caulfield12

Depends on how much salary they have to eat and how much other talent (Thornton/Danks/Quentin) they have to give up. Most would agree that Rios is as close as you can get to a negative "net presence" (especially sulking on the bench, in what looks to be his future role)...but how much is JR willing to eat from his wallet for KW's mistake? It has to sting even more when we undoubtedly could have sold high on him this offseason. Yeah, hindsight being 20/20 and having no replacement beyond DeAza/Danks/Lillibridge, obviously that was a big part of the reason the move wasn't made, too.

A full-on youth movement buries KW more than serving as an indictment of Ozzie. The Teahen trade/s, benching Rios for DeAza...you can't really argue that these are meant to cover up anything that Ozzie has any actual control over. Let's say they go with Viciedo, DeAza, Milledge/Danks/Lillibridge (some combination) in 2012. KW would have to answer for that more than Ozzie. If you look at every single move besides Humber/Santos (not even really trades)...and sure, you might as well include Viciedo if you really stretch it into the KW "plus" column, he's had a long string of demonstrably bad trades and talent assessments.

Yeah, interesting to see if the Phillies/Braves and some of the other rumored Quentin destinations turn out now with Beltran off the market. If Upton's legitimately dangling out there, I would think opposing GM's have a helluva decision because there's so many variables with both Quentin and Upton.

With our offense (as is), you want the guy most likely to limit the other team to 0-2 runs. That's Danks. If you're going for the starter most likely of all to pitch well enough (no matter his stuff) to keep you in the game, then you go Buehrle. With our lack of playoff history, it's probably a better idea to try to take Game 1 and then roll the dice.

Sale better go to Charlotte in the next couple of weeks if they plan on that happening. Just don't see it with how well he's MOSTLY done the last couple of months....especially considering KW might trade Thornton. If his ERA kept climbing to 5 (six weeks ago), then you could see no legit reason not to commence the starting experiment ASAP.

Then we better get some offense out of 3B if we're going to roll with that kind of inexperience in the OF. I can't imagine strong season ticket renewals unless there's at least one significant improvement made somewhere coming into 2012.

KC pitching sucks against the entire AL with the exception of the White Sox Chen will be showing up in KW's offseason nightmares. Maybe Walker's, too.

We can't move Rios unless.... 1) Quentin/Danks/Thornton (possibly 2 of them) are involved 2) We get back a legit CFer as part of the trade...a Rasmus level of player who's fallen out of favor and would still be under club control for 3-4 years. 3) If we give up that level of talent, we shouldn't pay more than $12-15 million of what's left on Rios' deal 4) If you subtract Quentin, you're not going to get enough offense out of Viciedo/DeAza and ??? (Milledge) unless we're getting other players back (CF/pitching/3B)

Danks, with how well he's pitched recently. The problem is you don't want Danks/Buehrle back-to-back, and that leaves you deciding between Peavy/Humber/Floyd to start in between them. If Peavy ever gets his stuff and stamina back, you have to go with Peavy (#2). Probably Humber (at this exact moment), but his last couple of starts have been shaky, and Floyd's Version 1B/2A of Edwin Jackson. It's saying something that we still have 5 (and recently 6) guys you could easily argue should be starting 1-2-3 in a playoff rotation. Of course, there are PLENTY of legit arguments against all 3 of our righties. Peavy, Humber and Floyd.

The Tigers need: At least one stater....after Verlander, Scherzer, Porcello...Penny's more and more questionable and Coke was pulled from rotation To decide how long they can stick with Ordonez as their #3 hitter If Guillen can keep hitting, they're set for the rest of this season at 2B, although they're giving up something defensively. LOTS OF BULLPEN help needed in front of the big guy. I keep hearing he's (Frasor) a Type B free agent but Cot's has us with a club option for $3.75 in 2012 should we choose to exercise that option....which I would be shocked if KW didn't.

