caulfield12

QUOTE (beautox @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 04:37 AM) That would be epic, move Che to CF S Reyes SS L Murphy 2B R Quentin RF L Thome DH R Konerko 1B S Swisher LF R Ramirez CF L AJP C R Fields 3B Going into '10, either fields busts out or he busts; going around the diamond. DH - Konerko C - AJP 1B - Fields/Swisher 2B - Murphy SS - Reyes 3B - Beckham LF - Swisher/Danks/Ramirez CF - Ramirez/Danks RF - Quentin That would be great, but there's no way they will take Vazquez instead of Danks/Floyd. You have to begin with Jenks, Floyd and then one more piece (not Alexei Ramirez)

Who the heck is Lisa Winston?

Morales simply hasn't hit yet in his limited big league opportunities...when he has hit, he hasn't hit for nearly the power (20-25 homers with lots of doubles) projected for him and finally, his body type lends itself to being overweight.

I think with Dotel, we'd have a 65-75% conversion rate, as opposed to Jenks at 85%. The question is will the player we get back in return for Jenks allow us to make up those 3-5 "lost" victories and blown games in other ways? I'll let the VORP and Bill James statistics types analyze that one. Historically, it has been better to invest money in other areas than in relief pitchers...and the White Sox have gotten away with not paying any big-time closers. The one we did bring in, Koch, was the biggest disaster of all our closers over the last decade.

Sounds like D'Angelo Jimenez. Well, everyone is the next Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretzky or Joe Montana/Jerry Rice until they are not, lol. If you read all the scouting reports available on Ramirez, you would have thought he was something of a combination of Craig Grebeck, Paco Martin, Esteban Beltre, Warren Newson and Mike Caruso...with a large dose of Andy Gonzalez thrown in for good measure. They say the same types of things about Manny Ramirez and all he does is hit, hit, hit. Of course, he has his limitations...but I think if you had Viciedo around Guillen, Alexei and Jose, that work ethic question would disappear rather quickly...or he would be shipped out and become a footnote. KW always does his due diligence...he's not going to sign this guy unless he's talked to our Cubans extensively through Ozzie and/or one of the Guillens to find out more about his reputation as a teammate, work ethic questions, diet/nutrition/motivation, etc.

The question is, what do the Cardinals ask us for...you know it's going to start with pitching, and we can offer Jenks/Vazquez but they will want Buehrle, Danks and Floyd. "I'm not only proud of my country for the first time in many years, but I also can publicly be an Iowa Hawkeye football fan again...and also laugh once again at Ron Zook."

Well, let's hope KW can get the deal done with Viciedo. Obviously, this won't be a "low visibility" signing, and there will be more interest in the wake of the success of Alexei...not to mention Viciedo's age and international experience/seasoning makes him more attractive. As mentioned above, while I pretty much agree and have been arguing here, at WSI and even before that at chisox.com for a rebuild of the team, KW has obviously never listened (LOL) and I doubt he will now. He always does what is best for putting the most competitive team out there on a season-by-season basis. At least that has been his modus operandi. I'm just a little skeptical because getting so many pitching prospects that have ceilings of 3 or above...well, it's just not that easy to do. And other GM's will certainly catch on after the first or second trade. You don't think that Daniels or Wade look a little silly for the deals that gave us Danks and Floyd and half of Swisher? (Of course, Gillick probably doesn't care, and has never been the type to look back TOO much). Of course, there are a lot of variables with our bullpen...you don't know what impact, if any, Contreras will have out there. Do we hold onto Dotel hoping for Type A compensation only to see him go down to injury again and lose the window of opportunity to trade a setup guy being paid like some MLB closers in their arbitration years? Maybe the names mentioned before will have a breakout, Logan type of performance and vault from A ball to the majors, but that's only happened twice in my lifetime, with Logan and previously with Scott Radinsky, who was 10X the pitcher Logan was/is. Best-case scenario, if we did make 3-4 of these rebuilding the rotation moves...is that we would mirror the Minnesota Twins' lack of depth and experience in their rotation coming into this season. I guess we'd be better off...in general, because Baker and Liriano were their two most experienced starters. But they ended up getting solid seasons (overall) from Slowey, Blackburn and Perkins until near the end. Then again, the probability of "slippage" with Danks and/or Floyd is pretty high, and you never know when the wear and tear on Mark's arm/should with all those IP will end up in a trip to the DL, or worse, a Cris Carpenter type of situation. Of course, you PLAN on MB being healthy, but I don't think KW is 100% confident that Floyd can repeat his success/impact. I feel better about Danks, especially based on the last weeks of the season...heck, just the Minnesota one game playoff alone. GO HAWKEYES!!!!

