caulfield12

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 05:49 PM) Great great post. As it stands today the future looks very dim. That's as of TODAY. Things could change of course. Yes, and no, a lot for 2013 depends on Danks and Konerko. We have the flexibility to trade Dunn/Rios/Ramirez/Thornton/Crain/Floyd and go with more youth should we choose to do so. Trayce Thompson and Carlos Sanchez both made huge strides as prospects. If Thompson can succeed at the big league level, that will make up for a lot of the production we're going to lose. That said, 3B continues to be a huge worry (most are now leaning against the YOUK option, but would like to keep him SOMEHOW) and so does Tyler Flowers being the everyday catcher, DeAza playing CF again and Viciedo hitting RHers and Beckham being consistent ever again.

It's probably more of a collapse brought upon the offense by the rest of the offense putting the pressure too much on themselves to fill the gaping hole left by Dunn and Konerko for large stretches of the 2nd half. AJP cooled down and probably played too much the first half (his defense until a 2-3 game stretch recently was just about atrocious), Rios couldn't carry the team all by himself, Alexei forgot how to hit with RISP and Youk was beaten down by injuries and a mystifying inability to hit against the Tigers or hit on the road, period. Beckham and Viciedo were hot and cold, hot and cold, but never consistent performers for an extended stretch. We need Dayan to put up better numbers than Crede and Uribe typically provided to be a really good team. Then you have the fact that Peavy, Sale, Quintana and a lot of the rookies in the bullpen were pushed harder than they've ever been. One thing is clear. This team was gassed and while we could have hoped with our hearts, the likelihood of a 2000 or 2008 post-season was pretty high. Still, it would have been a better reward and gotten us an extra $5-10 million in revenue, more season ticket renewals, etc. That said, it's pretty hard to make an argument that we'll be better and DET will be worse next year. That's a large part of the disappointment and frustration, knowing this was THE best opportunity until probably the 2015 season. And those pesky Royals have to start putting it together at some point, pitching-wise.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 01:07 AM) There was nothing on the farm to trade. People are fooled by this season into thinking the farm system is decent. When Viciedo was in the minors, no one knocked on the door for a trade. Brent Morel and Tyler Flowers are not an answer unless you somehow get Cabrera, Fielder, Hamilton, Pujols in your line up. I'd sell Dunn first. I'll take a chance on Rios having 2 solid years instead of a former NL who Ks too much to make an AL team better. The Nationals, among many others, wanted him in 2010. He was going to be a key part of the Edwin Jackson/Dunn deal, along with Flowers.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 30, 2012 -> 08:54 PM) That's cause the Rays are in an amazing division. The only way we can make the playoffs now and in the future is to win our division, cause we are not near wild card contention status in the future. Sox aren't in the same class as the perennial wild card contenders. We can beat them head to head many times, but in a full season, we don't stand a chance at compiing a record good enough for wild card contention. We better hope Detroit remains an underachieving team. Looks like KC doesn't have it with the worst owner in sports history. Cleveland is way too cheap as well as Minnie. The Royals can get their jollies off by beating our ass every year, but not contend. I still can't believe we stopped contending after '05. I thought we had learned how to beat the teams in our division. Detroit looks like it should be able to win this division every year. They have more money to spend than anybody and they have the best players/pitchers Sox are in a good position to tear it up now completely cause after this collapse I don't think many fans will be against a "total rebuild." Glass isn't the worst, but he's in the bottom 10. They've spent money, just not always wisely, on players like Gil Meche, Jose Guillen, Kendall, Francouer, etc. It's just that they needed "band aids" to hold down the fort and try to remain competitive until all the youngsters arrived. They do have a great core, if Myers and Hosmer are both the real deals. Escobar is very solid, Perez is going to be an All-Star, Gordon led the majors in doubles, it has always been the pitching staff. Cain needs to stay healthy. Imagine if they'd had a healthy Melky Cabrera instead of Sanchez? Combined with Guthrie? Then you have to look at all the pitching problems. Hochevar has never come close to realizing his potential, and they had 2-3 top prospects go down due to TJ surgery and wild ineffectiveness. If all of those pitching prospects fizzle out, like most of ours did in 1999-2002, then they've got a real problem. But I can't disagree with the approach.

