caulfield12

For the White Sox to have acquired Haren, we would have had to give up more than Hudson. It would have been Floyd...undoubtedly, after DiPoto asking for Danks and getting shot down summarily. The other package of players at the back end of the deal wouldn't have mattered as much (for 2010) as losing Floyd from the rotation, and POSSIBLY getting better results from Haren, but also an even more bloated payroll with less flexibility. From the DiamondBacks' beat writer, AZ Republic With about a half hour before my connecting flight to Philadelphia departs, I figured I should weigh in on the collective online bashing interim GM Jerry Dipoto is receiving for using LHP Joe Saunders’ winning percentage as justification for acquiring him in yesterday’s Dan Haren deal. I’m not going to defend it, exactly, but I think I know where he was coming from and what he was trying to express. First, if I were sitting up at that podium yesterday, that’s not the approach I would have taken. Dipoto could have focused on Saunders being an innings eater, durable, proven, talked about his left-handedness and how that helps match up with some of the division’s better hitters, like Adrian Gonzalez and Andre Ethier. He could have talked about Saunders being two years away from free agency, about the Diamondbacks getting him out of the American League and into the National League, where they believe he will have a chance to post better numbers. He said some of those things, but the thing he seemed to keep coming back to was winning games, something he mentioned again when talking about LHP Pat Corbin, who he said leads the minors in wins. Having known Dipoto for several years now and having talked to him a lot recently about the state of the organization, I can tell you he seems focused on trying to create a winning atmosphere with this team. He talks about getting winning players, guys who hate to lose. I take it as being his way of indirectly indicting the current group of players and/or of a general malaise that he believes has set in around this club. I don’t think Dipoto needs anyone to explain to him that winning percentage maybe isn’t the best way to statistically evaluate a pitcher’s performance. What Dipoto wants to do is create a culture around this club that’s similar to that of consistently strong organizations like, say, the Los Angeles Angels. He wants everyone to feel like they’re a part of something bigger than themselves, like they’re all building something together, like winning is expected when they arrive to the ballpark, etc. Say what you want about that mind-set and whether it matters as much as just simply getting better players. That’s a whole ‘nother debate. But I’m pretty sure Dipoto knows a pitcher who goes 7-13 with a 3.00 ERA on a losing team is probably pitching better than the one who goes 15-5 with a 5.00 ERA for a winning team. Again, not a great tack to take at the press conference yesterday, but, for what it’s worth, that’s what I think he thinks.

The most exciting pitcher out there is Scott Downs right now, apparently. And the Twins would have to give up quite a bit to get Marcum. NL West teams are bombarding the Royals with interest in Scott Podsednik, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). Rosenthal suggests the Giants, Padres and Dodgers could be fits. The Giants and Padres have been linked to outfielders for weeks now and Dodgers GM Ned Colletti recently said he wants to add outfield depth. Podsednik, 34, has a .309/.353/.399 line with 29 steals in 41 attempts. It's a carbon copy of the season he put together last year, when he batted .304/.353/.412 with 30 steals in 43 attempts. Teams know what they're getting in Podsednik: a speedy left fielder who can play center and get on base. The Royals signed Podsednik to a team-friendly deal that guarantees the outfielder $1.65MM this season (about $580K remains). The team has an option for 2011 worth $2MM, but Podsednik will likely be able to void it. He had 421 plate appearances entering today's action and needs just 525 to neutralize the option.

Sixth sellout of the season. Beautiful weather, nice response to a first place team...Monday night, Felix Hernandez was on the mound, but the Mariners aren't exactly a huge draw these days, and the White Sox haven't been playing very well since the ASB. Seems like it takes until late July or early August for many White Sox fans to start believing in their team...then they disappear again when school hits a month from now. One thing is for sure, these sellouts make it a lot more likely we could afford to bring back Konerko or AJ (one of the two) next year if KW wants to go in that direction...also dependent, of course, on what changes, if any, KW makes before the end of the season.

Alexei has really stepped up his level of play in all facets of the game, offensively, defensively, hustling, concentration/focus...you name it.

