caulfield12

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 2, 2013 -> 11:56 AM) Oh good, an unfunny, whiny rosenbloom article. It also as if he hasn't been paying attention to anything Viciedo has done at all for the last month or so....lazy writing, again. Doubt he's even watched a single Sox game since the Cubs-Sox series at the end of May.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 2, 2013 -> 11:32 AM) No, we don't What makes you think we could get anything more than salary relief for him? We're losing all the leverage and negotiating with just one team....not 10-15. The White Sox are better off just dumping him and letting Garcia play his natural position....it's not like they have to keep him (Rios), like the situation with Alexei Ramirez not really having anyone yet who could step in and take that position over until at least mid-season 2014.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-08...n-dayan-viciedo

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 2, 2013 -> 11:18 AM) Rios will be moved this month. It will be moot. Hopefully he passes THROUGH all the waivers and the Sox can get something back in return. If not, we'll just have to be satisfied with dumping his contract, which isn't the worst thing in the world, honestly.

The Rays had Top 1-2-3 draft picks for how many years? Josh Hamilton, BJ Upton, Delmon Young, David Price, Longoria, Moore, etc. Dewon Brazelton was also right up there, because they were afraid to deal with Boras/Teixeira. Now Rosenbloom's going after Hahn for trading for a RFer when that position is still occupied by Rios. Guess he has SOMETHING of a point, although the remainder of this season doesn't matter much, and there's still August and the offseason to figure out how to get rid of Alex. Rosenbloom's suggestion was benching Viciedo and/or DeAza, BUT benching Viciedo for the next two months doesn't do anything at all to help the Sox...there is, however, no reason they couldn't play Garcia everyday and rotate Dunn/Rios/DeAza at-bats, if they chose to go down that path.

Pacific Rim is an enigma. Most people who have seen it have really enjoyed it. By all estimates, it's now over the budget in terms of box office (around $240 million and counting) but it has been a big disappointment in the US, where it's unlikely to make $100 million. That said, it just broke the $9 million mark for opening day in China (a record for Legendary), and figures to be huge in Japan (because of Riko Kikuchi and the Japanese/Godzilla's enemies homage nature of the film) when it finally opens there. So it will easily make $50-70 million in China (Fast and Furious is already at that mark) and then Japan...and will be hugely popular as a DVD/secondary market/Netflix/rental/airplane views, etc. Which is kind of a shame, because the only way to really enjoy the movie thoroughly is in an IMAX 3D theatre with surround sound. Another interesting twist will be del Toro (if they make the sequel) bringing in a Mexican Jaeger/hunter robot...that will be a huge appeal for that market in terms of pulling in box office numbers, as well as Hispanics in the US.

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 09:54 PM) I'm a little surprised nobody has Semien as our #1. He gets better at each level and is seemingly a five tool player. Garcia's lack of walks really temper my high hopes for him. He's still doing great in AAA at barely 22, I just don't know sustainable it is in his future. Because he's not a scout's version of a five tool player at the major league level. He does everything well, he's got good speed but not great, good but not great power, he's a good hitter but he's not a 300+ guy (yet, sustained for a full season)...good defense (range/arm) but not anything that's going to light up the scouting reporters or make your jaw drop. The best thing about him to me is 1) his versatility, 2) his BB/K and contact rate, which is seemingly non-existent for most of our toolsy guys.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 11:10 PM) I don't think it is hard, at this point, to say that he is a prospect of the ilk of McCarthy/Hudson/Gio We'll see. I would be shocked if he put up the numbers that Santiago has chalked up as a starter at the end of 2012 and in 2013. Anything below a 4.50-4.75 ERA in his first year would be a bit unexpected. (Although Quintana certainly managed that trick).

