caulfield12

I think the Sale conversion-to-starter thing is far from a done deal at this point. That's clearly where he has the most value to the White Sox, and after Royce Ring and Aaron Poreda in the first round, it would certainly be much better for the future of the White Sox if he could stand up to the wear-and-tear of starting.

I would even drink V-8 and Tang for a year if we could go 11-7 against the Twins.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 08:19 AM) This team is sooo frusterating. We have pleanty of pitching. But our offense has underachieved for over 3 months. When will someone be held accountable for Adam Dunn's and Alex Rios' horrible seasons? Obviously Greg Walker will never be fired, its obvious that Guillen is losing his passion for managing this team. Whatever happened to putting the best players out there on a given night? When Ozzie first started, he would never tolerate this crap. Now its almost as if he "has" to let Dunn and Rios play because of their contracts. Guys like Lillibridge and Viciedo would give us a much better chance to win over Rios and Dunn and yet- he isn't pulling the trigger on that move. The AL central has also dominated us for the past year and a half. When you are trying to win a division, you NEED to play over .500 vs your division rivals. We are freakin 7-14 vs the central this year. Last year we were 32-40. That is garbage. We are not going to win this division or let alone come close to making the playoffs being dominated by our own weak division like we are. What do i want to happen? Make some moves! Bench guys! Bring up Viciedo. Let Lillybridge spend more time our in CF. Make some trades, starting thinking about the future. Obviously we are stuck with guys like Dunn and Rios. But we can definitley get some value back for guys like Edwin Jackson and Carlos Quentin. Agree with most of what you're saying, except the ship has already sailed on Lillibridge as an everyday player. He can't hit RHP to save his life recently, his swing is getting longer and longer and he's just not making any contact with RISP (3 bases loaded situations come to mind right off the top of my head). He needs to learn how to be a contact hitter and use that speed to his advantage, but he's looking more and more like the adoped progeny of Elijah Wood and Chris Getz yet with a much bigger bat (it seriously is almost as tall as him!) and swing the last 2-3 weeks. You can get away with Lilly platooning against LHP with DeAza playing against righties. That's the best countermove we have to make for Rios at the current moment.

Therein lies the dilemma. That was always the problem for Clayton Richard when he was with us, if I remember correctly. That and throwing away about 38% of the balls he actually was able to make a play on in the infield down the RF line.

Nope. Ledge jumping can't commence until the conclusion of Sunday's games.

QUOTE (SpainSOXfan09 @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 12:51 AM) We just never really got going. That mini streak where we just hit .500 is just about as good as it is gonna get. I don't see us even being an over .500 team to be honest. Not with this many issues. Rios will continue to be Rios and is a wash. Ain't nobody gonna eat that contract unless we take an equally bad contract back. Luck in MLB has run its course with the Blue Jays unloading their garbage contracts on us and the Angels (with Wells although I think they kicked in some cash or players). I don't think lightning in a bottle will strike again and we can unload Rios on somebody. If I am not mistaken the only thing we can do is put him through waivers and see if somebody nibbles. My hope would be some desperate NL team with a friendly hitter park (if that even exists). As far Dunn I read in another post someone mentioning him to retire. If we got so miraculously lucky at the end of the year and he finshed with an I dunno .175 BA do MLB rules allow us to get out of the contract if he retired? This one would be for Kalapse or someone like that who know some of the financial rules I think. If he retired, we'd be off the hook. Gil Meche retired and left a ton of money on the table with his Royals' contract, but he didn't feel he deserved it (after being sidelined with a set of injuries for the 2nd or 3rd time in his career) and he wanted to reward KC for believing in him in the first place. By all rights, he could have stayed on the DL and continued collecting checks until the contact expired.

