29thandPoplar

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> For the record, I was saying that your post was bulls***. Which it was -- everyone who's going to seek out this site knows how a game that's tied in the ninth can be won. It's actually pretty basic stuff to most of us. The idea that it's a complex sequence of impossible events is, well, bulls***. I did respond sarcastically to a boast (that you watched the game -- my!). I'm sorry you took this so hard, but honestly, I never really doubted that your remote was functioning properly. Then this, which said nothing of substance (bravo!), but oddly implied that I must be too stupid to compose sentences. (In my experience, this works better if the accuser can actually, say, write better sentences. Maybe you have found otherwise; who am I to say?) Which is fine. Look, you're not the first pedantic nitwit this site has seen. I wish you as much luck as the rest. I invite you to continue your deep investigation into the deep complexities of how baseball games tied in the ninth can be won and rest on your laurels as an accomplished Watcher Of TV. By the way, once you've completed your study, I suggest you investigate the irreducible complexities of how a batter can reach second. There are so many possibilities that it'll BLOW YOUR f***ING MIND. When you've figured it out, let me know. I'll be watching the game by listening to the call through a tin can phone and drawing the action in the dirt outside my hut. Wow, big words and everything. Your mommy must be very proud. Looks like I've figured you out, I suspect the rest of the world has too. You left the hut too soon, it's better to evolve first.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Weren't you the one who said Jenks hadn't pitched in 9 days? Well, his last save appearance was then, but he had the 9th inning against Tampa on Friday. How come I have the feeling that if he had pitched 3 times in the last 6 games, you'd be praising Ozzie for not overusing him. I'll be happy to listen to anything you want me to stop staying, as long as it's an actual fact. Well at least you're off the capital letters you must have calmed down and thats good. Yes in fact I will ask you to stop ranting about practically everythng being Guillens fault. He makes mistakes but it is painfully obvious that because you dont like the mgr practically everything falls on him. Also you can please stop saying F--- this team and F--- Guillen and F--- Williams, you're embarassing yourself. Do you ever go back and read your comments in the game threads as it is one whine after the next. Believe me I have already learned in a short time the game threads are not a good place to talk much baseball, it is a lame sarcasm pit and last nite it was pile on Erstad nite and thank you for the administrator intervention. And you are the leader of the band, not on the Erstad nonsense but if a message board is a place for you to vent your spleen on a daily basis please for your mental health stop. Also please stop saying I would praise Guillen for overusing Jenks because you dont know. Jenks is a closer, that is not to say he will never or never should be used in a nonsave situation but he has had trouble with those situations. Im sure now you will throw out stats to show me he hasn't but surely you realize with 30k posts that baseball is more than numbers. Also it appears it is necessary for you to try and divide posters into two camps, one if they don't fall in lock step with your daily over-the-top criticisms of the mgr then they are not in your pessimist camp and if they do its "we". If you could please stop doing that itd be great. Also will you please begin to realize the mgr will put guys on the field in certain situations to test them. I realize every loss is important due to Cleve. and Det. but the mgr will give guys opportunities and he will test guys. So far many are failing the test but can you please realize he will do it again and understand the viewpoint that the org. is seeing what these guys are made of and can they grow into roles. Yes the bullpen sucks but it is young and to borrow your phrase arent you the one who said you want a mgr with more patience for young players. Were you one of the Sox fans who complained last year about using Jenks in nonsave sitautions, if you weren't I certainly apologize but since you snipe about everything else it is somewhat logical to make that conclusion. Again if not then my bad. Believe me I am not blind to whats wrong with this team as I have watched closely for a while now and some changes need to be made, not much more to say on that. I also realize you are a sr. member of this board and with almost 30k posts it is prob. naive for me to ask you to stop doing things or saying things. However being from Bridgeport we call a spade a spade as the old card players used to say. If you cannot step outside of yourself and see at least some of what Im saying has merit then i certainly understand and I will learn how to use the ignore function.

QUOTE(retro1983hat @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 15 day DL, just an ankle sprain ....per the SCORE. Thats good news and even though he is not a top player in the league he was hustling and playing hard plus making some contributions. Which is more than can be said for a few others. Hopefully he comes back healthy.

