caulfield12

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 15, 2009 -> 10:25 AM) If the White Sox started off 1-7, there would be just as much talk around here as there is in Cleveland right now. In fact, when the Sox dropped to 1-2 or 1-3 someone projected the record through the next couple of series and it was beyond brutal. Cleveland has problems just like every other team. If they win 4 or 5 in a row all of their pessimism will turn to optimism. You really don't have to be all that stellar to compete in the AL Central this year. That was me, haha. I think I wrote down 5-11 or 6-10. Now, going on our continued problems in the Trop, to expect the White Sox to be MUCH over .500 is pushing it...and I don't think anyone would be shocked if lost today or lost 3/4 in TB. We SHOULD win 2/3 in Baltimore with their pitching/starters, but the Birds are playing really well and it's on the road. So 1-2-3 games under .500 is certainly not out of the question after this trip. We weren't anything close to that mark on the road last year...so there's no reason to expected marked improvement. OTOH, the Indians are heading for Yankee Stadium after today. They'll probably sweep!!!

Posted by VAIndian on 04/14/09 at 11:55PM I hate to echo the comments of my learned posters who have gone before me. So, in essence, I won't (to a point). The comment has already been made that the Indians were (are) not ready for the season to start. That is an understatement. I have been a faithful follower of Cleveland Indians baseball for 50 of my 66 years. I can't, in recent memory, recall a season's start when there was so much B...S... spread around by management concerning the future of team for that particular year. Smokescreen???? Of course. Just go back and read Professor Wedge's comments about his pitchers every time they threw the ball in Spring Training. Always the same. Always non-committal. Always dripping with B...S.... I have to give Shapiro credit for signing Wood and trading for DeRosa. Both will be excellent acquisitions. The rest of the team, however, with few exceptions (Sizemore, Martinez, J. Lewis, and maybe Lee and Carmona if they come around) are no more prepared to play baseball at the major league level than a Little League team. We could hire the cast from the movie "Major League" and have better prospects. Maybe there are some better players on the team. If so, they have not been given the chance to show it due to a joke called Spring Training. Position players not prepared. Pitchers who have forgotten how to pitch due to poor, poor, poor preparation. Unfortunately, by the time someone wakes up and realizes that the problems are not necessarily with the players, the season will be in the dumpster. Lets get rid of the bush league mentality and holod the players accountable. Stop coddling them. Make them perform. There's an old saying which goes "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got". It's time for Cleveland Indians baseball to give up what they've always done and start playing baseball the way it should be played. No more coddling. No more "Gee, you tried hard". No more "Get'em next time". No more paychecks for those responsible. Make the players play ball. Make the manager hold them accountable. Make the manager accountable. Make the General Manager accountable. If we have to replace 75% of the team, so be it. If we need to replace the manager, so be it. If we need to replace the GM, so be it. If we need to replace the owner, hallelujah - maybe we found the problem. Sorry guys for being so long winded. I just get so frustrated when I see the quality of play from - a major league? team. http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2...ansas_city.html For more fun reading...page down.

http://www.weather.com/maps/geography/midw...ndex_large.html Looks like they should be able to play eventually...there's a band of rain all the way across Michigan, but hopefully it will clear out in the next six hours...then there's a "window" to the west. The game might be delayed an hour or two, but they should be able to get it in eventually. Not too crazy about Contreras pitching in these conditions, though. Obviously it affected Floyd quite a bit. It's no surprise both teams moved back Porcello and Danks, you don't want your best pitchers subjected to those type of conditions if you can prevent it, and it makes sense for Guillen to break up Contreras/Colon at the back of the rotation with another pitcher, especially since Colon and Contreras are throwing at almost the same exact speed with their FB's.

QUOTE (joejoedairy @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 08:55 PM) Did you just say Gordon Beckham? If Beckham wins a GG, it will be more for his offense (like a Michael Young or Ian Kinsler type of situation) than because he's the best "pure" defender, like a Uribe or Vizquel. I think he can be a solid/above-average MLB SS, but to project a Gold Glove type ability on him at this point is stretching it a bit.

