ChiliIrishHammock24

I became so much more calm about the Cubs winning once Chapman blew the game and I knew he couldn't get the save. Once Edwards came in, I knew that woman-beating f*** face couldn't be hailed as a hero and I was totally content. Now their lovable loser narrative is finally over and they can just be another team like the Red Sox have become.

Uh oh, Cubs inevitably won, time to put half of the people in this thread on suicide watch.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 08:51 PM) Dumping 3 young pitchers when bad pitchers like Shields and Petricka are on the staff is the kind of move that put the Sox in this mess. My comment is that it makes no sense to trade all of those young players for 2 years of Pollock. Build. Develop. Appropriately scout and evaluate. Use analytics (With all of those gaudy degrees, surely Hahn knows what those are). Take advantage of opportunities. Make clever deals. You can't force it for one player people drool over because he was good 2 years ago. Many teams can add 3 veterans and, on paper it looks like they could contend. it doesn't work. Teams need youth and depth, particularly in pitching. The Sox have none, although the really young pitching is looking good. Stockpile it, don't trade it. So your gripe appears to be with going for it not, not potentially adding 7 more WAR at a single position through an all-star with a great bat and an awesome glove in CF. Although I don't see how keeping those young pitchers somehow gets Shields or Petricka off of this team.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 06:35 PM) Need to put a product on the field in the majors. Gomez on a 1 year prove it deal and trade at the deadline, possibly the same with Castro just a longer commitment. Castro is fine because we really don't have any youngsters to give a chance, but I would rather give Tilson and Engle a shot in CF over signing Gomez in a rebuild. But yes, any veterans they sign should.be trade bait in July, so I agree there.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 05:05 PM) What? throw away 3 young pitchers. Who needs them when the Sox have James Shields and Petricka coming back! More of the same. If it fails year after year, keep doing it. Did you just compare AJ Pollock to James Shields and then randomly included Petricka's name in there? I don't understand your comment at all.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 12:35 PM) He tends to offer all these great trades for me through text, and then when it actually comes to offering it officially, he either doesn't, or he changes it. So it's no longer on the table. So I added Bills D to the trade. Or, he did mention Melvin Gordon, so maybe Gordon for Evans would work for him too, but Melvin Gordon has been such a TD stud (3rd best RB in fantasy) that it worries me a bit. Probably still do it though considering my depth at RB. Now he says my team doesn't excite him and he doesn't need anyone from my team....even though he initally starting making offers. At this point I think he just does this to f*** with me and waste my time.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 02:15 PM) I'm all for a full rebuild and my plan will be based off that. Arbitration-eligible (with projected salaries from MLBTR): Write "tender" or "non-tender" after each of the following names. Two notes: 1) You can trade before or after tendering a contract, and 2) we’ll just assume Jose Abreu is in the fold for roughly $11 million regardless of whether he chooses the arb route. Todd Frazier, $13.5M - Tender Brett Lawrie, $5.1M - Tender Avisail Garcia, $3.5M - Non-Tender Miguel Gonzalez, $2.6M - Tender Dan Jennings, $1.2M - Tender J.B. Shuck, $1M - Non-Tender Jake Petricka, $900K - Tender Zach Putnam, $900K - Tender Daniel Webb, $600K - Tender Contract options (pick up or buy out) Matt Albers: $3M for 2017 or a $250,000 buyout - Buyout Impending free agents (re-sign, let go or qualifying offer) Austin Jackson: - Let go Alex Avila: - Let go Justin Morneau: - Let go Free Agent Signings: C Jason Castro 2 years/13 million CF Carlos Gomez 1 year/8 million RP Boone Logan 2 years/11 million SP Ivan Nova 1 year/5 million DH Luis Valubeuna 1 year/4 million SP Tommy Milone minor league deal Trades SP Chris Sale to the Red Sox for OF Andrew Benintendi, 3B Rafael Devers, SP Michael Kopech, SP Jason Groome, and C Blake Swihart SP Jose Quintana to the Dodgers for SP Julio Urias, OF Alex Verdugo, and SS Gavin Lux LF Melky Cabrera to the Giants for SP Tyler Beede CP David Robertson to the Rangers for 1B Ronald Guzman 2B Brett Lawrie to the Pirates for 2B/SS Alen Hanson Lineup: RF Adam Eaton (L) SS Tim Anderson 1B Jose Abreu DH Luis Valbuena (L) 3B Todd Frazier LF Andrew Benintendi (L) CF Carlos Gomez C Jason Castro (L) 2B Tyler Saladino Bench: C Omar Narvaez (L) OF Charlie Tilson (L) 2B Carlos Sanchez (S) ??? Pitching Staff: SP Carlos Rodon (L) SP Miguel Gonzalez SP Julio Urias (L) SP James Shields SP Ivan Nova RP Anthony Raunado RP Jake Petricka RP Zach Putnam RP Dan Jennings (L) RP Boone Logan (L) RP Zack Burdi RP Nate Jones Thoughts? While I would totally take both of those offers for Sale and Q, I'm confused why you even bother signing Castro and Gomez. Also, I think Castro will be much more expensive than that contract.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 09:01 AM) Why haven't you clicked accept yet? Hurry up before he rescinds. He tends to offer all these great trades for me through text, and then when it actually comes to offering it officially, he either doesn't, or he changes it. So it's no longer on the table. So I added Bills D to the trade. Or, he did mention Melvin Gordon, so maybe Gordon for Evans would work for him too, but Melvin Gordon has been such a TD stud (3rd best RB in fantasy) that it worries me a bit. Probably still do it though considering my depth at RB.

