caulfield12

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 08:54 PM) I disagree with that...and if he does, he won't be playing here... My guess is if we do make an offer it would be 1/3 that amount.... I'll guess $25-40 million, we'll split the difference and say $32.5 million, a notch above Chapman's deal.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 08:30 PM) I guess my point is this guy has been hyped a lot before the bidding started. If he were that great, then the Phillies and Yankees would be forking over the cash. It sounds as if the Yankees don't have much interest, or won't bid a lot for him. Maybe this guy is very good, and he wants to come to the Sox just because of Alexei and Viciedo. We'll see. They already have Gardner, Granderson and Swisher for their OF. Pitching is a more critical need, both starting and bullpen.

We outbid 10-12 teams for Viciedo, we had the advantage of the relationships already built with Ramirez and Contreras at that time to use to our advantage. This guy's going to be getting $45-65 million, blowing away the Aroldis Chapman money. I would be a BIT surprised, but not entirely shocked, to see it happen. At this point, dumping Quentin's salary and freeing playing time for Viciedo is more important than what we get back in return via trade. With Cespedes and Viciedo for the corner OF spots, Rios in CF and DeAza/Lillibridge as back-ups, that would give the team a lot of talent and depth. And Cespedes would be in AA to start out with, anyway. Possibly, Konerko could be dealt to free up 1B for Viciedo, with Cespedes/Rios/DeAza/Lilli the outfield. (Albeit not very likely as a scenario.) Theoretically, Viciedo could take all the DUNN DH ab's against LHP and split the rest of his AB's with DeAza in the event of a Cespedes acquisition, but any scenario where Viciedo's not in the everyday line-up isn't ideal for the future. Of course, there's a very good possibility Lillibridge could be needed at 2B if Beckham continues to flop. He also provides insurance/depth (along with Martinez and Escobar) at SS and 3B.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) He would start off in AAA and the Cuban leagues are Independant league level, low A at best. Split the difference. Definitely not Low A. Otherwise, one of their less-heralded prospects in Alexei Ramirez couldn't just show up in the big leagues out of thin air (and thin frame) and have such a major impact. Most put the level at somewhere between High A and AA. Cespedes would undoubtedly start in AA Birmingham, were he to be signed.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 05:34 PM) That would be dumb. The White Sox are almost certainly not going to be competitive this year, Carlos Quentin has proven to be an inconsistent, injury prone power hitter who is a bad defensive player. He is not a building block and the White Sox, without another single move, will be able to field a competent outfield without him in it. The difference in value between Quentin and Danks is extreme. One is a run of the mill outfielder who will hit a few homers and not much more and the other is a bonafide #2 starting pitcher with the capabilities of being a #1. Beyond any of that, the White Sox have Viciedo waiting in the wings, so Quentin's presence is not a necessity. With how much certainty can you say we're not going to be competitive this year? Stranger things have happened, like 2000, 2005 and 2008. All of those seasons came out of low or lowered expectations. I'm not going to Vegas and betting on it happening, but you can never completely count the Sox out of the AL Central race any season either. But yeah, Viciedo has to play everyday, period.

We also control Alexei Ramirez through 2016. Even moreso than Danks, is he a centerpiece we continue to build around or do me maximize whatever we can get for him now in one of those Sizemore/Phillips/Cliff Lee type blockbuster deals...?

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/6848/deunte-heath He was a starter at Charlotte all last season...did anyone see him pitch there? He was protected over a lot of guys that were more "famous" in our minor league system with the resident experts.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 05:56 AM) Keith Law is a jagoff. Maybe the problem was they offerred Danks around and didn't like the return they would get, so they decided to re-sign him. Maybe the plan was to trade him and make a run at him when he became a free agent. We probably will never know, but Mr. Law fails to see Danks is probably more attractive to teams with top prospects now as opposed to a guy who may be around only one year. Something’s missing between the reality of where the Cubs are going to be the next two or three years and what some expect next season. Think of it this way: Any player who isn’t certain to be here and helping the Cubs in a significant way in three years is absolutely expendable if he can bring the Cubs something of value in return. The Cubs aren’t going to give away any reasonable assets, but Garza could net a huge package, so they’re shopping him to see just how big that could be. If they can’t get enough, the Cubs won’t do it and they’ll be happy to have Garza stay here and start for them, revisiting trades again in July and next off-season. Garza will be 30 and a free agent in two years if the Cubs don’t trade him or lock him up long term before that. If he remains on the roster, they have time to decide whether they want to do that. But in the meantime they will consider all the options — only one of which is trading Garza for a package of players that helps them build for the future. The deal Baseball America is out with its top 10 Rays prospects and ranks shortstop Hak-Ju Lee No. 2 and righty Chris Archer No. 3, projecting Archer as Tampa’s future closer. Both were acquired from the Cubs in the Matt Garza deal a year ago. dailyherald.com