It's still okay if he ends up a 1B and replaces Konerko a couple of years down the line. No problems with that, although the preference would be for him to play 3B. There's the option of moving him to LF when Quentin moves over to RF to replace JD, but that's a more long-term consideration. Like with Miggy Cabrera, he's going to have a rough time finding a position. Seems like they would prefer LF/3B but he will end up at 1B/DH in all probability. As I said, that's fine...if he can have the impact with his bat, and not Kendry Morales but 30-40 homers and a boatload of RBI's. Especially great on a "speculative" contract, as opposed to paying $11 million for Aaron Rowand for ONE SEASON to be adequate and giving up talent/compensation as well. The multi-year money numbers being bandied about are what we would pay Aaron or Vazquez in just one season. As mentioned, signing him to a 3-4 year deal is silly when his biggest impact would come in years 5/6 (expected). That's assuming his age is legit.

1) Ludwick or Ankiel for CF (because of the emergence of Rasmus) 2) Coco Crisp 3) Brandon Lyon (will be leaving D-Backs probably...) 4) Juan Cruz (ditto) Taking either Ankiel (because of the HGH) or Ludwick (sort of the Cardinals' version of Carlos Quentin) scares me a little, because we'd have to overpay IMO and both of them might struggle their first year in the AL making adjustments. I prefer a lot less talent going for Taveras. Crisp is someone that KW remains high on from everything I've heard. Cruz, and especially Lyon, would look nice in our pen, especially if we're actually shopping Jenks and/or Dotel.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=j...o&type=lgns Hope the Cubs don't get him...or they do and he goes Mike Hampton/Jaime Navarro/Barry Zito on them.

Joe Christensen has an update on the Twins' search for help on the left side of the infield. Minnesota is one of seven teams interested in Casey Blake, according to Blake's agent Jim McDowell. Blake hit .274/.345/.463 last year for the Indians and Dodgers this year. He's been released twice by the Twins, but he could come back to stabilize them at third base. Christensen has sources who suggest that the Twins are also targeting Yunel Escobar and J.J. Hardy in trades. If no deal is made, they could re-sign Nick Punto, who played 61 games at shortstop in 2008. The Twins are also interested in trading for Garret Atkins, who's six years younger than Blake and a better hitter. from mlbtraderumors.com PS Wonder if the White Sox are one of those six other teams? Maybe we'll hear more soon. I guess he could still be the "stopgap" or back-up move to go with Viciedo.

