caulfield12

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 07:36 PM) With anything somewhat resembling offensive support and Peavy would have 16+ wins this year. 3 runs in 8 innings is a QS last I checked. An ERA under 3.40 on the season is pretty damn good in the AL. The guy hasn't pitched a full season in who knows how many years and here he is in October throwing another QS. But when we've needed him not to give up the lead, or give up 1-2 runs instead of 3, he just hasn't gotten it done. Consistently in the 2nd half, and always against the Tigers. Golf clap, to quote Marty, but don't let the door hit you on the way out. Down the stretch, when we need him to be the ace and take some of the pressure of Chris Sale, he hasn't delivered.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 07:37 PM) Huh? Not a closing situation Why do we care at all what Myers does here? Unless they just want to rest Reed and get him to the offseason.

Alexei way too lackadaisical on that one. Had to be more aggressive there and charge it.

51 saves for Johnson. So Reed's out of the picture as closer in 2013? His confidence couldn't be any lower going into the offseason.

Saw the score and thought it was Reed that blew, only to find out it was Jake-meister. Figures. Right now, 2nd's locked up and 84 wins is going to put us in better draft position probably... Didn't realize Johnson had 50 saves already. He and Rodney are having quite the seasons in that AL East. With how bad the AL Central has been this season, you wonder if the Tigers can just turn it on when they face some tougher competition. Verlander will be fine, but you don't know about Scherzer's health.

I really believe the Sox are content with 25,000 and slightly more profit rather than 28-30,000 per game and posting any bottom-line numbers due to decreased prices for parking/tickets/concessions that are less than what they're currently getting at 25K per game. The problem with losing out on those 5,000 fans per game is that you're not developing the fanbase for the future...you're maximizing (or squeezing) the revenue in current terms, but probably "penny wise/pound foolish" long term IMO.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 07:18 PM) Was the HBP intentional? Probably, he should have been warned after the first one. Ventura and Harrelson and Cooper probably don't have the energy to argue anymore about umpiring in 2012.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 07:14 PM) It's not like they hit the ball well tonight. Indians also aren't trying at all this series since they know they can't play spoiler. Just wait until Reed comes in, lol. The only game worth watching now is NY/BOS or Balt/TB. Rooting hard for the Yankees to lose 2 in a row, but unlikely with Dice-K vs. Kuroda tmrw.

Saw the replay, 94 MPH fastball out over the heart of the plate. That was a good 430 or 440, maybe 450. A blast, in this September weather.

And that's why you can't trade Viciedo for anything less than a premium return, which you won't get for all the reasons a certain poster (and many others with his splits against righties vs. lefties) has outlined 516 times. You have to stick with him for next year, and play him everyday. Otherwise, he's not worth anything to the Sox, really.

