caulfield12

Just curious....playing Devil's Advocate on KW. Would anyone take back Chris Young to be the everyday starting CFer (maybe we signed Furcal too to hit leadoff, don't really want Young there)...for this package we have just received? Would you rather have 3-4 fairly promising players/prospects/suspects or YOUNG? Discuss at your own convenience.

Well, no dout Abreu's a better defender....and moving Dye and having Quentin and Abreu on the corners would make more sense from a defensive standpoint. I just don't think Abreu's numbers over the last couple of seasons and his age justify a big investment, and I do think he will get at least a 3 year commitment from some team out there, not sure which, but it will probably happen.

You're taking something of a gamble hoping Dunn can adjust to the AL quickly, but that also would give us pretty perfect L/R balance in the middle of the order. Dunn at least is still pretty close to the prime of his career. Once again, not much interest in Abreu at anything over $10 million per season at this point in his career. For that matter, I'd ALMOST rather have Ibanez than Abreu, although it would be a toss-up. Depends, of course of money and number of years.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:14 PM) that would be pretty nice...especially if we could get a young pitcher + another prospect for dye...theres an awful lot of on base ability in that lineup with dunn, thome, quentin...i wouldnt sweat the K's too much though, but you are right, dunn, fields thome and alexei could help lead that team to mlb records in Ks...whatever though..my personal feelings towards Ks are rather well documented around here, so it wouldnt bother me too much Viciedo figures in here somewhere too as a power source for sure... I don't think Abreu (age, will want $45/3 years) and Dunn (too one dimensional for KW's new "vision") are the best fits. I think someone like Juan Rivera (if Dye is indeed traded) makes the best sense for 2 years in LF.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:06 PM) well, we mustn't forget that we did sign Viciedo, which is what, about 2 million? If we trade Dye, I'd guess we'd be looking at something between 30-35 million off of the books. $11 million for 5 years, so $2.2 million theoretically...we haven't really seen the "details" of the official contract, as it has yet to be signed, right? Speaking of Viciedo, have there been any updates on when he gets cleared to re-enter the US?

QUOTE (BearSox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:04 PM) lol, I kind of jumbled my thoughts there. A lot of going on today. I doubt we'd go and sign both Furcal and Dunn. I was just thinking I would love to get Dunn, but if that were the scenario, Furcal would be unlikely. However, if I want to get my ps3 up and running... 1. Furcal, SS 2. Ramirez, CF 3. Quentin, RF 4. Thome, DH 5. Konerko, 1B 6. Dunn, LF 7. Fields/Betemit, 3B 8. Pierzynski, C 9. Getz/Lillibridge, 2B That's a nice lookin' lineup right there, if you ask me. The only problem is that your looking at probably at least 250 K's, but likely more, from the 5 and 6 spots together. Or a 2 year deal for Manny Ramirez to play LF and DH occasionally, with Quentin moved to RF in the reported Dye trade. Can you imagine Manny, Quentin, Thome and Konerko as the middle of the line-up? Doubt it would happen, but nice to dream. And I wouldn't count out either Nix or Viciedo quite yet.

We can't give Furcal four years at $10 million plus per season...at his age, and with his injury history. Three, maybe, maybe it's possible....he supposedly had a legit offer for 3 years and $39 million, and the Dodgers refused to match it, even though he was/is one of Torre's favorite players.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:54 PM) Bailey might work to replace Richard.... I think we can't just assume every pitching prospect we take on has the success of Danks and Floyd so far. It's just against mathematical probability.

With the Braves' new "mid market" financial mindset and Vazquez's "arguably unreasonable" contract to be a 4th starter...I think we're looking pretty good with this deal. It was obvious we had to get rid of Swisher and Vazquez, along with Cabrera, Crede and Uribe. Our roster is already 20% different and we're just getting started. The question is whether we cut deeper and deal Dye and/or Jenks.

Well....you're putting an AWFUL lot of pressure on Don Cooper to go with Bailey and another youngster at the back end. I think they have to find someone from that group that includes Pedro, Randy Johnson, Garcia (if they check his health), Colon, Mulder, Duchscherer, Schilling, etc.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:44 PM) Anybody else feel a trade for Gio Gonzalez coming? Cooper can STILL fix him. As long as it's not for Carl Everett or Roberto Alomar, or Sandy Alomar for that matter.