"Brian Anderson will dictate how much he's going to play," manager Ozzie Guillen said before Tuesday's game at Detroit was postponed because of rain." This might be Anderson's last shot to prove he can be an everyday player after he was selected in the first round of the 2003 draft. Anderson lost his starting center fielder job after batting .192 in the first half of his rookie year in 2006, and then was demoted to Triple-A Charlotte at the end of April in 2007 before making the Opening Day roster in 2008 as a dependable backup. Anderson, 27, replaced Wise in the middle of Monday's game and drew two walks and stole two bases. "I don't expect Brian to hit .350," Guillen said. "A lot of people forget we give Brian all year long [in 2006] and he never [kept the job]. Now he's mature, he's a better player and he knows what he's doing. I don't expect him to be comfortable with being a backup outfielder. He should be better than that. He has an opportunity, and we'll see how he handles it." chicagotribune.com/sports

Jose has pitched some very good games against the Tigers in the past, even since 2005/06. I remember he pitched an excellent game in DET that reminded everyone of the "glory" days. Is it official that Danks is also scratched from tomorrow's start? I don't think either pitcher began to warm up today. (Yes, I see where Jose will start, then Danks against LH line-up in TB and then Colon, with Danks separating the two). As far as why the White Sox are not going to see Porcello, I think the Tigers learned with Verlander not to overexpose their young starters to the White Sox...and that we tend to rip young fastball-dominant pitchers. Great, Swisher hit another homer...oh, well.

We have Beckham and Ramirez that could play SS well offensively and (probably) defensively...and we don't have any certified CFer that can play everyday, so the answer to that is obvious. It's not only hard to find a CFer, we're TRYING to find a centerfielder than can lead off and alleviate some of the pressure on Chris Getz as a rookie to fulfill the expectations of that role. We could throw Viciedo out there at SS.

Jordan Danks has two walks tonight...raising his season total to 4, batting .261 overall. However, he does have an unacceptable 10 K's in just 23 AB's. No Barons game (playing Tennessee tmrw) and no White Sox game. Boring day/night.

Wednesday was supposed to be the first career start at Comerica Park for Tigers rookie starter Rick Porcello. Given the conditions and the way they affected starters Zach Miner and Gavin Floyd on Monday, however, it might not have been a fair glimpse for fans at Detroit's top prospect. Both Miner and Floyd seemingly struggled to find a grip on baseballs, and their command suffered. With Tuesday's rainout, plus scheduled off-days coming Thursday and next Monday, the Tigers shuffled their pitching rotation after the announcement. Porcello will make his next start Sunday at Seattle. Armando Galarraga will make his scheduled start Wednesday against Chicago, followed by Justin Verlander on the road Friday and Edwin Jackson on Saturday, both against Seattle. Galarraga is expected to start again next Tuesday against the Angels. That leaves Miner out of the rotation until the Tigers need a fifth starter again, likely late next week at Kansas City. Porcello's situation, manager Jim Leyland said, did not factor into it. "I don't get excited about stuff like that, because you can't control it," Leyland said of the weather. "You make the best decision you can and you live with it." www.tigers.com

The only reason I posted it was because the Cleveland Plain Dealer actually picked up on it and included it in one of their blogs (like Hardball at the Tribune)...and because it was about one of their players, they were essentially poking fun or laughing at it, too. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlJ4...o&type=lgns CLE and the history of teams starting 1-6...not so good for Indians fans.

The baseball blog "Bleacher Report" is often interesting, but to already claim Cleveland Indians' star Grady Sizemore is on track to be the second-best center fielder ever does not help its credibility. That's not to knock Sizemore, one of baseball's top impact players. Sizemore, now in his fifth full major league season, is going to have to do a lot more, though, and for a long time, to even get into the conversation as one of, say, the 10 best players ever at his position. Let's limit that talk to Mays, Dimaggio, Mantle, Cobb, Griffey, Jr. etc., for now. It's fun to talk in "all-time" terms, but folly to take a few statistics spanning a few years and translate them into a laughable (for now at least) claim. Grady Sizemore is on pace to be the second best center fielder of all-time. Some traditionalists may have a problem with this assessment, but look at the numbers. Over a 162-game season, Sizemore has averaged 40 doubles, eight triples, 27 home runs, and 28 stolen bases. This gives him a total of 103, trailing only Ty Cobb (109) in this production profile. Similarly, Carlos Beltran has put up numbers that would make him the third best center fielder of all-time. Yeah, better than Willie Mays. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/155644-...aying-right-now Link to full article