Santos into the game, nice to have a 5 run lead and some breathing room here...

Take that, Twins!

Matt Joyce with a 2 out, full-count, GS against Scherzer, 4-0 Rays now going into the 7th in Tampa.

Two "dad gummit's" for Harrelson I'm sure on the Kotsay and Konerko line-outs.

Yay, I jinxed Felix... Seems strange to see Wilson Betemit playing 3B for the Royals with a .361/4/11 line. It's bizarro world this season, even Aaron Cunningham is looking like a productive ballplayer in the NL. Omar Vizquel's first career hit against Hernandez, now 1/12. Pulled a fastball at age 43 down the line, who'd a thunk it?

Didn't realize that Hernandez had a 1.37 ERA in his last 7 starts. That's dealing. And of course, our odds are what, 36% of seeing him two series in a row like this?

And I don't remember Liriano throwing 96 MPH, either. Once again, evidence that an elbow surgery like that takes 2-3 years to recover from.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 26, 2010 -> 06:26 PM) Well, Twins won. 6 spot on Greinke in the first. The irony is that he got Thome and Cuddyer out with runners on 2nd and 3rd and no outs. Then the slam to Valencia. And we would have scored our first run in 25 innings if not for that play by Kotchmann, possibly.

Well, we haven't scored against King Felix since August of 2008. 24 consecutive innings of scoreless baseball. And the Twins are back...so we need to figure out a way to score somehow, that would be good.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 26, 2010 -> 10:15 AM) This type of attitude that everything is alright because we are better than we used to be will be the downfall of the organization if that is what they believe. They should continually be looking to get better in all facets of management, whether it be upgrading the ballpark, enhancing the fan's experiences, developing and drafting better, etc. This franchise does alot well and alot right, but it has major areas to improve upon and to say "well, we're better than we used to be, so its all peachy" will put you right back into a crappy position. So you're saying you would gamble Beckham/Hudson/Viciedo/Flowers away for Fielder/Dunn/Haren/Oswalt (fill in the blank)? And then what...if 2009 repeats itself? In your desire to create a team capable of winning the World Series this year, you've blown a huge hole in our future ability to compete. Kenny Williams is as much of a gambler as anyone in baseball, and even he sees more downside to going all in for 2010 than sitting this one out and playing the cards he's been dealt. If we still had Peavy, it might be a different result, but we don't have that luxury anymore. Or you don't want us to make a big move, we're (or you're) just collectively lamenting the fact that we can't do so? I don't think anyone in the organization is in danger of acting like they're satisfied with what they've accomplished, it's simply a matter of balancing the short and long-term interests of the ballclub, ownership group and fanbase.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 26, 2010 -> 10:00 AM) Other than 2005 and maybe 2008, this team has UNDERACHIEVED every single year that he has been the manager given the amount of money we've put into the team and the talent that was on it. When you've had $95-$110 million payrolls these past 5 years, you expect to win every year. Kenny's right, 2007 and 2009 were embarrassments. Which is no different from what Detroit has done, but they've spent even MORE money than the White Sox since 2006...significantly more. The difference being they lost in the World Series and also being edged out by Minnesota in Game 163. Minnesota has just had a better organizational philosophy over that entire time, and they've stayed true to it. Unfortunately, as with the Oakland A's and Atlanta Braves, that system only gets them so far before they run into a brick wall. And I wouldn't even say the 2006 team underachieved, I just think the wear and tear of all those pitches came down hard on the starting rotation and that 2005 team overachieved to such a degree that it was impossible to sustain that level of success...combined with Minnesota and Detroit both getting good quickly and rebounding. You can cite 10-12 teams every season that overspend and get poor results, and the White Sox probably wouldn't come up as one of the worst offenders for any season except for 2007. We only have to look miles to the north for a team in a much more dire financial position. And the Angels were basically gift-wrapped the AL West for most of this decade as the M's teams of the early 00's fell apart/got old, and the A's went through a series of financial, stadium and personnel issues...then you have Texas, which always had the hitting but not enough pitching. At least there's been quite a bit of competition between the White Sox, Twins, Indians and Tigers for much of this decade. The same can't be said of the AL West, and that's why all of those Angels teams since 2002 came up short.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 26, 2010 -> 08:26 AM) Best fix I've ever seen. If the Royals dealt Greinke to the Cardinals, that would really be the end for that franchise. Most Kansas Citians I know have long ago given up any hope of competing with the Yankees or Red Sox. However, since we have always felt like we were in the long shadow of St. Louis, that would be the final death blow. I suppose with Moustakas, Hosmer, Hochevar and maybe Soria, there would still be SOME hope, but it would be SCANT. It was bad enough to watch the losses (or injuries) of Dye, Damon, Beltran, Appier, Rosado and Mike Sweeney, not to mention the failure of pretty much every first round draft pick for 20+ years.

