Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Apr 7, 2009 -> 03:48 PM) Yeah, why be a good manager when you can be lucky? Ozzie has made some of the dumbest moves I've ever seen watching baseball. usually the (poor) excuse made for him is that many other managers in the league are as bad, if not worse. I really need to start watching more teams because I can't imagine many managers being much worse in-game (not that that's an excuse of ANY kind, anyway). All you have to do is watch when we play the Angels. I'm actually an Ozzie fan because I believe the most important thing a manager can do is motivate players, but when it comes to managing in a game, just watch Scoscia. Plus whoever else they've got on the bench does a fine job as well because they must steal on average of 1 sign per game in a series. That said, I'd still rather have Ozzie because I love the passion he brings to the club. I'm hopeful he'll continue to improve in the future. BTW Ozzie is also a great manager when it comes to developing starting pitchers. He has confidence when a lot of managers wouldn't. He's not afraid to let a guy work out of a jam. Case in point: today. Even though Burls is the most consistent veteran in the Central and one of the most consistent in the AL, how many managers would have pulled him in the 5th after that HBP?

The rotations going into this year are going to be tougher than usual to gauge. Every team aside from the Sox has at least one very talented young pitcher who has never had success over a full season in the big leagues before. If one of Liriano, Reyes, Porcello, Jackson, or Davies stay healthy and go off this year then that man's team is going to be a lot more dangerous than it looks on paper. You've also got young pitchers who have had success in the past over a full season but are still young enough to be seen as question marks. Danks, Floyd, Slowey, Baker, Carmona, Greinke, Galarraga all fit this description. Then you've got the veterans in Colon, Contreras, and Pavano who could be huge pluses out of nowhere. The only pitcher in the whole division that I think you can call a consistent veteran that can be counted on is Mark Buehrle. Meche has only had two good years in a row and Lee has only had two above-average full seasons. Bottom line, there are going to be a lot of surprises. There will be breakouts, regressions, probably a veteran somewhere who will come back as an at least decent pitcher, and this will almost certainly be the division that leads the AL in number of different starting pitchers used. Each team may end up using at least 7 different starting pitchers, not counting make-up games. The Twins would appear to be the safest here in terms of depth, followed by the Royals (Hochevar, Cortes, Bannister), Tigers (Bonderman and Robertson), Indians (Westbrook later on, Laffey, Sowers), and lastly our Sox (Richard? Marquez? Poreda? Broadway? LOL we suck in this area, no good depth. Hopefully Harrell makes some noise this year, and I do like Egbert if he moves back to starting, plus there is Ely and Cassel, but there's virtually zero MLB experience here and nobody who looks like he could be better than a back-end guy sans Harrell).

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 6, 2009 -> 11:21 PM) Scott Lewis has been a pretty damn good pitcher coming up in the Indians system and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up pitching like Nick Blackburn did last year. Anthony Reyes has been a pretty solid pitcher coming up and, from everything I've read, he never bought into the Dave Duncan pitching philosophy. In his final 6 starts last year, he absolutely f***ing dominated. Fausto Carmona has amazing stuff and was mediocre last year, but I could easily see him being good again this year. And that's completely forgetting that they have solid options in Westbrook (when he gets healthy), Sowers, and Adam Miller too. Add all of that to the fact that Cliff Lee should be solid again, and Pavano could very easily be a solid starter. Cleveland has had luck with atleast one pitcher like that in the past, and it may be more than that. I am never really sold on Cleveland, but they could very easily be a damn good team this year. Adam Miller is probably done. Per CBSsports: I agree on Carmona. Carmona might become the most dominate pitcher in the AL Central now that Sabathia and Santana are both gone. He's had his ups and downs, but his 2007 season was not a fluke. He's a young pitcher and he is very capable of becoming a force year in and year out. Agree on Reyes as well. I really wanted the Sox to pick him up when he was released/waived/traded for scraps or whatever happened. He has way too much talent to be given up for nothing or a bag of peanuts. I hope he doesn't get it together because if he does we're not going to have fun facing him. I read he was a bit of a headcase/asshole though, so if that's accurate maybe his chances aren't as good as I think they are.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 04:19 PM) Pods can take a walk. Wise currently has better speed and more power. That's about your difference IMO. That, and Pods will still be remembered 50 years from now. I'll always love Pods for what he did for us, but he needs to stay the hell off this baseball team.

