caulfield12

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:55 PM) In order Danks Gio Egbert Buehrle Vazquez Sweeney Fields Cunningham Jenks I can only manage 9, and after that it's just a crap shoot, and or players who don't figure to be effective for the Sox next division title team. I don't even think you can count on Jenks to be effective 3 years from now, which should be the current (realistic) target for the Sox to be back (fighting) on top again. Are you sure you're not overvaluing Egbert a TAD? Vazquez? The interesting thing about Jenks and Thornton, they might be among the players with the most trade value, because of their affordable contracts, the value of lefty set-up men who throw 95-97 and Jenks' playoff experience. Realistically, if you look at how many closers we've gone through in the last decade (Hernandez, Howry, Foulke, Koch, Gordon, Takatsu, Hermanson, Jenks), it would seem to be the most overvalued member of many ballclubs, unless you're Mariano Rivera/Hoffman in their primes, Joe Nathan, a healthy Gagne, etc. I'll wait until Cunningham succeeds in AA before jumping on that bandwagon....same with the Faustino De Los Santos fan club. QUOTE(Heads22 @ May 30, 2007 -> 10:30 PM) I'd bump Buehrle in front of Jack and Gio. I'd probably move up Jenks too, but pretty spot on with what I think. Since Garland's name hasn't come up yet, despite his relative youth, am I to assume we'd prefer to keep Vazquez over Jon, or simply that we believe Garland might become prohibitively expensive and we could get a decent package in return for him, like the proposed Astros' move? Going by the buy low, sell high philosophy, you would think Garland would give us a pretty decent return, despite his lack of eye-popping stats. Just trot out the 36 wins in 05-06 stat, that's the most impressive.

baseball that would you personally would like to see stay with the organization through the end of 2008 (and beyond)? Let's just call them "building blocks" for the future, although I know a few will blink once or twice at Thome and Konerko's names. I'll try to average out the results over time to get a clearer picture of where everyone stands as a composite. 1. Buehrle 2. Konerko 3. Danks 4. Garland 5. Thome (we have to maintain some left-handed pop, plus his OBP is so strong) 6. Jenks 7. Gio Gonzalez 8. Sweeney 9. Fields 10. Tie-Thornton/Russell

If you go to the front page of the Tribune right now, there's a poll question, would the White Sox be better off without Ozzie? 43.5% said yes. I find this funny, since the Cubs have an even worse record in a much weaker division, yet there are no polls about firing Piniella that I've seen.

QUOTE(daa84 @ May 30, 2007 -> 04:08 PM) i agree....but finding him for that one year....wouldnt you call that a gem? id say in 05 we found 3 gems in cotts hermie and politte...at least for that year, the difference is the twins are smart enough to realize it and replace those guys instead of counting on them like we did Don't forget Jenks, four relievers "discovered" in one season

QUOTE(joeynach @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:53 PM) What annoys me is that Twins just arent that good. They have no pitchers outside of Santana and Boonser is decent. They have 4 good hitters; Morneau, Hunter, Mauer, Cuddyear and a cast of clown who all struggle to hit .250. He was throwing at least 95 every pitch when he was striking those guys out early. Before Mac started struggling Aardsma could just come in and rear back and fire. Now he is trying to be fine cuz he is being used in pressure situations with no room for error, since that role I haven't seen him above 92 on the gun. Terrible. And that's what Sox fans have been repeating five of the last six years... 1) We're more talented 2) It's the Dome's fault 3) They always seem to get lucky breaks Who's responsible for the Twins overachieving and "creating" their own breaks? Who's responsible for the White Sox scraping the bottom of the barrel to figure out new and innovative ways to lose ballgames over and over again to inferior teams?