Well, the obvious concern now becomes the rotation. Maybe they know something about Contreras' comeback we don't, but that is still not the long-term solution. Right now, our last two spots in the rotation are filled with Richard/Poreda/Carrasco/Marquez/Broadway/Egbert and any other names you want to throw in there. It certainly puts some pressure on KW to sign a FA fifth starter from the scrap heap, because other teams are going to see our obvious position of weakness...we've gone from 6 starters to 3 now, and I'm sure that makes Williams feel a little insecure. Interesting the Angels offered Garland arbitration...sort of a surprise, but maybe not.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:07 PM) I'm still hearing Morton, although those two are on the "list". KW wants a starter in return as well. BTW, our vacant 2B spot has an open competition between Lilli, Getz and Nix. Pretty good talent there. Not to mention Betemit as well.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 12:21 AM) Really? Broadway and McCullough were joke picks, not worthy of the spot taht we took them. Yes, many prospects will fail, thats baseball, but alot will contribute in some way, especially with Kenny liking to trade them. Of course, they need to have talent still to have value, these higher picks allow the Sox to get those talented players, and with the new scouting/development people in place I expect much better drafting to help build for the future. Will it always work out? No. But I would rather have mroe draft picks, higher ones, because you increase not only the number of prospects you can trade, but also the likeliness that they will contribute on the big league team. That was a big mistake. We could have had Matt Garza there...the Twins outsmarted us on that one.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) In-conference SOS. It's not fair either as you can't control the schedule, but at least you are using something within league play to determine who advances. Well, then OU would have had no benefit at all to play and beat Cincy and TCU. Essentially then, the only fair way would be eliminating all but 1-2 non-conference games/cupcakes and playing full home and away league schedules. Every team would just schedule the Sister of the Poor and the Washington Generals if the SOS didn't matter to the computers in the end, which it did...especially rebalancing the final weekend.

Now we're saying that Taveras is being overvalued by the Rockies, even though he ended up as a bench player. Many here would rather have Brian Anderson starting than Taveras...maybe KW will trade them straight up for each other. Or maybe Owens for Taveras, as some believe Owens will have a better career from here on out. In the end, if you don't appreciate Taveras' skill set and what he brings to the table, then the only thing that will convince you is watching Getz fail before we come back to this thread in the future and everyone is complaining about why KW didn't get a "legit" leadoff hitter in the offseason, instead of being hung out to dry mid-year by another GM (due to desperation)!

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 09:54 PM) Luck? When your top offensive comparison is Alex Cole, and a series of no hit/speedy guys you make your own luck! Alex Cole had a lifetime .360 OBP in the majors and a .711 OPS. I think we would have taken that out of Orlando Cabrera last season in a heartbeat...

QUOTE (KevinM @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 09:48 PM) I'm still waiting for a compelling argument against luck. Actually watching the guy play would be one...instead of arguing completely based on 2008 and BABIP or whatever. Obama is more likely to name Osama bin Laden Director of the Department of Homeland Security than KW is to go into Opening Day with Getz/Anderson/Ramirez leading off. I can see the arguments for Owens, let's say they are "roughly equivalent," just for argument's sake. But why wouldn't you want to have additional insurance...seeing how costly it is to go out and get a top leadoff hitter/CFer? How would/could it hurt? Wouldn't it be better to have Taveras as the 4th/5th outfielder than to have Broadway, McCulloch or Russell wasting away in AAA? What's the next argument, that would mean DeWayne Wise wouldn't be on the team? That Wise is better than Taveras? Well, let's make DeWayne Wise the starting CFer and bat him leadoff. Problem solved...it's as logical as anything in this thread.

Stand down, Taveras detractors! Wave the White Flag and we will cease and desist our efforts.

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 03:25 PM) Danks has Buehrle to thank, IIRC. Darn it, Buehrle. Why can't you teach Russell and Poreda the cutter, too!!!! Maybe we can bring back Loaiza as an adjunct pitching coach just to teach that specific pitch to our youngsters, along with Champion and Cooper.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 08:08 PM) Good Luck. A friend of mine is in Cambodia and was supposed to fly out yesterday ending her research. However she is not sure when she can leave. Her lease was up and she was lucky to be able to stay with some other archaeologists. She isn't very optimistic about being able to return any time soon. I was just in Phnom Penh about a month ago. Cambodia is a very beautiful country...especially Angkor Wat/Siem Reap. However, nothing really prepares you for the "Killing Fields," it was almost as spooky to me as Auschwitz. http://www.terragalleria.com/asia/cambodia...e.camb2951.html This commercial break from the subprime mortgage crisis, Taveras debate, "recession" and Obama cabinet announcements brought to you by IBEW and Alex and Ursula Snelius.