Kalapse the one thing I really like about your comments is the use of young and hungry. It appears the Cleveland Indians are just that, and the White Sox are not. I see a guy like Thome being hungry and also believe he is too much a pro to not be. Several of the others I have my doubts.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ May 31, 2007 -> 07:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is absurd. Your argument is that the team isn't doing things right, anyway, we really had only an infinitesimal chance of winning. Hell, we haven't been doing things right for weeks -- why even show up? Lord, it's only the 'negative' posters that believe this Sox team might possibly score more in one inning than the mighty bottom-of-the-order Twins. An interesting twist. But, then, you "watched it." Now there you have us all beat. I am duly amazed by your ability to sit in front of a television. Hey guy/gal or whatever you are, When you start throwing out terms like "BS" you can expect to get it right back. Do you want to talk baseball or do you want to be a smart guy/gal or whatever you are. Because if it's the latter you have a long way to go. Yes I did watch it and apparantly retained and observed more than you did. My amazement is returned in that you had the ability to type and string together a sentence or two. Now if you want to talk baseball thats great because when I'm here I'm here to do that. Otherwise I think we can agree that the ignore function is an amazing invention and not "BS". QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2007 -> 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> First, this is a poorly coached team. Even if it's the players messing up, the coach needs to take responsiblity. Second, please stop saying Jenks was rusty. HE PITCHED ON FRIDAY!!!!!!!!! Yes, one inning in a week, encompassing 6 games. See I can spin things the way I see fit just as you do. I am sorry if I am bringing out the capital letters retorts from you as I certainly don't mean to do that, it appears I have upset you by raining on the negativity parade. I thought this board was for expressing viewpoints, some of which may differ from those who I guess are on here every day with 30k posts saying mostly the same things. If you tell me to please stop saying something that's fine and I appreciate the courtesy of you at least saying please. In return I will have probably about two dozen things I will please ask you to stop saying, whether in capital letters or small case.

QUOTE(S720 @ May 31, 2007 -> 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just can NOT believe you guys are behaving like this. Sorry but I have to let it out. f*** you guys. You guys have no heart at all. I am definitely through with this site. No wonder many old timers do not post on here anymore. You guys should be ashamed with your behavior. Erstad is playing his heart out for your f***ing team, and all you guys have done are just bashing him day in and day out. Now that he might be seriously injured, you guys are not only enjoying this but have no CLASS at all. You guys are f***ing CLASSLESS. Some of the Cubs fans are behaving much better than you are. You guys are a bunch of whiners. If you guys are that good, why don't you go and play some professional balls. Because you CAN'T! I am done with this site. Admin, take me off your database. I feel embarassed being associated with these heartless kids!!! Wow. My goodness I did not know these game threads were this bad but after some of the comments made here tonite and the administrator having to delete them I can see what this guy is saying. Maybe I am a little too old for this site and certainly the game threads.

I for one appreciated a Sox announcer making a call or going down to the clubhouse to find out about an injury and informing the audience. And anyone who is acquainted with White Sox personnel at any level knows this is not the first time Harrelson has done this. Hopefully Erstad's injury is not serious as he worked his rear end off trying to come back.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 31, 2007 -> 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well that's true. Jenks only threw a scoreless inning in a non save spot to get us a win his last outing, and pitched a scorless 9th in his 3rd most recent outing, also a non save spot, just as it was on opening day when he threw a scoreless inning. If your going to make an argument, at least have good facts. If "your" going to have comebacks at least be aware he has had lots of problems in those non save situations and also it is very possible that he could have been rusty. But then again maybe "your" not aware of those subtleties. There is a game on tonite, yesterday is gone, there will be something for you to find wrong with Ozzie in this game, I'm sure of it. I see that all of the Ozzie haters like yourself apparantly have issues with people who have an opposing viewpoint and can back it up. I agree with WCSox that he does make mistakes but I also feel some of the criticism of his moves are knee jerk reactions by people who either don't have all the info, haven't considered all the possibilities, or maybe just maybe don't know the game all that well.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ May 31, 2007 -> 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bs. You just break it down into enough steps to make it sound "complex". The Sox needed to get one out, then have a better inning before the Twins did. Certainly not "complex", and if that's really only remotely possible, then this team is truly hopeless. BS right back at ya. It's four things that had to go right. How many went right for the White Sox yesterday. Not many, especially after the 3rd inning. Maybe you just can't understand how "complex" their inability to do things right were during that game. I watched it.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2007 -> 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And for the argument that he wouldn't be available tonight: I think avoiding the sweep against your main AL Central rival is more important than a possible save opportunity in the first game of a 4 game series against Toronto. Yeah well you avoid the sweep if: - he gets Hunter out in a nonsave situation where he typically performs poorly, AND - the White Sox get a hit against MN relief pitching which they hadn't in the previous 6 ings. AND - that hit(s) turned into a run AND - whatever pitcher (Jenks or otherwise) needing to hold the Twins down in the next inning does his job. That would be 4 things that needed to go right for the White Sox in a game when after the 3rd inning they couldn't do anything right. Saying avoid the sweep is a little more complex than you make it sound, just saying.

