caulfield12

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 09:47 AM) Right. That's why there's no point in discussing it. Usually the type of team that tries to pry away your Sale is a contender who is trying to win right now. Usually those contenders want to add to what they have rather than dismantle themselves at the MLB level to make a deal. Texas is really the only team that I can think of that would be able to offer a huge collection of MLB-ready players. They have Profar, Martin, Perez, Olt, Grimm, etc. all either at the MLB level or with MLB appearances under their belts & MLB ready. If the Rangers offer all those guys for Sale then you probably have to make that deal even though you may not get back a player who is equally as dominate as Sale is, because there's just so much value there & there is the potential to get something really special with Profar. But it would have to be a Playstation deal & there's no point in soliciting a Playstation deal. You can't just shop everyone though or you're not going to get anything done. If the Sox send their scouts to go look at players they know they won't be getting because the team you're talking with is very unlikely to meet the asking price, then all you're doing is shooting yourself in the foot. It would be pretty surprising if the Rangers deal Profar...on one hand, they're desperate to get back into the World Series and finally win. OTOH, they have a tremendously profitable business model going now and they aren't wedded as much to a single season's results as they are putting out a team that has a CHANCE to win the World Series if everything goes right each and every year. It's that kind of trade (Shields/Davis for Myers/Odorizzi) which makes more sense than trading away 4-5 prospects for one superstar, when you're risking the loss of Sale vs. Profar straight up (notwithstanding the other 3-4 players) as is a strong possibility with the future Sale injury issue. The problem is that KC gave up too much and punched a hole in their future offense...which is ironically their biggest weakness now. Why they blocked Myers by signing Francouer to that extension, we'll never know (it was about as wise as the Teahen and Keppinger deals).

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 09:12 AM) Alexei just needs to go to a contender. He's so much like Uribe it's crazy, neither of those guys can play on s***ty team and keep that same level of focus. Put them on a winner & it's a totally different player. I imagine any team looking at Alexei seriously would understand that also, so I'm not sure his errors and mental slips make him much less desirable. But he's pretty much been the same player offensively since 2009...except with declining OPS numbers on a year by year basis. Maybe we need to do some research into his 2009 and 2011 defensive performance and compare it with 2008/10/12. Offensively, he's been one of our better hitters and stolen base threats, just not as much of an XB threat as before. Your argument is that playing on a winning team has more of a concentrated effect on his defensive performance?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 09:12 AM) I believe that Cano pipe dream is yours and yours alone. Either way, the White Sox can choose to be major players in a free agent market that is likely to include Brian McCann, Shin Soo-Choo, Curtis Granderson, Jacoby Ellsbury, Chase Utley, Kendry Morales and more. Then I'll quote Jake's article from yahoo. Aren't all of those players pipe dreams as well? What reason do we have to believe that the White Sox will try to spend their way back into contention? As (arguably) none of them will come on board and be part of a rebuilding club unless they receive assurances that we'll bring in at least two more everyday players to provide us a legit shot at competing in 2014, or, at the worst, 2015.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 08:24 AM) Chris Sale may be one of the few legitimately untouchable players in all of major league baseball in that no team could or would want to offer up a fair package, let alone an overpay that the Sox would be looking for. Also, a lot of teams would kill to have a rotation with building blocks like Sale and Quintana. Throw in Peavy who won't need to be an ace, Danks, Santiago, and Johnson and the Sox rotation is one thing you don't touch. You might be overestimating Quintana a bit. We're not quite the Cardinals, A's, Giants or Braves in terms of pitching talent.