^Sorry for the page-long post there. That thing is probably full of grammatical errors but I don't really give a f***. The logic is there, and anyone who disagrees can bite me.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 07:27 PM) So are you saying that Abreu only got a one-year $5 million deal because he signed late, and that his age and eroding skills have nothing to do with it? Yes. It's very, very simple. Abreu was said to have been asking $15M/year all along. Teams didn't have that much money to spend so they passed. Then when there was no market left because teams met their budgets, Abreu signed for much less because he backed himself into a corner. As far as Abreu's eroding skills, Pat Burrell got 2 years, $16M total and he's no defensive whiz either. And if you look at their careers, there's no question Abreu is the better hitter: .257/.357/.485 for Burrell vs. 300/.405/.498. Abreu also brings a ton more speed and he is a whopping 2 years older than Burrell. Burrell isn't exactly a spring chicken, and actually, Burrell's skill set is going to decline a hell of a lot faster than Abreu's will, because Abreu has the better swing and the better approach overall. The ONLY REASON that Pat Burrell got $16M guaranteed while Abreu got just $5M guaranteed is because Abreu held out for more whereas Burrell and his team played the market well and took the first good offer. QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 07:27 PM) Yep, and that's exactly what the Sox did with Vazquez and Swisher. Thanks for proving my point. Nice job totally glossing over the point about the trades. The Sox spent more money on Betemit's arbitration and Viciedo's signing bonus and 2009 salary than they would have spent on Swisher, actually about a million more. Swisher's 2010 salary was not the reason the Sox dealt him. They dealt him because 1) they didn't want to put him in CF again, 2) he was in the manager's doghouse, 3) he sucked last year, 4) the Sox wanted to sign Viciedo, 5) the Yankees offered a fair package of talent. BTW, the Sox have Contreras, Dotel, Thome, and Dye all coming off the books after this year. I strongly doubt the Sox were freaking out about payroll in 2010 when they decided to move Swish. And actually, I'd bet anything that the decision to move Swish was made in September, well before the organizational meetings when the Sox got their budget. As far as Javy goes, did you watch the team last year? Any Sox fan on the planet could have told you Javy was gone. Why pay $11M+ for a #4 starter when you feel you can get near or equal production peripheral-wise for the league minimum or close to it, AND get some very good talent in return in the process? Even if the Sox had a $200M payroll they still would have traded Javy's sorry ass out of Chicago. They chose to meet their budget by getting rid of Javy instead of getting rid of more valuable players. If meeting their budget is a salary dump to you, then I don't know what to say because you're obviously not getting it. The Sox had raises coming to several players and had lost sponsorships on top of it. The Sox still have over a $100M payroll this year. THEY ARE NOT IN SALARY DUMP MODE. QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 07:27 PM) Why are you comparing closer salaries to middle reliever salaries? Wood has actually succeeded as closer in recent memory. The Mets were able to over-pay Putz to be a setup man because they're one of about three teams that can still afford to over-pay players. That's a pretty narrow market. Putz is also a much better pitcher than Dotel, yet still makes less. Your cherry-picking of Putz's stats last year (when he battled rib and elbow injuries) notwithstanding, Putz's '06 and '07 numbers completely blow away anything that Dotel's done in the past four years. Give me an example of a 7th-inning middle reliever who makes $6 million/year. And don't tell me that Dotel is a closer. He hasn't been a consistent and effective closer since his time in Houston. Hell, he couldn't even handle Linebrink's role as a setup man last season. Wow, you're defending Wood's contract now? If any reliever in baseball has a bad contract it is him because he can't stay healthy. Yet somehow he's got that closer tag on him and that makes it defensible? LOL. Another LOL at you talking about me cherry picking a season where Putz was hurt yet you compare it to Octavio's last 4 years, much of which he missed after getting TJ surgery. And I don't see how you could say Putz is a better player than Dotel either unless you're just really anti-Dotel. At best they're even, but I'd say that's pushing it, considering Dotel is only 2 years older yet has pitched more than twice the amount of innings Putz has and has done it in some hitter-friendly places, unlike Putz who has spent his whole career in a pitcher's haven. Dotel's career numbers: 708 IP, 3.76 ERA, 7.2 H/9, 1.2 HR/9, 4.0 BB/9, 11.0 K/9, 1.23 WHIP Putz's career numbers: 323 IP, 3.07 ERA, 7.5 H/9, 0.9 HR/9, 2.9 BB/9, 9.4 K/9, 1.16 WHIP And see, now you're grasping at straws talking about this "7th inning reliever" crap. It doesn't matter what role you are given on a