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 10:36 PM) I tend to concur with the you; if not that specific plan (please post a warning when you write scary things - like Morel at 3rd). We should also clear out the bullpen soon of the Troncoso's et al and give some prospects or even another set of AAAA players a chance. It's ridiculous to play useless veterans. There's not much evidence to suggest Gillaspie could be a decent 2B even as a super sub. If anyone's going to take that position, it's going to be Carlos Sanchez, if they deem him not to be an everyday player because of offensive limitations. Gillaspie should play 3B everyday until he proves he should be the starter coming into 2014 or not...then you continue to look for upgrades at that position in the meantime. Morel could play 2B a lot better than Conor, FWIW. Plus, would rather have him in that "super-sub" role than someone like Angel Sanchez.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 03:45 PM) If the Sox can dump Rios, either in August or in the offseason... maybe Lindstrom too, maybe Alexei, for argument's sake... your roster would look something like the below, if you look ONLY at players under contract or already in-house: C: Phegley 1B: Wilkins 2B: Beckham SS: Semien or Sanchez 3B: Gillaspie OF: Viciedo OF: Garcia OF: De Aza DH: Dunn Bench... C: Flowers INF: Sanchez or Semien, maybe, or someone else cheap OF: JorDanks or whomever ??: ? Rotation... Sale Quintana Johnson Danks Rienzo or Santiago Bullpen... Reed (CL) Jones Webb Castro Axelrod Veal Santiago or Rienzo Lots of big question marks there, but also a very young roster with some very nice talent, and... only about $45M plus arb salaries to deal with. That might make it $55M. The opening day payroll this season was something like $104M. The team gets an extra $25M in TV money. Even if they decide to cut payroll a bit, despite the new money, they've probably still got $30M-$40M to play with to add to the above roster. I absolutely would not write off contending next year. That is a pretty damn good rotation (though lefty-heavy), that is a bullpen with some untested but talented arms, and even the lineup has young talent. But if you use that $30-$40M to get above average hitters (hopefully with some power) for a couple positions (and you could do it at almost ALL those positions, though 1B and 3B stick out)... you can make a decent lineup there. Just saying, I don't consider 2014 a full-on write-off... yet. Have to see how the offseason goes. Johnson 3rd in the rotation based on what? Santiago not even assured of a spot? Really? We all like Erik Johnson just fine, but it would be incredibly difficult to spin an argument he's as good a prospect as McCarthy/Hudson/Gio (or even Clayton Richard), and those guys all had their struggles in the beginning. Will just have to wait and see how patient they actually are if someone like Johnson just gets hammered around in early April...if they will be patient with him to let him develop or get back into "contending" mode based on their position in the standings.

