caulfield12

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 07:18 PM) That trade turned out to be a worse case scenario for the Sox, but they survived. I think it's a lot easier for a big revenue team to find a LF'er and closer (if that is what Reed turns out to be) than it is to get a SP the caliber of Gonzalez. BUT THEY'RE NOT GETTING GREINKE FOR MORE THAN 10 STARTS! You're acting like he's going to go all 1984 Rick Sutcliffe and roll to ten victories in a row. That's just not going to happen. They survived...and yet you keep calling for the GM's head, largely because of that trade (Swisher) and one would assume Hudson/Holmberg for Jackson, although what Daniel Hudson or Sergio Santos would be doing for us now, it's pretty self-explanatory. You came into this season saying Morel, Beckham, Reed, Viciedo and Molina needed to progress. You didn't include DeAza, but he's clearly become a steady contributor to the line-up as well, at virtually no cost. Only two of those things have happened, yet Quintana, Dunn, Rios, Youkilis, Nathan Jones, Peavy and others have more than compensated.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 07:04 PM) If the White Sox can justify and survive trading Gio Gonzalez for Swisher, they can withstand trading Viciedo and Reed for Geinke when a postseason birth is at stake. Berth. And they haven't survived particularly well. They're in the bottom 6-7 teams in attendance and haven't been in the playoffs for 3+ seasons. They need to be building for a sustained run, not a "one and done" type of situation where they're going to go into another downturn that's in between this season for the Sox and what the Cubs are currently going through. The Tigers are likely to be back in first place in another hour or so with Verlander. You can't make that kind of gamble with the Tigers looking stronger than ever. This will be a 15-3 run now. You're predicating this whole Zach Greinke to the rescue thing based on 2009's Cy Young season. He's more hype than reality. Sizzle over steak.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 05:43 PM) Gordon is a valuable guy to have on a team as the primary backup infielder. He can play plus defense at three positions and can step in as an experienced starter in case of injury. Plus he's still cheap. But next year he starts becoming more and more expensive. 1st year of arbitration eligibility. Law of diminishing returns/ROI.

He's an average baserunner. Wouldn't call him good, he's somewhere in between. He's made quite a few mistakes on the basepaths the last couple of seasons. AJ and Jose Valentin, for example, are/were much better, despite their lack of speed. I'm not sure where this "headiness" thing comes from.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 05:40 PM) If they don't make the postseason with or without Greinke, I think KW's time should be up. And if they do make the post-season, with or without Greinke, then he gets at least 2013 and 2014, agreed? Nobody expected the White Sox to be tied for first on July 26th, apparently, except for you. I don't think you would find anyone disappointed in the job he's done or thinking he should be fired based on this season...you can point to 10 positives and only a few negatives (Beckham, Humber, Morel, Danks)...