Well of course this is easy to say but I hope they focus heavily on guys with speed who can get on base and play good defense. Draft several guys who can hit leadoff and hope 1-2 develop. Look at the shortage of those guys around baseball, they are gold. Oh and a SS or two. Duane loves to take college pitching but maybe shift the focus.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2007 -> 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm shocked at this comment. Anyways, go back and read the game thread. This wasn't a case of second guessing by anyone. Also, for as long as Jenks has been with this team, I've been saying that I'd rather lose with him on the mound than anyone else. At least he makes the other team earn it. He has a history of not walking hitters in big situations and doesn't allow homers. For the usuals who keep sticking up for Ozzie at every turn, what's it going to take for you to start to question if he's the right man for this organization and where they want to go? Not to belabor this because all the points have been made but a close save situation is a big situation. Especially with a team that is basically .500 and expected to do lots better, and Jenks has struggled with putting the first couple of guys on with walks in close save situations. Heck the whole staff has had control problems top to bottom with maybe an exception or two. He has walked guys too and I think I looked up yesterday Jenks and Aardsma both walk about one guy every other inning, with Aardsma maybe having a slightly worse ratio or whatever its called. Not to mention whatever mind block prob. BJ has with coming in for nonsave situations. If the staff wants Bobby to get better in nonsave situations then why wouldn't it apply to put him in a nonsave situation that is less pressured. Wouldn't it work both ways, i.e. the example you gave about wanting the mgr to put Mike MacD and Aardsma in less pressure situations. Heck not many in that bullpen is throwing that well, there are 2 maybe 3 at the moment. For the short time I have been here and again this is a really nice site I do not see that many people blindly sticking up for Guillen, but what I do see are posters like rockraines and a few others who fire back at some posters who tend to blame the mgr for everything. To me those Sox fan posters are asking for the blame to be spread more evenly and specifically more on the players since they are the ones screwing up. What I am seeing is a lot of posters here hate Guillen and it is a snowball going downhill as others jump on board with the people who post the most and every time the White Sox lose it is due in small part or mostly large part to some mess up, in their minds, by Guillen. And then they point their fingers and say see I told you our manager is a thisandthat or a soandso. If a player is on the 25 man they will get opportunities. And get used to it, every single mgr in baseball will put guys in sitautions and the fans will say why did he do that. If the player performs good then its ok great, he built this guys confidence. If he messes up, reread the above paragraph, he is a thisandthat or soandso. If anything, to me his biggest mistake has been relying on guys not 100% (Cintron, Mackowiak as they are both hurt) and not benching some of the hitters who give the team bad atbats, he may be too loyal. As for the bullpen they are young and most bullpens even if they are not young are up and down. If these guys are afraid to throw strke 1 and challenge guys then they dont have the stones. Get them out. Lets not forget the mgr went to the GM last winter and said please rebuild my bullpen and get me better guys. So these are the guys he has. And now he says to the GM please get me somebody from our minor leagues because Sisco is bad and he gets Dewon Day and DD is torched. As for hitters he, the mgr, has had this same group pretty much, for 3 yrs 05 06 and now. With an exception here and there. Maybe its time for some better hitters, give the mgrs guys who can get on base as it appears thats what he wants, he has asked time and time again for better ABs. Does anybody really think Uribe or some of these guys will blink the light on and start giving better ab's, no, they are what they are. They need better players is what they need. Easy to say but not that easy to do in the trade market, at least on May 31.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 31, 2007 -> 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ahh posts like these make me think people will still love Ozzie even when he does leave scorched earth. To defend his 9th inning work yesterday is asinine. Is it his fault we blew a 5 run lead, or that our 9th inning defense sucked? Of course not, but that is never ANY managers fault. All a manger can do is use common sense strategy to put his team in the best spot to win, and Ozzie doesn't do that, and certainly didn't yesterday by not using our only good right handed RP in the 9th inning when Jenks hasn't been used hardly at all lately. The majority of this teams problem is lack of talent, which is why KW and Wilder are on a much hotter seat than Guillen this year, but that doesn't make Ozzie's managing nonsense any more acceptable. Ahh posts like yours make me realize how many people just don't know the game that well and lots of them post on message boards. Here are the words you use: asinine, common sense, managing nonsense, acceptable. Do they teach you in Dekalb that all those words are subjective? Open to interpretation? Opinion based? It has nothing to do with loving Ozzie. Did I say that, did you read that? No. All I said was it was defended yesterday, at length. Doesn't mean that defense was 100% right, or 100% wrong. It was defended, you said it couldn't be defended. I told you that was incorrect. It's really simple, don't read into things that werent said. Now you may go back to your regularly scheduled looking for things to bash Guillen about.