QUOTE (beautox @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 04:09 PM) I agree I think this offseason we see Hahn extend the likes of Quintana and Santiago, maybe Beckham and maybe Reed. I would like to see offers look something like this: Quintana: 14:$750K, 15:$3.75M, 16:$6.75M, 17:$9.75M, 18:$12 club option ($1M buyout), 19:$12M club option Santiago because he is a year older less consistent and I'm pretty sure Pre-Arb3 nexy year: 14:$1M, 15:$1.5M, 16:$2.8M, 17:$4.8M, 18:$7M club option ($.500K buyout), 19:$10.5M club option ($1M buyout) Beckham a near identical deal to Carlos Gomez if he finishes the year strong and healthy: 14:$7M, 15:$8M, 16:$9M 17:$12M($1M buyout) I don't think the sox should sign reed unless you can lock him down for something similar to what we did with Santos: 14:$1M, 15:$2.75M, 16:$3.75M, 17:$6M club option, 18:$8M club option, 19:$8.75M club option ($0.75M buyouts for each option) or Soria: 14:$1M, 15:$3M, 16:$4M, 17:$6M club option, 18:$8M club option, 19:$8.75M. Like you said sign two bullpen arms, maybe bring back Thornton. If Reed doesn't want to sign an extension I would move him, there is no need for a "proven closer" on a rebuilding team that might be a dark horse for the second wild card next year. This offseason move one of Rios or De Aza. Which ever will get you the better return (preferably Rios because you will save more money), move Ramirez as well the strength of the sox system(if it can be called that, is middle infielders: Semien, Sanchez, Johnson, Anderson and corner outfielders). What the sox need going forward since they plan on playing Garcia in CF till he can no longer handle that and moving him to RF is corner infielders specifically 3B. The Dark horse Even though this season has been incredibly painful to watch the sox have the financial flexibility and pitching staff to turn it around very quickly. I'm looking forward to this discussion, mind you there are a lot of "Ifs". In 2012 the AL wild card's each accounted for on average 38.3WAR, the Division leaders 42.4WAR and cumulatively between both the AL and NL the wild cards average was 41.28WAR and the division average was 43.6WAR. The Rotation Between Sale, Quintana and Santiago I have a strong feeling that all three of them are going to put up WARs in this neighborhood next year:6,5,4 assign the values to whom ever your favorite is. Just for reference this year Sale is on pace to finish with 5.5, Quintana 3.5 and Santiago 1.6. I feel once Danks is removed 18months for surgery and is fully healthy he will put a 3WAR campaign. Whomever the sox decide to go with with Johnson or Rienzo will be capable of putting up a 1.5WAR, essentially they need to be what Yovani Gallardo is projected to finish at(167.0IP, 7.28K/9, 3.51BB/9 4.70ERA) this year. Add it up and the rotation gives you 19.5WAR. Around the Diamond DH - Adam Dunn, I don't believe the sox will be able to move him through waivers this year or in the offseason if the sox are out of the race next year and he is performing I think he becomes an attractive target. Lets say he has an regular adam dunn year .215/.354/.465 1.5WAR C - Josh Phegley, I'm not alarmed he hasn't drawn a walk yet and i think he has shown he is average to slightly below behind the dish. I think he will get better in time, from a hitter stand point he reminds me of Jason LaRue or John Buck. .230/.321/.422 1.7WAR 1B - Corey Hart/James Loney/Andy Wilkins - I feel the sox would be best served not going after Loney since the Keppinger experience went over so well. Hart is injured so he might come cheap on a 2 year deal seeing how he will be 32. But having said all that since we're "rebuilding" the sox would be best served to see what they have in 24 year old LHH 1B Andy Wilkins. Whoever they go with .270/.358/.419 1.6WAR 2B - Gordon Beckham, if this is how he is going to be going forward i think he has the potential to be a 2.5WAR player SS - Marcus Semien, hes on the fast track just got promoted to AAA should be very telling how he holds up. Sox trade alexei in the off season and Marcus starts '14, 262./.341/.387 1.2WAR 3B - Conor Gillaspie, he looks to finish the year out at about 1.1WAR, personally i've stated my opinion on this forum on a number of ocasions i think he takes the step forward next year. .263/.330/.422 1.4WAR LF - Dayan Viciedo, I'm encouraged by his platoon splits and how July went for him i think he finishes the year strong and he finally breaks out at the ripe old age of 25 .269/.321/.468 1.9WAR CF - Avisail Garcia, he reminds me of three players in particular: Carlos Gomez, Carlos Gonzalez and Jose Guillen, I think he hits the ground running with full playing time .260/.305/.463 with solid defense in CF 3.1WAR RF - De Aza/Rios .275/.331/.425 2WAR Bullpen CL - Addison Reed, i already explained my reasoning above 1.7WAR SU - Nate Jones, I'm glad the sox stuck with him this season, his stuff seems more than capable of closing out games 1.5WAR Remainder of the bullpen i think is capable of putting up .5-1WARif not a little more. Bench This is an area to address i think this is a literal replacement level group if we go with Flowers, Wells, Morel and Danks. Add it all up and we're at 40.6WAR. enough to possibly scrape into the post season as a wild card and just for reference the '05 white sox had a team WAR of 42.2 Good post, very well thought out. However, the one area there will be a lot of disagreement on is.... 1) Garcia being able to stick in CF 2) The issue of replacing Alexei is more complicated than you're making it out to be. Semien is on a great run, Micah Johnson had one earlier in the season, we do have Anderson (3+ years away and jury still out on him ending up at 2B/CF) and Sanchez and even Beckham who could be more over there potentially...but it's way too early to stick Semien there as the Opening Day 2014 SS. Maybe 2B...but SS is going to be a huge challenge for him from the games I've watched of BIRM.

