caulfield12

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:59 PM) Right, the guys that the Dodgers and Cubs keep gobbling up by taking insane risks. The problem is that for every Yasiel Puig or Yu Darvish, there's a Gerardo Concepcion, Kaz Matsui, Miguel Gonzalez, etc. What happened already? Why is Miguel Gonzalez already a bad deal?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:56 PM) I don't know, but Rios is owed $17m, and picking up the entire tab would still leave us with a small market payroll next year and would have gotten us a better prospect than Eduardo Escobar 2.0. I can't tell you was available, but it isn't unprecedented. Off the top of my head, the Mets paid Beltran's salary to send him to the Giants for Zack Wheeler. But there's even MORE of a premium now on protecting young talent than even 1 or 2 years ago. The Angels feeling the sting of giving up Corbin and a lot more serves as a warning....those trades were just not happening recently, even if we ate half of Rios' deal, we weren't going to get back Profar. No way. Heck, even if we ate ALL of it, we probably weren't getting back Profar, for example. And the fragility of pitching (see the Cardinals' Martinez recent outing) shows that eating all of Alexei's or Rios' salary to bring in young pitching with ace potential isn't exactly a slam dunk, either. Martinez was hyped as throwing high 90's, touching 100, and he struggled at the 93-94-95 range his last time out before being lifted. Would we have been happy with Martinez for Alexei and eating all of Ramirez's contract? What if Martinez turned into another Santos or John Danks?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:49 PM) But they also never reallocated resources away from the MLB team like they just did, at least not in the last decade or so. Sure they did, in moving Durham for Adkins to clear the way for Harris, James Baldwin, Sandy Alomar, Kenny Lofton (now you can argue Rios was much closer to his prime, but his contract was still a bad one to some)....Howry for Frank Francisco, Contreras, Linebrink, MacDougal, in more recent years...trading a Jim Thome down the stretch to the Dodgers, for example. You're right in the sense that they weren't trading productive, fairly close to their prime players and opening up spots where there wasn't an "heir-apparent" to slot right in. They got a very nice return for Jason Frasor, for example... In the end, we're still feeling the bite from all those guys like Swisher, Javy, Gio, Hudson and Edwin Jackson going out the door without a significant piece coming back for any of them to replenish the talent in the major or minor league systems. The Zach Stewart and Molina debacles sting, as well. (Although you can conversely argue we were quite lucky/fortunate to get out from under the Santos deal....and that's a trade that meets your qualifications, trading major league talent for younger/cheaper/potentially better in Addison Reed).

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:43 PM) I'm mostly speaking of Sale, but yes, also Alexei, De Aza, Reed...they should be just blowing up the whole damn thing if they're willing to give up on Rios and Peavy for so little return. And probably they will continue to dangle Nathan Jones/Reed out there...behind the scenes, until they get a taker. DeAza's a fourth outfielder with a lot of offensive tools but a lot of flaws, so the question will be whether they want to pay him to continue to hold down an outfield position or open another spot....but for who exactly? As mentioned, Trayce is not ready to go, and nobody wants to see the Mariners strategy of Bay/Morse/Ibanez, right? Caught in no-man's land. Heck, I would almost rather see Mitchell out there in 2014, just to see what happens...and that might be what actually does occur, in the end (revolving OF tryouts at the big league level throughout 2014). Or Walker. Or Jacobs. They'll protect Thompson a lot more, though. So that puts everything back in the debate topic box of : 1) Trading Sale for a mega-package 2) Trading Quintana/Santiago to get more offensive help, along with Reed/Jones and opening up bullpen opportunities for the likes of Webb