Thornton at least learned to throw his offspeed stuff more the 2nd half, but he's lost some life off his fastball. Considering the contributions of Quintana (who the Yankees gave up on), Sale, Humber (do you blame Humber for 2012 or credit Cooper for his 2011 success or a combination thereof), Santos, Addison Reed, Jones (who 2 years ago nobody thought was bound for the majors), Veal, Omogrosso, Septimo, Donnie Veal, Heath, Marinez, etc. Part of me feels there's a need for "new blood" and a new approach. Then again, the strength (and weakness) of our coaching staff has always been continuity and JR's loyalty. You can look at Danks and Floyd specifically...although Danks is harder to blame (and Cooper) for 2012 simply because he was never healthy. That leaves the erratic and wildly inconsistent Gavin Floyd and Liriano. Let's see what they do with our teams before we condemn Cooper on those 2 counts. We've never seen another pitcher that Cooper worked with consistently at the BIG LEAGUE LEVEL go on to success elsewhere as a starter. Hudson, Gio and Brandon McCarthy are where that conversation begins and ends. You can even argue Cooper got more than we imagined out of Clayton Richard, Charlie Haeger, Lucas Harrell, John Ely, etc. And if Don Cooper had the 2007 version of Cy Young to coach, instead of a vastly diminished one, we could have a legit conversation about Peavy, but I don't see how you can say 2012, considering where he came from....was anything but an "overall" success for Jake, even though specifically he failed down the stretch and against the Tigers. That's also very hard to pin on our pitching coach, that's more on the pitcher IMO.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 30, 2012 -> 05:57 PM) Bullpens can be a crap shoot and rare to be consistent. See 2006 Sox. Look at 2011 Valverde, he's not lights out. Unfortunately kids from the minors think they can put their 97+ heater past big leaguers. They have to learn that the hard way. Where did Addison Reed's "plus" fastball go?

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 30, 2012 -> 04:01 PM) Not sure what the reason was, but he definitely declined it this past offseason for some reason. Supposedly, it was cleared up last year and not rubbing against one of the other major wrist bones. But it was "floating" around in there and relocated, unfortunately...and it ended up being one of the major factors in us not making the playoffs. This year, from what I've read, the injections and micro-surgery haven't worked nearly so well. 2008 there was CQ's hamate injury, self-inflicted...this time, Konerko's wrist issues, which are also partially self-inflicted in the sense he didn't get the comprehensive surgery done in the offseason.

Twins lose. Mauer had a chance to pass Cabrera in the batting race with a 4 for 4 game, but weakly pulled a grounder to Fielder.

Span almost tied it up. Leaping catch by Austin Jackson in RCF. 1 out.

Span, Revere, Mauer and Morneau vs. Papa Grande.

Wow, the US is going to choke away the Ryder Cup again, after leading by 4?

Sox Killer Jamey Carroll reaches to start the bottom of the 8th off Dotel. Not that anyone thinks it matters anymore, really. 1st and 3rd, 2 outs, chance to tie for the Twins. 32,554 for their final home game of the season.

Would it really hurt the Sox to lose Mark Parent? Wonder if they'll get anyone interested in Sox Fest this year? Without a new manager and more than likely losing some key components of a team that collapsed at the end, yikes for those trying to selling tickets.

Was Viciedo really that close to hitting a grand slam? Figures. Well, it doesn't matter anyway, Fielder hit a homer to give the Tigers a 2-1 lead late. Of course, it was with 2 outs.

Poor Harrelson. 7 walks, boys. Minny scored to give us some life, but doubt we take advantage. We'll see.

Anibal Sanchez has performed quite well recently for DET without any involvement from the Guillen clan on his behalf.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 30, 2012 -> 10:47 AM) I guess I'm not allowed to defend myself. I was responding to a post that says I have no inside information, that few of my posts "make sense." You sound like John Henry of the Red Sox ownership group here. Believe it or not, even if you were the richest season ticket holder in the White Sox demographics bank, it wouldn't make you any more or less qualified to analyze the team. Having or spending money doesn't need to be added as a qualifier to make your statements more valid or insightful. In fact, the opposite usually occurs when posters preface statements or comments by bragging about themselves...which has the effect, intentional or unintentional, of putting a lot of lot of people in attack mode. Did you really expect that people would genuflect in your direction as a result? You should know this board better by now.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 30, 2012 -> 10:00 AM) Guillen and Williams had to be broken up. No way this mess of a roster gets rebuilt in less than three years anyway, Guillen has plenty of time to either a.) get another managerial job or b.) rebuild his reputation. Sounds like a broken record from last offseason. Except they did compete until the final 3-4 games of the season. Healthy Konerko, bring back AJ, Danks is 100%, they have all the same bullpen components. There's no guarantee the payroll dollars they use to replace Peavy won't end up in a better result in big games or head to head vs. the Tigers. The biggest issue, which is patently obvious, is 3B. Let's see how Sanchez does in the AFL...he's probably not quite ready, so they'll need to find a one year, stopgap solution at that position. Viciedo needs to take a step forward. So does Beckham, and presumably Flowers. To say it will take 3 years is not looking at 2007-2008, or 2011/2012 transition periods and in-season moves. Not to mention that Thompson and Mitchell are close to being able to impact the roster as well, right as Rios, Dunn and Konerko are moving on. Hawkins could easily be ready at the end of 2014 or beginning of 2015, too.

