think you can pretty much call Mitchell a bust by now. I almost think Hawkins has a better shot at becoming a major league pitcher than outfielder unless the White Sox have some coach somewhere in the system that is the swing whisper and can fix Hawkins approach and mechanics at bat. He does have big time power though, so that is exciting. Casper Wells is the better short relief prospect.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:19 AM) Have you paid zero attention to the new international signing rules? having an extra $2.25 million saved this year doesn't mean the Sox have any additional money to spend on international signings, those dollar amounts are now capped. It means the Sox have $2.25 million to spend on the roster somewhere else, next year or on an extension or whatever. The days of dumping money into international signings are over. You get a fixed amount based on where you draft. You can trade for more, but if you go over the capped value then it destroys your ability to sign people the next year. DUH!!! I get that, I'm just trying to "spin" the trade in a way that sounds better. If you think of it like Zapata, Braulio Ortiz/Hanleth Otono and Brandon Jacobs for Matt Thornton. WOW. It's an amazing return. Assuming they put that money back into payroll, scouting/development, etc. There's nobody putting a gun to JR's or Hahn's head and making them spend it. For all we know, they'll be putting it into a TIPS fund to spend later and earning interest. But thanks for assuming that I wasn't paying attention to the international draft pool system when I've already posted 2-3 articles about it in the minor league forum, lol.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:11 AM) Samardzija is a sick talent. You can't see that? I mean, there's not much more to be said. Aside from overrating players on your own team & underrating the opposition, most people posting in this thread are putting a lot of weight into three months worth of stats. Don't do that. It's not a particularly wise thing to do. I like you, because you puff out your bird chest when you post. So were Wood and Prior. Pitching is fragile. And yeah, we all know Chris Sale could go down tomorrow. Or never.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:24 AM) Mike here is what I will say. Taveras or all of the high level young pitching is an unrealistic return for Alexei. However, If I were Rick Hahn I would be asking for Matt Adams. I would probably take a deal built around Wong and another mid level prospect or 2 but that deal would take until the deadline. Adams is the type of guy that White Sox need to acquire in these deals. That may be too steep for St. Louis but that's what I'd ask for. They're also not going to be willing to give up David Freese, quite yet. Certainly not in the middle of this season. John Jay probably could be had, as well.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos.../OPS/order/true Ramirez is around 11th or 12th out of qualified players for OPS. I would actually put him ahead of clubhouse cancel Yunel Escobar, but Tulo isn't quite qualified either...technically, he's somewhere in the 10-15 rank. Better than average. 6th in BA. 2nd in steals, which are not part of OPS calculations #1 in durability and innings played. He almost NEVER EVER misses time out of the line-up, since he's been with the White Sox. And most scouts believe he'll thrive playing for a contending team, just like the entire Dodgers' line-up has taken off when Puig and Hanley Ramirez were inserted into the line-up, Ethier, Kemp, A. Gonzalez and AJ Ellis started getting better pitches to hit.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 08:09 AM) $750k is "a lot of salary" in modern baseball? It is kind of ridiculous they gave away $750,000 for a player that was going to be available as a Rule 5 pick anyway. That said, it's more of a testament to how far Matt has fallen in terms of stuff than about what we got back in return. Forgetting about ROI and what could have gotten for Thornton 3-4 years ago, we should look at it like what would/will we be doing with those cost savings, which amount to about $2.25 million. That's another Micker Zapata, another solid international prospect between #20-40 AND the NFL LOTTERY TICKET. We need another five of those tickets, and maybe Buddy Bell will have an actual success with one of them.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 07:06 AM) Quintana is typically at 91. Check fangraphs. But anyway, I said Quintana was a decent #4 starter in the long run, which is high enough praise for someone with his stuff, which is rated just fine. It's mediocre, but he gets the most out of his ability. Hector Santiago is not a starter in the long term, unless you like to see WHIP ratios in the 1.50 range. I'm sorry to have to break this stuff to you guys. The harder you throw, the harder the ball goes the other way, lol. I'm talking about you, Samardzija. MR. ND MULLET SPORTING WR 1.30 WHIP 9.29 K/9 Hector Santiago 1.29 WHIP 9.42 K/9 Too easy. We'll take Edwin Jackson back if you want to throw in $20-25 million of "Ricketts Money."

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 06:57 AM) Saw him play about two years ago in Class A, showed solid tools and power, at that time he was a top 5 Sally League prospect I remember I'm going to take to calling them the Five NFL Lottery Tickets...