ballclub. The Sox have Dotel working earlier than he's accustomed to because they have DEPTH in the back of their bullpen. Your logic here just fails horribly. Let's say the Mets want to sign Scott Shields to add even more to their pen next year. Because they would plan on having him work the 6th and 7th instead of the 8th, does that mean he should sign for less money? Does that mean his agent should all of the sudden only ask for a salary that run-of-the-mill middle relievers make? Nope. If you're a premier setup man who can close, you make that kind of money. Dotel made that kind of money in what happened to be a good market for relievers. Where he is in the pen is of no consequence whatsoever. Kenny wanted three big name righties in his pen so he went out and got them and paid the price they cost. If you think adding 2 right-handed setup men was excessive then that is your opinion, but your logic is terrible. Players do not get paid according to where the team plans on using them - they get paid based on career and previous year performances. QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 07:27 PM) No idea, as I wasn't sitting in on the negotiations with the Braves. Maybe it's because the Sox have a depleted minor league system and the Braves weren't interested in anybody that Kenny was willing to part with. Maybe Kenny knows things about Josh Anderson that we don't. There could be a number of legitimate reasons. One could easily turn this question around and ask any other major league GM why he didn't trade for Carlos Quentin last winter. LOL once again on the Sox 'depleted farm system.' The system is better now than it has been in quite some time. It sounds like the Braves got basically the Tigers' version of Brian Omogrosso who doesn't even pop up on our top prospects lists. Kenny had MORE than enough talent to acquire Josh Anderson. He could have blown the Braves away without even giving up one of our top-10 guys. Maybe Kenny knows something about Josh Anderson that we don't? What would that be? He has been healthy all spring and I'm sure passed a physical at some point. This doesn't just begin and end with Josh Anderson. There are a ton of guys out there who are or would be making the league minimum and could have been had for little in terms of talent but weren't acquired. Your comment about Carlos Quentin is equally absurd. It's not like the Sox weren't the only team talking to the D'Backs last year. It's not like the Sox were the only team in baseball knew of Carlos' potential. It has been admitted by the D'Backs that they were in talks with the A's for Haren at the time and the A's really wanted to pick up Chris Carter in the deal (which they did), so the D'Backs made the deal with the Sox. They could have had Cliff Lee but they passed because they wanted Haren. Nothing complicated there. QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 07:27 PM) Yeah, and he really backed up your assertion by trading away three quality minor league players for Swisher last year, and then trading for Griffey mid-season. That's an incredible vote of confidence in Wise and Owens. Carlos Quentin wasn't an MVP candidate when the Sox acquired Swisher. Remember how the "THE Carlos Quentin" stuff started out in mockery of KW? Jermaine Dye was coming off of a bad season where he was injured for the first half. Konerko was also coming off of a bad year, AND the Sox had no CF on top of that. Swisher was a guy they obviously liked and at the time it appeared he'd be a key cog on future teams and the Sox would end up moving him elsewhere around the diamond depending on how things shook out. The Sox did not acquire Swisher as the CF of the future. As for Griffey, that was pretty much a non-factor. The Sox lost favor in Richar and didn't need him anyway given Alexei's emergence and Getz's solid career. Masset was a waiver candidate. You talk about the Griffey package like we gave up some great talent to bring him in, but actually we gave up very very little, and the only reason we gave up anything at all was to get the Reds to eat some salary. The Sox probably made up for a good portion of that simply through added ticket sales and jersey sales from fans who were excited to see Griffey in a Sox uniform. Talent-wise, that move was very small. The Griffey trade was about equal to claiming a mediocre middle reliever off of waivers from a performance standpoint. QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 07:27 PM) Kenny thinks that Wise and Owens are adequate players whose flaws can be overcome by Quentin, Thome, Dye, and Konerko. Because if he actually thinks that Wise and Owens are better options than Josh Anderson, he's a f'n moron. And almost everything that Kenny's done over the past five years suggests that he's pretty freaking smart. Kenny must think they're pretty good if he can pass on Josh Anderson and fail to invite Cook to even try out for the job. I agree that Kenny is smart, but he falls in love with his grinders. You shouldn't be surprised at all. Look at Darin Erstad starting for us. Look at some of these guys we've run out there. Just because the guy is smart doesn't mean