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:44 PM) Hmm...I read that closer to his most likely expected outcome. Casper Wells will re-sign with us in the offseason and be converted to a 7th/8th inning set-up guy on the cheap, lol.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:40 PM) It seems very unlikely that Hahn couldn't have got a substantially better prospect if he was willing to pay even half of Rios' contract. And for a team currently scheduled to have a $46m payroll next year, that is frustrating. The Cubs have been doing this for two years and already their future looks extremely bright depsite having way more tearing down to do than us, and yet our front office won't spend a dime on minor league talent. The CBA won't let us spend this $60m payroll disparity on young talent, so where is it going to go? Kendry Morales and the like? Whatever -- that's a recipe for a middling AL Central team for the next eight years. Throw every dime you spend on Morales at getting some actual impact talent from teams you trade with and we may actually have a shot at winning in the next 2-3 years. Except they've never done this in the last 30 years, as an approach. It's frustrating to watch the Cubs or the Dodgers amass talent in this way...but the White Sox are highly unlikely to change course right now. The fact of the matter is that DET is head and shoulders above the rest of the AL Central and you're still going to have a VERY difficult time getting Top 1-2-3 prospects back from other organizations even if you eat a ton of salary. The best young player the Marlins got from the massive offseason Blue Jays trade was Hechavaria, for example. And yet this Garcia kid might turn out to be a lot better player in the end.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:35 PM) Good post. It is weird to see the kool-aid drank here since this trade does little to nothing to help either side of the spectrum, the rebuild crowd or the retool crowd. We will see what the plan is this offseason. Freeing up all that money does BOTH...but we just have to be patient and wait to see how it's reinvested. There might not be immediate gratification, as the results of all these moves won't start to make sense until the offseason following 2014.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:35 PM) They should be prepared to tank the next two years, at minimum, now that they've traded these two, with Dunn and Konerko out shortly and Alexei on the wrong side of his career. The problem is they're unwilling to commit to doing so. What move makes you think they're unwilling to completely tank? Holding onto Ramirez (so far)? They obviously want to move Dunn, and they would probably love to get out from under the John Danks contract, although they'll be saying publicly they expect him to round into #2/3 form with a year under his belt in terms of recovery from the shoulder injury and increased stamina/velocity as well as better results in the 2nd half. They're obviously following Konerko's (perhaps JR's) wishes and letting him finish out his career in a Sox uniform.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:33 PM) Not really. Trading Rios for a quality return, which is what we got, was by far the best of the options unless the organization is fully ready to give up on Viciedo. This trade makes it clear they're not. He's not losing his spot to Garcia. And he never legitimately was, except to quite a few here or on message board sites. Heck, even if he wasn't playing LF/RF, Viciedo would still be the best candidate in the organization at 1B/DH as well...to the point where there's the discussion about "wasting" money on Morneau/Morales/Corey Hart/Morse/C.Pena "placeholder" veterans.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:31 PM) You know damn well that's not the primary reason. There are plenty of other things that could have been done to effectuate that. Yay for English-major sounding words today, lol.

They can sign Morales or Morneau or Carlos Pena or whoever, just because there's a ton of doubt that Wilkins or Black are anything resembling everyday major leaguers. Now you can argue....why not just completely tank 2014 as well??...as the fans have still turned out fairly well, to the tune of roughly only 1000 less per game compared to the 2012 team that was in first place for most of the season (granted, overall revenues have to be down 10-15% with the discounting, the lower television ratings...bordering on abysmal, probably). It also might turn out that Gillaspie AND Phegley are just placeholders for something better coming down the line, too. But, until/unless that something comes along, we're better off playing youngsters who MIGHT be part of the future if the F.O. deems them legitimately capable of making an impact. Wilkins/Black are simply another version of playing Danks/Tekotte extensively in the outfield. Because there has to be SOMEONE in the starting line-up each day that Robin turns in to the umpires.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 08:51 AM) First base is terrible, correct there Beckham has negative range, but he's never shown well in advanced defensive metrics. There's been nothing good at 2B. Alexei always shows well, but errors are hurting him badly this year. Gillaspie is fair defensively, ever so slightly above average. Rios has actually shown a lack of range but has made up for it with his arm. De Aza has done nothing good in CF this year. Neither has Danks. Wise and Tekotte were decent. Viciedo has shown no range, but nobody should be running on him anymore. De Aza shows good range and a mediocre arm. Overall, fairly accurate. I really don't mind Beckham, but I still do not believe he would make for a good everyday shortstop. I think it's amazing how many defensive woes would be elminated with a true CFer. CF and LF are the two weakest spots, and De Aza would be just fine in LF. What about Flowers vs. Phegley versus say, McCann (dreaming)?