What I really find amazing is that a scant six weeks ago, the board was feeling a little bit dead and listless and we were all facing the possibility of another 2007, except like it felt that it was coming even earlier. Now we're fighting each other over something we have absolutely zero control over. I guess after the last two blown Jenks saves (especially the one against Minnesota), I came to the conclusion it was going to be another version of 2008, that the winner would be the evil of two lessers...or the lesser of two evils, or however that goes, except maybe you can add Detroit into the mix as well. Hopefully, we can take a step back and realize that we should be elated we at least have baseball at this point in the season to care about. Yes, the last three years have been frustrating. We can sit around and argue until we're blue in the face about the farm system, Ozzie having too much say over the make-up of the ballclub (especially the DH/Thome situation), the fact that we're lacking in pitching depth and payroll space to make a big move, but it doesn't do much good to get frustrated with each other. These White Sox are a resilient bunch. They proved it in 2008 when everyone counted them out, and I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened again. The funny thing is that expectations have been reversed and it's now Twins fans who are the favorites and underachievers, with almost nobody picking the White Sox to go anywhere without Peavy. If you look at EVERYTHING that has gone wrong, those numerous issues that have been dissected over and over again here, we're still in first place. We control our own destiny. Something like 23 out of our last 65 games are against Detroit and Minnesota. That's how it should be. Let the best team win, and let the chips fall where they may. I wouldn't bet against KW, and there's quite a few Minnesota fans who are afraid that the Twins will stand pat and just hope for their players to rebound. They at least have a choice, whereas KW is pinned into a bit of a corner. But ask Twins' fans who they would rather have as their GM, Bill Smith or Kenny Williams, and a majority will pick our GM. Why? Because he does whatever is possible to put the team in the best position to win...last year was the first time the Twins made a flurry of moves at the deadline, and there's still a chance they'll come up with an Oswalt and blow right past the rest of the division. Actually, because the White Sox and Tigers are crippled, it makes standing pat and keeping all their prospects very very tempting, and that's what KW has to be counting on, with the possibility of waiting to strike at the last second with an unexpected deadline move. Of course, the Twins could still go out and claim an Oswalt on waivers and not be hurt financially. Nothing would surprise me in this crazy season. But we should be used to up's and down's and momentum shifts after going through the last 4-5 years of White Sox and ALCD baseball.

Because it's not realistic to model ourselves against the Yankees, Phillies, Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, Giants or Mets. We're always going to be a "middle tier" team in terms of MLB, with somewhat lower attendance but #8-12 revenues because of our market, higher ticket prices (concessions/parking/souvenirs), broadcasting rights, WGN, advertising revenue, etc. Realistically, then, you want to look at the Cardinals, Angels (some would clearly stick them in the large market group because of the LA market and due to Moreno) and Twins as the "gold standard," with a nod to the Braves as well. In my mind, we're on that same level with the Brewers (despite their attendance, they're still looking to sell high on Hart and Fielder), Rockies, Tigers, Braves, Rangers, Astros, Mariners and possibly the DBacks and the Padres at the bottom of that rung. If you look at the grouping, the White Sox and Braves have clearly done the best in terms of sustaining success this decade.