I think we need to take a step back and temper our enthusiasm a LITTLE bit. Sure, KW has a really good string going again with his moves, but eventually the string is going to be broken. That said, taking more Cuban players means 1) we're taking pure "baseball players" and not athletes masquerading as baseball players and 2) we're building up our depth chart and our minor league system is becoming at least semi-respectable again. Also, I would be much more willing to give someone like this kid a shot (in 2010 or 2011) than holding firm to the belief that Juan Uribe's going to be the key to us getting to another WS playing 3B for the Sox. It's one of those high reward/low risk moves...although, as mentioned, Alexei's success and the contract KW signed him to (highway robbery it seems now) is going to make all those scouts sitting around with eggs on their faces really overcompensate/overreact and perhaps rate this kid too highly and push their teams to sign him for fear of missing out. One thing, after reading that article which does get one a little bit excited...I wonder if the relationship between KW and Torres has reached the point where they will give the Sox a final chance to pony up more money if another team comes up with a significantly more attractive offer? It could be a lot of talk, but it APPEARS as if there is a lot of mutual interest on both sides, and "comfortability" is definitely a concern for placing this kid in the right big league situation and market.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 8, 2008 -> 04:21 AM) I'd much rather NOT see the Sox buy high on a soon-to-be 30-year-old former AAAA platoon player coming off of a career year in the National League. If we deal with the Phils and Victorino isn't an option as part of a package then I want the deal centered around Carrasco, but only if the Sox think Carrasco can become a #2-3 starter and pitch out of the back of the rotation in 2009. Personally I'd like to see us deal Javy, Jenks, Dye, and shop one of Swisher/Konerko in order to re-stock the farm, mainly with pitching prospects but also with a CF prospect to put alongside Danks. Shop Dotel too if someone wants to overpay knowing they'll most likely get Type A compensation after '09. If a corner OF spot opens up as a result then the Sox can pursue some guys who may come cheaper talent-wise via trade (meaning we deal more of the Shelby, Richard types and not the Poreda, Beckham, Danks types), like Randy Winn or Brian Giles. Or, sign a guy like Ibanez or Dunn to throw in LF for one year and take over for Thome as a LH DH after '09. Maybe even bring Griffey back as a LF/RF for one year since he wouldn't cost us any draft picks, or do the same with Juan Rivera or Garrett Anderson on a low base as part of a LF platoon. Either way, re-stock the farm and at the same time bring in a couple pitchers who can develop at the back of the rotation while also giving Fields a shot. Because of the strides our new core has made, we should be able to do something similar in '09 that we did in '08, which is partially rebuild yet still remain competitive. That way, going into 2010, we'll have a lot of money to spend, a very young team, and a much better farm system. I think we need to create a better foundation for the franchise to stand on so that we can compete for the next 10-20 years. Maybe I'm just naive, but the intentions behind the last two drafts, plus all the minor league changes including the discovery of the scouting and player development scandal, plus the moves Kenny has made since the 06-07 offseason to create younger core, all has me optimistic about the future. We just need to continue along those lines. That's all fine and good, but KW has always used the minor league system largely as a talent pool for his trades to improve the 25 man roster...at least up until this point. If you trade Jenks and Dotel, that puts an awful lot of pressure on Thornton and Linebrink, and Scott's "iffy" to me coming into 2009 as a reliable pitcher like the first four months of 08. I mean, we all know that we still have a long ways to go to really have a youthful team, and there hasn't been much recentl mention of AJ aging and his throwing problems (yes, 60-70% of it is the pitchers)...which is another major concern as well. If you trade Vazquez, Dye and Swisher/Konerko...well I just don't realistically see how you can compete in 2009...when the Twins will be better, the Indians and Tigers SHOULD be better and the Royals also are making strides. I agree fundamentally with what you're arguing, I just don't think KW is ready to do that quite yet. I do think he will see what is available in exchange for Jenks, Dye and Vazquez, not to mention Swisher and Konerko...but whether he actually pulls the trigger is another question altogether. In the back of his mind, KW knows if he did essentially the same thing with Buehrle and Dye in 2007, he wouldn't have gotten a Division Championship this year.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 09:44 PM) So what names from TB do we hear mentioned in trade rumors ? I hear Crawford mentioned right now the most. He's due the most money. If the Rays spent it will be to reward the young core not on a declining outfielder with a salary higher than any of it's current players even if it is for only a year. I'd say that's being smart about it. Still I won't deny it's possible of course just not probable. Like I said originally "doubtful . Besides the "pipe dreams" of Upton, there's Reid Brignac, Rocco Baldelli and taking on Fernandez Perez as a fourth OF to inject some more speed/defense. Lots of ideas about trading for Edwin Jackson/Niemann and E. Morlan.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 07:55 PM) Beltran makes 18.5 Mil in 09, 10, and 11 then becomes a free agent. He also has a full no trade clause. Plus I dont even want Beltran all the much. Hes a good run producer but why should we take on 55.5 Mil for 3 years for a guy that hits about .275-.280 with 30 Hrs. Thats basically Dye's career averages. If we trade Jenks and Vazquez I want Reyes at least. Unfortunately, the price would be Jenks/Danks or Jenks/Floyd, although I don't think KW would pull the trigger on a Danks move. For Floyd, probably. Just my sense. Maybe because at mid-season this year, there were a lot of rumors that Floyd was being included in multiple packages...that KW was trying to "sell high" and take advantage of Floyd's hot start as quickly as possible before he cooled off. Still, it's a very, very illogical thing to trade a young/affordable pitcher with Floyd's stuff and seeing how much he's already improved under the tutelage of Cooper and Guillen. Trading Javier, once again we would have to roll the dice on two spots in the rotation and hope that Danks/Floyd repeat. I don't like the odds of that, no matter how well Reyes plays...it almost always comes down to pitching. But year, with Hanley Ramirez and Sizemore, he's one of the most exciting players in the game today and it would be great to see a better version of "I love to watch Ray run." Heck, Harrelson would almost forget about Carlos Gomez, except when we played the Twins.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 07:38 PM) Yes I meant Ozzie's first season, 2004 was when Frank and Maggs went down. In 2003, Loaisa was awesome. Colon was solid, Buerhle started out horribly and rebounded. Garland was what he normally was Koch blew. The White Sox were in first place September 14 when they took the rubber game at Fenway when CLee got stuck on the Green Monster. With Koch being as bad as he was, he was replaced by Flash Gordon, Foulke was outstanding with the A's. The White Sox may have won that division. They had a solid team, but fell apart late. Their bullpen could have been Sullivan, Gordon, Foulke and an unbelievably good Marte. If they won, Ozzie may still be coaching 3rd somewhere. As far as Contreras, the White Sox did say when and if he returns he most likely will be used out of the bullpen. Too many memories of that time... 1) Buehrle begging to start at Yankee Stadium (when we were in a position to sweep) and Cotts wetting the bed and letting the Yanks off the hook 2) Foulke's decision to "voluntarily demote" himself from the closer role and KW's determination to get a fireballer 3) The lack of depth brought about by the Ritchie deal and a plethora of injuries and non-performance from our "waves of pitching" (Rauch, Wright, Barcelo, Parque, etc.) 4) The fact that Minnesota was smart enough to sign Kenny Rogers to a very cheap deal...and I'm convinced that the 5th starter's spot was one of the key differences that year. KW didn't rectify that until 2005 with the emergence of McCarthy and the acquisition of El Duque to go with Jose, Freddy, Mark and Garland. 5) Maybe it wasn't this season, but Koch serving up a game loser to Carl Crawford at the Trop into the RF seats around the 4th of July. I still don't think that Manuel could have led us to the World Series with the way that players like Magglio and Carlos Lee were not responding to his leadership, and the growing problems that were also evidenced in the clubhouse behaviors of Jimenez, Royce Clayton and Kenny Lofton.