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 02:02 PM) So how about our first Post-Post-Deadline top 10? Where does Garcia Pt.II fit in One would have to guess in the 7-12 range...?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) You have to take this in context - he was a 20 year old who started his career at High-A going 14 for 40 with 2 triples, 2 doubles, and 7 walks. He got promoted to AA and proceeded to hit .285. Again, prior to the 2011 season. His true hit tool began to surface the following year when he put up a .554 OPS over the course of the full AAA season. I think he has a fascination with him, but I don't think that shows bias. So, essentially, more likely Eduardo Escobar-ish than Ozuna in terms of his hit tool, it seems. Still, young for his league and the potential to earn a starting position and get out of the shadows of Profar, Kinsler and Andrus has to be exciting for him. He'll get a true opportunity, seemingly, and that's all you can ask for, whether your name is Tyler Flowers, Josh Phegley or Jordan Danks.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 01:55 PM) L. Garcia played in the bigs this year already. Should Sox dump Lexi now and have both Garcia's in the lineup the rest of the way? That'd be quite a switch already. Two of the eight position players replaced in the same season with young guys. That's 2/8 of the rebuild already done. Greg, don't get TOO excited yet. This particular Garcia's much more likely to end up a super utility, jack of all trades, Ozuna/Grebeck type of player for us than a legit starter. Of course, they said the same things about Alexei when he was signed...or even that he might factor in as a CFer, as you remember. The main thing this does is pave the way for the Avisail Garcia Era to begin in RF and it makes it MUCH more unlikely that Gordon Beckham is going to be shifted to SS as a late season experiment (assuming Alexei is the next domino to fall...)

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 01:48 PM) If you're looking at comps who have played for the White sox, yeah non-steroid-06-Ozuna might work also, except with better defense and a much better arm. A tiny, defense-first switch-hitter with plus speed, Dominican Leury Garcia is a young shortstop prospect buried a bit too deep in a Ranger system that has no shortage of such players. While his adeptness with the bat remains in question, scouts all agree that his defense is top-notch in glovework, range and arm strength. Unfortunately, even if his bat does come along, he's still destined to be no more than trade bait or bench depth in a Ranger system that really doesn't need him. found this via a quick search at scoutingbook.com So.... 1) The writing might very well be on the wall with the Alexei Ramirez Era 2) Beckham more than likely WON'T be shifted as an experiment to SS 3) Avisail Garcia goes to his more natural position of RF 4) Semien ends up being the top minor league candidate at either 2B/3B but not probably not SS

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 01:30 PM) Exactly where A. Garcia was before today. In my ideal world, I send him to the AFL, I keep him in big league camp until the last guy, and I spend the winter taking offers on Alexei. If no offers are satisfactory, I send him to Charlotte to start the year (there is zero harm in sending a 23 year old wtih less than 700 PA's above A ball to Charlotte for 2 months). L. Garcia immediately pencils in as the backup for every position in the IF and CF and hopefully can hold those down. If Alexei isn't moved for a good deal in the offseason, semien's job for next year then becomes "hit so well that you force us to take a crappy return on Alexei in order to bring you up". So basically Garcia is a more dynamic/athletic version of Pablo Ozuna with the ability to play SS at the big league level but a less well-defined hit tool?? Well, ALMOST anything's better than watching Angel Sanchez or Tyler Greene or random 30+ journeyman/fill-in-the-blank, right? Anything that injects a little energy and enthusiasm into the clubhouse and onto the field...it's exactly what we need to get away from our plodding, station to station mentality of the last 10-15 years.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 9, 2013 -> 01:36 PM) Interesting. For all we know, Texas will try to trade him this winter or at next year's trade deadline just as the Sox would have tried to do. If he's ever going to have a career year it'd be next year cause he'll be playing for a contract. I won't second guess Hahn on this one. He's gone. Sox got a decent prospect and got rid of all that money. There is that 2015 club option in his deal, so if he does have a great or very good season, Texas simply extends him at basically the same money he's been making over the last 2-3 seasons.