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:38 PM) If you bring in Jenks in that situation, and he gets Hunter out, then he easily can go in the next inning. It's not like he would have to throw too many pitches in the 9th, and he would face one batter at the max. Aardsma is a horrible, horrible match-up against Hunter due to their fastball tendencies. Nope, he's terrible. Also, the Reds would want a solid prospect for him, as I'm sure other teams like the Tigers would inquire about him. The Tigers are without Zumaya and Rodney, DD and that ownership group will spend the money to fix that bullpen, be sure of that. And Grilli hasn't pitched well either. I think I saw something about Roman Colon possibly coming back.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:38 PM) If you bring in Jenks in that situation, and he gets Hunter out, then he easily can go in the next inning. It's not like he would have to throw too many pitches in the 9th, and he would face one batter at the max. Aardsma is a horrible, horrible match-up against Hunter due to their fastball tendencies. Nope, he's terrible. Also, the Reds would want a solid prospect for him, as I'm sure other teams like the Tigers would inquire about him. And the fact that he got a hit on Monday (bases clearing double) in that same situation, right? Or was that just my imagination?

QUOTE(briguy27 @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:33 PM) i dont think anyone is asking for a juggernaut. i think they just want this team to perform at a higher level, and not be in 4th f***in place. ichiro? griffey? weathers? We're not in a position that selling the remainder of our farm system (see Gio, Russell, De Los Santos for Ichiro) makes any sense at all. Those names are players that you add when you have a sure-fire 85-90 win team to put you over the top. I don't think anyone could say that we're that good. What do you do in 2 years when we have absolutely NO minor league pitching and have to pay through the fist for it....which the White Sox have never shown a willingness to do? You get fifth starters like the White Sox ran out there from 01-04, costing us dearly in 2003, when all we had to do was spend $3-4 million on someone like Kenny Rogers, who the Twins, once again, beat us to, despite their obvious lack of resources and revenues.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:30 PM) So it has nothing to do with the fact that are offense doesnt score past the 3rd inning, that Jon Garland walked 5 batters, that Mac loaded the bases in the 9th or the error in the ninth. We have to be able to trust any of our bullpen to win games in tight spots. You cant always depend on one guy. Konerko definitely deserves a 25% share of the blame, along with our offense after Baker left, Ozzie's decision making with the pen is probably 25%, and Garland's lack of control...I don't think they would have gotten an out anywhere on the field with forceout, it would have been an interesting play at first, but Cintron doesn't have the arm to get the ball there from deep in the hole.

QUOTE(briguy27 @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:28 PM) 5 days off. WHY?!!?!?!? I'm hoping Cowley and Gonzalez and Gregor will have the temerity to ask...

QUOTE(briguy27 @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:25 PM) yea but ozzie could of brought in jenks and wouldnt have to worry about anything. jenks hasnt pitched in what, 8 days? May 25th versus TB, one inning

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:20 PM) Somebody except the closer pitching the 9th is accepted baseball managing mentality. Everyone does it, saving the closer for later. The obvious question is, "How do you get to later?" Like sliding into first, this mentality probably won't go away and madden many, many people. Scioscia almost always uses K-Rod to "shorten the game" in these situations, despite their fine bullpen. And Gardenhire used Nathan in a tie game, although it was "at home."

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:15 PM) until we improve our drafting, player development and minor league system, we're going to struggle to be consistent. can't keep counting on rejects from other teams -- like Sisco, Aardsma, MacDougal, Masset, Cintron, Pods, Toby Hall. Oakland didn't want to keep Dye nobody else wanted Iguchi Colorado gave up on Uribe Arizona wouldn't start Cintron at SS LA bailed on Erstad's huge contract droves of people weren't after AJ, Hermanson or El Duque Jenks was waived by Angels Contreras was dumped for Loaiza, even though Esteban's arm was falling off Seattle gave up on Thornton Really, the only "desired" players on our team were Crede, Konerko (after two other organizations threw in the towel), Thome (after Philadelphia dumped him for Howard), Buehrle, Garland, Vazquez (by KW and a few GM's who have fallen in love with him) and Danks, pretty much. Except we lost that CHIP ON OUR SHOULDER sometime in the late October nights of 05...and really lost it around the All-Star break of 06.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:13 PM) Weathers lessens the burden on them, so they can build up their confidence by not having to pitch in the 8th or 9th all the time. Who would you rather see on in the 9th in this particular game? Weathers has walked 8 batters this season. Aardsma has given 15 a free pass, and same with MacDougal. Jenks. This is a game you have to win, and you use him for two innings, at least. It's coming early, last year the White Sox being swept (and passed) by the Twins was the harbinger of doom, this year it's not even June and the Sox are Dead Man Walking. There's only a handful of players on this team that even consistently hustled...Ozuna, Erstad, Sweeney, Thome and Terrero.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:11 PM) You can't guarantee that. Plus, like I said, the Cincy park sees the most homers in baseball. And Sisco would need to throw strikes, first. We're beyond David Weathers at this point...we have two relievers now. Last year we had three. This team and organization are sinking like the Lusitania.