It would have been nicer had we noticed Curtis Granderson in our own backyard, almost literally. Having him as our CFer would have solved a few of our problems...unfortunately, not leadoff...but he's a very, very good player. Not Sizemore-esque, but the next tier down. The strikeouts are the worst part of his game, and nullify (like they do with Chris Young) some of his other attributes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 08:23 PM) I'd say Mark Buehrle. Jim Thome. IIRC, both have pretty complete NTC's. I see Jenks going before Buehrle. I don't think KW is 100% confident he can bank on repeats from Danks and Floyd in 2009. Maybe. He is more likely to get predictability out of Buerhle and Vazquez IMO. Look at Cliff Lee. I'm not saying Danks will repeat his career path, but it's an interesting comparison. Of course, there was the "downswing" that came before he emerged last year as the best AL lefty, at least for one season. Floyd, while he was our stopper in the second half...it seems his ERA kept creeping up and up and up over the year, and part of that's natural, he pitched so many great games the first couple of months out of the blocks. You had the feeling he would end up around 4.50 if the season continued another month though. If you do trade Mark, do think KW is ready to look at Danks as a 1 and Floyd as a 2? I think the only reason would be if you traded Jenks/Buehrle and either Konerko or Dye and invested that money in someone like Sabathia as the #1, and I would be seriously shocked if that happened. Other than CC, there's no true "ace" pitcher out there that justifies spending north of $15 million per season. And no, while AJ Burnett has "ace" stuff, I don't for a second put him in the Halladay/Sabathia/Santana class.

Well, we also have the option of flip-flopping him with Quentin/Swisher as well. I think JD has a lot of pride about playing RF, and most of it comes from his arm, or at least the reputation of it. When I saw him play in Macon with the Braves in 1994, he had one of the best arms I ever saw in person (at the minor league level) of anyone, with just a couple of exceptions. Vladimir Guerrero and Ruben Rivera (before injury). Maybe a notch or two below Jose Guillen. It was never a "laser-like" arm like a Clemente or Vladdy or Bo Jackson, but solid/strong/accurate. Sosa, in his "Panther/White Sox/skinny" days, would be another good comparison. Most athletes don't know when it's "time" I guess. I would be surprised if he had very much experience in LF in his entire career...maybe a little research would back that up. Can he make the transition? Sure, yes, he's a good athlete still...just like he theoretically could shift to 1B. But it won't happen until 2010 (if he's still with the club).

