caulfield12

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:16 PM) Owens will be replacing him, and there is a damn good chance he will do a better job. Erstad and his .316 on base percentage won't be a huge loss. Yeah, I fully expect Owens to have a .350 OBP as the leadoff hitter. No pressure there, you're only coming into a five game losing streak with every writer in Chicago waiting to pounce on KW, Guillen and Walker after every single loss...pretty soon, they're going to be at the point where they fire Walker, simply because that's the way every sports franchise reacts to underachieving/underperformance. LOL. .350 That's where Erstad was as our leadoff hitter coming into the last couple of games, not sure exactly where he's at now. When Anderson, Sweeney and Fields have struggled and flirted with .200 as big leaguers, we're projecting someone who's not one of our Top 15 prospects to all of a sudden become another Juan Pierre or Bip Roberts? It took Crede and Rowand three seasons to "get it." If Crede has actually gotten it! By the way, Owens makes Johnny Damon look like Roberto Clemente or Vladimir Guerrero with that arm of his. He's not a CFer, which means we're playing Luis Terrero, a 27 year old former top prospect who the Orioles and D-Backs gave up on. This should be interesting.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ May 31, 2007 -> 09:49 PM) I really don't think attendance will suffer like it did before we won the World Series. You figure we aren't gonna resign Dye, or probably Iguchi. Crede will probably be gone at the end of 2008, if not before, so that frees up his salary. I really believe if we become sellers this year, I think Contreras will be gone, at least I hope he is. As I am writing this, Dusty Baker is on BBTN and he is predicting the Whitesox are gonna get white hot in the month of June, and only be 1 game behind the AL central leader!! hahaha All I am saying, I would do everything I could to keep Buehrle around. I'm not sure if he is gonna get Zito money, I know their numbers are comparable, but Zito also won a Cy Young, Mark hasn't. Plus the market is better this year for statring pitchers. I guess I am just hoping we hang on to this guy. Contreras can't be traded in 2007, no trade clause. QUOTE(southsideirish @ May 31, 2007 -> 09:59 PM) I hope Buehrle stays. I really don't like the thought of him on another team. If we want to get younger we should try to get what we can for the 60 year old that is the number 1 starter for our team. If we can keep Buehrle as a one and have the rest of the rotation with (2) Garland (3) Danks (4) Vazquez (5) Floyd/Gonzalez/Massett then it is both realistically affordable and young. That is if Buehrle isn't looking for Zito money. If he is then forget the whole thing. I don't think he is though. I would rather trade Crede and bring up Fields, Iguchi and give Chris Getz a chance (not sure if he is ready, but I like his attitude, the way he plays, and his numbers), Dye and bring up Sweeney. That is if the Sox are going to start looking at young players. If they are going to trade to try to compete this year then I would like to find a way to get Ichiro, Alexis Rios, and maybe a bullpen guy to go along with Jenks, Thorton and Massett. I still have faith McDougal will get right as well. We don't have anyone that the Jays would trade for Rios besides Gio/Russell/DeLosSantos. We simply cannot trade away young/affordable future starting pitching for position players. The Blue Jays are looking to keep their young players and weather the storm, and they'll be trading Glaus to the highest bidder, or competing with the White Sox if we try to deal Crede. Getz is another version of Aaron Miles or a poor man's Eckstein. He's not ever going to be an MLB regular, utility infielder and cheap replacement for Cintron/Ozuna/Mack is best case scenario. Who would Seattle possibly want on our roster? Not Dye, not Crede, they have Beltre there. The only thing we could give them is starting pitching, but it makes absolutely no sense for them to trade away their franchise player for relatively expensive veteran pitching.

QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:00 PM) That's a good question fathom... a good question. The same way the Yankees are in last place and haven't won since 2000, the Angels under Moreno haven't gotten back to the World Series despite a much higher payroll and liberal spending, the Dodgers, Cubs, Mariners, Giants, Red Sox (05-06, they have a good shot this year) and many other teams haven't had results by spending money. Generally, the top quartile teams are the ones that make the playoffs year in and year out, with the exceptions of the Marlins, A's and Twins. So unless you're one of those three teams, you need to spend at least $80-85 million to be competitive.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 31, 2007 -> 09:58 PM) Technically...I believe Mr. Thome's 2008 season is an option year at $14 million. We wouldn't get anything back in the way of draft picks if he walked, and for all I know there was some unwritten agreement related to picking that up if he was traded...but still, if we're really looking to rebuild and slash payroll... He is owed $43.5 million over the final three seasons of his $85 million, six-year contract. The deal also calls for the final $2.5 million of his $10 million signing bonus to be paid next year, normally the responsibility of the original club. Question. With the White Sox receiving $22 million, how exactly has that been allocated? $7.3 million per year? It seems like we're essentially paying him $8 million per year, correct, assuming we made the $2.5 million payment for the remainder of his bonus...? QUOTE(santo=dorf @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:03 PM) You find me a DH who'll put up the same numbers as Thome for $8 million or less for the next three years. You're already throwing in the towel for 2008? Man you're weak. I thought people giving up on this season lacked "marbles," but you're something else. Tex will be a free agent after 2008, so why should the Sox trade for him if they aren't going to be competitive until 2009? Nevermind. KW lacked marbles last year to improve the team. Why should the fans have any faith in him? He went cheap and tried to build for the future and compete at the same time, and you simply cannot do that without a well-stocked minor league system that produces a couple of bonafide regulars each season. We produce a regular seemingly every five years. Why should I have faith in something that the best thing you can say about it, our magnificent new and improved bullpen, is currently our weakest link? The only way they should trade for him is if they can sign him to an extension, like they did with Garcia. That would have to be agreed upon before the trade, and, as noted, it's HIGHLY unlikely that Boras won't take him into Free Agency. So you think we're going to be able to compete by plugging in Owens or Sweeney into the OF? Heck, Mackowiak's not even a regular player, and now he can't run. Lovely. Okay...I shouldn't be surprised, you're probably an ISU fan who thought McCarney was actually going to turn around the Cyclones too.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ May 31, 2007 -> 09:55 PM) Guess we won't be seeing you as much in Pale Hose Talk? Doubt you live up to it. Erstad isn't a major loss. Umm...and that's because Terrero will do such a good job replacing him? Let me guess, you prefer Sweeney or Anderson in CF? Well, that's not going to happen, I highly doubt we'll ever see Brian Anderson with the major league team again.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ May 31, 2007 -> 09:51 PM) Thome is a lot better against RHP than Tex, and he's not waving his NTC to leave Chicago. You would have to be a complete Jackass to take a year and a half with Teixiera and Boras over 2 and a half years of Thome for about $8 million per. Teixeria away from that damn bandbox in Arlington this year: .250/.367/.480/.847 yawn. Thome doesn't do much good, due to the fact that we won't be competitive again until 2009 or 2010, so you have to try to get younger eventually. I guess they can keep Thome and Konerko and Jim can get his 500th HR in front of 22,000 fans. If I were Thome and went from joining a team that was heading back for another World Series and is now headed in the direction of 2-3 .500 seasons, wouldn't you want to join an organization that gave you the best chance to win it all, like the Angels or possibly the Yankees? I feel bad for Jim that he'll have to waste two years of his career with no chance at all to get to post-season play.

QUOTE(chisoxt @ May 31, 2007 -> 08:09 PM) This post makes zero sense. This Sox team should be a seller, not a buyer. The top half is all the teams that are shopping and I matched them with Sox players that are a possible fit. Most websites still have them looking for bullpen help, but doing it "internally," which means we're screwed for all intents and purposes. Do I need to bring back my fire sale posts from a month ago? I was trying to be a little optimistic, or at least giving both the "sellers" and "buyers" something to talk about, besides our horrific level of play.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 31, 2007 -> 07:21 PM) OK, so we don't call a hit-and-run with AJ on first...the way Halladay's dealing, you like the chances for AJ to move one base to the next in the next few at-bats till he scores? Really? Right now he's allowed 5 hits in 6 innings. AJ goes first to third on a successful hit-and-run, but otherwise it'd take 3 hits to get him home, 2 if we're lucky. You confident we get those hits to get AJ from first to home? I'm much more confident that Scarlett Johanssen is in the Maxim Top 10 hottest next year...than that happening at this point of the demi-tragedy that is the White Sox season.