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 02:01 AM) Kenny should be fired over the Sergio trade unless Addison is the real deal as closer. There have been 5 moves he could have been fired for in the last 3 years. However, let's wait on the lynch mob foaming at the mouth until at least July 31st. What would you define as the "real deal," by the way? 30 for 36 equates to 83.3%, a notch below very good level for a closer. On the other hand, I think we lost either 5 or all 6 of those games, so those losses were not only blown saves but catastrophic blows to the team's momentum. Probably at least 40-50% of blown saves result in tie games or the blown game eventually being recovered, especially at home. Cost controlled young/quality starting pitching >>> any closer not named Rivera/Nathan in prime/Hoffman, etc. So there are two things to watch...what we do with the money saved on Santos (Reed has to stick as an effective shutdown closer) and how Molina develops. Even if Molina didn't become a starter in the major leagues, this trade could still end up a (slight) plus for the Sox...although most would acknowledge it's all predicated on Molina's eventually contributing as a #2/3 starter in the bigs.

QUOTE (MAX @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 02:32 AM) I love this more than greg loves ozzie. Because I see this working out very favorably for the white stockings. More than the customers at Applebee's, Chili's and TGI Friday's in Lawrence, Kansas, love Ozzie? Well...if he's traded, he brings a TON back now. If he stays, that's better for the stability of the franchise and allows us to be more competitive. Either way, it's a win/win unless KW botches a possible trade terribly.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 01:30 AM) Fangraphs Right there in the article, there's a big discrepancy between saying one year/two years left on his contract. Seems the author was misinformed. There wasn't a strong comparison to Latos at that time, clearly. As far as comparing to Billingsley and Wandy Rodriguez goes, whatever...especially in the case of Rodriguez. There was a lot of talk the Astros would simply non-tender him and let him walk away for nothing last year. At the worst, it's a "fair" contract. At best, it's a very very good one for a pitcher just approaching the prime of his career, and a lefty to boot. Having two lefties (along with Sale) in the rotation gives it a good balance. http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/12/21/2654092...x?sct=mlb_t2_a3 Those offers might not have been as strong for Danks — he’s older and only under team control for two seasons one season Second, comparing $30 million for 3 years and $65 million for 5 years, and saying he's NOT worth $30 million more than those guys is horrible math. He should be asking is Danks worth $3 million more per season. He also neglects to mention the fact that Danks was going to be getting paid $8-10 million after arbitration anyway heading into this season.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,2242728.story http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/...ion-source-says

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 11:12 PM) I mean JR was probably like WHATWHATWHAT when he heard KW say the r-word. We reload, not rebuild. Wrong R.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 11:10 PM) Right now I'm confused at what the Sox plan is but my guess is you don't resign Danks to move Floyd. You need starting pitchers and with Peavy coming off the books a year from now you can still build a rotation around Danks/Floyd. Is it a great rotation, no, but could be solid, depending on what happens with Molina, Sale, etc. I imagine the Sox will move Quentin for the right price and if they got the right offer for Floyd would make a trade as well (key being the right offer). In general, I'm really confused right now. If you get Cepedes and go with this than I wonder what the Sox plan really is? They would seem to be getting younger but they are still in a bind with Peavy/Rios/Dunn. Those three truly put the Sox in a real bad spot. If I were to guess, the Sox are going to look at moving Alexei, Thornton, and Quentin. I'm probably talking out of my butt, but all make decent returns, are close to or on the wrong side of 30, and could command pretty good value in return. Except Konerko was on the wrong side of 30 a long time ago. Same with AJ. It would make more sense to move him (Paulie) than Ramirez, because Viciedo/Dunn could play 1B. Who would play SS? Beckham? Escobar? Martinez? YUCK. There's no easy replacement/solution for dealing Thornton (of course, we can get some nice pieces back in return that might fill that need too).