Dare we get started on NASCAR, field hockey, polo and the professional golf tours (both PGA and LPGA)...? Better left for another day, I think. Or Filibuster, if we go in that direction. As far as booing Anderson goes....we shall find out in the next 2-3 weeks. There's pretty much nothing left to say about this matter for now.

Are you saying we could compare Adam Jones to BA, or Adam Jones to Wise? Adam Jones was the centerpiece of the Bedard trade...and was even more highly-regarded than Anderson. Personally, I don't think he would be booed in Chicago...had we traded Buehrle for him, until at least 3-4 months into the season. The issue here is that Anderson is not so tremendously/clearly/quantifiably BETTER than either Wise or Owens in any respect but defensively...and yet Anderson wouldn't receive nearly the level of booing (and we can say it was all for Ozzie and KW, fine), especially had he failed on 3 bunt attempts. I also don't remember Crede ever being booed as loudly as Wise was, despite extended periods of non-performance/K's and flares to 2B/RF...the fact that it was only the first or second game of the season, that's the thing that doesn't make sense to me. It's not like we are a sure-fire contender for the World Series. Are the expectations so high in Chicago that we're now like the Braves, Yankees, Angels and Red Sox fans? Or, how about this, has a player in only the first or second game of the season ever been so roundly booed in St. Louis? We're booing KW and Ozzie because they won a World Series championship and because we've had the most successful franchise since 1990 of every team but the Yankees, Braves and Red Sox???

The likes of Ely, Omogrosso, Santeliz and Harrell all have a lot of talent...but they just could easily end up in the bullpen in Chicago, if they make it at all. The most likely happening is someone in Kannapolis really having a breakthrough type of year and emerging like Corwin Malone or Faustino DeLosSantos did in past seasons...someone in the Top 10-30 list moving to #4-5-6-7 in our Top 10. Put me in the "skeptical" camp about Poreda until he proves he can control and get ahead with the slider and possibly change-up.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 11:15 AM) What? Uribe was accused of shooting an Italian naval officer - of course he got flak for it, as anyone would. You really think if Anderson did it he wouldn't be treated the same? Actually, since the culture in Latin American around these athletes is such that they are targets of all sorts of crap, Uribe was given the benefit of the doubt. Uribe has been made fun of for his weight, not his hispanic background. But sometimes there's no differentiating between a player's country/culture and the feelings that engenders. I mean, if a white player from rural Mississippi or West Viriginia did something, would we be describing those places as almost like 3rd world countries? People made fun of Boone Logan for his personality and accent, but not to the extent I've seen misconceptions about Latin America here. Cubano, of course, always raises this point...sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I don't. My point is, people are making comments about players AND countries without having a very deep understand of either. That's what bothers me more than anything.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 11:08 AM) You are completely 100% wrong when it comes to most Sox fans attitude towards Frank. Go back and read some old Soxtalk threads about him during his last few years here and see what happened whenever someone took a critical view of him. Frank Thomas was, and still is, worshiped by most Sox fans. There are the White Sox fans who grew up with Thomas from 1990-1998 and then the younger fans in their teens and twenties who tend to post more on these boards and have a lesser appreciation for him, because they never really saw in person or on TV how good he really was back then...they just heard about all the off-field stuff, the divorce, the bankruptcy, the sniping back and forth with KW and Manuel and the "he's an idiot" stuff. But here, chisox.com, wsi, etc., I think it was about 75% really in Frank's corner and 25% saying "get him out of the way and move on" basically.