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 05:36 PM) Ditto. Let's give it a go now. And I sincerely doubt because we get Zach we are below .500 next year. Heck we were only suppose to win 64 games this year and we are going to hit that hopefully shortly. Give Kenny some credit look at how the team he put together is performing now. It helps we actually have a lineup that doesn't change daily. KW is smart and will not do anything that hurts us now or in the future. Let's say it's Viciedo/Reed/Quintana/DeAza....2 of those 4. And then another prospect like Salidino, second tier guy. Or possibly including Weeks for Beckham. If we didn't make the playoffs, we'd be hard pressed to keep Youkilis and AJ would be at least 50/50 staying or going. If you also lose Peavy, then there's no point in keeping Floyd just for one season at $9.5 million, unless it's just to trade him at mid-season. However, giving Floyd all those starts would block someone like Castro/Axelrod/Molina/Rienzo/Santiago. Trade Reed, and Myers is going to get to 45 appearances and his $10 million option kicks in, unless he just totally falters. That makes the rotation (theoretically): Sale Danks (maybe?) Floyd Humber Castro/Axelrod There's just no way to compete with the Tigers with that type of rotation. Then you're going to lose Floyd and the rotation looks even worse for 2014. A team with that much uncertainty (especially because of Danks) is looking at 72-74 wins, at most.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:16 PM) If the A's somehow win that division....wow, just wow Beane would definitely be GM/Executive of the Year, fending off the Rangers and the Angels with all their resource advantages. It probably won't last, but there are some great developing stories this year, like the Pirates and A's. They have a younger pitching staff than ours...or comparable. I'm almost positive their starting rotation is younger than ours. Other than Colon and McCarthy, few veterans.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 05:29 PM) Even if this is true, I'm fine with it. So you're okay with KW, no matter what the record and attendance are next year...if he goes for it with Greinke, they don't make the playoffs and Zach ends up with the Braves, Angels, Dodgers, etc.?? Because the last time "All In" failed, it took about 4 months into the following season for fans to start believing in that team again.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 05:07 PM) s***, I'm as cynical as they come. But if brother quinarvy has faith, I shall have faith. Alex Gordon is doing pretty good for himself lately. He was also the consensus #1 collegiate player of the year. Beckham wasn't quite at that level, that anyone considered him for the top pick in the first round.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 04:58 PM) Man, with all the Gordon talk lately, I feel like I'm gonna stand up for Gordon. When Bacon Slayer first came up, we got this: Great plate presence, drove the ball. Jeter thought he'd be the next big thing. Stone said he'd have a couple MVPs. He would only be "ok" defensively. Well, now he's elite defensively. The offense disappeared. But it was there and it shows flashes of returning. Kid is 25. He can turn it around. Crede wasn't a useful hitter until 2005, when he was 27. In his last year of arbitration. And we got two more years of Gordon cheaply, so there's time to turn it around. We don't need big offense from our #9 hitter, but his elite defense makes him useful. Rios has regained his All-Star form, so I believe Gordon can turn it around and become the Bacon Slayer once more. /optimism post. Apparently you don't consider a 741 and 714 OPS level of offense "useful." 19/75 and 21/69 HR's and RBI's in 2003 and 2004. We would die to get those numbers out of Beckham at this point.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) Sox fans must be still spoiled with the 2005 World Series if they are willing to pass on this golden opportunity because they don't want to sell the farm. Greinke is a difference maker at the top of the rotation. Does it guarantee a World Series, no, but neither does hanging on to Viciedo, Reed, or Quintana. All this talk about this package is too much, or that package is too much because it involves one or two of those three is in my opinion nonsense. The type of trades you're talking about would make it impossible to be much more than a .500 team next year. If they traded three young cost-controlled prospects, how are they supposed to field a decent team next year? They can't possibly afford to fill 3B, 2B, LF, C, at least one starting pitcher and a possibly a closer from outside the organization. If they were 4-6 games ahead of the Tigers, then it would have more validity. It's too much of a gamble because Greinke hasn't pitched any better than Peavy or Quintana, especially if you correct for the difference beween the AL and NL.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) Isn't Hanley the guy who cut his hand stupidly then wouldn't take the medicine so it got infected? He must be a piece of work. Yep. This trade didn't come from Ozzie, it was more Beinfest and Loria reaching their wit's end with him, in terms of playing up to his potential the last 2 1/2 years. A little like the Zambrano/Cubs situation, although maybe not quite so dramatic.

LOL. How is DeAza a true corner OFer? Those are sluggers like Dye, Quentin and Viciedo. The opposite is true, he's a decent CFer who puts up really nice numbers for that position/leadoff.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:20 PM) Like who? Chris Carter Michael Morse