QUOTE (Cali @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 05:24 PM) s*** this is true nationally too. Can you think of one team that gets less national attention than the Sox? Even the Pirates and Orioles get more attention for their past successes and Hall of Fame players. Maybe the Blue Jays? Royals? The list is small. Royals, Indians and Twins (maybe Mauer makes them equal)...Padres, A's, Pirates, Orioles, Mariners, Blue Jays, Rays, Lastros, Pirates, probably the Brewers (although Braun also cancels that out a bit), Reds, DBacks, etc. We're realistically probably somewhere between 14th and 18th. Our ratings are up for tv broadcasts, we have the international popularity of our hats and merchandise, Obama's fandom (lol), the Chicago media market, our franchise value somewhere in the 7-8-9-10 range out of all MLB teams... No more Ozzie Guillen, lol, plain vanilla Ventura. Does anyone really miss that circus or think it did anything but help attendance this year? Last year was just terrible in terms of watching the team on a daily basis. Until September, this was a much more enjoyable/pleasurable experience.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 06:04 PM) You can't magically create players in those positions. Who would you sign? Youkilis is the only thing resembling a decent 3B available in FA. AJ is the best FA C. You're joking if you think we should spend money on a UTIL or RP instead of a frontline starter. If anything, we should be cutting payroll in the form of Thornton, not adding. Crain's not tradeable until he proves he can stay 100% healthy for at least a 3-4 month stretch.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 04:32 PM) The man nearly has 100 RBIs and is 3rd in HR, most any team would like to have him....We knew all along that he was gonna K a lot and wasn't gonna have a high BA yet most here loved the signing when it happened. How do you plan on replacing close to 100 RBIs?? There are only 15 guys in the MLB with more. I'm guessing the argument will be the Moneyball approach....except with better platoon candidates than Kotsay and Jones. For example, trading Dunn, getting a new CFer, moving DeAzo to LF and a DH platoon of Dayan and ????. The problem is that I'm not sure that Viciedo will continue to 1) develop and 2) rake against LHP if he's only getting playing time once every 3-4 games. So let's just argue for our current roster's sake it would be Wise or Dan Johnson paired with Dayan. Then Dunn's money would be reinvested in 3B, C, pitching, CF, etc. You'd also improve the outfield defense by quite a bit, essentially having 3 CFer's out there.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 04:52 PM) We do need a RHP that can throw harder than 91-92. Aren't you surprised Jake was able to do as we'll as he did with his weak stuff? Dude learned how to pitch a little bit, but good hitters could smack him around. DET certainly had his number all season long.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 04:20 PM) In my opinion, none of Konerko, Dunn, Rios, or Ramirez are going to be solid contributors to the next Sox postseason team. Therefore let someone else pay the remainder of their contracts. With some of the savings sign an innings-eater to a short-term small money deal (Blanton, Guthrie) to protect Sale, Danks, and Quintana while at the same time setting yourself up payroll wise for 2014+ I'm not sure how good Quintana will be, but he's worth developing. It wouldn't surprise me eventually if he's a #3 starter, I just do not think he will reach that in 2013. This is typical "Royals Thinking" for the past 20 years. It's very hard to "band aid" a bridge to your contention window. People argued at mid-season how terrible Guthrie was...now he will be overpaid based on an outlier of a 2 month sample (most of his wins are against the Sox and ALCD), so you're going to be buying extremely high with lots of downside risk. If you want to take a moderate risk, then you re-sign Liriano and try to fix him. Better than giving that money to a Joe Blanton or Jeremy Guthrie type that will end up giving you a 76-84 win team again, or even worse, go Phil Humber 2012 on you. For a long time, you've wanted to trade Viciedo and Ramirez. That much was/is clear. The problem is that Viciedo's value is down, and one of our other four "youngish" position players in DeAza is no longer an ideal CFer. The other two guys we're relying on are Beckham and Flowers, and who knows what they'll give us in 2013.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 12:04 PM) These discussions are popping up in other threads, so, let's start a discussion here. What would be your plan, if you were the GM of the Sox? I am going to make an ASSUMPTION here, that payroll will remain similar to last year (which started at about $98M, and ended around $104M). OBLIGATED FOR 2013 BY CONTRACT (TOTAL: $72.25M): Alex Rios: $12.5M Adam Dunn: $15M Paul Konerko: $13.5M Jesse Crain: $4.5M Matt Thornton; $5.5M Alexei Ramirez: $7M John Danks: $14.25M CONTRACT OPTIONS AND BUY-OUTS (TOTAL: $8M to $54.5M): Jake Peavy: $22M TO or $4M BO Kevin Youkilis: $13M TO or $1M BO (Boston sent money as salary offset, but buy-out is naked, I believe) Gavin Floyd: $9.5M TO, no BO Randy Myers: $10M TO or $3M BO (also a naked option I believe) FREE AGENTS (NO OBLIGATION AGAINST): Orlando Hudson AJ Pierzynski Francisco Liriano Jose Lopez Brian Bruney Dewayne Wise Dan Johnson Ray Olmedo Deunte Heath ARB ELIGIBLE: Phil Humber Gordon Beckham Alejandro De Aza PRE-ARB: Chris Sale Brent Morel Tyler Flowers Nate Jones Addison Reed Hector Santiago Dylan Axlerod Jordan Danks Hector Gimenez Jhan Marinez Brian Omogrosso Jose Quintana Leyson Septimo Donnie Veal -- So, you've got $72.25M under contract, and at least $8M more in obligations, taking you to $80.25M minimum. Let's assume that $100M is the ceiling. Here is what I'd do... OPTIONS AND BUY-OUTS: Buy out Youkilis, Myers and Peavy, for $8M (so that puts the team at $80.25M at this point). FREE AGENTS TO GO: Everyone in the above FA list, except AJP (to be addressed below) DFA/RELEASE: Phil Humber, Leyson Septimo OPTION TO MINORS: Brent Morel, Hector Gimenez, Leyson Septimo PRE-ARB: Offer contracts to Sale, Flowers, Jones, Reed, Quintana, Santiago, Veal, Omogrosso, Marinez, JorDanks and Axelrod . All