QUOTE(SnB @ May 31, 2007 -> 07:15 PM) let's all welcome brian anderson back to teh ballclub. Season over. Bring on Owens, just to piss off the Anderson fans even more.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2007 -> 06:39 PM) f*** this team. Rob Mackowiak seems to get thrown out at home once a week also. At least things aren't predictable. It would be ONE thing if Mackowiak was healthy and could actually run, that would make trying to score asinine. They can't get a DP, so you just stay at your base. And Rob couldn't score on a single to CF from 2nd base if Johnny Damon fielded the ball at the warning track.

QUOTE(TheOcho @ May 31, 2007 -> 06:35 PM) Watch... we won't score.. We f***ing better. When is Mackowiak going on the DL? He's definitely injured.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ May 31, 2007 -> 04:48 PM) Bs. You just break it down into enough steps to make it sound "complex". The Sox needed to get one out, then have a better inning before the Twins did. Certainly not "complex", and if that's really only remotely possible, then this team is truly hopeless. We probably would have faced Nathan again, as he only threw a handful of pitches. Impossible? Well, Iguchi almost got to him and Konerko had a huge homer (if I'm recalling correctly) to tie a game against Minnesota off Joe as well, or maybe it was Dye, but one of those two.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ May 31, 2007 -> 03:38 PM) The problem is who are we gonna replace him with? There sure as hell isn't anyone in our system. Robert Valido looked like he could be a solid option a couple of years ago but that has taken a downward spiral. I'm not sure which SS are FA's at the end of this year, or which ones will be available in trades. Uribe isn't the greatest SS, but he is still one of the best defensive SS in MLB. I HOPE KW is smart enough not to try to rebuild around Vizquel or Eckstein.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ May 31, 2007 -> 12:45 PM) Don't forget how fans would be impatient about how quickly the youngsters are developing. Look, all GMs have good and bad trades/drafts/signings. Some are better (Beane, Schuerholtz, Dombrowski) some are worse (Steve Phillips, Wayne Krivsky)...but all try to keep winning with what they are given. Do we trade all these players to fill up the farm system? Fine, but be prepared for near or below .500 for a couple of years. I think we definitely need some youth to mix it up, but it's still a crap shoot. AND don't forget, the injury bug has hit the Sox pretty hard this year. I think fans are intelligent enough to realize we're behind the 8 Ball due to the Tigers' pitching and middle of the order, the Indians' overall strength and youth, the Twins' new stadium and scouting/development advantages...it would be one thing if we were in the NL Central, and I bet Cardinals fans are simply pissed that they didn't do more to put together a ballclub that was competitive for 2007 after winning last year. It's one thing to have the division there for the taking, it's another to have to wait for 3-5 moves to work out perfectly in order to get to 90 wins, which might not even get you a whiff of the playoffs.

Dunn would give you loads of K's, homers, lousy defense and a large salary. It would still be better than Terrero/Mack/Sweeney though. Baldelli's a possibility, simply because of his injury history, so many teams are now shying away from what their GM is asking for, and they can't easily trade Dukes....maybe we should give Gomes or Cantu a shot, just for an offensive infusion. The defensive downside would be pretty bad, though. Mora's played all over the field in his career, although he has stuck at 3B for the last half decade. If you could make him a LF or 2B, you would have something, because of his offensive ability...although he's in that "grey" area, along with Tejada, because of his advancing age.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ May 31, 2007 -> 12:47 PM) Where would you see Texiera fitting in with the Sox? You'd have to trade Thome, move Konerko to DH and make Teixeira the starter at 1B. That would make Konerko a very expensive DH, and I don't think he'd go for that...but Mark is one of the few big names out there that are "younger" players and more intriguing. He could hit lefties better than Thome as well.

QUOTE(Chet Lemon @ May 31, 2007 -> 12:34 PM) I wouldn't trade/or not resign Dye unless one of the following: a) other team makes a great offer of young prospects B) kw signs an Ichiro-type FA in the offseason Because we can't afford multiple ?'s in the outfield come spring. I'm not even sure Dye will be capable of playing 145 games in RF or LF for 2008.