7. Detroit Tigers as the desire for pitching everywhere else. Over the last week, Detroit lost its right fielder (Magglio Ordonez(notes)), third baseman (Brandon Inge(notes)) and second baseman (Carlos Guillen(notes)) to the disabled list. While GM Dave Dombrowski referenced by name pitchers Jacob Turner and Andy Oliver(notes) – the Tigers’ two best prospects – when talking about youth he didn’t want to mortgage, he didn’t call them untouchable. So the prospect of trading for Hart, or Toronto’s Jose Bautista(notes), or any other bat to help Miguel Cabrera(notes) win the triple crown – and the Tigers win the AL Central – isn’t far-fetched. Dombrowski certainly isn’t against dealing young talent. Jair Jurrjens(notes) is thriving in Atlanta (for Edgar Renteria(notes) – d’oh.) Cameron Maybin(notes) and Andrew Miller(notes) are still in the minor leagues in Florida (while Cabrera has been the best hitter in baseball). And though they don’t have the makeup of a team that could steal a division, the Tigers are still just two games behind the … 8. Chicago White Sox and their tenuous grip on the AL Central lead. The White Sox miss Peavy. They’re rotating a group of replacement-level hitters at DH. Bobby Jenks(notes), lost his job as closer. And somehow, they’re still in first place. Getting Fielder, Adam Dunn(notes) or someone else who can step into that DH slot and provide the middle-of-the-order bat the White Sox have missed all season would transform them from even-money-at-best to distinct favorite. Minnesota, while on the periphery of big trade talks, doesn’t seem inclined to make a blockbuster move, and the Tigers are injuring themselves out of October. Both of which make White Sox GM Kenny Williams all the more inclined to strike, his desire for a deal … 9. Similar to Ned Colletti’s with the Los Angeles Dodgers, the only difference being Williams’ payroll flexibility and Colletti’s fiduciary handcuffs. Jeff Passan, yahoo sports

Wasn't Passan all over the DiamondBacks for throwing Byrnes in front of the bus a month ago?

I hear what you're saying. I wonder how many would support this kind of a move from KW and JR, though. If they wrote out a letter to shareholders right now. "Dear Friends, We really don't have any more money to spend. Our big moves for the offseason were made when we acquired Jake and Alex Rios last year. Unfortunately, the team didn't play very well the first two months, our revenues across the board are down or flat, so we don't want to overextend ourselves again like we did last year, with nothing to show for it. After many discussions, we feel the Twins are the team to beat, and they have the luxury of making trades and taking on more salary because they have a much stronger farm system, more quality depth and a larger income stream than we do. So we're going to cross our fingers with Freddy Garcia and Daniel Hudson and hope they can pull us through. That's where we're at. We made a BIG mistake not bringing back Jim Thome while simultaneously thinking Mark Kotsay could repeat his 2009 success offensively. But we don't want to compound the problem now by trading away our future young stars like Gordon Beckham, Dayan Viciedo, Daniel Hudson and Tyler Flowers for a 2 month run at the pennant when doing so will put as at a huge competitive disadvantage moving forward into 2011 and 2012. Yes, we STILL should have gone after the best available bat when we saw that Vladimir Guerrero was on the market for a reasonable price. We messed up and take full responsibility. You're just going to have to trust us now that Jake Peavy will be back at 100% next spring, that Dayan, Tyler, Daniel and Gordon are all future American League All-Stars and that our future is a very bright one, especially if you factor in our injured (but possibly prodigious) talent from the 2009 draft and the addition of Mr. Chris Sale. I believe that Kenny and Ozzie are the right guys to place my confidence in, and I hope you'll agree with me, too, by sending in your 2010 playoff deposits as well as 2011 season ticket renewals. Thanks in advance for your support. JR