around half a million each, so that's $5M, taking the team to $85.25M ARBITRATION: Keep De Aza and Beckham around. This is purely a guess, but I'm thinking Beckham will cost $2M, and De Aza $3M, for a total of $5M, putting the team at $89.75M. Might want to consider giving De Aza a multi-year deal to buy out Arb and a year or two of FA. TRADE AWAY: Trade Matt Thornton. Probably will only get a mid-level prospect for him, but that's fine, as salary relief is the key factor here. That saves you $5.5M, so you go back down to $84.25M. SIGN: AJP first, and I'm again guessing here, but I think you can get him (given his performance, but also his age at C, and his history making the FA market narrower) for a 2+1 year deal, at about $7M per. So that takes you to $91.25M. I'd try to sign Wise to a cheap short deal for the OF, I think having that vet there has been a good thing. Can probably be had for $1M or less, call it $1M for now. That's $92.25M The other two slots you now face dealing with are 3B (or 2B if beckham can be moved over), and possibly one SP (you already have Danks, Sale, Quintana and Santiago penciled in). With $10M to work with, unless you want to trade someone like Rios or a top flight prospect, you can really only get one or the other that is any good for that money. So you are either starting someone like Leesman/Axelrod/Shirek/Castro, or you are bringing up Carlos Sanchez. I would rather shore up pitching, and go with the latter. So, use the $10M or so to do one of the following: first try to sign Peavy to a $9M-$12M a year deal (which I think is ppossible, with his injury history), or second try to find the best FA out there at that level of money, or third take Floyd's option. All costing the same, all getting you to around $100M. One hole to fill is the bench IF guy, not sure who that might be, but would be cheap. -- That gives you a ~$100M roster as follows: LINEUP: De Aza, 8 Sanchez, 5 Rios, 9 Dunn, 0 PK14, 3 AJP, 2 Viciedo, 7 Ramirez, 6 Beckham, 4 BENCH: JorDanks, OF Wise, OF Flowers, C ????, 3B-SS-2B ROTATION: Sale Danks Peavy/Floyd/Other Quintana Santiago BULLPEN: Reed CL/SU Jones CL/SU Crain SU Omogrosso SU Veal SPEC Marinez SPEC Axelrod LR -- OTHER POSSIBILITIES: If you trade Rios, you can probably get something good back, but you also now have to start someone like Jordan Danks in the OF until Mitchell or Thompson or somoene else are ready, which is not right away (IMO). You can maybe trade Floyd and his option year, but then you still have a pitching hole to fill. You may also want to flip Sanchez and Beckham on the infield. THE ONLY WAY I'd TRADE RIOS, is if it can result in a significant help at 3B, directly or indirectly. IF THERE IS MORE MONEY AVAILABLE: Then do something about 3B with it. That is the weak spot, with a 20 year old rookie playing there, who I'd rather see developing at AAA. This is a very similar team to this year, except the youngsters have had time to stretch out and develop. Sanchez and a couple rotation slots are the biggest changes. Agree with almost everything here, with one big exception, Sanchez. And the idea of moving Beckham to stick Sanchez in the line-up. The AFL will provide some further clues, but my guess is we're going to find out he's further away that we're imagining. We'll just have to wait and see how the walks and OBP hold up against stiff competition. And he's got to provide absolutely premium defense and 20+ steals if he's going to be a single and doubles hitter and not hitting over .300. Peavy and AJP are large parts of the problem over the last 3-4 seasons, Jake in particular, against the Tigers. There's just zero reason for one to believe that will change. Maybe the "mindset" of this roster and organization CAN'T truly change with Konerko and AJP still around...until every single veteran connected to 2005 is gone. But I'm in agreement with many that $13 million for YOUK is crazy, because it's not building anything lasting for the future...it's just a stop-gap solution, and this year proved that we were more than just 3-4 players (Myers, Liriano, Youk) away from having a legit playoff team.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 03:50 PM) You guys are very very smart baseball fans. Please answer this question for me: Do you agree that very early on, when Dunn and Rios showed they were not going to be crap and Peavy showed he was going to be the old Peavy, we could bury all the gloom and doom predictions of the preseason publications? Because of Peavy/Rios/Dunn, the Sox indeed were good enough to contend, good enough as the All-In team of the year before. Basically what we had was the same team as Ozzie's last team, hence the expectations in my mind became the same for both teams. Because of that fact, I became enraged that the team dropped 8 of 9 at the worst possible time. Had Oz been here engineering this year's choke job, many of you would certainly be as mad as I am right now. Why am I madder now than Ozzie's last year? I think I was so mad at Rios and Dunn that year, that they took the brunt of most of my anger. All my anger was directed at Dunn/Rios. This year it went to the entire team for what I felt was a collosal choke job. Danks went down to injury and was replaced by a pitcher who was on the Yankees' Florida State (Advanced A) roster a year ago in Quintana. Morel was injured and terrible early. Beckham was pretty bad offensively for most of the season. In one game, we used 8 rookie pitchers (KC) and STILL won. We had a rookie closer and guys like Jones, Veal, Septimo and Santiago (two other rookies) playing a key role for much of the season. Ramirez was just atrocious offensively the first 2 months of the season and never even got up to a 700 OPS. If he did, it was just for a few days, then he tailed off 100% at the end, especially with RISP. Youkilis, Dunn, Konerko, DeAza, Floyd, Danks and Crain were all injured at different points of the season. Sale, too. (I'm sure everyone remembers that week!) AJ was beaten up physically by playing way too much in the first 3-4 months of the season. We probably had one of the five all-time worst benches in the history of MLB. As Fathom has pointed out, that was a weakness that led to the likes of Olmedo and Hudson being played in key situations. Dan Johnson wasn't utilized until it was almost too late.

QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 11:50 AM) Marty would feel better about Detroit if Verlander, Scherzer, Fielder, Cabrera, Martinez, and Jackson were 5 years younger. Scherzer is hurting. Peralta has no range. Dirks and Berry are rookies who will fade under the glare of the post-season spotlight. Boesch, Raburn and Delmon Young (for half the season) were huge disappointments. Valverde is fat, old and blew 5 saves. Dotel wasn't that good when he was with the White Sox. Benoit is erratic and inconsistent. Omar Infante would have led the AL in errors had he played all season with the Tigers. Avila is a one-year wonder. Laird's actually been their most dangerous catcher offensively in the 2nd half. Jackson still strikes out too much, etc. No Victor Martinez clutch hitting until 2013.

We could have finished with the same record as the Rays or Angels, and it would have felt a LOT worse than the feeling now. I would rather they be 8th and not really legit World Series contenders than feel like I did in 1994, 2003, 2006, etc. This one was disappointing because of how many days we led the race, but we'll get over it quickly enough. Are they all posting on their message boards...well, we finished with a better record than DET, but they're going and might even have the best chance to win it all of any team in the AL if they get hot offensively to go with Verlander, Scherzer and Fister.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 11:22 AM) I don't agree with most of the rest of the post. Danks is a big liability until proven otherwise and Quintana maybe a #3-4 starter, the rotation is a mess. The teams talent base under 30 leaves a lot to be desired. If Beckham, DeAza, Viciedo and Flowers all play up to their abilities, no problems. Then you have Danks, Quintana, Santiago, Sale, Reed, Jones, etc. The bullpen, outside of Crain and Thornton, well, they're ALL young. Mix in 2-3 of Thompson, Sanchez, Walker, Mitchell, Hawkins, Barnum, etc., they'll be fine. Dunn, Peavy and Rios were HUGE liabilities this past offseason....and now they're not, to the point where Konerko might be our worst contract at the present, along with Danks until he proves himself again.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 11:16 AM) Why do you pass judgement on posters? Don't feel so special, lol, you weren't the only one...if you paid attention to game threads the last 4-6 weeks. But I have to take Dick's side on this one, as much as it pains and galls me to do so.

QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) This was a fun season, best of both-veterans playing to expectations and youth coming out of nowhere to make us more than competitive. My hope is a philosophy change on pitching aggressively to these .230 and .240 hitters that seem to beat us every night. Maybe we should spend the offseason looking at what other teams do pitching-wise to get the Royals' batters out.

I can't believe that every thread will be brought down by the same conversation over and over and over again. It's almost as tiresome as imagining all the "if it weren't for those pesky Royals crushing our hopes and laying down at the end for Detroit" comments continuing unabated all off-season long.

Flowers and Beckham showed something offensively to instill hope in the 2nd half. Thompson (Trayce) made huge strides and became a legitimate #1 prospect. Same with Carlos Sanchez. I'm really worried about Reed, but we have a plethora of arms coming up that can replace him, theoretically.... Mitchell showed flashes, as did K. Walker, as well. We finally have some talent in our system. Most excitingly, Hawkins, Barnum and Beck. We have the flexibility to move Dunn or Rios perhaps for the first time, should we choose to go in that direction. There's a lot more to be optimistic about, despite the frustrating ending to the season. Maybe looking back on it, the worst thing that could have happened was pushing Sale and a couple of the other pitches into an injury in the post-season or sometime next year. Missing the playoffs might turn out to be a blessing in disguise, from an injury/health standpoint.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 08:43 PM) I think you are right. Tigers up 3-0 Our of elaborate playoff plans, the END. We'll never look into Max Scherzer's eyes, again, the end.