And those guys were also moved because of their size and diminishing range. You don't take a position of strength and make it a potential weakness. If you moved Ramirez there and played Escobar, your offense would be killed. And you're simply not going to get a young SS with anything like the upside offensively/defensively with what we already have in Alexei. Not unless we package Danks/Quentin/Thornton in some kind of mega-deal.

baseballamerica trade summary....it has probably been posted but I just got back from Bali and haven't read through the whole thread and might never make it!!! To kick things off, the White Sox traded Jackson and third baseman Mark Teahen to the Blue Jays for Stewart, a promising command-oriented pitching prospect, and veteran righty reliever Jason Frasor, who chews up righthanded batters (.226/.301/.349 in 1,054 career confrontations) but shows no extreme platoon split. Chicago saves more than $8 million in future salary commitments in the transaction, most of the savings resulting from Teahen's $5.5 million salary for 2012 coming off the books. His production, as measured by OPS+, has dropped precipitously in the last three years, falling from 94 in 2009 to 90 in 2010 to 60 so far this season. Remarkably, the 27-year-old Jackson has been traded four times previously, by the Dodgers, Rays, Tigers and Diamondbacks. Not even the magic touch of White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper could help him find the consistency necessary to perform like a steady No. 2 starter this season. Coveting Rasmus, the Blue Jays packaged the newly-acquired Jackson with three others players (plus as many as three more players to be named) to St. Louis for the 24-year-old center fielder who will qualify for arbitration for the first time this offseason. Rasmus has undeniable talent, but he clashed with Cardinals management by, allegedly, requesting a trade on multiple occasions and favoring the hitting advice offered by his father rather than St. Louis coaches. "He doesn't listen to the Cardinal coaches much now, and that's why he gets in these funks, in my opinion," former manager Tony La Russa told MLB.com. ". . . But I actually feel concern for him, because he hears it from so many places, he's got to be confused." Sounds a lot like NICK SWISHER. White Sox Acquire Zach Stewart, rhp Age: 24. Born: Sept. 28, 1986 in Wichita Falls, Texas. Ht.: 6-2. Wt.: 205. Bats: R. Throws: R. School: Texas Tech. Career Transactions: Selected by Reds in third round of 2008 draft; signed June 8, 2008 ... Traded by Reds with 3B Edwin Encarnacion and RHP Josh Roenicke to Blue Jays for 3B Scott Rolen, July 31, 2009. Club (League) Class W L ERA G GS SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP New Hampshire (EL) AA 5 5 4.20 16 16 0 94.1 106 49 44 6 27 74 1.41 Toronto (AL) MLB 0 1 4.86 3 3 0 16.2 26 9 9 2 5 10 1.86 Stewart works quickly and throws four pitches for strikes, making him a future mid-rotation candidate for Chicago. His fastball features sinking and tailing action at 88-92 mph, while his quality low-80s slider functions as his No. 2 pitch. Stewart worked in a mid-80s changeup more frequently this season with New Hampshire, and he sells the change of pace with good arm speed. He also surprises opponents with a seldom-used curveball. Jason Frasor, rhp Age: 33. Remaining Commitment: $3.5 million salary for 2012 (approximately $1.166 million remains), plus $3.75 million club option for 2012. Contract details courtesy of Cot's Baseball Contracts. Club (League) YEAR W L ERA G GS SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP Toronto (AL) 2011 2 1 2.98 44 0 0 42.1 38 15 14 4 15 37 1.25 3-Year Totals 12 8 3.08 174 0 15 163.2 142 62 56 12 58 158 1.22

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:56 PM) I really get goosebumps when I hear the Sox say that about a pitcher. Didn't they also say that about Marquez, Grilli and Van Benschoten? Joking. The happiest event of the day is KW announcing that Rios will be taking a backseat to DeAza. A couple of months too late, but better now than never.