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:30 PM) No point in arguing. Quentin was never good Alexei was never good Dye sucked Pods sucked Iguchi sucked Dayan's future is bleak De Aza sucks AJP is bad Bring in Trout-type players or you fail as a GM. Thome was one-dimensional and only K'ed, walked or homered, lol. Sounds familiar.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) What deadline did they put on the deal? Before his next start, which would be Sunday or Monday.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:26 PM) Honestly man, I can't say. I just get generalities no specifics. Guessing: Reed, Quintana & Saladino/Escobar - Greinke, cash? Escobar is of zero interest to another team....or about the same as Brent Lillibridge was to the Red Sox. Saladino makes a lot more sense as the 3rd piece. I wouldn't do it, but I'm not 100% sure KW would let it pass him by. It's the kind of trade that wouldn't kill the Sox, as they have Myers to replace Reed for the rest of the year, but I don't enjoy the idea of being locked into Myers as a $10 million closer next year. I would rather have Myers as a starter in 2013 (at $10 million). Same thing with Liriano....reliever/spot starter in 2012, full-time starter in 2013. That and the fact that you know Greinke will be gone.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:12 PM) I think KW wants to hold onto Quintana, he's a pleasant question mark. I think we know what we get out of Floyd. It also makes sense the Brewers would want Floyd over Quintana cause Floyd is atleast proven. Q is largely still an unknown. And IMO if the Brewers wanted to take a flyer on a potentially good prospect they will make a trade with a different team who can offer a better spect. I think the fact we are offering ML proven and ready players in return is what makes us attractive to Melvin. But the Brewers paying Floyd $9.5 million to rent for just one year versus about that same amount for Quintana for five years...the Brewers would definitely go for Quintana. They're not going to be in a position to compete next season in all likelihood losing Greinke....they need to look forward to 2014-15-16.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:04 PM) I just don't see the Sox EVER paying that much for a pitcher. I'd rather see a deal for someone else (Johnson, Buehrle, etc.). We're not going to be capable of giving the Marlins the type of package they want for Johnson without impacting the ML roster, so someone like Shields or Liriano might make more sense. Don't see the Marlins being willing to eat any money on Buehrle's deal until 2013 at the earliest. Maybe Loria will change his mind this last week.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:01 PM) And now he's on the DL. That leaves B'ham with 3 starting pitchers. Are they shutting Molina down for the rest of the season? Maybe he'll get a fresh start in the AFL, but they might be better off resting him all the way through ST. No winter ball. Fresh start in 2013.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:01 PM) Not if jones is included. Why would JR want to take on K-Rod's salary when odds are Nate Jones might actually be better down the stretch at the league minimum? And Jones could be a part of the future and grow up with the rest of the bullpen.

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) yes, let's overpay for a 2 month rental! if we trade Floyd for Greinke, and don't bring back Peavy next year the Sox might be able to afford to extend him right? You seriously want to pay Greinke $23 million per season for 5 years? Why?

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:55 PM) Guys relax, Kenny is not an idiot. He is not going go make a move that will significantly effect the team. Viciedo, Alexi, Reed, all are too important THIS year. They have valuable rolls they play. I'm pretty confident if this gets done we will be parting with Beckham+Floyd+ a spect or two for Grienke+ Weeks+ K-Rod IMO. That is a blockbuster and adds to the team significantly for THIS year. That's what I see happening if this happens. They have zero need for K-Rod with Myers and Crain and Jones. He's superfluous.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:44 PM) People were saying the same things about Crede in July of 2005 they are saying about Beckham now. He'll turn it around just like Joe did, only he'll be able to maintain it since his back actually works. When Gordon Beckham is our September/October (post-season) MVP, then we can talk. Crede was... 1) A much better power hitter 2) A much better clutch hitter, for example, getting runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs, Uribe and Crede were awesome 741 (2003) and 717 (2004) were his OPS numbers heading into 2005... Gordon's about 100 points below that. KW was also saying the same things about Torii Hunter and Brian Anderson...or about Josh Fields. Been there, done that.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:45 PM) You're scaring me man, you're making it sound like KW is ready to overpay in a big way. And not like "oh he's just throwing in an extra prospect" but "he's all in, putting in Viciedo, Floyd, and Reed." Please please don't be the case. Which means Jordan Danks is our new LFer and Brett Myers is our closer in 2013 at $10 million, with his 91-92 MPH fastball. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Wasn't the point of trading Santos that we don't have to pay a closer more than minimum salary? And then we're going to pay Myers like he's one of the 3-5 best closers in baseball when clearly he's not elite?? It also means we wouldn't be able to keep AJ or Youkilis for sure.