http://wapc.mlb.com/cutfour/2013/07/31/554...wesome-juggling Puig juggles soccer balls with Christiano Ronaldo, hangs out with Nick Fury in the dugout.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 09:47 AM) Oh, and to answer the question where the money actually goes, my guess is that the list for the offseason looks something like: Extend Quintana Extend Reed Extend Beckham (No reason to go to arbitration for another year, he's worth risking something like $3/15 guaranteed on with an option/buyout) Maybe extend Santiago Get all those guys locked up, and then: Sign at least 1, more likely 2-3 more veteran bullpen arms, including at least 1 lefty. Fix the **** bench. This step probably will involve bringing in a few guys (like Salty as I noted in the last post) who can contribute, maybe do several things, and can do those things well enough to actually get playing time. Guys coming off bad seasons or injuries would be idea. Still too early to extend Beckham until he proves he can hit for a 725-750 OPS for the rest of the year. Otherwise, you just keep him for 2014 with no guarantee beyond that. It's a slight risk, but how likely is he to put a 850-900 OPS and make the Sox look stupid for not extending him? Hope someone claims Danks, Rios, Ramirez, Dunn, Lindstrom and possibly Konerko (depends on his feelings) on waivers. Give DeAza the rest of the season to show he can be a better all-around fundamentally-sound player. Start sifting through bullpen candidates...for the remainder of 2013, including Webb and Santos Rodriguez, Castro, Rienzo, Axelrod, Petricka, etc. Maybe add one veteran there for some stability coming off an injury or disappointing season (like a JJ Putz, Broxton or Brian Wilson type).

Is everyone forgetting the lessons from the 2004-2005 offseason? Cano? That's crazy talk. You allocate that money wisely across 3-4-5 undervalued veterans when you're ready to go for it, probably heading into 2015 based on this year's FA class and the difficulties we'll have recruiting some of them to a "rebuilding" team. We know there are people out there who thought the White Sox should have done more. We also heard other clubs complain about the steep prices they attached to some of the veteran players they didn't move (Alex Rios, Alexei Ramirez, etc.). "But you know what? "I hope nobody calls them a 'loser' because at least Rick [GM Rick Hahn] was active,' " one NL executive observed. "His organization is at a better place than it was 14 days ago. And that's what he's supposed to do at the deadline. The teams that should get smacked around are all the teams that should have sold and did nothing. In some cases, I thought it was inexcusable." Hahn found a way to get potential value for the injured Jesse Crain via a trade with the Rays that could turn out to be well worth his while if Crain gets healthy and makes any kind of impact in Tampa Bay. But if the White Sox had held on to Crain until August, "they'd have gotten nothing," said one exec, "because he'd have gotten claimed right away and probably pulled back." www.espn.com And while the Peavy trade "wasn't the kind of deal where you run around the room high-fiving after you make it," quipped one GM, a lot of clubs loved the upside of Avisail Garcia ("chance to be an All-Star," one scout said). And the White Sox at least have a chance to hit on the young pool of prospects they got from Boston, particularly the smoke-balling Francelis Montas. ("I just saw Montos," one scout said. "Wow. Electric. And he can pitch. He's a long ways away. But we'll see.") Finally, remember that Hahn pulled this off for a team that never sold, or believed in selling, during the Kenny Williams era. "So I'm sure," one fellow exec said, "he had to do a lot of arm-twisting in that organization just to get them to sign off on what he did."