QUOTE (kapzk @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:44 PM) Zach stewart is no longer a pure power arm... having the luxary to live in Toronto, I get all the Jays game, so I have seen him pitch a couple of times. He is now more of a command type pitcher with more movement to the fastball. It pretty much sits from 88-91mph. He wasn't horrible nor amazing in his stint in the big leagues. Obviously one game he messed up but the other two outings were decent. all I remember from one game was the commentators saying how he wasn't hit hard just the hits found the hole. He seems to be an okay pitcher, #3-4 type guy, pretty good that we could nab him from the Blue Jays while surrendering Teahen. While I am at, Frasor is a good reliever, who I hope can be with the Sox beyond his contract at the right price ofcourse. He has a fastball that is 93-95, and good off speed stuff. One of the more consistent guys out of the Jays pen. We have a club option on Frasor at $3.75 million for 2012. Would be shocked if KW 1) didn't turn around and trade Frasor OR 2) keep Frasor through 2012 and get the comp pick back OR hold out for another deadline trade next season. With Santos, Crain, Frasor and Bruney, the RH side of the bullpen certainly looks much improved from the first 3 months of 2011. Then you have Reed/Infante as well. Letting Tony Pena go, we'll shave some money off the payroll (along with Jackson/Teahen) but picking up about 1/3rd of it back with Frasor's deal.

1 year/$3.5M (2011), plus 2012 club option accepted Toronto's offer of arbitration as free agent 12/10 re-signed by Toronto 1/28/11, (avoided arbitration, $3.725M-$3.25M) 11:$3.5M, 12:$3.75M club option This sets the bullpen up very well for 2012. $3.75 is a BIT expensive, but this brings a potential Matt Thornton trade into play to go cheaper (for 2012) and get a pretty darned elite prospect back (Stewart). Of course, you also have the option of dangling the Frasor/Crain chips on the market and seeing who'll bite. Probably means Sale stays in the bullpen. Santiago MAYBE then serves as the second lefty. Bruney has been throwing well recently, so you've got Crain, Santos, Frasor and Sale as the back end of the bullpen....with the likes of Reed/Infante pushing up from the bottom. One thing to consider is that Mark Teahen is now the 4th highest paid player on the Blue Jays. Getting out from under that contract was huge...and then we got Zach Stewart, who's in line to join the rotation...or stay in the pen, with Santiago/Sale possibly as the fifth starter. Lots of options now for KW. Of course, the biggest and most pressing issue is what to do with 3B in a pennant drive. Right now, Thornton's probably your best trade chip left, assuming Quentin, Danks and Buehrle are off the market. All things considered, it's not a bad deal at all. And we weren't really positioned to make any kind of play for Rasmus since we're stuck with Rios. Putting Rios back in RF would have made his value doubly suspect... Of course, you hate to lose Jackson right when he was beginning to go on another of his patented runs, but conversely, it was probably a good time to maximize what KW could get out of his and erase the Teahen contract from the books. That, alone, has a pretty big value for us.

The Tigers deserve this one...simply because they were smart enough to make the move for Betemit, whereas we've done nothing about Dunn/Rios/3B all season long to improve those positions. Hand it to Illitch to admit Inge was a bad contract and move on. Gotta admire the Tigers for that.

One out. AJ better jack a homer because no way Rios is doing a thing.

Return to find us trailing...wasn't surprised with the 3 runs in the sixth, that was inning was crystal clear EVEN for that Octopus that predicts the World Cup. Surprised to see the bullpen let us down, though. Seems to be our trend in big games/situations.

Goodbye, going swimming, this is not worth our time if our manager can't predict something all of us can see 10,000 miles away. Just fire Ozzie and get it over with, please.

Predictable. Two batters too late.

Walden survived, K by Kipnis after LaPorta DP ball.

DP ball in CLE. 2nd/3rd, 2 outs. Kipnis with a chance for two walk offs in a row.

Looks like the Indians are going to do it AGAIN. Bases loaded, no outs....in the bottom of the 9th, down by 1.

Rios and Teahen both approaching the dish with a .207 average and sub 600 OPS. How are we even in this division race? Pitching, pitching and pitching.

Who do you go with in the 6th? Too early for Crain. Humber? Sale? Thornton? This is where we could use that other RHR. Bruney? In what is arguably the biggest game of the season to this point? Ozzie will be tempted to leave Jake in because the 5th went by uneventfully.