I have a confession to make. The last Chicago White Sox game that I attended in person ended up in one of the most horrific home losses in Chicago White Sox history. To the hated Twins, no less. And all this after we thought we'd finally turned the corner with Game 163 and Thome's blast just months prior. May 20th, 2010, 20-1 Twins, a date which will live in infamy. From that date through today, the Twins have won 29 games against us and lost only 7 against our White Sox, including 8 consecutive dating back to last year. During that time, we've been pretty much equally bad on the road and at US Cellular. 3-14 in Minny, 4-15 at home. We've been outscored 200-140 during those 36 games. However, if you remove the 20-1 blemish from our record, we're actually being outscored "only" 180-139. While this is still a pretty good spread, when you divide out all the numbers, it only comes out to 5.1 runs for the Twins per game and roughly 4.0 for the White Sox. From this point on, I vow to say nothing positive about the Twins. Never. Again. No matter what happens. No more Twins'-session. I still reserve the right to criticize our own players (without TOO MUCH hyperbole), but I've had it with being negative and tipping my cap and conceding these games before they even begin. It's over. No matter what happens with the White Sox this season, I'll cheer for the Indians to beat them (the Twins) if we are not going to be the ones to stand in their way. In all honesty, this season hasn't felt "right" since the 4-18 stretch, or, actually the game we lost when our record was 7-4 and we were still basking in the glow of the offensive explosion against the Indians. Taking a step backwards after watching that video of the father in Texas losing his life over a foul ball he was hoping to give to his son, life's just too short to spend time worrying about the "small things" we don't have any control over, like Dayan Viciedo's promotion or how much Dunn and Rios are driving us absolutely insane. So I'll just be glad for the small victories this season. Phil Humber. Sergio Santos. Brent Lillibridge entertaining us with some amazing defense in the first two months. The steady professionalism of Paul Konerko, the El Caballo-esque streakiness of Carlos Quentin. Alexei Ramirez playing SS everyday and making some of the best plays I've ever seen. I'd like to go back to May, 2009 again because Gordon Beckham looked like the best young hitter in the American League, Peavy/Dunn/Rios/Edwin Jackson were months in the distance and there was a pretty strong sense of hope and optimism about this team and its future. Heck, I was excited just to listen to Barons' games when we were trotting out a murderer's row of offensive firepower the first half of that season before it was broken apart. So I don't know how long we're going to be wandering in the desert before we get back to respectability, but I wouldn't miss it for the world. No matter what happens the next three games. I'll only make one request, KW. Please don't trade Dayan Viciedo. Give us a reason to believe in the future again. Gavin Floyd DJ Carrasco Mark Buehrle (2) John Danks (2) Freddy Garcia Those are the 7 pitchers who have beaten the Twins since that fateful May 20th game. It can and will be done again. We have no other choice but to believe in our players, even if we're not so sure they even believe in themselves when they face the Piranhas.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 02:27 AM) Cmon man we have the best pitching; that's gotta count for something at the end of all this. Now what the hell do we do with Rios Beckham Pierre and Morel? Something big has to happen there, big changes. Thankfully Pierre might have value again to another team; well at least enough value where we don't have to pay all of his salary It's doubtful we could get anything back for Pierre...just dumping the $2.5 million we owe him and freeing the position is the main issue. Beckham's fine for now, compared to most of our problems. Morel might need to split more and more time with Teahen until he starts putting up at least a 600-625 OPS. Teahen can take some walks and also drive the ball out of the yard. Rios to the bench, with DeAza/Lillibridge platoon until/unless both of them aren't productive, then you go back to Alex and try to get him going again like the first half of 2010 and put him through waivers, hoping to find a suitor. Probably stuck with him in 2012, though.

He's a lot better than Arnie Munoz, that much is for certain.

The fact is the Sox are hitting .177 in five games against the Twins this season. And the middle of the lineup was inept again, making the No. 3 through 6 hitters 0-for-28 in the last two games. "I will be behind those guys and support them and be positive with them until the day I can't anymore," manager Ozzie Guillen said of his high-priced lineup, which includes the .163-hitting Adam Dunn and his 113 strikeouts. "We just can't get it done," he said. "The reason is … I don't know the reason." But Thursday's game can be blamed on more than the offense, as Philip Humber — talked about as an All-Star replacement before the game — made his shortest and most ineffective start of the season. The 11 hits in 3 2/3 innings were out of character for Humber, who had gone 6-1 with a 2.52 ERA in his previous 10 games. "That's the first time I saw him (really) struggle," Guillen said. "I can erase this game for him. Everybody has a bad game. He's been great for us all year." chicagotribune.com/sports

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 11:18 PM) Unless you quoted the wrong poster, I don't read any of that in Caulfield's post. He is right you know. It is nearly impossible to dump those salaries without divesting the minors and sending big piles of cash.. I don't think you'd want my comments on the Tea Party! Tempting, but a pass. Confused about who he was actually replying to as well. Libtard is a new phrase for my lexicon, though. It sounds more like libertarian...than "tard" combined with Liberal. I think we might have another mini-issue on our hands with the phrase "tard" derived from retarded, but best to fight another battle.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 10:18 PM) Oh look. Another White Sox prospect who everybody assumes is the next ace. He's a future pen arm. The opposite. Instead of making Aaron Poreda and Sale starters and projecting unrealistic hopes on them, I'd prefer to believe in someone who has multiple pitches....can throw his offspeed stuff in the 70's with his fastball at 93-94 and also is learning how to mix in the screwball. It's been the rule for White Sox pitchers drafted in the first. My experience has always been the least hyped prospects emerge with the White Sox. Hopefully Viciedo is an exception to that rule, we need both him and Beckham to play like they're capable of.