This may sound weird, but does anyone else think that if the Indians were going to lose this game, this is the best way they could have lost? Cubs had to use a few relievers, including Chapman tonight, but because it was a blowout, the Indians didn't use Miller, Shaw, OR Allen. All of those guys could go 2 innings tomorrow if need be. Chapman, while he will still be available, may not be able to go multiple innings again after throwing 62 pitches over the past 3 days. Obviously you don't like the fact that the Cubs got confidence and that their hitters are clicking, but the bullpen situation is shaping up nicely for Cleveland assuming they can get 4 or 5 innings out of Kluber tomorrow and scrape a couple off of Hendricks.

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 11:47 PM) I agree with your idea to build around the starting pitching. Watching the playoffs, I'm convinced that they are not that far away from a playoff appearance. They just need to add guys who can get on base consistently. It seems like 10 years of all or nothing teams. On the current roster of everyday players, I'd hold on to Anderson, Frazier, and probably Eaton and listen to offers for everyone else. Build the minor league talent pool with smaller trades for teams' 5-10 ranked prospects at the trade deadline if the season isn't going well. The important thing is to be aggressive at that time and dump guys like Jones and Robertson and Cabrera that teams want for their playoff push. The Duke to STL trade is a good example. They took a flyer on a mid level prospect. We'll have to see how it turns out. Sale for a team's top 4 or 5 prospects sounds great if they turn into Arizona, Baez, Contreras, etc, but that's no guarantee. I'd rather acquire talent and do a better job of developing it. Put together a giant plan like this and let's see what you can build!

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 09:52 PM) Holy Tyler Motte! That kick-to-stick was nasty. He even had to kick his front foot up so the puck could clear it.

QUOTE (Donaldo @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 08:39 PM) Lechich got the win, and Collins went 2-3 with a HR (Avg. up to .267). http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gi...ox&sid=l119 Small Sample Size pushes his OPS up to .917 after that game. lol. All the sudden he is 3rd in the AFL with a .450 OBP.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 11:11 PM) Mets are a team off the top of my head if they don't sign Walker. He can plug in at second or third actually depending on Wright's health. Ok, so tender and then flip him for a AA prospect.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 10:38 PM) I don't think there's any chance the Sox NOn-Tender Lawrie. It's $5 million. That's nothing. Flowers was $3.5M. And I agree, Lawrie could easily be tendered and traded for a prospect from someone, I just didn't want to take the time to locate who would need someone like Lawrie and randomly select a prospect from their system when I wouldn't affect my projection for 2017 anyway.

Holy s***, how many times are we going to discuss the fallout of the Cubs winning the World Series? Some of you guys are so damn insecure.

