almagest

No, the totality of terrible moves and internal nonsense of the last 5+ years led to 121 losses. You don't get historically bad without long term historic incompetence. There is also no universe in which removal of excessive siloing is a bad thing for the future of the organization, and comparing it to a crony hire like Shelly Duncan is just dishonest.

It's encouraging because of context. We have heard from board insiders and in the big expose about the White Sox that the org was ridiculously, comically siloed. That appears to be changing.

Every pitcher in MLB can locate on the inner third, so that’s very concerning. Hopefully Taylor is just working back from injury.

They’re all terrible.

Everyone here says Getz should never have been hired, and agrees that so far his moves have been bad. The only differences are that some of us haven't lost sight of how awful KW and Hahn were, and we're not putting their failures at Getz's feet. We're also hopeful that the personnel changes he's making will show some positive returns.

You're the one who brought up Hahn in the first place. Now when someone, once again, explains the actual position that people who don't agree with you have, you pull up the goalposts.

Who is water carrying for Getz? Everyone here says he should never have been hired, and agrees that so far his moves have been bad. The only differences are that some of us haven't lost sight of how awful KW and Hahn were, and we're not putting their failures at Getz's feet. We're also hopeful that the personnel changes he's making will show some positive returns.

Yes, and clearly every loss this year is an event isolated to this season that has nothing to do with past decisions. The water carrying for Hahn around here is absurd.

If you can’t understand Hahn’s major role in this disaster at this point I don’t think anyone can help you.

As in dies? Or moves on from the org? If Jerry sells to Stewart and Tony is still around I'd bet Tony stays in the org and works with Stewart.

Yup, and TLR probably sticks around after Reinsdorf sells, and there's no way they don't stick their noses in everywhere.

Tigers sure could've used one more reliable starter in the postseason.

Glad you're alright, @The Mighty Mite. We're right outside Jacksonville and luckily haven't had much hurricane damage since we moved here from Old Town in 2022. Worst was our trampoline netting getting destroyed from 100 mph wind gusts during Helene. Milton was about 3 inches of rain and nothing else, though low-lying areas near the St. Johns river and the Atlantic coast had flooding. Second the flood zone note. Glad we paid attention to that when deciding on our home. Below sea level, within a couple miles of the Gulf or Atlantic, or near any larger bodies of water are a no-go.

Yes, I understand that. I'm saying what they should do, and what I hope they do. If they trade him for basically nothing because they have to lower payroll to Oakland levels, then I can't imagine why anyone would want to follow this team.

For sure. Robert isn't worth much right now compared to what he would be worth with a bounceback season, which is why they'd better not trade him unless they can somehow get a solid depth package. Which I doubt, both because of Robert's season and Getz.

Same. Also that play that ended in an interception against the Texans (I think). Everything before that throw was mind-blowing

I think people are assuming some of Holliday's star has worn off due to his shift to 2B and his poor performance in the majors this year. I think that could be true if this was Dombrowski, but I highly, HIGHLY doubt the Orioles are going to trade him, unless they're completely out on him. I don't think they trade anyone but marginal prospects for 1 year or "B" level players.

So many times this year I've been like "oh he's in big trouble... wait what? how?!"

I don't think Getz is a good talent evaluator, but Thorpe was their 5th best (and top 100) prospect, plus won minor league pitcher of the year. He was a solid headliner, especially given no one apparently trades top end hitting prospects anymore. The rest of that package stinks so far, I'll give you that.

That's why I don't want to trade him, because no one is going to pay what the Sox need to help turn this thing around. They're better off hoping he rebounds this year.

That was 5 years ago. Robert did it last year. Way more likely Robert bounces back than Moncada.

5 bWAR/4.9 fWAR in 2023. I'll take the "+" off if it makes you happy. If the Sox think Robert has no chance to get back to a 3+ WAR player, then they should trade him now. If they think Crochet was a 1 year wonder and is likely to get hurt again, or never make it as a SP long-term, then they should trade him now. If Robert turns it around and Crochet continues to be a top flight starter next year, then Getz should be fired immediately because he sold incredibly low on the only two good assets he has remaining. Jackson Holliday was TERRIBLE in 100+ PAs this year. He'll probably be fine, but that doubt is there now. If you trade your top two remaining assets for him and he's not a franchise player, then the rebuild is pushed back even further. That said, I would 100% trade Crochet for him. Robert is not enough right now, I agree there.

I’m not sure this works even if he ends up a good player. Trading a top tier pitcher and a guy who has put up a 5+ WAR season and isn’t old for one guy is madness.

Cease looking like the guy who frustrated us. Pulled after 3 1/3 at over 80 pitches.

Exactly. If Holliday ends up bad or mediocre you end up with nothing. All your hopes are riding on him. Terrible trade.