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 07:55 AM) Ramirez is one of those players who just doesn't impact a game. He's "just another guy" now that his power has disappeared. I'd take whatever I could for him to get that money owed off the books. He's just another guy because of his contract going forward. Then again, he's not because of the dearth of talent at that position, and the FA market being bereft of players at that position this off-season. His overall defense (yeah, he's made more errors but his total chances make up for, like debating Valentin vs. Royce Clayton back in the day), speed/stolen bases, throwing arm and he still has doubles power make him one of the 2-3 most valuable shortstops that are ALSO theoretically available on the trade market. When someone says he doesn't impact a game...the only way you'll notice is when he's no longer there and we'll say "wow, Beckham/Crede would have made that play" except they're not there to make it (like when Kepp was playing 2B everyday).

QUOTE (mike65 @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 07:41 AM) Cardinal fan, again. Buster Olney tweeted yesterday that the Cardinals and Indians were again discussing Asdrubal Cabrera. While I am sure that such discussions have taken place, I think the results will be like last winter. The Indians still want one of the Cardinal good young pitchers - Wacha, Miller, Rosenthal, or Martinez - and I am pretty sure the Cardinals will not do that. All roads lead back to the White Sox, IMO. The question is what Hahn would want in return? I have tried to play GM with my neighbor who is a lifelong White Sox fan. Nothing that I have suggested pleases him so I feel for Mozeliak - Hahn. I did think that the White Sox would have gotten slightly more for Thornton so now I am really confused. I have thought that Wong + one (lower level) should do it but no according to my neighbor. What say all of you? Then it's simple, if they're really desperate for Wong, they'll eat part of Alexei's salary. That said, from everything you read, he looks like one of those prospects who's never going to be capable of putting Carpenter-like numbers...just a decent/average middle infielder. If we REALLY want to improve, then we need to go after guys like Oscar Taveres. I don't know what that would require, they don't need Erik Johnson. Maybe Ramirez, DeAza, Trayce Thompson, N. Jones or Addison Reed for Tavares...and probably some cash going their way, too.

QUOTE (Benchwarmerjim @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 04:59 AM) did you see Aaron Hicks throw out Vernon Wells? Nope, but saw his leaping catch at the wall. Doubt it was better than the Puig throw in his first major league game, haha. But, the big question, is Hicks actually hitting now?

Ironic, the last team making comments about losing a player anyway and not having the ability to protect him on the 40 man roster was Pitt with Damaso Marte...the Pirates were so cocky Guerrier would be the "next Greg Maddux" and how they didn't have plans to use Marte and were going to lose him for nothing. Then he (Marte) proceeds to become the best LHR in baseball for the next 3 seasons. At the very least, one of the three top lefty set-up guys in the 7th/8th.

