caulfield12

I'll reiterate. Ozzie, at the Ballpark in Arlington, one of the true hitters' paradises....started an AL (NOT NL) line-up with the worst cumulative OPS across the nine starting players (Pierre, AJ, Kotsay, Vizquel at 2 spot, Ramirez....even Quentin was in the mid 600's at the beginning of the game) in the HISTORY OF MLB after April 28th. We had only four legit (counting CQ despite the recent slump) threats in the line-up. Beckham and Jones were both sitting.

Here's a list to start with, feel free to argue/debate: Cora (no way) Walker (maybe he would be better than as a hitting coach?) Joel Skinnner (White Sox ties) Alan Trammell Steve Stone/DJ/Singleton (joking) Buddy Bell Don Cooper (I think Fathom and I are both in this camp) Don Baylor Bob Brenly Bobby Valentine Davey Johnson Don Mattingly Terry Pendleton

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-remingt...l_b_160456.html Why KW is going nowhere, although with THIS past off-season, you can argue that perhaps he has fallen into the "third tier." Ozzie Guillen, if you ranked all the managers if baseball 1-30, would be somewhere between 18-24 in IMO. Some would rank him 12-17 because of 2005 and 2008, but I personally am going more off 2nd half 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2010. He did a great job in 2008, that team was held together with duct tape and baling wire, I'll give him that.

I remember the battle at WSI as the 2006 second half and then mid season 2007 turned against the Sox and we fell back to mediocrity. There were so many posters labelling everyone as "DARK CLOUDS" when really, we were just being pragmatic and realistic, accepting the fact that the dreams of a "dynasty" on the SouthSide and surpassing the Cubs in some intangible way in terms of clout were evaporating. We've returned back to mean...it's just that our payroll indicates we should be in 1st or 2nd every year. It's (payroll dollars) simply not being allocated as wisely as possible...and when the margin of error is so razor thin (see Game 163 in 08 and 09) between the Sox, Twins and Tigers, every roster mistake (Kotsay over Thome, who has a 1.1+ OPS, bringing in Pierre over other options like Pods) is completely magnified.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 28, 2010 -> 10:07 PM) Not surprised, we didn't really increase our team speed, especially when you consider Getz is way faster than Teahen. But Teahen is crafty (like Jose Valentin) and the best baserunner on the team, haha. Well, if you count Rios as a "new addition" in the offseason, as JR said (about Peavy and Rios), then we're faster. But Pierre is definitely slower than Getz and Pods now. Both of those guys beat out that last play IMO.

I'm waiting for the minor league threads and "trade talks" to start getting more "hits" than the Game Threads. Then you will know KW has a big problem on his hands, if even the "die hard" Sox fans are becoming apathetic.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 28, 2010 -> 09:01 PM) Better than the Twins? This is the best Twins team of the 21st century. Close. I would go with the 2006 team, the way they played the final 4 months was incredible. 2002-2004 with honorable mentions, those bullpens were simply untouchable against us with Hawkins, Romero, Rincon and Eddie Guardado.

DID we really start a line-up with lowest cumulative OPS after APRIL 28th in the history of MLB? I just heard that from the Rangers' announcers, they were belittling N. Perez for giving up hits to AJ, Ramirez and ALMOST Kotsay, who actually blistered a ball at SMOAK. You can run a computer simulation with our line-up, we would win that game one time out of ten with our line-up.

Why wouldn't Beckham or Jones be hitting for Pierre? C'mon Ozzie, wake up... You could stick Nix in the OF the next inning, who cares...but you have to let Beckham or Jones get a shot to tie it up!!!!! Our manager is once again proven fully incompetent. And good luck with Peavy contract, KW.

QUOTE (Capn12 @ Apr 28, 2010 -> 08:41 PM) Deer hit...I believe (recalling from memory)... .191 one year with 30+ homers. I stand corrected, 210s and 220s when he was in the 25-30 HR area. Dan Pasqua might have come close too, if memory serves me correctly. That guy could hit some absolute bombs. BTW, Milton Bradley and Javier Lopez can be solid offensive forces as well...when they're on and hitterish.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 28, 2010 -> 08:39 PM) Yes. We obviously don't have a Felix Hernandez. Besides that, I'd take our talent over theirs. Certainly doesn't mean we have a better team. We also don't have Cliff Lee, Ichiro, a defensive/offensive threat that is equal to Franklin Gutierrez (Rios has been close, but look at Gutierrez's numbers AND his salary), Chone Figgins (sucky so far) or a defender that's close to as talented as Kotchmann (Kotsay is good, but not that good and not capable of regular play).