Teams that might be looking at Sox players Giants, Dodgers, Angels, Brewers=Joe Crede (although Braun is long-term solution for MIL) Angels=Dye Braves=any starter, Mack and/or Cintron Brewers=Thornton, Logan or Sisco Cubs=will trade outfielders for pitching help Mets=pitching Phillies=bullpen Yankees=pitching Possible targets of interest for the White Sox... Mark Teixeira Dunn Griffey Rich Harden Noah Lowry Jose Capellan--Milwaukee (reliever) Jose Castillo--Pitt. Chris Burke Willy Mo Pena Baldelli Chad Cordero Melvin Mora (OF)

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 31, 2007 -> 11:39 AM) So out of curiousity, for those who want to see it, if Kenny Williams were to sell off all of the marketable older parts in the next couple of months, how many of you still be buying tickets to ballgames in September and into 2008? How many would wait for the team to recover and get good again before they went to games again? I know a few people's answers (Steff, I know you will be there), but I am curious to hear if those who are supporting a firesale would still support them team financially. Statistically, it takes five years to lose all the positive elements of winning a World Series out of an organization, 1998 and 2004 Marlins notwithstanding. KW can try to remain competitive for one more year, but I don't think it's possible without Buehrle. I guess it's something of a mixture of late 2006, and 2007 mixed with 2003, the year after we sold off Howry, Lofton, Baldwin, Durham and a few others but remained competitive. I would guess we'd be averaging around 23,000-25,000 per game, just throwing out a range. And that our payroll would be adjusted back to 2005 levels...$70-80 million. And KW would have to swallow and laugh off his comments about being a championship organization that reloads, any similarities to the Braves or Yankees, competing w/ the Cubs for the heart of the city's fans, etc. I'm just not sure how easily he can protect his ego after being on top in 2005. I think he still is in "add" mode rather than subtract.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 31, 2007 -> 11:27 AM) I agree we will improve with the proper shakeup, but it will take more than that to finish 2nd in this division. Agreed with everything else though, the fact Jerry Owens isn't in LF and hitting leadoff for us right now, when you take into account the year he's having, his age, and our injury problems, is pretty strange to me. And the fact we haven't already blown up the bullpen (that's the one thing we all know sucks) is also strange to me considering their salaries, age, and arbitration status. How can you call the 9th yesterday up for debate? It was horribly managed and a big reason why the game didn't go extras, and leaving your best bullet in the holster when it's based loaded 2 outs for Torii Hunter is one of the worst moves I've ever seen Ozzie make. But again, how am I a Guillen basher when I'm telling you KW and Wilder are higher on the firing squad totem pole, as are many of the players, than Ozzie at the moment? How do you "blow up" our current bullpen? Dump MacDougal and get nothing in return after trading Lumsden for him? Obviously, Sisco and probably Aardsma now are ticket for Charlotte. Do you want to trade Jenks or Thornton? Well, that doesn't solve anything in the long-term either. Logan deserves to stay...we probably will try to add a veteran righty and pay way too much to do it. I just don't see how sending Day and Aardsma back down to the minors is not in the cards. Which leaves Jenks/Thornton/Logan, Masset (if he's not a starter next year) possibly MacDougal and then what? Unfortunately, we don't have any top prospects that can be counted on as a relievers, so you're left converting Floyd, Phillips, Broadway, Haeger and possibly Gio or Russell into mop-up men. It's not

QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2007 -> 11:20 AM) This is a great point. This offense, combined with how Ozzie wants to manage, is a terrible combination. That's why KW and Ozzie deserve a lot of blame for how things have fallen so fast in the last 120 games or so. As you keep saying, we need more athletes. Teams usually have athletic 2b and SS....we clearly don't. Uribe is a fine athlete, he just isn't a very proficient base stealer, and his weight gain last year hurt him. Iguchi is aging, no doubt about that. So if you're looking at Castillo-Casillas/Bartlett, Barfield/Peralta, Guillen/Polanco and even Grudzielanek/Pena, they're all probably more physically gifted and athletic than what we put out there, although you can make an argument we're even with the DET middle infield combo athletically...or pretty close. So we go out and get someone like Erick Aybar from the Angels and hope he emerges into a solid 700-750 OPS middle infielder who can get you 25-35 steals per season. Playing Aybar, a natural SS at first, also makes our infield defense a heckuva lot stronger, if we can find the right SS to pair with him. The irony is that Uribe is the youngest of our regulars, and it seems as if he has been around 15 years in the big leagues.