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 25, 2010 -> 11:42 PM) I'm not knocking what they've done or do. I'm just saying this is a business and sometimes when things need to be done, they just need to be. Dealing one or both of them to help build for the future 3 years ago in my eyes was a smart play. I thought we were entering a period where we were old, had nothing worldy in the pipes coming up, and that those guys be dealt at their peaks was a smart move. Keepign them I felt only would have us finishing a series of 3rd or fourth place finishes and then being left empty handed when their time was up. Thats basically what we'll see. If the goal here is to put together teams that can win the mediocre AL central then bow out to the East or West, fine. If the goal is to win, then sometimes you need to restructure things. In the world of baseball, one of the best ways to do that is by spending and developing. We spend moderately well but we have to because we don't develop. We won't ever be the Yankees but we could and should be the Angels. Who have a deep farm and then spend 100 mil. If we do that - then we wouldn't need to worry about having to sell fan favorites off because theyre the only way we can rebuild. Thats all. Nothing against mark or paulie. I love them both just found it in better judgement to have sold high on them. Yes, but hindsight is always 20/20. It's like saying we should have drafted Porcello and Garza instead of Poreda, McCulloch and Broadway, etc. How many baseball teams in your memory have traded their two most identifiable players while still in their prime years? How can you be so certain the net in terms of prospects would have mitigated the losses in revenue? You're assuming that someone would have taken Konerko's contract three years ago. There was no deal out there like that...the time to have been making this argument was right after the World Series championship, when Konerko was presenting the ball to JR. Goodbye, Paulie? Were you advocating that move in October, 2005? Same thing with Buehrle. You take away all those memories from Sox fans, the no-hitters, everything that he represents to this franchise, it's okay to overpay for that...and you might end up with the players the Twins got from the Mets from Johan Santana, perhaps the best pitcher in baseball, certainly much more "valuable" than Buehrle and yet what do they have to show for that now? JJ Hardy? If you want to continue this line of reasoning, we shouldn't have given Contreras a contract extension (certainly not that length), and we should have traded Crede and Jenks while they still were at close to their prime values. The problem is the same one in the stock market, it's very very difficult to part with an asset that's performing at a high level for prospects that may or may not pan out in the future...not only that, but you destroy the competitiveness of the team, you're no better than the Oakland A's or Florida Marlins, dumping your best players as soon as they get too expensive and alienating your fanbase in the process. Look at a team that's done as you have suggested, the Cleveland Indians. There are other factors here in play, but that team was king of the city until Dolan started to tear it apart in 2001 and 2002....what was their string of consecutive sell-outs at Jacobs Field? What is their attendance now? Sure, we can all talk about Santana's potential, but how many sure things have they acquired over the last half decade that haven't panned out. LaPorta? Josh Barfield? Andy Marte? The list goes on and on. They signed players like Hafner and Peralta to long term deals unwisely and then traded away their best defender, F. Gutierrez, and got what back exactly? For all their manuevering, they got stuck with Kerry Wood (trying to maintain some level of competitiveness) and now might even end up trading Carmona. So no thanks to going that route.