QUOTE(AirScott @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:07 PM) Does anybody agree with me, that we make a move for David Weathers of the Reds? He's 37 years old, he had a 2.08 ERA before his latest outing shot it up to 4.30, but his WHIP is 1.08 and he hasn't allowed a homer this season, even as a member of the team whose park has the most home runs in the majors. Like I've said, he's someone who can't be described as shaky. I just don't think the bullpen is that far off. MacDougal and Aardsma might be SHOT mentally, perhaps for the rest of the season. Since the Thames homer, Aardsma has been pitching about as well as Dewon Day. MacDougal can't be your set-up man walking one hitter per inning...not throwing 93-95 instead of 96-98, he's not missing enough bats now. This team doesn't need David Weathers, we need an enema, starting with KW and OG. We almost always find a way to lose to the Twins in their park, and they almost always let us do that...and they hustle throughout the line-up. Owned by the Twins five of the past six years, and counting. What new?

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:01 PM) Losing a game after being 6-1 via the bases loaded walk... NOTHING LIKE WHITE SOX BASEBALL!! Firesale time! Get it done Kenny. I want to be a winning team again in 2 years. Ship out everyone but Garland and Konerko. Why keep Garland, wasn't he partially responsible for today's loss TOO?

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ May 30, 2007 -> 02:57 PM) Aardsma won't do any better than Logan. Didn't Hunter have a double to LCF on Monday in this same exact situation after Logan got Morneau out? Can't wait for the second guessing, lol. The Twins' announcers were going crazy thinking they were actually going to leave him in, Sox fans are cringing with Aardsma, knowing how he's pitched recently. UGH. Catch-22. Then there's another group who would prefer to bring in Jenks, but he could be very wild after not pitching for 4-5 games.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 02:50 PM) Like how we didn't pitch MacDougal last night in a blow out....it sure would be nice to try and get his confidence up in non-pressure outings before throwing him out into a tie game. Only in Minnesota. Perfect! It's almost getting to be laughable, I actually expected something bad to happen on that play...like throwing it down the LF line.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 02:48 PM) Way to walk the least powerful hitter in the history of baseball. 16 walks in less than 18 IP...I would rather have someone hit their way on and beat us by swinging the bat against Aardsma than MacDougal.

QUOTE(chisoxfan79 @ May 30, 2007 -> 02:46 PM) See you guys later I have to get ready for work. It's probably better to miss this. Tyner will walk, steal and Punto/Pirahna will drive him in.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ May 30, 2007 -> 02:44 PM) Can't bring in Jenks until we take a lead why waste him? Because we'll be out of the division race and won't even need Jenks at this rate. We need to win this game, period. You blow a 6-1 lead and then send MacDougal out there, you're sending a signal to your team that you're giving up.

QUOTE(CYGarland @ May 30, 2007 -> 02:43 PM) Macdougal in.........game over This is sickening, you put a guy with 15 walks and numerous wild pitches/passed balls in 17 innings, in the most important inning of the most important game so far this season??? And the best we have is MacDougal? We are DOOMED.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 02:40 PM) What a fantastic 0-5 for Erstad. I'll tell you what, he isn't a good hitter, but he's one of the best players you'll ever see. What happened? Someone rob Iguchi of a homer? It might have been a homer, but Kubel made it exciting...he drifted with it, back to the wall, instead of just going back to the wall and waiting for it to come down. Sort of a humpback liner, just didn't elevate it enough. A Tale of Two Bullpens here today folks, six shutout innings. EDIT: WE OBVIOUSLY DON'T WANT TO WIN THIS GAME, WHY SHOULD WE EVEN WATCH????

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 30, 2007 -> 02:39 PM) 3 pitches and 2 outs. What a dumb group of hitters we have. There's this season in a nutshell...a day late and a dollar short. I'll be shocked in the Twins don't win now.