QUOTE(Steff @ May 31, 2007 -> 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have been warned, and I am keeping my mouth shut. Absolutely there are changes coming. I respect though that if you somehow know something and can't say. But there is no question that mgmt staff will sit there and take it for much longer, they just won't.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 31, 2007 -> 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with all of that, but Ozzie putting Aardsma in instead of Jenks yesterday, simply can't be defended. No, in your mind it was wrong, that doesn't mean it can't be defended. It was defended at length yesterday. If you disagree that's fine, but saying it can't be defended is incorrect.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ozzie is trying to jump start the team. He is fiery person and very macho and as a result talks the talk. Yes I believe you've nailed it.

QUOTE(Steff @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've heard the sound bites several times this morning and, IMO, he's not even close to having a towel in his hand much less throwing it anywhere. He's pissed at the play on the field and stated several times he is not going to put up with it. The comment about him being fired was, IMO, not a request but a (sic) "...if I'm not doing the job and there is someone better then bring them in...." Yes. spot on correct.

QUOTE(GOD @ May 30, 2007 -> 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> okay it's time to stop complaining and worrying and turn this thing around. We are only 4 games out of the playoffs and there is still plenty of time. i predict this thread will inspire the players and we will win at least the next 10, and I don't even no who were playing. You know what it doesn't matter cuz we're gonna win. There it is, God has spoken.

I'm copying this post about getting some answers and info about scouting and drafting from yesterdays game thread because the game threads fall off so here it is. First 3 paragraphs are flash tizzle and my response is after - It doesn't do much posting on a message board, but I believe you're underestimating the people who browse Soxtalk. If the issue is continually brought up, as it has been recently, more and more fans and other guests are exposed to our thoughts. Perhaps they'll wonder whether we're right and research it themselves. I'll admit "pressure" in this instance doesn't mean much. But it just seems our failures in developing talent has continually been overlooked. Well, now -- in this division, with these teams -- our future depends upon it. Other teams within the division just have more talented players both on their current rosters, and within their systems. My suggestion? Bring up the issue at Soxfest. Or when writing to Mark Gonzalez, among other writers. Perhaps when calling into Chris Ronge's post game show. Our future depends upon the production from within the system, and judging from the reaction of the media, you wouldn't hardly know. Fair enough. You never can tell what gets picked up and who reads what. The issue does get raised at the Fest in fact that's when Williams made his quote you have in your posts. In fact it gets raised a lot at Sox Fest and has for a few years. In my opinion the post game radio show is for goofs calling in and a bad call screener. An interview with the guys who do the drafting and beat the bushes seems the best for getting info out to lots of interested people. Knowing how personable some of those people are in Tucson at spring training, hey they would do it Im sure, maybe put the pressure on the good people who run this very nice site you have here. I notice you are the main guy beating the drum on this and that is great, so why don't you drop a line to those in charge of such matters at 35th and Shields and set something up or use your pull here to get one of the owners to do it? Oh and also maybe one of the chief instructional guys can tell us about things too, there is a guy on here who rips on Greg Walker every day maybe he can get an interview with those in charge to tell all us nonbaseball insiders exactly what a hitting coach does, what does a baserunning coach do etc. on a daily basis. It would be educational. Maybe it would be better to hear it directly instead of saying the same thing on a messaage board every day, not meant to yank anybodys chain here but it would be educational to hear what they have to say.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It doesn't do much posting on a message board, but I believe you're underestimating the people who browse Soxtalk. If the issue is continually brought up, as it has been recently, more and more fans and other guests are exposed to our thoughts. Perhaps they'll wonder whether we're right and research it themselves. I'll admit "pressure" in this instance doesn't mean much. But it just seems our failures in developing talent has continually been overlooked. Well, now -- in this division, with these teams -- our future depends upon it. Other teams within the division just have more talented players both on their current rosters, and within their systems. My suggestion? Bring up the issue at Soxfest. Or when writing to Mark Gonzalez, among other writers. Perhaps when calling into Chris Ronge's post game show. Our future depends upon the production from within the system, and judging from the reaction of the media, you wouldn't hardly know. Fair enough. You never can tell what gets picked up and who reads what. The issue does get raised at the Fest in fact that's when Williams made his quote you have in your posts. In fact it gets raised a lot at Sox Fest and has for a few years. In my opinion the post game radio show is for goofs calling in and a bad call screener. An interview with the guys who do the drafting and beat the bushes seems the best for getting info out to lots of interested people. Knowing how personable some of those people are in Tucson at spring training, hey they would do it Im sure, maybe put the pressure on the good people who run this very nice site you have here. I notice you are the main guy beating the drum on this and that is great, so why don't you drop a line to those in charge of such matters at 35th and Shields and set something up or use your pull here to get one of the owners to do it? Oh and also maybe one of the chief instructional guys can tell us about things too, there is a guy on here who rips on Greg Walker every day maybe he can get an interview with those in charge to tell all us nonbaseball insiders exactly what a hitting coach does, what does a baserunning coach do etc. on a daily basis. It would be educational. Maybe it would be better to hear it directly instead of saying the same thing on a messaage board every day, not meant to yank anybodys chain here but it would be educational to hear what they have to say.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In the AL Central catch everything thread, benchwarmerJim posted an extended article in which Guillen further discussed his frustrations. In particular, the quote about blaming different divisions of the team cited Kenny Williams. Whatever publication you used conveniently left that out. I honestly don't care how much he calls out the team if he refrains from citing individuals on the team. It was "embarrassing" (as he said in the other article), and many people need to held accountable. No sugercoating needed. Here was the quote where he referenced Williams: "If we have to shake up this ballclub, we will -- at least [general manager] Kenny [Williams] will," Guillen added. "Everybody that's part of this organization, I don't think they should be happy about what happened right now. Not because we got swept by this ballclub. It's because of the way we've played all year long."