Has someone hitting under .200 ever hit 30+ homers in a major league season? Rob Deer? Dave Kingman? The funny thing is that if you look at Quentin's minor league stats and 2008, you would think he would be a consistent .270-.310 hitter for 15 years.

Level plane....sorry. Walker is around ostensibly to hang out with Ozzie and Cora in the dugout, shoot the sh-t with Harrelson (two good 'ol Georgia Boys) and sign autographs for those Sox fans who remember 1983 still.

Walker also said it's very very difficult to make in-season swing or mechanics overhauls....like when Rios came in and was completely lost. Beckham has a slight hitch now in his swing and he's also not swinging on a level plan with that inside out solid contact up the middle and to LCF/RCF. But why is it that Cooper (with pitchers) or Tiger Woods (in golf) can do it relatively quickly? Aren't both repetitive motions that can be learned and unlearned....trained and untrained and retrained?

Guerrier clearly would be in our pen, it's just that Marte played a key role for us in 2002-2004, and he had his moments but faded for us in 2005. But any component of that 2005 team, hard to say you'd undo the trade that brought them into the fold. Even Vizcaino was important in his role that year, in spots.

The M's make the most sense to me. They can hang close in the AL West with their pitching, speed and defense....he's a difference maker to put that offense into "average," Sweeney/Griffey/Bradley are lousy (well, Milton might rebound still and get hot, very streaky hitter) and allow them to compete with the Angels and possibly take the division. But they did all Cliff Lee...

Why they got rid of Franklin Gutierrez is even MORE puzzling. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=mlb Why don't we hear something similar from KW, doesn't he have the same sense of urgency as Colletti? Finally, depressing Twins news of the day....Twins haven't lost a series YET this season. We've won a grand total of ONE. And, by the way, all that speculation about how they'd play at TARGET? Who cares, they're 8-3 on the road, with that number, their home record almost doesn't matter.

EXCEPT FOR HIS DAD, NOT "anyone," technically, would be incorrect. But anyone with the White Sox organization, YES. Chris Young WATCH 2/5 today, 1 R, 5 RBI's, HR (4) Now sitting at .298, 4 HR's, 21 RBI's, .853 OPS. Time for another Phil Rogers article on him me thinks. JIM THOME also says "hi!" Gives the Twins a 2-0 lead with his 4th homer, threatening for Sox to fall a season-high 7 GB. Non-surprising stat line to Ozzie/KW: 278, 4 HR, 10 RBI, 9 BB, 1.117 OPS.

Royals, down 5-1, actually had a comeback to tie game at 5-5 against the M's with two clutch, two out hits against R-R-S. Would be nice to see the White Sox do that more often. BTW, Pods 1/3 with Run Scored, .370 BA still and returning to earth with an .817 OPS, which still looks good compared to Quentin and Pierre. NOTE to KW: You can thank your lucky stars it was Pierre and not Chone Figgins you wasted money on, or you would be in real hot water.

Flowers is alive. He just got an AB replacing Castro (another reason for less PT) and made an out, at .264 now. So Donny Lucy's days are numbered in Chicago...but he actually acquitted himself quite well offensively and opened some eyes in the organization. Only five hits for the Knights, pretty hard to get excited about Harrell, Elarton or Whisler. Retherford taking another 0 for....down to .215, bright spot is Hudson's 2/3, unfortunately, we have the WRONG Hudson in our organization, no disrespect to Robert.

So we're back to Hudson, Flowers and Jordan Danks/Morel again, just like the A-Gonz discussions, basically... YES?

But you'd only have to be right on one player out of 20 to make your money back... Correct? I think most people who play the stock market believe they could do better than picking 1/20 companies to "explode," just like you HOPE your mutual fund manager can do the same with his bundles of stock picks. But if you did it with the White Sox over 10-12 years, the only time you would be right would have been betting on Buehrle, Rowand and I can't remember, did Crede make it once? Maybe he didn't... Just for argument's sake, who would you pick? I'll go with Santos Rodriguez. Point #2, outside of Trayce Thompson, what argument can you make that we're not (as many are arguing) anything more than the 26th/27th/28th/29th/30th organization in terms of projectable major league talent?