QUOTE (rafacosta @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 11:06 AM) Yes, Uribe was treated like s*** so many times here. With comments like...Uribe is going to eat his family bc is something common from where he is from. Please correct if I'm wrong but it was BA who went to Venezuela (or some Latin country) for Winter League and decided to leave in the middle of the season b/c he was getting sick due to the water? After that I remember Guillen was feeling disappointed at him. Ppl were criticizing Guillen over this...how can you criticize the coach for that? The player should go down there and show he deserves to play for his coach. Instead he comes back saying he was sick and blah blah...if you give somebody this opportunity he better shows he deserves. Uribe is another example...and this really was POIGNANT during the time where he was involved in the shooting/kidnapping/attempted ransom situation. Someone brought this up yesterday, in terms of their attitude about Venezuela and an incident in Winter Ball...I can't imagine the same thing would be said about Canada or Japan/Korea....maybe even Cuba, DR or Puerto Rico. Is that because of the negative attitude towards Chavez or based on something factually different about Venezuela? I've been in all those countries and lived in Colombia for one year, and Mexico, to me, is a lot more dangerous and 3rd world-ish. The whole situation with BA, he contracted some type of bug/virus (or maybe it was food poisoning), but he was really sick. I think he lost 20-25 pounds, something pretty dramatic. That was also the offseason that none of the Sox players started off very well and there was basically a mutiny against Razor Shines....in the Winter Leagues, if you don't perform (like DeWayne Wise) in as few as 2-3 games, then you will be released from your team. I think this happened with Borchard before. At any rate, all of the White Sox players were considering leaving at the same time to show support for Shines, it was a huge disaster for the organization.

Well, this was brought up with the whole Crede "montage" thing and why they didn't do that for Frank Thomas...this was on the Score, they talked about it last Friday for the whole afternoon. Maybe I am oversensitive to all the adoration for Anderson, Rowand and Crede over the last decade. While Thomas has been admired for his ability, I wouldn't say that "love" is quite there, not to the extent Sosa was "beloved" on the North Side until the last couple of seasons. So I will take responsibility for pushing the thread in this direction towards, I just didn't come out and say it directly. Personally, I think it was some of the vitriolic and "near hatred" statements about Wise and Owens that bothered me specifically. Psychology will tell you that people tend to identify with someone that is more like them...same color, height, physical attributes/characteriistics, someone that reminds them of themself? That's why you see quite a few Nash and Stockton jerseys, because there are so few white NBA players...and then those guys are short/er, so weekend players who fantasize about being a professional athlete, they rarely see themselves as Jordan/Bryant/LeBron James and certainly never as someone like Shaq. I think in the same way, that size (and attitude, to some) has been held against players like Dick Allen and Thomas in the past. When I look back at the last 15-20 years, my favorite player was probably Lance Johnson. If memory serves me correctly, we were one of the first (if not first) teams to have an all-black/Hispanic starting line-up about 10 years ago, one of the times whe James Baldwin was on the mound and Charles Johnson was catching. We can't compare Chicago to Boston NBA and MLB teams that were maybe 5-15% minority (and it's not a coincidence that the Red Sox have done much better in the last 10 years with a true mixture of the best players from all around the world). As far as Hispanic players treated poorly, there aren't as many examples. Ordonez and Lee left here under mixed circumstances, particularly Magglio. Valentin was very well liked. Players like Alvarez and Alex Fernandez were also very popular. Recent Hispanic players? Well, Marte was run out of here by Ozzie, but that's because he lost his control and confidence completely. You could use the example of Cabrera from last year...although a lot of that was media-driven. Also, I think there has to be a distinguishing between the way the media has mistreated/misquoted great Hispanic players in the past like Clemente or Juan Marichal and the "double standard" to protect the likes of Mickey Mantle from the public knowing about their lives off the field. Of course, this is also true of politics, as JFK was protected and then everything changed with Watergate and then Gary Hart/Donna Rice in terms of media coverage of sports and politics (leading today to Facebook and myspace pictures in almost direct time showing up of players smoking weed, partying, drinking, committing crimes, etc.) As Hawk said, the pressure has changed from a 1/1.5 out of 10 to 7-8-9 out of 10 for today's professional athletes.