Someone in my league has McCoy, Anderson, Ware, and McKinnon. All of them injured. He said he would give me Mike Evans for Crowell if Ware's I jury is serious enough. I'm thinking that's a steal for me considering Crowell is my 3rd or 4th best RB after Elliot, Gordon, Murray, Montgomery, and Bernard.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 04:47 PM) Seems like Wilson Ramos would be hesitant to go to a new team when he needs to reestablish value next year. I would think that he'd want to go back to where he's most comfortable. Certainly possible, and I'm not opposed to going the defensive route and adding Castro as Plan B, I just wanted some more offense added.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) I can't ever recall a team non-tendering 4 players in the same off season, nor non-tending a player barely over minimum wage. Ok, so tender Daniel Webb and sent him to AAA or release him. It doesn't change anything for this plan.

Credit for this idea and structure goes to SouthSideSox. If you fill one of these out, please be thorough. You don't have to provide full payroll figures, but if you are planning to add $50M to the payroll for 2017, you'll need to be able to shed some from trades to make it realistic. USA Today showed the 2016 White Sox at $112M. I would say try to add no more than $20-$25M at the most, which is still quite the jump. I should note that I am totally all for a rebuild, but making a rebuild plan isn't as exciting as the payoff for it is years away. I made this because it was more fun to be competitive now. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arbitration-eligible (with projected salaries from MLBTR): Write "tender" or "non-tender" after each of the following names. Two notes: 1) You can trade before or after tendering a contract, and 2) we’ll just assume Jose Abreu is in the fold for roughly $11 million regardless of whether he chooses the arb route. Todd Frazier, $13.5M - TENDER Brett Lawrie, $5.1M - Non-Tender Avisail Garcia, $3.5M - Non-Tender Miguel Gonzalez, $2.6M - TENDER Dan Jennings, $1.2M - TENDER J.B. Shuck, $1M - Non-Tender Jake Petricka, $900K - TENDER Zach Putnam, $900K - TENDER Daniel Webb, $600K - Non-Tender I really struggled with the idea of tender Lawrie or not. Thought maybe I could use the $5M elsewhere, and although I initially decided to tender him, I put together a trade below that changed my mind. Shuck, Avi, and Webb can all go fly a kite. I think that's an expression. I don't get why it's one, but I'm invoking it here and there is nothing you can do about it. Contract options (pick up or buy out) Matt Albers: $3M for 2017 or a $250,000 buyout - BUYOUT And I'm buying it out "like a f**king cat" Impending free agents (re-sign, let go or qualifying offer) Austin Jackson: - BYE FELICIA Alex Avila: - Resign to 1 yr/$3M deal Justin Morneau: - Would love to keep him, but he will want a team like the Red Sox. Elaborate if needed: Free agents: 2B Neil Walker - 3 years/$48M ($14M, $16M, $18M) Walker is a pleasantly consistent. Over the past 6 seasons, he's never been below a 2.4 WAR. Last year he was 3.7 and was 3.6 in 2014. He's a 20+ HR bat, he walks a bit, doesn't strike out much, is a switch hitter, and seems to grade out as an average fielder at 2B. There is question as to whether or not he will be offered a QO or not, and even though I really hope he isn't, with a market so thin, I feel like he will be. So losing a 1st RD pick really sucks, but we are going All-In, remember?!?!? So...Wheeeee! I think Walker will be a 3-WAR player in 2017. C Wilson Ramos - 1 year/$12M I realize this seems a bit weird. Hear me out. So Ramos just had knee surgery in mid-October. His recovery time is 6-8 months. So including a rehab stint, you are talking something like mid-May to late-June until he is back in action. For this reason, I don't think the Nationals extend him a Qualifying Offer of $17.6M, because, by all rights, he would be insane to reject that given his injury. And I don't see him signing a multi-year deal because he will want to prove his health, not sign a 3 or 4-year deal at a discounted rate. Avila and Narvaez hold it down until he returns, then they fight to the death for the backup role, assuming Avila is still alive in the first place. I give him a 1.5 WAR catcher in the 80 games he should give us thanks to his good power, good contact skills, and above-average defense (average pitch framer, but far better than Navarro). 