QUOTE (Felix @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 08:24 PM) I'm willing to bet just about everything and anything I own that we will never see Willy Taveras in a #3 White Sox jersey. No, you don't understand how deadlocked we've become. I think "kennylovesprospects" will go to Baines' house and personally implore him to "unretire" his number (it has happened before, there is precedent...just like Minosa coming back) so that we can acquire Willy Taveras and make him as comfortable as possible in his new Chicago surroundings. Hey, it's possible. Not likely, though. I almost don't want to see another Sox player wear #1...to me, Lance Johnson was the only player to fit that jersey.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 06:39 PM) Ouch. Yeah I read about that. As long as you can focus on the important things in life, all will work itself out. Your countrymen need to forget about that ecomony stuff of whatever it is called, get their priorities straight, and start thinking more about Willy Taveras. X-mas is coming up for g-d sakes. If you really want to impress everyone with your conviction (HAHA!), you'll invest in a #3 or #1 Willy Taveras Sox road jersey and make it your new display image. Maybe you can take a picture of yourself and send it to KW as a helpful hint, and also wear it to SoxFest. That would get you some looks (if he wasn't yet on the White Sox roster)! Buy genuine MLB game jerseys for ridiculous mark-ups. Boost the economy.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 07:10 PM) Thank you Caulfield. You've always been there to offer a helping hand to Willy Taveras when he has needed it. I salute Jordan4Life and BigHurt4Life equally as well. If I can't solve the political crisis here in Thailand, at least I can defend Willy Taveras, lol. It makes me feel a little better...I have a flight on December 21st to Manila for Christmas, looks like the odds are about 75% I will make it. Right now, there are approximately 350,000 stranded foreigners, the possibility of heightened violence in the upcoming days, or a military coup like 2006. Almost anything is possible.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 04:58 PM) Who would you rather have as a leadoff hitter? A guy with plus speed and a great batting eye who getz on base? Or a guy with ++ speed, strong defense, and a great arm? IMO, Taveras has one problem that makes him ill equipped for the job.... he's not a good hitter. And I'm not terribly excited about making a guy whose claim to fame is good defense our next leadoff hitter. Frankly, I don't see Taveras as being a significant upgrade over Owens. In fact, I think it's likely Owens could turn out to be a better offensive player. I'm not a huge Anderson fan either, but I would put Brian out there in a second instead of Taveras as our starting CF. (I suppose you could guess I'm not much a Taveras fan, eh?) Willy Taveras, career minor league OBP=.370, OPS=.731 Chris Getz, career minor league OBP=.361, OPS=.741 Almost identical...but then you have to factor in the fact that Taveras has clear advantages in experience leading off, has better range/arm and WILL steal a lot more bases than Getz, putting him into scoring position more often and "boosting" the lower OPS number (essentially counting on 50-70 singles becoming doubles and triples...of course, counting caught stealing against him) essentially. When I was in HS, I made up a number that took into account OBP and SLG but added in stolen bases - caught stealing and counted GIDP as two outs (penalizing the slow/plodding players). I can't remember my formula anymore, but Taveras would look significantly better than Getz using it. For another comparison, Jerry Owens, career minor league OBP=.359, OPS=.717 Starting the season at age 28, it's possible Owens COULD improve...but will he? Based on what? It's still doubtful to me he or Anderson will ever get the at-bats to prove it. I guess we can use the UCLA WR theory, less experience playing baseball, etc. But eventually, we have to accept his limitations and ceiling. I'm sure KW already has, especially his lack of arm in CF. Does he really want to put Owens in LF and go after a superior CFer who will cost us either tons of money or talent, I doubt it. Even if he turns out to be a disappointment, you're risking very little (a Broadway, McCulloch or Russell who will probably never be a starter at the MLB level) and the reward to improve this aspect of your team is too great to pass up. To me, the more competition you have on your team, with increased depth, the better off you are. We have pretty good options all around the diamond if one of our starters breaks down...much, much better than things looked coming out of 2007.