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 11:44 AM) Because that is the market value for a #2 pitcher for a year and a half of playing time. Peavy's contract is a value if anything. With the key caveat being when/if healthy... There are no guarantees as his career after the Cy Young award win in 2007 shows. The AL East is probably the toughest division in baseball...and Jake wasn't exactly lights out against the Tigers in head-to-head competition last year, either. It was a "fairer" contract to the White Sox than the previous one ended up being, we can all agree on that much.

Marty, can we wait until the end of 2013 or hopefully the 2nd half of 2014 or do we want to restart rehashing all these Viciedo threads over again? They're not going to stick Jacobs or Mitchell out there, and they're not going to spend money on free agents in this offseason. However, you might get your wish half fulfilled if Alexei is traded. The fact is, Viciedo's the most likely hitter under age 30 to hit 30 or more homers at the major league level next season for the White Sox. That won't change between now and April, 2014.

from baseballamerica.com The centerpiece of the deal for the White Sox, Garcia rocketed up prospect lists with an outstanding 2012 season and has done nothing to diminish his stock this year. Considering his proximity to the majors and recent minor league track record, Garcia is ready to help the White Sox now. A similar frame, stance and swing as Miguel Cabrera earned him the nickname “Little Miggy” from Tigers teammates last season, though Garcia’s game isn’t centered entirely on his bat. He’s a five-tool talent who runs, throws and defends enough to handle center field in his youth and right field down the line. He’ll never draw a ton of walks, but Garcia has enhanced his pitch recognition in recent years and doesn’t swing and miss excessively for a young power. Expect him to eclipse his career high for home runs (17 last year) within the next few seasons because he drives the ball with authority to all fields—and it won’t hurt that Chicago’s U.S. Cellular Field is a friendly place for righthanded power. Francellis Montas, rhp Age: 20 Career Transactions: Signed as international free agent by Red Sox, Dec. 14, 2009 Club Lg Class W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO BB/9 SO/9 WHIP Greenville SAL LoA 2 9 5.70 19 18 1 0 85 94 10 32 96 3.38 10.13 1.48 Incredible arm strength—he bumped 100 mph in the Dominican Summer League after signing—helped Montas stand out as an amateur, but inconsistent command and unrefined secondary pitches hold him back as a starter in low Class A. He pitches at 92-95 mph, sinking the ball to his arm side or cutting it in on the hands of lefties, though his mid-80s breaking ball lacks shape and finish. A wide, mature frame and max-effort delivery probably consign him to a future in the bullpen, but he has the fastball for such a role. (Don Cooper project, with Santos Rodriguez and Olacio, to name just a few). Cleuluis Rondon, 2b/ss Age: 19 Bats: R Career Transactions: Signed as international free agent by Red Sox, Nov. 19, 2010 Club Lg Class AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OBP SLG OPS Lowell NYP SS .276 37 123 13 34 4 1 1 10 7 26 6 .326 .350 .676 A career .216/.315/.304 hitter at three short-season stops, Rondon offers plus range and hands at either shortstop or second base, but international scouts never were convinced he would hit. J.B. Wendelken, rhp Age: 20 Career Transactions: Selected by Red Sox in 13th round of 2012 draft; signed June 19, 2012 Club Lg Class W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO BB/9 SO/9 WHIP Greenville SAL LoA 2 0 2.77 27 0 0 10 65 59 4 20 54 2.77 7.48 1.22 Signed for $100,000 out of Middle Georgia JC, Wendelken has the lowest ceiling of the prospects acquired by the White Sox, with an average, low-90s sinker and substandard secondary stuff. All 40 of his career appearances have come in relief.