QUOTE (MaggsOrdonez @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 07:11 AM) According to baseball-ref Reed is being paid $520,000. Thornton is being paid $5.5 million. I would much rather try to unload Thornton at the trade deadline for some prospects (replace him with Webb etc.), free up some money for a FA signing now or in the offseason, and keep Reed for the pittance of a salary he currently earns. Reed has been great, he's fun to watch (#TWTW), and he's cheap. Well, yeah, that's kind of the point. Same with Lindstrom's salary, it's only $500K, so he would be easier to trade than Matt. Trading Thornton isn't really freeing up salary so much, because by the end of July, it will be only around $2 million saved....assuming we can get another team to pick up that contract (90% chance). All the reasons you've given for keeping him are the same reasons why Reed would be attractive to other teams...the major pertinent question about trading him is the doubt whether we have someone who projects to be better than Addison in the minor leagues right now. (As was the case for "dumping" Santos after we'd just signed him to an extension, as Reed was the clear heir-apparent.) There is the danger of going into 2014 with a question mark for closer, but unless they really feel they have a chance to compete in 2014...then there's not really a compelling reason to keep him IF IF IF another team makes an offer too good to refuse for a position player that's blocked on another team. It just seems or feels, with the way things are currently trending...that the front office's BEST method to fix the offense right now is by trading what assets we do have...rather than spending our way through the off-season. The preference should be to free ourselves from as many commitments as possible, then we can think about adding talent at the trade deadline next season (if the team's showing signs of being able to contend) or going into the 2014-15 off-season.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 04:50 AM) The point is if you are going to be bad for a long time, like the Astros, Sale pitching ffor several years in meaningless games only increases his chances of getting hurt. He has already missed starts the last 2 seasons with soreness. So the other point would be, when you are ready to win, Sale would be more expensive and perhaps not nearly as effective. If it were a guarantee he would be healthy when the Sox were ready to win, you would not trade him, but pitchers, especially him, are far more likely to acquire a devasting injury than position players. Another concern is he tries to do too much or gets frustrated with the current state of affairs and hurts himself "trying too hard" or overthrowing. He was all the way up to 97 MPH in a recent game...that's pretty unusual for him as a starter.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 24, 2013 -> 04:50 AM) The point is if you are going to be bad for a long time, like the Astros, Sale pitching ffor several years in meaningless games only increases his chances of getting hurt. He has already missed starts the last 2 seasons with soreness. So the other point would be, when you are ready to win, Sale would be more expensive and perhaps not nearly as effective. If it were a guarantee he would be healthy when the Sox were ready to win, you would not trade him, but pitchers, especially him, are far more likely to acquire a devasting injury than position players. Cano isn't talking about his contract publicly, but he has told friends that he'd like something in the neighborhood of a $275MM deal, reminiscent of Alex Rodriguez's deal. The Yankees aren't believed to be anywhere close to that, however, and at one point they suggested something closer to David Wright's eight-year, $138MM contract. The second baseman is the top ranked free agent on Tim Dierkes' 2014 Free Agent Power Rankings. While he's still having a strong year, his numbers are down from his 2012 campaign in which he hit .313/.379/.550 with 33 homers. We might want to forget about that Robinson Cano pipe dream right now. If we're going to spend our way back into contention, it's going to have to be veterans coming off of down seasons, injuries, aging veterans in the Utley mold that we're gambling have 1-2 good seasons left before going completely south. Along with the fact that Beckham and probably Viciedo (he will get at least one more year) are the two likeliest players right now to be around for 2014.

Ramirez, whose 12 errors equal his total in 2012, declined to speak after the loss and said he might reconsider Tuesday. This arguably was the Sox's most frustrating loss in an array of lows this season. This time the Sox (31-42) wasted four RBIs from Dunn while blowing leads of 4-0 and 6-4, largely because they stranded 10 runners and increased their season error total to 53 at the worst time. The loss merely heightened the speculation about personnel change after they missed a chance to earn their first series road sweep of the season. The eighth-inning errors marked the 12th time the Sox have committed two or more in a game. Crain, who trimmed the beard he had grown during the streaks, bobbled a bunt by Elliott Johnson that loaded the bases. The streaks ended when he walked Alex Gordon with two out, but he still had a one-run lead until Alcides Escobar hit a hard grounder that skipped past Ramirez to score the tying and winning runs. "(Ramirez) didn't catch it," manager Robin Ventura said. "That's it. That's why it's an error. (It gets a little tougher as the game goes on the field dries out and gets harder.)'' Second baseman Beckham, who hit a two-run double that put the Sox ahead in the seventh, came to Ramirez's defense. "It's frustrating, but that ball was hit pretty hard and this is a very hard field," Beckham said. "That ball hopped up a little bit, and we weren't able to get it. But it's not for a lack of trying." Crain, who last was charged with a run April 12 in Cleveland when Nick Swisher hit a game-winning double, accepted his share of responsibility. "It's baseball for you," Crain said. "I don't make a bunt play and I could have been out of it, (but) another ball finds a way to sneak through. You've got to have a lot of luck to have a streak like that. Guys make good plays behind you, and sometimes you have to battle through things. "Sometimes mistakes are made by me, most importantly." The biggest issue for the Sox could be how management intends to correct a series of failures that has stunted any semblance of momentum. At least Jesse Stones manned up and took responsibility for something that wasn't his fault. Did Chris Rongey also use the "hard field/tough hop" excuse? Or did he claim Alexei Ramirez was tired from playing every single inning this year and was losing focus/concentration? (Of course, that would be an attack on either Hahn or Ventura, implicitly). www.chicagotribune.com/sports (Gonzales)

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2013/0...rld-war-z-drama Very interesting article about all the studio friction, writers/rewrites and related conflicts over World War Z. This is an example of a "cursed" movie which was hounded by bad press and actually turned out to be very good in the end. Whether it can make back at least $400 million combined internationally/domestically, which is the break even point...should be pretty close. Brad Pitt wanted his own action tentpole, and they managed to pull it off pretty successfully, considering how many adaptations were made to the Brooks source material and the invention of Pitt's character, that didn't even exist in the book.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 08:46 PM) I don't know why we want to trade pitching. The goal is to get good again. To get good, we pretty much need to replace every one of our everyday position players. The pitching is fine. If we trade all our pitchers, we may never be good again, 15-25 years. The way to rebuild is get 3-4 position players through free agency for next season while keeping most of our pitching. If you want to trade one reliever and one starter, I guess I'm OK with that. How bout trading Crain for 2 outstanding prospects and trade Peavy if anybody wants him since he can't stay healthy. Repeat: Completely turn over our lineup; keep the pitchers. We're not the Royals quite yet. Or the Pirates, although they're having a a great season SO FAR.