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 25, 2010 -> 10:59 PM) The problem here is the things you are saying can be applied to anything. What if we just dealt with the fact our system is weak and spent more money in drafts or internationally. Maybe developing a better scouting department for starters. Or drafting guys who normally fall due to their contract size or signability concerns instead of selecting these overly projectable average arms every year. Only time we take risks are for these stupid toolsy outfielders. Apply that sense to some pitchers from time to time and we may end up an ace in the system for a change and not having to deal for them. Something like a guy like Porcello falling past us to the Tigers comes to mind immediately. That ties into another subject which is the whole white sox vs boras nonsense. Anyways, fact is, most of those guys are good in our eyes because they are "our guys". Before Beckham, we didn't have a top 10 pick since Frank. Thats a long time to not get the top-tier talent because if you aren't buying it later in the draft, then you have to do well at scouting and get lucky to land it after that. Which we don't do. If you can't scout well, then you cant draft well. If we don't draft well, who cares who we have trying to develop them. If we don't develop them then why not try to deal them for something. Which is where we sit today. Horrible farm system. We can't apply what ifs. Things need to change down there and then it won't matter who we trade or whats left. It can only help in every aspect for this organization. Financially, talent wise, on the trade fronts, call-ups for injury, etc. Doesnt meant we need to lose 100 games for five straight years. Just need to wake up. I know Dick Allen will argue this one (the fact that we have less money than he thinks to spend), but the priority for the White Sox has always been producing a winning or competitive major league team on a year-by-year basis. Because of that, a higher percentage of available resources have gone into the major league team than with other organizations. I could cite Chris Young, Chris Carter, Ryan Sweeney, Frank Francisco, Gio Gonzalez, Brandon Allen, Faustino De Los Santos, Carter, Brandon McCarthy, etc. It's not like our system has been totally bereft of prospects, it's simply that we have prioritized the short term over the long term. If KW doesn't make a move in the next weeks, it will be the first time which this has happened in recent memory. So perhaps this is all a case of premature evaluation, until we see who KW ends up with. If you're a Twins fan, aren't you even MORE upset that they haven't acquired Lee, Haren or Oswalt, because, when healthy, they have a potentially dominant offense, yes? And they have the prospects to make those moves, yet they are holding back. Perhaps they want to keep Ramos in case they decide to make Mauer a 3B or DH to save all the wear and tear on his body. Maybe they look out and see the lack of athleticism at the corners and feel they need to hold onto Hicks and Revere. This has always been the biggest problem...we haven't had the luxury of going with a rebuild like we did in the late 80's and late 90's. Every organization goes through this, except for teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Cardinals, Twins, etc. Heck, look how long it has taken for the Braves to get back to the top of their division after struggling for the last 2-3 seasons. The problem is that there's perhaps no fanbase in baseball that's as "winning percentage" driven as the White Sox. Maybe everyone is right, we should have rebuilt after 2007. Except our division being winnable each season is also a curse. It prevents KW from going into that full rebuilding mode 100%, knowing that if the attendance slides, his resources to work with will correspondingly slide, and then he's left with a self-fulfilling prophecy of taking 3-5 years to turn the organization around completely. I'm not sure he has the patience to do that, he's still too competitive, but you're THEORETICALLY seeing his balancing of 2010 with future needs and I still wouldn't be shocked if he did nothing at all and hoped for a return in performance/health from all those guys like Mitchell, Thompson, Morel, Phegley, etc. There's no doubt that teams like the Astros held onto their stars too long, each year feeling they had one last run in them. The thing is, if you go back to 1990 or 1993 or pretty much any time period over the last 20 years, the White Sox will end up with one of the 3-7 best winning percentages compared to all the other teams in baseball, and the three others will always be the Red Sox, Yankees and Braves. A healthy Carlos Quentin, the Gordon Beckham of most of 2009 and a dangerous Mark Teahen instead of Kotsay takes care of 90% of our problems. Still, we're relying heavily on both Garcia and Hudson down the stretch, just as Minnesota is doing with Duensing/Slowey/Baker.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 25, 2010 -> 10:33 PM) Depth as in Lillibridge? Stranger things have happened in baseball...than a player in his mid to late 20's figuring things out. How many teams in the game have quality depth at every position? Look at the line-ups the Red Sox have been forced to use all season long, or the Tigers' line-up in the first game of the double-header against the Blue Jays. The fact of the matter is that we could play Vizquel and Lillibridge at 2B, not to mention Alexei Ramirez. I think we're better off than 20-25 MLB teams in terms of depth at 2B.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jul 25, 2010 -> 10:28 PM) Unless they somehow get into his doghouse, at which point they have no chance to get out. That's a legitimate point. The big black mark for Ozzie and KW the last couple of seasons has been the Swisher trades, both of them. Obviously, if Swisher was producing for the White Sox the same way he has in NY, we wouldn't be talking about Dunn, Fielder, LaRoche, Scott, Cust, either. The guy obviously rubbed quite a few of our clubhouse leaders in the wrong way, he pouted when he lost his job to DeWayne Wise, he refused to listen to Greg Walker and would only talk to his father about his swing...I suppose you can say it was a "bad fit," that Ozzie created a bad fit (same thing with Cabrera, although I haven't seen any threads about missing him, except last year when he was helping to lead yet another team to the playoffs), whatever. That's a fair point. And yet it also flies in the face of the conventional wisdom, to play a career minor league journeyman over an "established" veteran player, you really have to do something to piss off Guillen.