1B/OF Steve Pearce - 1 year/$6M Hey, look, a theme! Another late-season injured player! Pearce had forearm surgery in September, but should be back by January or February. He is a lefty-killer and is a 20-25 HR bat in a full year. It was only 2 years ago that he was a 4.9 fWAR player with Baltimore in only 102 games. He mashes taters, and he takes walks, he doesn't strike out much, and 2 of the last 3 seasons he has hit .288+. He's a good DH option for this team, but his injury and age will keep his price low. I think he's a 2.5 WAR player in a full year. RHP Greg Holland - 1 year/$4M, team option $7M for 2018, $2M buyout You had to see this coming by now. Dude was injured in 2016, he gets a spot on this team. Guy was a monster for a few years and has a massive fastball. Gets essentially $6M guaranteed with the Sox having an option of $7M in a second season if he proves healthy and valuable. Pairing him with Nate Jones would give us two nasty fireballing righties at the back of the pen. Oh yeah, and Zack Burdi is on his way. Yikes. LHP Boone Logan - 2 years/$9M With Jones and Holland in the pen, the Sox need to pair something with Jennings to get out lefties, and our old friend Boone is death on lefties. In 2016, lefties batted .139 with a .215 wOBA. Pair that with an 11.49 K/9, 2.59 BB/9, 0.29 HR/9, and a 2.06 FIP and you got yourself a lefty that's hotter'than'a goat's butt in a pepper patch! (Boone sounds southern AF, so I naturally assume redneck lingo) Trades: P Carson Fulmer, P Spencer Adams, OF Jameson Fisher, P Jordan Stephens, 1B Corey Zangari to the Arizona Diamondbacks for CF A.J. Pollock With Mike Hazen taking over for the Dbacks after their horribly failed attempt to "go All-in" in 2016, I feel like Hazen will want to just go young and load up on talent. I have a feeling everyone outside of Goldschmidt may be available, and Pollock isn't actually young anymore. He will be 29 in December, and if the Dbacks do decide the rebuild, he will reach free agency before that plan is finished. Pollock will make $6.75M in 2017 and then will be arb-eligible in 2018 before becoming a FA in 2019. In 2015 he was a 6.5 WAR player and fills a huge void this team has in CF, where Pollock is tremendous (14 DRS in 2015, 3 DRS in only 14 games in 2016). He's a .300+ hitter with 20 HR pop and gold-glove defense in CF, while even swiping 39 bags in his last healthy year. The rub is that he missed almost all of 2016 with a fractured elbow. But if he's healthy in 2016, he's an all-star CF easily. Let's give him a 4.5 WAR, and that would be a pretty large regression honestly. The cost to acquire him will be steep, which is why I have included 2 of our top pitching prospects, a quality looking newly drafted OF prospect, a breakout pitcher in Stephens, and a wildcard Zangari. Hopefully the revelation of Alec Hansen has made this an easier pill to swallow. The Dbacks have always coveted pitching, and even with a new GM, I choose to believe they still will. Fulmer and Adams probably become their top 2 pitching prospects, assuming Shipley has fully graduated to the majors. Jameson Fisher gives them a highly intriguing toolsy OF and Stephens is another intriguing arm that is trending up. The Dbacks and Sox have made a lot of trades over the years and I think Hazen will look to put his own stamp on the new club, that is, if LaRussa lets him. CL David Robertson and $4M to the San Francisco Giants for 2B Kelby Tomlinson and P Ray Black The Giants need relievers badly. Robertson wasn't great, but he was certainly better than anything the Giants have and unless they are willing to hand a huge contract to either Jansen or Chapman, they will have to get a closer via trade. Robertson has 2 years left on his deal at $12.5M AAV, Giants pay $21M remaining on that. Kelby Tomlinson intrigues me. He's only played 106 games over the past 2 years with the Giants, but has been worth 1.9 WAR, batting .299 with a .362 OBP. He only struck out 15% of the time last season and scouts say he's a plus runner with a very accurate arm at 2B, is athletic enough to play the position, and has good instincts with quick hands on defense. I like him a lot as a backup 2B. Ray Black is an absolute flamethrowing minor league reliever with no idea for the strikezone. He has a career minor league K/9 