Hawkins finished 0/4, 1 BB, 1 R, all the way back down to .183. 2 k's. 3/41 with 24 k's now on his current stretch. Thompson all the way up to 44 RBI's.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 06:53 PM) Put it this way: if you WIN the deal IMMEDIATELY on paper AND you appear to be better off because of that deal over the length Sale's contract, then yes, you trade him. And that doesn't happen when you are dealing in prospects. If there's a team ready to pay with a bunch of Major Leaguers then sure. Not going to happen though, especially when Price & Stanton are on the market for the right amount of talent back. Both BTW should be cheaper than Sale since Sale comes at cost certainty without the FA clouds hanging over his head (Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, Cubs? etc.) how many teams can or would dare to outbid those guys? With those $25 million dollar checks going out to all the teams, you might be surprised how many "not traditional" powers might get involved in bidding for their own superstar.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 05:23 PM) Buerhle, he was/is all heart, moxie, and smarts. His raw stuff has always been well below average yet he's been one of the most successful pitchers in the majors over the past 13 years Yeah, and I remember the Pirates comparing Matt Guerrier to Greg Maddux when he was acquired and gloating about how they were going to lose Marte from their 40 man roster anyway. That trade didn't exactly go their way, nor did the never-ending comparisons to Greg Maddux or Tom Glavine (any lefty that throws 87-91 MPH).

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 04:17 PM) Oh ok so its sort of a conspiracy theory that Rick Hahn isnt actually doing what he'd paid to do....got it. I'm still waiting for ONE SIGN this season that someone's being held accountable for the results we've seen consistently on the field (or lack thereof). Can you name one? They had a team meeting and additional fielding practice once. Wow. Problem solved.

That 13 minutes will be the same amount of time Chicagoans will be paying attention to the White Sox game Tuesday night with the Blackhawks Game 6 on. Maybe too generous.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 04:08 PM) If they can pull of something ridiculous like the trade someone suggested in another thread with the Cardinals then I'd have to think about it. Getting Tavarez CF, Adams 1B/DH, and Wong 2B (Beckham moving to 3B or SS) can potentially turn around this offense and still leave you with Peavy-Danks-Q-Santiago-Johnson/Axe/FA pickup. Nothing short of 2 young, cost controlled, ready, impact bats...and then some. Except that goes against EVERYTHING the Cardinals as an organization believe in. They're not under pressure to win another World Series like, say, the Cubs. St. Louis is definitely not in a position of desperation.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 04:03 PM) He won't be. But if the Cardinals come calling for someone to fill in for Jaime Garcia, and is willing to offer Taveras, Kolten Wong and two pitching prospects for Sale and maybe Alexei, I would have a hard time saying no. This would be a similar deal to the Rays/Royals trade this off season. Except the Rays only gave up Shields for 2 seasons. It's more like Edwin Jackson/Hudson-Holmberg (the Shields deal). Jackson has always been talented, but he's never been a pitcher you built your entire organization and future around, either.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 03:57 PM) Garcia is 22 & MLB ready. He's putting up numbers that, you are right, are not really "good" right now (.286/.328/.378 in 128 career MLB PA). But the only question on him really is the power, and if he finds that, you are talking about trading a closer for a potential all-star and our future RF. If Garcia was putting up power numbers he wouldn't be available at all, to anyone, outside of maybe a Stanton/Price deal or something of that order. To get a player who is already through the MiLB process with a very high ceiling and 6 years control, and seemingly with a pretty good floor as well, for a closer without extraordinary stuff? That's about as low-risk as it gets when it comes to big, potentially future-altering deals. It's much easier to "win" a closer deal than say a Peavy deal. I mean, if you think you can get a better player for Reed than that then great, I just don't think you can. And Castallenos, okay sure, but how realistic is it to expect a team's top prospect at the absolute height of his value for ANY of our players? See: Olt, Mike on this forum, as far as how a guy can go from "would you trade Sale for him?" to "I'd take him for Crain" in a few months time. Why is it even smart to buy unproven players at such a high price, even if you can? And that said, the Tigers may very well laugh us off the phone if we proposed Reed for Garcia. I'm just saying, MLB-ready position player who is young & has a very high ceiling is the type of player that you target if you're offering Reed, and if you get it offered to you, the deal should be done. They wouldn't laugh, but they're not quite ready to do it, either. OTOH, they acquired Torii Hunter to WIN NOW. Giving Garcia a chance to learn at the major league level wasn't the highest priority in that decision-making process (not unlike the same problems we had giving prospects time when every game/season we were playing for the playoffs, theoretically). And I don't think anyone expected Dirks to be quite so solid within their front office. Plus, Leyland absolutely loves Don Kelly, his favorite scrappy player now that Inge is gone. Not to mention Victor Martinez also blocks him getting a chance to hit at another spot in the line-up (granted, I would DH Hunter and put Garcia in RF most of the time).