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 08:03 PM) If the Sox were to trade Jenks, I doubt Thornton would be the closer. If they didn't acquire anyone, I think it would be Dotel. Don't laugh. For the majority of his outings in 2008 he was unhittable. For several he was meat. He hadn't pitched that much in several years. I think he'll be more consistent in 2009. With Poreda on the horizon and Contreras when and if he comes back moving to the bullpen, I think if KW can get a huge return, he would deal Jenks. There are too many things pointing against KW wanting to risk huge money on Jenks, who is suddenly going to start making money. Screw in the elbow, declining K rate, expanding waistline. While he still gets things done at a great clip, he seems to make it more interesting now. To get 3.5 years like he pitched out of a waiver claim and then turn that into a nice package before you really had to pay him anything isn't all bad. KW has done a good job getting rid of pitchers. The only one to really bite him in the ass was Foulke. Hawk always talks about how Ozzie might have had another WS title if Maggs and Frank stayed healthy in 2003. Ozzie may never have been the White Sox manager had Manuel had Foulke closing games instead of Koch for most of 2003 Are you sure you're not confusing years? Weren't Thomas and Ordonez out for most of 2004 and not 2003? I'm not sure...at one point around mid-season, after we'd chased down KC, we looked really good for about 2-3 weeks, but it's not like we were much over 10-15 games above .500. Maybe we had the most "talented" team in the majors then, but not the best overall. Cotts was getting some starts. Loiaza really wore down in the second half...and Colon was never really 100% motivated to pitch for us except when he felt like it. But yes, Koch was a huge issue, too. I don't think you can assume Contreras will come back into the bullpen...maybe. It seems with the way he prepares and needs time to get warmed up (like El Duque), it wouldn't be the best idea. Yeah, theoretically, his stuff would be even better over an inning or two. He could really let go of that fastball, and throwing everyday could actually have the affect of getting him not to overthrow the forkball. Then again, that forkball would lead to a lot of WP's in late-inning situations. As we know, he would be absolutely atrocious holding on runners. Then again, hard to be be worse than Gavin and Jenks in this area. Maybe it's something he could improve upon...but he's always had a pretty slow overall delivery to the plate, and that won't change, unless he fundamentally changes something with his delivery to compensate for the achilles', in which case he'll probably end up with an arm or shoulder problem and be done. Somebody mentioned Teixeira...haven't seen him pitch. I know Link did well but really isn't under any serious consideration internally. I think you have to look at Thornton, Dotel and Adam Russell. That's where I would begin the search at least.

The option for 2010 makes him a lot more attractive IMO. If he has a really good season and is basically injury-free, why wouldn't another team want to keep him? There are quite a few outfielders making more money that are much less productive than JD, and he comes with the added bonus of being great in the community, with kids and is a quiet/understated clubhouse leader/veteran presence. While Jenks, Buerhle and the Big 4 would be more valuable on the open market (maybe even Vazquez), I don't think we'll see him traded. KW knows that his leading the majors in homers since 2005 from his position gives him a net "plus" at that position every year. Unless he gets injured or his defense/range become so atrocious he's a problem, which certainly wasn't the case in 2008.

But they do get a bigger share of the pool (overall) if they're selling a higher percentage of caps than say, every team but the Yankees, Cubs and Red Sox? It's split exactly evenly? I can't remember. I do know they of course don't have to share the profits of merchandise/hats sold at US Cellular, but those in-stadium purchases now probably amount to a tiny overall percentage of the worldwide sales of White Sox hats/caps. It's a small world these days. I bought my last fitted New Era Sox cap in Hong Kong.

Brooks Boyer is salivating right now. Every time Obama is photographed wearing White Sox gear, it means purchases will be made in Africa, Asia, South America...all around the world, for those who see his presidency as a beacon of hope and fresh start for the US in the world again after 9/11. I wouldn't be surprised if the upswing meant additional millions over the next four-eight years in additional revenue streams...and even more and more rap stars, hip hop artists will be wearing Sox gear again. Just imagine all the young kids in Africa/Asia growing up with White Sox gear, like they have Michael Jordan jerseys now. Pretty cool.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 09:09 AM) Who is going to fix Penny's shoulder? Coop? Why Dr. James Andrews, of course. Or Dr. Frank Jobe.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 12:27 AM) You worked for Arthur Marshall? That's cool. Nicest guy I worked with: Herschel Walker (he donated his own time to be a keynote speaker, flew down at his own cost to Augusta....) Worst: Tie, Deion Snaders and Michael Irvin Unexpected: Jose Guillen. He helped lead us (GreenJackets) the 1995 SAL Championship. He was already kind of a legend in the system in his teens because of his arm from RF. He could do everything but run well. He almost got kicked out of the system before he ever made it out of extended spring training and DSL ball. Not a bad guy at all, he wants to win, I got along with him really well because I was able to help him out a little bit and I speak Spanish.