of....wait for it....18! But his walk-rate was merely REDUCED to about 9 last season. Yikes. But he's one of those arms that just needs to be harnessed and maybe the velocity dialed down a bit. Sox have a history with those arms. Totally worth a flier. Oh, I should mention Black has hit 104 MPH in the minors....uh...yeah. Summary I feel like these moves keep our pitching in tact, improve our bullpen, greatly improve our offense, and improve our outfield defense tremendously. Obviously a lot of those FA are injury risks, but I feel like rolling the dice on 1 year deals is fine because if they don't work out, the only player to be "stuck" with would be Walker, who should be easily moveable due to his consistency. Would have liked to move James Shields, but I don't see any takers. Quick math says I add $32.5M in new player money. But I cut out about $21M from Robertson/Lawrie/Avi/Schuch/Webb. Plus the money saved from Jackson and Navarro and Danks being gone. Then you add in arb players. I would have to added less than $20M to 2017's payroll I would think. Below I will show the planned 25 man roster, with their 2016 vs the 2016 WAR they are replacing. Players who were not in full time roles will get WAR extrapolated to 600 PA (or 30 GS), which I realize is far from exact. I would really like to get a new WAR estimate once 2017 projections are out on Fangraphs. Bullpens get a ton of contribution from a ton of arms, so I will just put a total WAR for the new bullpen vs the complete collection of 2016's bullpen. ROTATION: +0.5 WAR L Chris Sale (5.2) L Jose Quintana (4.8) R Miguel Gonzalez (3.5 vs 2.7) +0.8 WAR L Carlos Rodon (2.9 vs 2.7) +0.2 WAR R James Shields (-1.9 vs -1.4) -0.5 WAR BULLPEN: +1.7 WAR CL Nate Jones (1.8) SU Greg Holland (0.8) L Boone Logan (0.8) L Dan Jennings (0.9) R Zack Putnam (0.4) R Zack Burdi (0.5?) R Jake Petricka (-0.1) LINEUP: +16.8 WAR RF Adam Eaton (L) (6.0) CF A.J. Pollock ® (5.2 vs -2.4 via Jackson/Shuch) +7.6 WAR LF Melky Cabrera (S) (1.6) 1B Jose Abreu ® (1.6) 3B Todd Frazier ® (2.4) 2B Neil Walker (S) (3.7 vs 1.2 via Lawrie/Sanchez/1/2 of Saladino) + 2.5 WAR C Wilson Ramos ® (3.0 for half of 2016's plus Avila/Narvaez 2016 vs 1.1 via Avila/Narvaez/Navarro) +1.9 WAR DH Steven Pearce ® (4.0 vs 0.1 via Garcia/Morneau/Sands) +3.9 WAR SS Tim Anderson ® (2.4 vs 3.3) +0.9 WAR BENCH: Wasn't sure how to quantify bench players value, so I didn't even bother giving them WAR estimates. IF Tyler Saladino ® IF Kolby Tomlinson ® OF Charlie Tilson (L) C Alex Avila (L) TOTAL: So that group listed above turns out a whopping 19 WAR improvement over 2016. Even if you revert all the pitching back to 2016 numbers, like projecting Miguel Gonzalez for only 23 starts instead or 30, and even if you dial back all the hitters to 500 PA to account for some injuries, and you assume the bullpen doesn't improve at all, that's STILL a 11.3 WAR improvement from this team. And that 11.3 WAR is assuming James Shields CONTINUES to be one of the worst pitchers in baseball, except over a full 30 games. You can see it in just the massive difference than adding an all-star CF can do for this team to go along with REAL DH like Pearce who can hit .280+ with a great OBP and low strikeouts, and a bonafide 2B. And even a half of season of Ramos, and that's 4 major upgrades that really change a ton for this team at our 4 weakest positions in 2016.

Welp....it's officially G-Spot Field. What an awful day.

So apparently the Sox signed Matt Davidson's brother, Kevin Davidson. He plays 1B and was assigned to the AZL team.

QUOTE (InTheDriversSeat @ Oct 31, 2016 -> 06:19 PM) Here's a quote from Victor Ciardelli, CEO of Guaranteed Rate, appearing in the Chicago Tribune website today: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-...1031-story.html . "We don't really care what the fans think, we are trying to get our name out there, not actually care about what goes on with or around this team." - Is what it should have read.

Crushed my opponent thanks to Brady/Gronk. I'm now 5-3 on the season, despite scoring over 100 points in 7 of the 8 weeks so far. I lead my league in points for, but also points against.

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 30, 2016 -> 09:09 PM) Glad that's settled. It's a dumb conversation anyway, the Cubs aren't looking to trade Bryant and I can't see the Sox and Cubs ever trading superstars across the city.