What else is there to be positive about? Would it be better to dissect 6-27/7-28 (0-5 this season) against Minnesota? 8 losses in a row. 1-5 against DET, another 8 game losing streak as part of that. 7-14 in the AL Central. We haven't beaten them at home since early APRIL, 2010. What else can we positively say? That Teahen should replace Morel at 3B because he actually has some pop and might get a few walks....and that might be worth negating one of the better young defenders in the game for in all likelihood the worst at that position in baseball (toss-up with Viciedo). I don't think anyone would have predicted Sergio Santos to be White Sox closer 3 years ago, either. Or that Humber would be our team MVP before tonight, along with Paulie. We always tend to do better with "under the radar" 30th round draft picks than 1st rounders. Think of players like Buehrle or Chris Young here.

We're actually 1st in the AL in defense. Quentin and Beckham have improved pretty dramatically. Morel's been very solid since the first month. Where we have seen fall-offs is with Pierre, Rios and Ramirez, but it's still a very good defensive team. Ramirez is still one of the best overall defensive shortstops in the game and Rios is still above-average. AJ has his obvious throwing issues (half of it is on the pitchers not holding anyone except for Buehrle and Danks), but he's a solid game-caller and on-field general.

The problem is that they can't. Although I don't think sitting Dunn for a couple of weeks or mystery DL'ing him for Viciedo is going to ruin him for the next 3 contract years as Rongey would argue. If anything, struggling like he is right now might have more drastic long-term consequences than sitting him for 15 days.

Fathom in the game thread made the comparison to Johan Santana (in terms of his fastball)....obviously, that's a big jump, as we're seeing with some of the Viciedo comparisons, but at least there's some hope for the future. Ozzie Guillen taking a long time to talk to the media. Maybe he's having an extended meeting with the players. Something needs to be done to right this sinking ship.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 09:51 PM) From what I've heard, Reinsdorf is really pissed off about Rios. Obviously at the way he's playing and the logic in taking on the contract. Signing Dunn is one thing, while his second half last season may have suggested a drop off, not to the extreme its been, but Rios.....................The scouting reports all were he didn't seem to care, and that's exactly how he's been playing for about a year now. Unfortunately KW can't "play chicken" with him (like with Cabrera) and just bench him permanently because he'll just sit there sulking and collecting 10% of the payroll while becoming even more of a clubhouse cancer. Seriously, just give him to the Mariners straight-up for Figgins and it couldn't really get any worse.

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2011/0...ctor_santi.html

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 09:41 PM) Holy s***. When I left BWW the Cubs were down 8-0... and they just won 10-8?? I wonder if the Sox have a comeback like that in them? Not with Alex Rios leading off.

I love how we don't even think about PHing for Rios here. Just concede the game, Ozzie. Or the entire series, for that matter. It's not like we don't have an All-Star just sitting there on the bench.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 09:36 PM) Walkoff grand slam for Hafner. They're going to be tough. I think it's either the Twins or Indians. DET has too many issues with Porcello and Scherzer, and who knows how long Penny and Verlander can stand up to the wear and tear. DET also has a ton of bullpen/relief issues to deal with. Minnesota looks to head into the 2nd half with a ton of momentum.

http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2011/0...ctor_santi.html Very good Hector Santiago article...

Unreal. This is getting to be semi-sadistic to put him in the line-up at #3 or #4. Pull the plug.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 09:28 PM) Santiago's fastball looks a lot like the Johan Santana fastball of old. We might have the next member of our rotation for 2012. Who would have predicted Hector Santiago and not Sale? Did anyone even have this guy for AAP? No more Morel or Omar at #2. Dunn and Rios should never again be higher than 6-7-8.

The White Sox should just offer free rainchecks to every fan for future games until they beat the Twins just once. It would be the least JR could do to generate some goodwill. KW should personally be forced to hand them all out to every single ticketholder until we win.