Well, certainly he will go down to Charlotte for at least a week or two. At that point, if he's healthy (relatively speaking), KW will bring him up and replace Owens...whether BA is playing well or not, Pods SHOULD come up to take the place of JO.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 14, 2009 -> 10:51 AM) Unless the market completely shifts back to normal this offseason, I can think of about $4 million or so reasons why we wouldn't. Jermaine Dye at $12 million in 2010 at age 36 is playing with fire...even if he was the full-time DH, it would make much more sense with our ballclub to find someone like an Orlando Hudson or Chone Figgins to be the DH. We could have had Abreu for $5 million (plus $1 million buyout for JD) and used that $6 million somewhere else...bullpen, CF, 4th/5th starter to replace Contreras/Colon, etc. We still have plenty of power in our line-up with the addition of Fields and the future additions of Beckham/Viciedo/Flowers/Allen.

No...I mean, would BA be booed? Because it's not so easy for me to differentiate "Ozzie booing" and "Wise booing" like so many are doing. In other words, I am sure there would be muted boos or no boos at all for BA in the same situation...but why should it be different for him than Wise or Owens?

I'll go back to the same point then... If Ozzie put BA in the leadoff spot and he failed with three bunt attempts (pretty likely) and struck out the same number of times (over the course of two games), would people still boo him like they booed Wise? If not, why? Why would BA NOT be booed and Wise was mercilessly booed? Because BA "saved" the season with his catch at the end of the blackout game? Because he was going crazy with Rowand on the dugout steps in 2005? Because he came up in our farm system? Most fans would agree that NEITHER BA nor Wise would be suited for leadoff spot on a contending ballclub, CORRECT?

Thought I would start collecting some of the most interesting Wise/Owens comments....last time I checked, nobody had ever talked about "killing" Brian Anderson or wishing that he got injured. In all fairness, I started one of the anti-Wise threads (Special thread dedicated to shots at Wise) but this whole situation is really starting to be aggravating if you say ANYTHING positive about Wise/Owens. EXAMPLE 1 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Apr 13, 2009 -> 03:04 PM) How many times can you "kill" this guy? "It requires silver bullets and a wooden stake through the heart. And decapitate him for good measure." (stan bahnsen) EXAMPLE 2 f*** this idiotic decision. WTF are KW and Ozzie thinking here? I mean seriously, at LEAST go get someone who can hit in AAA, let alone the majors, like Kroeger or even Cook. Jerry Owens? Seriously? You STILL can't give Anderson, who is superior in just about every aspect of the game, a chance to start here? You WANT a guy with no arm playing CF? Godammit, son of a b****, f*** this cover-my-ass clique protection vendetta they have to put Owens out there when he ISN'T GOOD!!! Of course, the irony of the situation is everyone assuming the "conspiracy" was still in by Ozzie against BA and that Owens would actually be starting today in Detroit, coming off a 1/7 start in Charlotte with 3-4 strikeouts.