Cooper failed because of Liriano, lol. The Royals succeeded with Guthrie, the Tigers with Sanchez. Therefore, Cooper should be summarily fired. And Cooper's also to blame for Addison Reed sucking, Peavy and Sale not being "big game" pitchers in the final month or against the Tigers, and Matt Thornton continuing to try to pitch with only fastballs.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 29, 2012 -> 05:59 PM) Oh god. Why did I turn on Rongey? Was he turning on the fans or playing it cool? There's really not that much anger left in me...it was dissipated mostly in the Royals and Indians games, and the Angels just kind of blew us out of the water, except for one of the contests being pretty close but not so interesting or exciting.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 29, 2012 -> 05:57 PM) Smart play would be moving Ventura to the booth and out of the dugout go avoid further disaster. Don't feel he'd particularly enjoy that, either. Best to return to a front office role and/or assisting Buddy Bell...or just going back to be with his family.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 29, 2012 -> 09:44 PM) Does Robin want to come back, that is the question? Robin seems too calm to be a manager. I think we should switch every year. Next season's manager: Big Hurt, Frank Thomas. Then the following year: Harold Baines. Year after that: Steve Stone. And year after that: Ozzie Guillen. Why not? Sox should switch every year. Robin did a good job but didn't quite have the magic touch to avoid the late-season meltdown. Let's give Big Hurt the next shot. Greg, very very few ex players that were great ever become good managers. Baines, you're not serious, are you? I would rather have Fisk or even Black Jack McDowell (never happen) than Baines. Talk about boring or no interviews with Robin, can't imagine how this team would disappear completely from the media with Harold. Stone would profile more as a GM/front office type than having any interest in managing. He's already wealthy, he doesn't need the headaches that go with managing a club on a daily basis. Maybe Robin will decide he feels the same way. It's either in your blood/DNA or it's not. I could even honestly say I would rather have Hawk Harrelson, DJ, Farmer or Singleton managing than Baines, and that's saying a lot. (I won't go as far as saying Chris Rongey, that's just too much of a stretch.) Thomas should probably start off in a coaching or minor league managing role and see how he feels after a year or so, just like Ventura did....kind of easing into it one step at a time.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 29, 2012 -> 09:31 PM) I'd think people would want to say stuff in response to loudmouths like me. I don't know much but I like to spout my opinions and vent my frustrations. For the life of me, I can't figure out how the Sox just completely went in the tank. It's a completely different team than the first half. Now you're doing your Kansan Bob Dole/3rd person impersonation to get people all riled up, lol. It's not going to work. Frankly, the fans don't seem to care (not many), the boards are pretty dead, college and NFL football seasons are in full swing, there's always politics/presidential election to draw some away from sports, the media doesn't even seem to have the energy to pick over the bones of the carcass...certainly, MLB is a lot happier with Verlander/Cabrera/Fielder in the playoffs, despite the overall media advantage to having a Chicago team. The White Sox just aren't a well-known or well-promoted team on a national basis. If Ozzie was still around, or Cowley, or Mariotti, it wouldn't really make that much of a difference. You could make the argument that Hawk Harrelson has gotten almost as much (if not more) national media attention as Dunn, Peavy and Rios this season. Certainly, a lot more than someone like Jose Quintana or Addison Reed.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 29, 2012 -> 09:01 PM) I hope LA signs him since that's another guy KW always wanted. His numbers look good this year but that probably has a lot to do with Pujols and Trout. He's 4-5 years away from being an everyday CFer (a pressing need for us) and this season was an anomaly or outlier statistically...in terms of his general offensive trends. I would be hugely hugely disappointed if we swapped Rios for Hunter. If it's Rios, Hunter and another CFer, fine. But then you're talking one of the more expensive outfields in the AL, and two of those guys in their early to mid 30's when our biggest area of depth is OF (Thompson, Mitchell, Walker and Hawkins) going forward. If that means DHing/1B with Viciedo, and Konerko's gone, or Dunn's gone, well, do what you have to do. If they're going to find a band-aid or stopgap solution, 3B and catcher are the places to look before OF is considered.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Sep 29, 2012 -> 09:21 PM) He's right sometimes, he's wrong sometimes. He's in a position to know the relationship between Hahn and Guillen when Guillen was here. And he could have a great relationship with Buddy Bell, too, for all we know. Even if they were lovers (Hahn and Ozzie), there's not a snowball's chance in Hades of Ozzie being named the Sox manager right now after what transpired in Miami this past season. It's a little bit like the Steve Alford situation vis a vis Indiana. The native son left and managed to look so bad that he never really had a viable option of returning home as coach/manager. Ozzie MIGHT get a 3rd managerial job, but it's going to take another 3-5 years and he's going to have to do an amazing job of convincing that GM/ownership group he's ready to manage again and put the team before promoting himself and his family's interests.