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:53 AM) IMHO K-Dubs best moments was buying Loaiza so low and selling him so high. I can't think of another situation where I team was so right twice on the same player. Yeah, it's hard to beat the original Jenks and Loiaza deals. Of only Gil Heredia would have returned to his old form, we might have won it all in 2003.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:51 AM) There's no harm in keeping Haeger in AAA for even a couple of more years. Do the Sox really have 5 elite starting prospects needing to be in Charlotte ? If they did, I think they dump Nunez first. It's worth taking a risk on Haeger in case he becomes another Wakefield. It's not costing the Sox anything and if he's looking good but they decide they are uncomfortable with a knuckler then they can trade him. But, I wouldn't bring him up this year - never until his command is good. I'd stick with bringing in the 4-A guys for now. Maybe one will get hot. The problem is that he has to get to the point where he can consistently go 6 innings and keep his team in the game. Haeger might throw a shutout one game (with wind aid) and then get knocked out of the first inning in the next ballgame. I think this scares managers, that there's no "middle ground" with most knuckleballers, they get bombed or are aces. This can also, obviously, have a negative effect on a bullpen as well.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:30 AM) Ok, if the Sox don't turn things around in the next 3-4 weeks we can pretty certain that the playoffs are out and this team needs an overhaul. I can't see any reason to hold onto but a few of the position players. catcher - A.J. and Hall - might as well keep them. Better to focus efforts on improving the team elsewhere. shortstop - Uribe - why keep him for $ 6 mil. when it shouldn't be that hard to replace him with a young SS with upside that's cheap. Maybe one that can get on base at a good rate. Trade him now or pickup his option and then trade him - whichever is easier. second base - Iguchi - I like him but he should be traded now. This is a KEY position. Second basemen are the most underrated and inexpensive of all positions. The Sox need to get a great athlete here. Find a guy like Brian Roberts or Hudson for example - can hit, steal, leadoff and field. Even if you have to pay $ 7 or 8 mil. a year here it could be well worth it. third base- trade Crede now or at the end of the season at the latest. Fields could probably be close to his equal overall right now. This makes us younger, faster ,more athletic - more TWIN-LIKE. First base and DH - keep Konerko and Thome. The Sox would be best served going younger, faster and more athletic around the rest of the diamond and keeping what they have in these 2 big boppers. Outfield- keep Sweeney and Erstad. Yes, I said Erstad. Believe me, I thought getting him was ridiculous but he's really been fine. The Sox would be well served to keep these 2 and add 2 more young outfielders with high upside such as Milledge and Baldelli. A good mix of 3 young guys and Erstad would be ideal - 2 lefties and 2 righties that can play all 3 outfield positions. Might as well trade Anderson, too. starting rotation- keep Vazquez and Garland. I'm not in love with either one of them but they are signed, durable and average or better. Keep Danks. I would like to see Buehrle re-signed but that won't happen now so they must trade him. I would also trade Contreras now or after the season at the latest. He's too inconsistent and isn't getting any younger. bullpen - what are you going to do ? They got a bunch of young guys that throw hard. They wanted that and knew that most of them didn't have command yet. Why else would they have been available ? They aren't bad. They are young and need time. I'd hold onto them if I could. So, I see no point in keeping Dye, Buehrle, Uribe, Pods, Anderson, Iguchi, Crede or Contreras. I'm pretty darn sure that if the Sox unloaded all of these guys along with a few prospects that they could acquire 2 good young outfielders, a young SS and some excellent pitching prospects. They could sign a free agent second basemen. Even an elite one is not that expensive. I think they could be very competitive next year if they did this. I think it would be a huge mistake not to get anything for Dye, Buehrle, Pods and Iguchi and not to get what they can for Uribe, Crede and Contreras. Payroll would also be significantly reduced by doing