What the latest on Cruz/Rangers/PED's stuff? Obviously the Peralta thing came home to roost with that particular move (Tigers/Red Sox). They really can't seriously think Tabata can hold up in a pennant race...can they? Or Presley? Rios and Pence are supposed to be the two best OF bats on the market. However, one fears GM's will now turn and say "well, we know you're desperate to dump Rios in order to play Garcia in RF so go ahead Hahn....convince yourself that Viciedo can play 1B and that you want to head into 2014 with Alex Rios as your #3 hitter again."

Premature evaluation...? He at least deserves the next 2 months of observation before drawing ANY conclusions, and, even then...remember how we all felt based on 2012 that Tyler would be at least average/above-average defensively? Well, that didn't work out quite so well.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:23 AM) The other thing to think about though is a guy's attitude. They gave Beckham years but they also were dealing with him every day, they knew him a lot better than us. They may well be done with Viciedo for all I know. He's definitely gone backwards with the glove this year and I'd bet part of that is coaching and part of that is focus. Of course, Viciedo has looked a lot better for the last week or two. I'd like to see him for one year playing full-time with Garcia and without DeAza, Alexei and Rios around...where he would be forced into more of a leadership role and couldn't be content to sit there in the 7th spot in the line-up. Maybe he would respond, maybe he wouldn't. As far as attitude goes, we've heard plenty of negative comments about Gordon's "stubbornness" and overthinking (like Konerko and Quentin) and off field activities...and we know how well Ozzie and Gordon got along. That said, only those guys like Hahn and KW who made the initial call on Dayan can decide when/if it's time to pull the plug. One would hope with a new spring training/reboot/refresh that the seemingly team-wide defensive issues might disappear...which is logical as trying to puzzle out why they started happening like a pandemic this season.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:23 AM) Was hoping Hahn could do a little better in his first big deal as a GM. The Sox pick up another "toolsy" OF to go with the masses they have been stockpiling. This one appears to actually have a shot at the majors since he has had a little success, but the jury is still out. The biggest holes in the system are at the IF corners, and this deal does nothing to address that. Instead of chasing down a ML ready bat, he should have taken a few players that were further away. We will need to see what he is able to do with his other chips, as Garcia seems like he could be ready to step in if Hahn is able to deal Rios. The other pieces the Sox picked up look like bullpen guys and a UT infielder. The other problem is that it made two teams that you are trying to catch better. The Tigers have their SS of the foreseeable future with Iglesias who is cost controlled and elite defensively. Hitting .330 this season shows he can hit at least enough to stay in the lineup. We will see what else Hahn is able to do, but in a vacuum, I feel he should have done better. The only other option if they keep Rios (hoping they don't) is to shift Viciedo to 1B and go with Garcia in LF or CF....depending on what they do with DeAza or in the offseason. Viciedo would have to put up at least a 775-825 OPS to hold 1B as a full-time player, though. His possible defensive shortcomings on the infield are well-chronicled, as well as his lack of height.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:18 AM) But he specifically said Jacobs is the best thing the Red Sox gave up, and Garcia wasnt something the Red Sox gave up Technically he was traded from the Tigers to the Red Sox for their young SS, then flipped to us along with their own 3 prospects.

If they could find the Josh Willingham CF (2012 version for MINNY) "buy low" candidate, that would be great. It's not Choo or Ellsbury, that's for sure. And how low Granderson's demands go, we'll just have to wait and see. They'll definitely give Viciedo at least one more year. They gave Gordon Beckham four plus years, after all. He's the player they have the most invested in, as well...along with Sale and Hawkins.

What happened to the Micah Johnson Bandwagon? Haven't seen his name mentioned as much recently...

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 30, 2013 -> 07:41 AM) How many of those lions were wearing Puig jerseys? Mostly lionesses. The leopards with Puig alternate road khaki/camouflage jerseys were DEFINITELY hard to spot in the trees, except for using the binoculars. Just missed another homer last night in the first inning by a foot or two. Hitting a pretty unsustainable (but nevertheless amazing) 14/20 (.700) when putting the first pitch of an at-bat into play.