caulfield12

Flowers' swing is looking better, despite that K. He hit one HR distance to RF foul...he's obviously got power, it's just a matter of timing and repetition with that swing. Gordon must be reading all the threads on the Sox sites the last 48 hours.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 08:01 PM) Is anyone not a little concerned? That last one was 94. I think he's battling through it. If he was in pain, he wouldn't be out there, let's hope.

Quintana and Sale are stone cold assassins. Javy and Gavin and Danksy should be taking notes about how to man up in tough situations.

Great pitch. Had Beltre guessing change or curve. Hopefully Humber is taking notes. He's going to need his A curveball to survive.

This is a gutty performance. Like Quintana against the Yankees.

74 MPH? That's Takatsu territory.

Doesn't have the pitch to put away Kinsler tonight.... Uh-oh. Trouble a brewin'.

Viciedo, Dunn and Konerko all with huge opportunities to blow this one open. Oh, well.

Moyer/Buehrle/Glavine version of Sale. Reached back for 91. One would imagine if his elbow was hurting, he wouldn't be able to throw the slider/curve. Has to be the dreaded "dead arm" thing, and it's understandable. Quintana will probably go through it soon, too.

If everyone in baseball knows he's getting another MRI, so be it. They shouldn't leave him out there. KW or JR should call the dugout and order him to be pulled.

I don't understand why they're leaving Sale out there. Obviously something isn't right with his arm or elbow.

Harrelson again with the "IT'S ALL GOOD" call. That's going to get old and played soon. Cooper: Let's not give Chris Sale a lot of rope tonight. The pen is well rested.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 06:34 PM) Pull him, as he's clearly not 100% 1-2 more runs, they definitely need to pull him, even if it's only the 2nd inning.

Sale looks like he's going through a dead arm....really struggling. Velocity has been down a couple of MPH the last couple of times out.

Chris Carter with HR #7 in just 48 AB's. 5-1 A's over Orioles. Cespedes now hitting over .300 on the season.

One less big name crossed off the list. Down to Josh Johnson (maybe), Dempster, Shields (maybe), Garza (maybe, due to injury). Shields' innings pitched the last 3-4 seasons, and the 6+ ERA in this recent stretch really doesn't do much for this season at all. Would depend on what they're asking. The cost probably will be be prohibitive.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 04:46 PM) The part where this a subjective conversation. It is no different than the artibrary guidelines you set for what you value in the game. It's really why these discussions are kind of fascinating. Win now versus win later. How much adding X/Y/Z player helps to "guarantee" winning now vs. how much are you willing to sacrifice of the future...? Surely, these trade discussions and best organization discussions would all be quite different had the White Sox never won the World Series. Probably, many would be for trading Viciedo or Quintana to get a Greinke or Shields or Josh Johnson to "put the Sox over the top." You can't argue with the Yankees' 27 championships, any more than you could argue with Manchester United or the Montreal Canadiens or the Lakers/Bulls/Celtics/Heat. That doesn't necessarily make an organization "best"...it might be the most successful in terms of wins and losses, but that's not always the same to many people. To some, winning championships, that's all that matters. Or look at Penn State, for a collegiate example....where the desire to win and protect the reputation of an entity (the program) corrupts the enterprise from within. To others, it means taking a team from the basement into the playoffs or taking a low-budget team and advancing past the super-organizations. We all love the Cinderella story. One only needs to watch March Madness to see how prevalent that viewpoint is in society today.

QUOTE (northside sawx @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 04:48 PM) I wonder who is the lone voter for the royals /green I doubt it's Greg775. But could be. Maybe he feels sorry for Dayton Moore not receiving a vote.

QUOTE (35thstreetswarm @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 05:13 PM) Great poll. Here's another one - "Biggest thing in Chicago" Water White Sox People Families Aon Center Fire Eliminated Willis Tower, Merchandise Mart, McCormick Place, and the City of Chicago to make it interesting. No definition of "biggest".....most mass, coolest, thing you like the most, furthest away, loudest, spiciest, etc. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How about you define what makes the best organization? You seem pretty bright and perceptive. Have at it. Am waiting with bated breath for your delineation, parameters or demarcation...since I'm sure there is universal agreement on every aspect of baseball operations here, and it's very much a consensus-oriented crowd at SoxTalk. Just trying to spark a little baseball discussion on a Friday afternoon, it's not the Inquisition. But please tell me who you think has the best organization and why. Okies?

