29thandPoplar

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 11:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Here's the thing...unless we open up the checkbook for the draft next year, all these possibly supplementary picks we'll have will be useless. We'll have to spend most of the budget on the first pick. When don't they sign their high draft picks? They always do. Go back to Bobby Hill and Weaver and Seay, those are prob. the last ones.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In reality, it's not about Buehrle. I'm just puzzled as to how we can legitimately build a playoff contender without giving out NTC to our free agents, not getting into biddiing wars for top free agents, not going after Boras clients, and not going after draft picks well above slot money. I'm also not looking forward to seeing Vazquez and Contreras be our 1-2 pitchers. So basically, give the players whatever they want. Not sure that works too well in the long run, or the short run for that matter.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Fathom why so emotional? With the exception of this year the sox have been in contention for many years, they are usually one player short and its not necessarily the prime players. last year we won 90 games and we would have won the division if Buerhle was himself and andersen was slightly decent. We easily could have won 6 more games if not for those two underperformers alone. Once you get emotional about players every perspective gets lost except the emotion. Buerhle was going to get 14 million a year and a typical Buerhle season is about 14 or 15 wins. Thats a million dollars a win. I think that is pretty fair and who knows what the market will be later. Buehrle wants added security and the sox want a way out of the contract (via Trade) if they deem so at a particular time. I think thats fair as well. No team should be handcuffed. In fact I would argue the sox were handcuffed on contraras this year until he said he would waive his no trade to the mets. I am actually not siding with anyone but it seems that this contract with a limtied no trade clause is somewhere in the middle of what both wanted. Could very well be the best post in this thread, cant say it much better, nicely done.

Where in that article does Williams say anything, I read the online version and the print copy and don't see any quotes from KW.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You can't trade 10/5 guys, so by your logic if we have a veteran that's been here for 5 years or a guy that's been in our system for 10 years, we can't ever keep them because hey, we can't trade them!! You may already know this or may have implied this with your post, but to clarify: A 10/5 guy can be traded, he just has to give his permission. It does happen. It is not a guy who's been in the system for 10 years, but 10 active years on a major league 25 man roster with the last 5 being with one team. It includes DL stints by the way, not that DL has been an issue for Buehrle. Again, you may have implied this by your post, just wanted to clarify.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Over/under on days til he is traded? Heads22, Anderson has some rotator cuff tendonitis in his throwing shoulder. I wonder if this will make him non tradeable for this year. Tough to say.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That would make me right. I did not read your post, but the rule is based on years of service, not days of service. 10 full years of MLB service, 5 full years MLB service with the same team. So yes, effective start of 2011 season. This also means that Merkin appears to be on the right track. He said in his article the Buehrle camp wants a full no trade for the full duration of the contract, which has been said to be 4 years. After 4 years of the contract, he gets no trade rights anyways, i.e. beginning of 2011 season. Should the White Sox grant a no trade clause, full, for 4 seasons, that is the question it seems. They seem to think it's not a wise business practice. Many will disagree. That is, if all this media chatter is true.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Buehrle will reach 7 years of service time just after the All-Star break. He came up July 17th (i believe) of 2000, and has been here ever since. The 10/5 rights would kick in on July 17th (i think) of 2010, the third year of the contract. The rule is based on 10 years of service time. One year of service time is 172 days per the CBA. He did not accrue one year of service time in 2000, as he arrived in July. His first year of service time was 2001. Therefore the 10/5 no trade would kick in April 2011. That means the White Sox would be granting a full no trade for 3 years of this rumored extension.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But again, refering to my original post, Mr. Reinsdorf has overstepped all of them in the past when they were busy tripping over their feet. No not really. That is not exactly the case according to people who work there. It makes for good copy but its not as if JR flies in on a magic carpet and saves the day. Believe me they are talking about all this crap well before it becomes an issue, figuring out contract parameters and planning things out. They function all together with lots of communication and there are several others with ownership interests who help out as well. There is very little feet tripping, they know exactly what and how far they want to go according to their business plan.

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not to burst the very opinionated bubbles around here, but Buehrle's trade value was NOT driven down by this...at all. That's not how business works. Before you say things like this, everyone needs to think it through from a business/we want to win now prespective. His value is sky high for one simple reason...competition. Boston knows that if another team gets Buehrle, it makes them stronger. Other contending teams know this, too. None of these teams want to see Buehrle go to a team they are in direct competition against for the ALCS/ALDS/World Series. If Team A gets close to a deal with Buehrle, don't think for a second KW wouldn't go to the other teams and say, "I'm about to trade him here for X and X...care to counter?" Hell yes they care to counter...even if it's just a rent-a-player, some of these teams would easily sweeten up their deals to keep Buehrle out of the hands of their enemies. And that's why his value is still sky high, whether we are willing to resign him or not... Hey interesting perspective and I know that Jewel at 30th and Halsted. There used to be a huge lumber yard there which was also where the BP Amoco is now. There was a Kroger across the street where that thrift store is, I walk by there all the time. Sorry - Now back to the Buehrle angst!