I just remember a lot of idle speculation at the beginning of the offseason that K-Rod was talking numbers like $50-100 million. He didn't, in the end, come close to sniffing those numbers, and rightfully so. There's a lot of wear and tear on that arm/shoulder, and he does have a pretty violent delivery that screams DL in the 2nd half of his career. You're right about buying FA closers. The closest we've been to doing that was acquiring Koch, and KW definitely learned a "MONEYBALL" lesson with that move...although Cotts turned out to be a very valuable piece, he was far from the centerpiece, that was getting the "fireballing" closer we've never had to replace the crafty Foulke, who got by with guile, moxie and guts against all but the very best teams.

It's going to take a lot more than Gavin Floyd to get Fielder. You can forget that one. It begins and ends with JD1, in terms of any discussion. Trading one of the top 3-5 young lefties in the game, when he's a lot cheaper than Fielder....and once again, he's LEFT-HANDED and OUR ACE, for a DH/1B/LF bat making more or less TWICE what Danks makes (over the next two seasons) is insanity. KW would be crazy to do that. And there's a good possibility we have to chop $10-15 million from payroll, too. That could come in the form of shedding Jenks and AJ with Paulie signing to a $13 million, 2 year deal with a 3rd option year included...but then we still have to deal with other players (like Danks and Pierre) bumping up in salary too.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 28, 2010 -> 06:24 AM) Absurd. Kotsay is a major league hitter, Gilmore is still multiple years away from being ready. He happens to have a hot hand right now, but let's not get ridiculous. Eh? Most prospect ratings didn't "diss" him at all - some had him a top 10 in all of baseball, others more in the 20's or 30's, but all see him as having significant major league potential. Where are you getting this? You earlier say that Gilmore is better than Kotsay right now, and then you say the only real positive is Thompson? Seriously? This happens every season. Players come in and their early performance is not what people expected. Its only a couple or three weeks into their season anyway, and there are always question marks. There are multiple guys who are surprising on the up side - everyone you mentioned, but also Bellamy, Shirek, Greene, and others. Just like there are guys surprising on the down side. Mitchell and Phegley were definitely blows, but the other guys, you have to have some patience. Its still April. I was being facetious to an extent about Gilmore, but not 100%. Kotsay was great last season, but he can't be overextended, and there's certainly the chance he just went on a tear like Pierre with the Dodgers and some were fooled into thinking he could repeat it. Which ratings have Hudson rated anything higher than 30-50 out of the Top 100? I could have mentioned Maurice Gartrell, for example....he's sort of like David Cook, do you agree? Yet do you think he'll ever sniff 100 MLB at-bats with the White Sox, either Greene or Gartrell (or Salvador Sanchez), all of those eventualities would be shocking. I'll give you Shirek, he could definitely become more than just a "sleeper" prospect, he's got a nice arm. But then, I've also thought the same thing about Brian Omogrosso and 100's of White Sox prospects throughout the ages. So I've learned to temper my enthusiam. It's just a little frustrating when our MLB team looks like it's bottom 8-10 and our minor league system looks bottom 3-5. Last year, the argument was that we were Top 15-20 in the majors, maybe even as high as 12/13/14. Right? I get that Beckham's no longer a rookie and notch on our belt, that we traded Brandon Allen, that Viciedo came up short in the eyes of some who projected him as Miguel Cabrera Lite...the way I look at it, we don't have many prospects capable of becoming All-Stars. Mitchell (if he rebounds 100%), Flowers (only at catcher) and Trayce Thompson, at least to me, are the ones with that projectability. Danks, Viciedo, Hudson and Morel (I was wavering about him being able to make it to that elite level) all have some identifiable flaws that limit their ceilings, would you not also agree? Outside of those 7, what prospects would you bet $1,000 that they will make the MLB All-Star game in the future, if your bet payoff would be $20,000 for being correct on a call? Escobar? Gonzalez? Holmberg? Phegley? Santeliz? Gilmore? Shirek? Santos Rodriguez?