QUOTE (TheCut87 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:05 PM) I was talking about taking a chance on him before the trade deadline ends i think if he is dealt it will be before the tuesday not during waiver period...if it is just fluid build up and the MRI was good to go, would KW trade for him now hoping this issue goes away in a week or two now knowing that he can get him possibly cheaper If I was KW, I'd be talking to people with the Twins and D-Backs organizations and finding everything I could about Garza's supposed character issues. Might be a non-starter, might actually be an AJ or Everett situation where he fits in.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:00 PM) Not to mention, not White Sox related I put the White Sox as one of the teams on the list. There's no way I could include more than 10 teams...if you want to change the polling system to have all 30 teams included, you're more than welcome to do so.

QUOTE (TheCut87 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 01:58 PM) Does KW try and get him for cheap? Seems like a KW type of move to me. He is under team control for another year, so it would be pretty close to impossible to get him through the lower teams on waivers... On the other hand, they might be scared off by the injury risk or not have the money to pay Garza next year. Interesting situation for many teams like the A's, Rays, Orioles, Indians, etc.

If the Dodgers keep lowballing the Cubs, you definitely go after Dempster if you're KW. At least you try, even if there's not a match.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 01:41 PM) Why is Greinke considered better than Dempster? The same reason we should have traded Viciedo and Ramirez at different points in the last 6-8 months. Just a feeling. Certainly not based on him being a post-season ace or having a track record of pitching in an AL pennant race. He's a one year wonder who has put up very solid numbers since, but his reputation is more bark than actual bite, sizzle over steak.

It's all good. Roll with Humber for 1-2 more starts. You don't let Hernandez, Castro or Axelrod start again. You wait for all the first tier guys to be traded at the deadline and just patiently blow up the prices for those guys without pulling the trigger. Shields has too much wear and tear on his arm from all the deep playoff runs to take a risk on committing to him long-term. Josh Johnson, same concerns, even more expensive to acquire. That leaves you just needing to win a war of attrition with the A's, Rays, Orioles, etc. At best, you take the division. At worst, you have Chris Sale for one game against Weaver or Darvish/Harrison/Holland. Right now, you're diligently identifying all those guys like Liriano, maybe Garza (because of the injury) or Maholm, Vargas, Blanton, Kevin Correia from the Pirates, Jorge DeLa Rosa...you find two of those guys that Cooper really likes (having perhaps identified a simple mechanical fix) and bring them in to audition for 2013. None of those guys would be starters that would be offered $12.5 million or more in arbitration. So basically, you've got a three-pronged approach. 1) You preserve Sale, Peavy and Quintana so they're able to go late into the season and post-season 2) You still have the option to use Danks but you don't have to force him into the rotation if he's not ready 3) You have the luxury to audition Floyd, Liriano and starter #6 for the 2013 team. One of the better second tier pitchers, you can trade them Humber + a prospect (15-30) to acquire that guy. The other one, you can use your depth of relief pitchers in combination with Johnson/Snodgress/Rienzo/Molina/Castro/Hernandez/Santiago. It's going to be a BIT tricky passing pitchers through waivers, but not every team competing for the playoffs has the financial flexibility we do because of the Myers/Youk trades AND because of possible insurance money on the Danks contract. There's no pitcher that we could reach a consensus would be the ace to push in front of Sale for a possible Wild Card sudden death playoff game, agreed? Not Greinke, based on this season, not Cliff Lee, not Shields. Chris Sale would obviously be the starter against the Rangers or Angels, so Greinke's not worth nearly as much as we're making it out to be because he's only going to get 4-5-6 starts at USCF, and it won't affect our bottom line of revenue THAT much once kids go back to school in mid-August. You can accomplish all of this without having to give up Viciedo, Floyd, Quintana, Reed and maybe even Jones. You might have to give up Walker/Mitchell/Thompson/Saladino. In the end, those two additional starters give you lots of insurance, they prevent having to go to a minor leaguer again in the stretch drive, they protect Sale/Peavy/Quintana, they allow you to match-up with opposing teams week by week and they really solidify the back half of your pen with veteran experience when/if Danks does come back. There's always the possibility Myers likes it here and we decide to keep him instead of Floyd for 2013, but to use as a starter again. This preserves all kinds of financial flexibility going into 2013 and doesn't commit us to someone we don't want to be stuck with going forward.