The Conjuring was MUCH better than expected. I think Patrick Wilson's found a home in this new genre (Insidious, Hard Candy, The Conjuring, etc.)

3B, SS or 2B, lol. Anywhere and everywhere. If he hits like he has been in the minors the last two months at the next level, they'll find him playing time SOMEWHERE. 3B might be the most open position at the moment, until/unless Ramirez is traded. However, let's keep in mind how good Flowers and Phegley looked at different times...and where they both stand now. Still, nice to have SOMETHING to be excited about...even lukewarm excitement.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 09:16 PM) Everyone was waiting for him to fall flat on his face a month or so ago and it didn't happen. He might fade down the stretch, but he STILL looks 100% legit.

AL MVP: Uh-oh. Here we go again. If you enjoyed that vintage, old-school/new-school Miguel Cabrera-versus-Mike Trout debate last year, get ready for Round 2. As Jared Cross wrote the other day, Trout has injected himself into what once looked like a Cabrera-Chris Davis MVP conversation by charging up those AL leaderboards. But if this keeps up, some great sabermetric minds are going to have to explain to the masses how it's possible that Trout leads Cabrera in offensive wins above replacement, but is trailing Cabrera overall because of (gulp) Cabrera's defense. Incredible, huh? But let's save that issue for another day. AL Cy Young: Felix Hernandez can tell you all about how Cy Young voters have finally learned to de-emphasize wins. But let's see them try to factor out wins this year, when King Felix is leading the league in ERA but trying to make his case against a guy who is 16-1 (Max Scherzer) -- and first in his league in WHIP, lowest opponent average and lowest opponent OPS. Can't wait for that debate. NL Cy Young: With all due respect for the awesome seasons of Adam Wainwright, Matt Harvey, Madison Bumgarner, Patrick Corbin, Francisco Liriano, Craig Kimbrel, etc., all Kershaw does every five days is remind us that he's the best pitcher in baseball. Still. Just so you know, if Kershaw can finish with the ERA (1.91), WHIP (0.88) and opponent average (.188) he has now, the only pitchers in the live-ball era who have ever been in that neighborhood (or better) over a full season are Bob Gibson, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, Sandy Koufax and Luis Tiant. Whoever they are. Rookies of the Year: In the AL, Jose Iglesias has a shot to become the first rookie of the year ever to get traded in midseason. But Wil Myers can screw up that claim to fame. And in the NL, this remains one of the wildest rookie-of-the-year free-for-alls ever, with Jose Fernandez, Shelby Miller, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Julio Teheran, Evan Gattis and Yasiel Puig all making cases for themselves that are going to require many, many Advil for the ROY electorate. www.espn.com

26 multi-hit games in his first 57. 1.023 OPS at the moment, still hanging in the 370's at .374. Trout's catching up on him, though, having had a very strong July/early August. Would be quite a spirited debate about what player you would build your franchise around of Trout, Puig and Harper. Trout has the major advantage of being able to play a very good CF...whereas Puig is better suited for the corners, especially if he keeps growing and putting on weight with that large frame.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 08:15 PM) Still might get done if the Sox get Sardinas if the Rangers envision a DP combo of Profar and Odor for the near future . Sardinas and an A pitcher Sox eat $3 mill. Can they eat salary on waiver claims (basically, changing the structure of the deal significantly) or do they have to stick with Rios' entire salary/obligations going to the claiming team? Or that's only if the White Sox decide just to get rid of him...like the Blue Jays did? The Cardinals might be willing to part with David Freese if he continues to play so lackadaisically...

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 8, 2013 -> 08:03 PM) Beckham is not moving. Taking whatever he's giving you overall at 2B and weakening that position and SS simultaneously doesn't make any sense....unless Semien was just completely incapable of playing there at short and/or they didn't have any other possibilities for the position, like Carlos Sanchez/offseason/trade/Alexei deal.