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) This. We really know nothing. We don't have access to all these pro scouts, front office execs, etc. We had stats, little blurbs, second & third-hand old info, write-ups by people who never even watched the player, sometimes little snippets of video. But if you are in discussions with a team that needs a closer badly, and they offer say a SP prospect in AA who Don Cooper just LOVES, or a position player also very close who the organization is extremely high on & believes (regardless of what is out there in print) is a potential star & is going to see action this year, then you make that deal. You have to trust your personnel. You can't run an organization without risk. If Hahn, KW, Buddy Bell, Laumann, etc. all sign off on a prospect & all believe in that player then you have to have the balls to make that move. Even if it is the Tigers. In fact, I'd kind of like to see the competitive attitude & ballsiness that it would take to potentially hand the Tigers a WS in exchange for a better shot at beating them a couple years down the road. Like, we'll give you this help now, but 2 years & you're f***ed, we're coming for you. I'd like that. Of course, I'm not sure trading Delmon Young to the Tigers (helping them greatly) ended up making the Tigers feel the TWINS were "coming for them" exactly. It's got to be a prospect that's going to cost them a pretty price who goes on to become an All-Star. Like John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander. The kind of trade people in DET will be talking about 20-30 years later.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 21, 2013 -> 09:52 PM) Far as statistical and overall on-court (LeBron will never be as loved/popular) impact? Better? I wouldn't say that. Just as good? Definitely. If you want to break it up some and compare their individual skill-sets, etc, I see it like this: Getting to the rim and finishing: LeBron NOPE Ball-handling: Tie Post-game: MJ Mid-range: MJ Long-range: Tie (and I'm being generous here. Three of Michael's four best seasons from deep came when the 3-point line was moved in. Another year or two like '13 from LeBron, and he's got the edge) Rebounding: LeBron Passing: LeBron Defense: LeBron (his freakish size and versatility or the ability to guard every position on the floor well trumps Michael's insane on-ball defense) These are the things that you can either use stats or simply your eyes (though I'm sure some will disagree). I look at Kobe and the level he was playing at before his injury at age 34 and then think about LeBron, who's bigger, stronger, more athletic and injury-proof, and it's easy to project that he could very well still be the best player in the game at 34-35 if he plays until then (much like MJ). Another thing is that Jordan would absolutely hit clutch free throws at the end of games. LeBron can get jittery. Jordan would find the weakness in other teams psychologically and just exploit it...over and over again, offensively AND defensively. There's no way I'm going to agree that James plays better defense having watched most of his games from the time he was a freshman at North Carolina until the day he retired. No way. James still disappears at times in games....for large stretches, as well. And he defers to other teammates when he loses confidence. Or he tries to do it all himself and almost buried the Heat in Game 6 singlehandedly down the stretch trying to bull his way into the lane while out of control and frustrated. With Jordan, you never doubted him or believed that he wouldn't come through. You can't say that about James.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) Alan Bannister for all I care.... Please don't bring up Jerry Dybzinski, lol.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 03:42 PM) I believe Ramirez has played every inning at SS this season. I'm sure they'd love to dump him. I'm not sure who would take him. And who plays SS when he's gone -- Keppinger, Beckham, Sanchez, Morel??? No good option. It's time for a change. No doubt. But who do they change to? They're going to have to acquire a stopgap at the deadline or go to someone like Tyler Greene. Sanchez isn't close to being ready. Keppinger would be a disaster. If Beckham wasn't hitting so well, I'd consider trying him there, but don't want to mess with him. Morel, no way in Hades.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 23, 2013 -> 03:42 PM) I am not excusing Ramirez and his errors but it looked like to me that Jesse was having so hard of a time and threw a lot of pitches that Ramirez was back on his heels and not ready Thanks, Mr. Rongey. Just kidding, but that just about sounds like what he'd come up with. Or the fact that Ramirez has played every inning of every game so far this season and is wearing down physically.

Anderson's at least not being overwhelmed out of the gate. That's a huge positive.

NO. (Unless we want to rename ourselves the Florida White Marlins and merge with Loria's team in South Florida).