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 11:09 AM) How does Detroit have bullpen issues? Valverde/Benoit/Coke/Dotel is pretty damn good. If they have bullpen issues, then I don't want to know what you'd call our bullpen once Thornton gets traded. Because that should have been a strength of ours coming into 2006....and look how long that lasted. Valverde will be perfect again? How likely is that? Benoit has been pretty darned erratic for most of his career before becoming essentially their version of Jesse Crain. Coke and Dotel don't scare anyone. Solid and experienced veterans? Sure, but we have the same in Crain, Frasor and Ohman.

International Scouting College/HS Scouting Advance Scouting of other team's journeymen Cy Young-ish starters against us, or soft tossers under 90 MPH, or lefties for many years Minor League Scouting (Paddy seems to have quickly become a key piece already with Stewart and Molina coming over)

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:52 PM) Yeah, that could be Cy...I agree that overall, Gavin may be worth more on the trade market, but my guess is they would fetch about the same thing right now...one solid prospect. The better play may be to take Gavin with you into the season and see where our club goes and see what kind of market develops for him in June. It's just so difficult to speculate right now because we don't know where they need to be on payroll. The best guesses out there are $95 on the low side, $105-110 on the high side.

QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:50 PM) Could this be an extension that has been agreed to by another team? Similar to the Freddy Garcia acquisition...

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:35 PM) Kenny's rebuilding is going to be the following. Attaching tradable chips to boat anchors hoping someone takes them. Asking ridiculous returns for players. Then saying f*** it. Lets go for it. ALL IN 2.0 Wonder how much of this is coming from the marketing/ticket sales side of things? One would hope the renewed optimism on the Northside isn't the cause.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:34 PM) I'm the only one to see Thornton being the first one moved? Hmm. I kind of think that Kenny might move Thornton and then decide not to rebuild. Buehrle, Pierre, and Thornton might be the only subtractions. And Santos, Pena, Vizquel, Castro, Edwin Jackson, Teahen, etc. That's turning around 35-40% of the roster in the span of 6 months.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 10:41 PM) Simply because most people with jobs dont have the time to watch minor league players and actually rate them, so there is very little way to know if he actually has a clue. When it comes to things that a normal person can actually watch and compare, Keith Law really is not beuno. He's worth about as much as a combinacion platter at TACO BUENO.

Does Cowley really live with his mom still? He seems like the type.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:37 PM) There was a rule that if a player with 6+ years of service time was traded with 2+ years left on a contract, the player had a right to demand a trade to another team after a year. It's how the Sox ended up with Javy Vazquez. IF that rule is still in the new CBA, it pretty much guarantees that no team is going to be trading for Danks because there's too much risk that he forces his way out in a year. Then there's no way JR signed off on that deal...it's too much of a financial risk. There has to be some type of out with the new CBA to make trading such contracts more flexible.

The next question is whether any season tickets will be sold as a result of this? We can definitely assume losing Buehrle, Ozzie and the 2011 season being what amounts to a complete debacle has cost roughly 20+% of the season ticket base (Rios/Peavy/Dunn/Beckham flops, etc.). Anyone with inside knowledge in the marketing/F.O. about where things stand with renewals and any new season ticket packages being sold?

QUOTE (heirdog @ Dec 21, 2011 -> 08:25 PM) Santos was just a tick below Jenks...just like Massett we'll learn later that means an annoying biting bug that lives in Jenks' nether regions and not his stuff... Danks is much more proven and deal could be considered slightly below market so whether he pitches only 2 years of it or more, I'm good with it. Except he does have one of the best sliders in the game...Masset had a fairly pedestrian, quite overhyped fastball and overall arsenal. Heck, Jon Adkins came to the Sox with a 7 or 8 ERA in AAA and they got away with hyping his stuff like he was going to be the next Cy Young winner, along with Felix Diaz and Jeff Marquez morphing into Greg Maddux/Matt Guerrier.