all from sonsofsamhorn.com Number 36 prospect in the Boston system according to soxprospects.com He was an interesting outfield prospect before stalling out at A+ Salem last year. He repeated the level this year, started hitting again and recently got promoted to Portland. http://www.soxprospe...obs-brandon.htm In another farm system, Jacobs is likely held on to. It's a testament to the depth the (Red) Sox have built that Jacobs was worth moving for a reliever. As has been pointed out, he wasn't likely to make the 40 man roster after this year and would have been unprotected for the next Rule 5 draft. As of this morning, soxprospects.com had him behind Hazelbaker, Hassan, De La Cruz, Margot, Brentz, and Bradley. Of them, only Bradley and Hassan are on the 40 man currently, and only Margot won't be Rule 5 eligible. They had a crunch and as intriguing as Jacobs is for his tools, he was on the outside looking in when it came to 40 man roster protection. Jacobs is still a high-reward but high-risk prospect but over the past month, he had started to remind us of the player he was a few seasons ago. He was very raw when drafted (Auburn RB commit) but has become much more of a baseball player. Huge power, aggressive on the base paths, right-handed hitter. For the White Sox he's a lottery ticket but if he pans out the Red Sox will regret the trade. He has a greater chance today of making it than at the end of last season. Jacobs was a guy I always rooted for coming up and could make a serious impact in the majors if it all works out for him. 50/50 on this. It's fair, and I'm assuming it's market value -- a decent reliever should cost a lottery ticket prospect, and nothing more -- but it's certainly going to stink if Jacobs figures it out in three years. The fact that he had to be protected in the Rule 5 draft makes this more acceptable; I don't think he'd earn a 40-man spot in this org. Guys with tools usually take a long time to figure it out. One pair of Sox (Red) apparently think he's not going to get it. The other pair (White) has hope. Of course, nothing ever became of Engel Beltre, so there's that. Let's hope Thornton isn't Gagne II. If past is prologue, Jacobs will hit 32 HRs and win a Gold Glove next year while Thornton will busing tables at the Golden Corral. Maybe they can use some of the cash coming back to purchase the soon to be 37 year old Thornton the very same "stem cell surgery" that Bartolo Colon got back when he was in his late 40s. Regardless of whatever he eventually becomes he is way down on our ML depth chart and was not going to have a spot on the 40 man roster at season's end. You make this deal everyday of the week and 3 ways to Sunday. What good is it to have great depth in the minors and not take advantage of it by making moves like this. I hate comments like this, because it is so non committal as to not say anything at all. Perhaps you feel it will reserve your spot to complain down the road should he become something, how very Glen Ordway of you. I closely follow the Sox minor league system and Jacobs was expendable. At 19 in the NYPL he had a .719 OPS at 20 in A ball-Salem his OPS was .881, at 21 in A ball-Carolina his OPS was .732 he faired slightly better repeating the same level this year with a .774 OPS before being moved to Portland. So in review despite playing leagues at a age appropriate level he has had one good season 2 years ago and he's part of the roster crunch coming up this off-season. He's the poster boy of lottery tickets, and it is a dam good trade no matter how you slice it. The Sox acquired a present need without mortgaging their future.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 13, 2013 -> 12:17 AM) Until some position players develop, bell has zero credibility. He's been a complete and utter dud until he proves anything worth a damn. And the Sox have yet another outfielder who struggles at making contact. I'm sure that will go over well. Good grief this organization can't develop position players. But we can assemble the most talented football team of all the MLB systems. Does that count for something? And we're supposed to believe KW had nothing to do with this one? HMMMPF.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/word-going-...on-yasiel-puig/ Fangraphs breaks down what has been going on the last two weeks with Puig... I also think there are three issues that weren't addressed: 1) His hip injury suffered in Colorado (July 3rd) when he banged into the stanchion/padding really is bothering him...seems like a lingering issue, and has caused him to be pulled from the last two games due to discomfort. Hasn't been able to get it fully loosened up even with therapy and pre-game running. He's only 10 for his last 37 (.270) since hurting his hip, with no homers. 2) The 8 home runs came so quickly, but now pitchers are being much more careful with him (especially on first pitches) and he's expanding his strike zone and trying too hard to hit homers and lift/pull the ball instead of taking it to RF. So he's hooking a lot of balls on the ground to the left side. 3) Stress/anxiety from all the negative media cover and hype over the All-Star game/final man vote. By Dylan Hernandez July 12, 2013, 11:34 p.m. The same explosive, high-energy style of play that turned Yasiel Puig into an overnight sensation could be starting to betray him. Puig made a fifth-inning departure from the Dodgers' 3-0 loss to the Colorado Rockies at Dodger Stadium on Friday night, his second early exit in as many days. The Dodgers described Puig's removal as “precautionary,” but acknowledged it was related to the left hip he injured in a collision with the outfield wall in Colorado on July 3. “I feel a lot better, but there are a lot of games left in the season,” Puig said. Puig was uncertain whether he would be able to play today. Less than two weeks ago, Manager Don Mattingly was wondering how he would find enough playing time for four All-Star-caliber outfielders. By the end of Friday's game, Mattingly's outfield was made up of Andre Ethier, recent call-up Scott Van Slyke and utilityman Jerry Hairston Jr. Carl Crawford was a late scratch with stiffness in his lower back. Matt Kemp is on the disabled list for the second time. Now Puig is aching....

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 10:12 PM) Tired of players that have no natural talent coming into a system that does not develop them. you mean "baseball talent" I am sure, or baseball acumen we need baseball players (like Beckham) with innate instincts, not athletes we're trying to turn into baseball players

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jul 12, 2013 -> 10:08 PM) I figure the Sox just saved roughly $3.25 million. Thornton making $5.5. Prorated for the rest of the season they owed him another $3 million or so. Add another $1 million for the buyout and then subtract the $750,000 being sent to Boston. Question Number Two: Who's next? Lindstrom, although only making 500K and the fact that their 7th/8th inning relief corps is even thinner now...they might decide to keep him OR put Casper Wells in the bullpen, haha.