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ May 30, 2007 -> 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of course it will. Which is why the pressure should be increased from fans everywhere. Expect more in trades; more from the minor league system. This upcoming draft, expect more from their scouts. It doesn't even matter if it's unrealistic. Their needs to be some level of expectations on a group of people who haven't done much to secure the team's future. Danks/Masset, Floyd and Gonzalez isn't enough. Ok, fair enough, what do you suggest, I mean what should fans do? Picket? Start a letter writing campaign? Not trying to be the wiseacre but posting it on a message board doesn't do much of anything. Don't some people who own this site have conncetions as it looks like some interviews are done with prospects? What about a q/a with some of these scouts or development guys. Maybe then questions can be answered and philosophies and such.

Some of Guillen's remarks post game: "They compete as a team. They get you as a team, and that's why they win," said Guillen, who alternated between blaming himself and criticizing his players throughout his postgame remarks. Guillen has long been impressed by the Twins, who sped by the slumping White Sox last summer on the way to their fourth division title in the last five years. But he pinned most of the afternoon's performance on the visiting team. "Offense, defense, pitching, manager, coaches, we all stink," Guillen said. In addition, Aardsma described his brief outing as "pathetic". No argument there.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ May 30, 2007 -> 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Craig Wilson 1-8, 5 K's in his first two games in Charlotte. Not looking good. They are looking to see if he can play the OF as well as get his swing back. He is in RF tonight. Two walks in three plate appearances so far. Don't ask what the Charlotte pitchers are doing, it is bad. Wilson will probably get 30 days to see what he can do although if he wants to stay there in Charlotte it's not as if he's blocking anybody. Meanwhile Owens continues to do well which I'm sure will be mentioned on the minor league board.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Aardsma isn't exactly this young pitcher straight out of the minors. He's not the type of player that we were referencing that Ozzie doesn't prefer. Well i can't speak for "we" as you can, I can only speak for me, and I was commenting on Aardsma having less experience than Jenks, seeing as you stated you (we?) want a mgr. who is more patient with young players and the particular mgr. was getting skewered for not going with a more experienced guy in a key situation this aft. For the record I would say Masset and Aardsma and Logan and Dewon Day fall into the inexperienced category in the Sox pen. I would have said Sisco too but mercifully he is doing his I can't throw strikes act in Charlotte. It may not be the worst idea to send Aardsma there for a week or two but maybe they don't want to burn an option year and prefer to let him work his problems out here. He among others though clearly have a problem throwing strike 1 right now.