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> At this point, you are right; ake this team the Chicago Expos. ANy credibility KW had as a negotiator is shot to hell. Mr. Reinsdorf had to save the Konerko signing. I can't think of ONE signing that has done well for KW. Ambulance chasing like Erstad does not count. Yes well he doesn't do much if any of the contract stuff anyways, you knew that, yes? It is Hahn, and then Dennis Gilbert on the really tricky ones and a couple other behind the scenes guys they have managing the money, like Howard Pizer. Reinsdorf if it's a really complex thing.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I really don't care anymore. If this thing is dead lets get on with the trades. Yours is a good point too, whatever happens happens. If they extend him great, if not they will move on.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Gonzalez and Floyd haven't done anything for the Soxyet. Pardon me for not feeling assured that a good month in AAA means Floyd will be effective at the major league level. That trade is still open to criticism given the return Williams got. Jennings brought so much more from Houston than the Sox got from PHI that you have to think KW could have gotten more. Originally, I think they were hoping to drive up his value at the end of last week as well as look like they tried to sign him. But yes, KW and the Sox have managed too devalue Buehrle and poison things to the point that they have to move for a meager return now. Great job by the organization. Yes you are right, any trade is always open for criticism. However if you look deeper there are distinct differences. For one, Astros thought and maybe still think they have a really good chance to extend Jennings, he is a Texas guy, went to Baylor I believe and loves it there. Plus his health, while not perfect, wasn't as dubious as Freddy. Further I don't believe nor do i believe the Phillies think Freddy has a burning desire to extend with Philadelphia. My guess is they were looking at it as a 1 yr. rental. They have gotten basically nil out of Freddy and best scenario for the Phillies is Freddy pitches good in Aug. and Sept. Maybe it is best to see what they get for Buehrle - if he is traded - before saying they have to move him for a meager return?

For anyone interested, check out the Great Falls box, a wild one - http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...81&sid=t581 One guy on Great Falls is Estill, the CF kid they took in this draft and must have signed, check out his line, 0 for 4 and four strikeouts, but he also had 3 walks. Sounds like he might be having a problem with his swing. Or maybe he doesn't swing the bat at all!

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am going to hold out a little hope, as this stuff seems to happen here... Both Scott Skiles and Jose Contreras negotiations were "over" before they resigned. You are right, it's best to wait this out and see if it gets done or what they get in trade. Plenty of time to stage boycotts and jump off bridges later if necessary.

If they end up moving Mark Buehrle my best guess is they will get a legit CF prospect in return, at least as part of a deal. They don't have one, and lots of guys who might be available in trade that can play CF are projected to move to a corner. They continue to draft guys in the 7th 8th round and later who obviously are longshots to pan out but truth is, they need to get this resolved and I do not see them paying big $ for CF's who are well into their 30's. Same scenario at SS. Int'l signing period opens Monday and per BA columnist the White Sox aren't connected with any of the top talent, at least from what this guy has heard.

QUOTE(Jim Spencer @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Man, Charlie Haeger is 3-11 He has not been able to command the knuckler this year, lots of K's but lots of walks too. Not to harp on the ongoing Anderson situation but another 0-4 last night, 2 K's, ave. at .239 .

QUOTE(BFirebird @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah..you are correct on that. Scrub/Sox series the lots definitely open sooner. I thought that maybe you could come early for every series but was unsure...figured I should check before I tell everyone in my group to get there really early. Has anyone tailgated early this year in the Non Scrub/Sox series? http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/cws/ballpa....jsp#Tailgating

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I also buy into Cowley and he indicates there was talks as well. Who could very well be 670's source. Offman was taken off the "insider" baseball beat. He hosts the Hit and Run program and he reads the updates. Gonzalez of the Tribune is a Score source as well as their own guy who hangs around the ballparks, I want to say David Schuester.

A radio station report saying a deal is "basically done" doesn't mean it has to be announced immediately. It could be a few days at least. I'm going to sit back and see what happens before condemning any sources, radio stations, etc. The story hasn't played out yet.

So, where it stands now is no one believes 670 but people are believing the AM 1000 report?

Because Buehrle would pitch against the DRays in this series?

The 3rd round pick, Ely, has signed per the White Sox site.

I've seen nothing about Porcello signing with the Tigers ... ?

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 06:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The best thing that could happen to the Sox today is if KW was fired. Opinion noted.