this so that if a team needed to unload a really good player in a salary dump , the Sox could be there ready. Anyway, that's what I'd do if I could. Trading 7 pretty good big leaguers should net an excellent haul of good young players and top tier prospects to fill really just a few spots and who knows maybe there'll be a star or two in the bunch. Besides, it's been very evident this year that the Sox farm system is almost barren of talent. They really need to reload here for some depth. Why is that the Twins always seem to bring up players anywhere on the diamond to replace injured players and they perform as well the starters ? And, the Sox get nothing when they dip down for help. The question with Hudson or Roberts (and any trade)...are they on the upside or downside of their careers? With both these guys, you're paying them for past performance, which is not always a good indicator of future success (sounds like a mutual fund ad!), especially with players in their early 30's. Same thing with Castillo...look how fast Robbie Alomar went south, or Sandberg. I think the best we can hope for is acquiring someone like Erick Aybar and hoping he can come close to a 700 OPS one or two years down the line. We're not going to get those numbers from Andy Gonzalez or Chris Getz IMO. At any rate, you can't trade Iguchi now, his value is at an all-time low...if the fans see him lack of quickness, defensive lapses, lack of crispness on his throws, well, the scouts can see that TOO. I doubt Josh Fields is going to get more than 10-12 steals in any season, but he can run the bases better than Crede, I'll give him that much. It's going to be very difficult to balance providing playing time for Terrero/Sweeney/Owens/Fields/Anderson (if not traded or doomed to rot in Charlotte) and also maximizing the trade value of Pods, Crede and Mackowiak, among others. The Twins don't necessarily have better young players, but the players they do bring up have all bought into the Twins' system, they are fundamentally sound and they RARELY beat themselves, as we saw the Sox do yesterday.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:13 AM) Just my opinion, but I think you'll be very disappointed in the return the Sox get when the sell off this season. Contreras won't fetch Andrus alone, let alone Salty to boot. Jose is old and that contract would be an albatross for Atlanta. Dye migth fetch a single C level prospect (think of the Ray Durham trade). Garland and Buehrle I think could get the same return the Sox got for Garcia -- a B level pitching prospect. Crede's back, performance and cost make him untradeable for anything valuable. The problem with a poorly performing team is that you can't get much for players playing badly. Dye might be the biggest bat available on the market, and, despite his .240ish and climbing average, he's still projecting to 35 homers and 100+ RBI's. Think that doesn't have any value to a team like the Angels? Last year, we were willing to give up our best pitching prospect (almost) for Soriano. Dye's not quite in the same league as Soriano (reputation-wise), but baseball insiders love what Dye can bring to a team in terms of leadership and presence. We'll get something much better than Jon Adkins if we trade him, plus the team that acquires him will only have to pay $2.5-3.5 million for the remainder of the season, so that opens up the bidding to teams like the Brewers who wouldn't be able to take on a big contract, even for a half season. Contreras could be VERY valuable to any NL team that needs a #2 starter, although that contract (through 2009) will work against him, even though it's not a bad contract, and Contreras had a low 2's ERA for all of his starts this season, with the exception for his first and last start. Don't write him off yet...and he should get better in June and July as the weather heats up. You're undervaluing Buehrle and Garland way too much. How can you say Garland has no value, based on his affordable contract, his age and his durability? We could get much better than Floyd/Gio back, as the Astros proposed trade would suggest. Buehrle will be one of the Top 5 Free Agents available...and the #1 pitcher over Zambrano if Carlos doesn't go on the market, and maybe ahead of Z anyway with the way he's pitched for the Cubs this season, his emotional immaturity, etc. I think Zambrano will get more money than Buehrle, but MORE teams will be interested in Mark because of what he brings to the table. If Crede stays healthy for the next couple of months, there will be a couple of teams willing to take a chance on him, since he's a proven playoff/WS performer, a great defender, and the downside risk isn't as great since he's affordable and they wouldn't have to keep him past 2008 if he had back problems next year.