DETROIT - Jerry Owens is scheduled to rejoin the White Sox before Tuesday's game at Detroit, but don't expect him to get an immediate shot at regaining the leadoff/center field job to Dewayne Wise in spring training. The decision to purchase the contract of Owens, 28, who was 1-for-7 at Triple-A Charlotte, was made by general manager Ken Williams, according to manager Ozzie Guillen, after Wise was lost for at least six weeks after separating his right shoulder while making a diving catch of Ramon Santiago's drive. But Brian Anderson, who drew two walks and stole two bases Monday, might get more of a shot at winning more playing time. “Kenny made that decision because we need a center fielder right now," Guillen said of the Owens' promotion. "We’re going to start by keep playing with Brian. ... I have to see how (Owens) was doing because I don’t think he was doing too well in Triple-A, either. "But when I got to the office, Kenny said (Owens) would be coming for the next couple of days and we'll see how he does. I need a true center field. Hopefully Brian does the job, if not, I’ll give Jerry a shot.’’ Williams and Guillen each expressed their disappointment that Owens didn't display more intensity during spring training, but both understood that Owens' personality isn't fiery. www.chicagotribune.com/sports Unfortunately, we'll never get to find out, as all those games will be on the road, but I would be shocked if he was treated like poor Wise was by the fans. I guess this will be a fun couple of weeks... We can all second-guess BA if he doesn't make an all-effort to dive for a ball (Wise would have laid out for that one!) or if he strikes out 7 times in 16 at-bats. So the first argument will be (if he takes an 0 for today) will be that Porcello is one of the best young pitching prospects in the game, throws 95-99 MPH, is right-handed and BA has never faced him before, so it's advantage pitcher...everyone accept that argument so far? By the way, I am now going to start calling him Brian Nikola Anderson...or just Nikola Anderson. TUE: RHP Porcello (never faced Porcell, but will start against a RHP, good test of his bat speed against FB) WED: RHP Galarraga (never faced Galarraga, but will start against a RHP) Next phase...at Tampa Bay (wraparound series)...possible excuses: White Sox never play well in domed stadiums, BA is only 2 for 15 lifetime against current Rays' pitchers (inexplicably, both are against Sonnanstine, who I would expect him to struggle against the most, BA not familiar with starting pitchers, etc.) THUR: RHP Jeff Niemann (lost 6-0 in last start, game Wise/Owens would ordinarily start) FRI: RHP James Shields (never faced, co #1 starter for Rays, BA wouldn't ordinarily start) SAT: LHP Scott Kazmir (here's where BA would "normally" start, even though he is 0 for 6 with 5 K's lifetime against Kazmir) SUN: RHP Matt Garza (BA 0 for 2 with 2 K's lifetime, Ozzie would normally use Wise/Owens) So that should be six starts in a row for BA...with four of the six being pitchers he (BA) has never faced before. Kazmir, the lone lefty in the Rays' rotation, has owned him so far. Sonnanstine, the pitcher who gives us fits, luckily misses us (but BA's 2/3 for lifetime against Sonny) FINALLY, stage 3. If BA "survives" these six tough games on the road...then things SHOULD get easier in BALT. TUE: LHP Mark Hendrickson (BA 0 for 3 lifetime) WED: RHP Jeremy Guthrie (BA 0 for 3 lifetime) THUR: RHP Adam Eaton (BA has never faced) So BA should have at least 9 starts in a row, with only 2 of them coming against lefties...and both lefties are ones that he struggles with, or tends to struggle with in the case of Hendrickson. I think that's a pretty fair test to see where he's at in 9 games...yes or no? Of course, I can see the argument already. He's either not faced any of these 9 pitchers coming up OR he has never had a single hit (or bit of success) against any of them. Yes? So anticipated argument: Ozzie is deliberately putting BA in a position to fail and he shouldn't be judged on his results against these 9 upcoming pitchers he will face. That gets us to TOR and SEA at home. BA hasn't faced any of the Jays' starters, but he is, of course, a Felix Hernandez killer (2/5 lifetime with 2 homers and 3 RBI's) and a blistering 6 for 13 with a homer off Carlos Silva. He also has a hit apiece against Bedard (1/6, 2B) and Washburn (1/4, HR). Unfortunately, these games are not AT Seattle!!! So the question for BA supporters, if he gets 13 starts in the next 15 games...is that enough to determine if he (BA) should remain the starter? Personally, these arguments about Wise/Anderson/Owens are starting to remind me of "you're either with us or against us" (meaning the terrorists or the good 'ol USA)...but looking forward to see what happens. I guess that puts me in the terrorist camp for defending Wise and/or Owens. So be it.

Probably because they have Brandon Phillips ensconced at 2B already, and that's where a lot of teams were projecting Beckham. Now, he's (Beckham) certainly better than Gonzalez (SS), Encarnacion (3B) and whoever they have playing LF on any given day...so maybe they foresaw Alonso playing in LF? I don't know. One more thing about the game yesterday...James Adkins (Lookouts) was the Dodgers' #1 pick in 2007.