he isn't prone to stupid, stupid, stupid decisions. There is no reason that Wise should be out there, same was true for Owens. It's not like he's even sacrificing defense for offense; he's sacrificing defense for speed on the basepaths, which is totally useless for a guy who can't even get on base. There is no excuse for a GM to do that. Hell, there isn't even an excuse for a 12-year-old to do that when making out a video game lineup. There are probably entire Little League teams right now sitting in dugouts eating candy bars wondering why in the hell Dewayne Wise is the Sox starting CF. It's the biggest no-brainer out there, yet Kenny misses it again. If I'm going to give Kenny the benefit of the doubt at all, I'd still hang it on Ozzie. Maybe Ozzie told Kenny straight up that he doesn't want anyone else. Maybe Ozzie is the one that likes these guys and Kenny just decides to take a back seat. Either way, there's no excuse for it. We're talking about failing Baseball 101 here. We're talking about a decision that is as easy as deciding to pinch hit for your pitcher with the game on the line in the bottom of the ninth.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 03:41 PM) Why are you comparing a 35-year-old dinosaur who can't play defense anymore to a bunch of players who are still in the primes of their careers? A comparison of Dye to Abreu would be much more appropriate. I'm comparing good offensive players to Dye, and you seem to be missing the entire point. Those players I named, with the exception of Dunn, signed early. Other players got what they did because they wouldn't bring their salary demands down. Because a player forced himself out of an $8M+ per year contract and then ended up signing for around $5 plus incentives doesn't mean what he received is market value. Dye's market value after last season was a lot higher than what you peg him at. QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 03:41 PM) I'm not sure why you're comparing these two, either. When you compare the TOTAL sums of their guaranteed contracts, you'll find that Swisher is owed a hell of a lot more. Taking out Viciedo's $4 million signing bonus, he's only owed $6 million over the next four seasons. Given that Swisher came from the steroids-infested A's and that his numbers have dropped substantially over the past three seasons, I'm wondering if Kenny knows/suspects that Swish was taking more than just creatine in Oakland. Do you know what a salary dump is? A salary dump is when you say, "please, take this contract, our payroll is too high." It is not saying, "please give up a fair package of talent for this guy so we can turn around and spend that exact same amount of money on another player that we think is better." QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 03:41 PM) Dotel has been wildly-inconsistent since he blew out his elbow in Houston. He was also a complete gas can after the ASB last season. Why would a GM want to pay $6 million for a guy like that? Agreed that Linebrink is untradeable. He's publicly stated that he doesn't think that his arm will ever be 100% again. 7.0 H/9, 3.9 BB/9, 12.4 K/9. That's why Dotel would have drawn interest. Do you know how bad bullpens in baseball are, and how much bad relievers get paid? Putz gets $5M this year from the Mets - who they gave up a bunch of talent for - and his peripherals were a TON worse than Octavio's last year. Brandon Lyon got $4.25M as a very late signing in a bad market for FA and was considered a bargain. Kerry freaking Wood got $20.5M guaranteed over 2 years and he can never stay healthy. You're telling me nobody would have wanted Dotel for $6M? QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 03:41 PM) Dotel was brought in as middle reliever. How many middle relievers get $12 million over two years? And his numbers immediately prior to 2007 were not very good, either (1.34 WHIP in 2007, 2.90 WHIP in 2006, and 1.37 WHIP in 2005). Kenny over-paid big-time for Dotel. I highly, highly, highly, highly doubt Kenny gave Dotel a blank check so to speak. Dotel had offers and KW provided what was fair. The Sox have NEVER been a team under KW to go pay way above market value for a player. The closest he's ever come to a horrid signing was Torii Hunter (which was market value) and Fukudome (which was market value). He's not going to bid against himself. QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 03:41 PM) What you interpret as confidence in Owens and Wise, I interpret as Kenny being financially-handcuffed with massive salaries from several aging vets (Thome, Konerko, Dye, Contreras) and a bad economy that will drive down revenue. Financially handcuffed??? Why did we pass on Josh Anderson? Why? He makes the league minimum. Why did we pass on him? Finances had nothing to do with it. Kenny thinks Wise and Owens are good baseball players. s***, isn't it JPN who is always talking up David Cook? He's better than Wise and Owens too and he didn't even get an invite to ST. There's no other way around it. Wise and Owens suck as everyday players, yet the Sox thought they would be good enough. That's why they didn't bring in a better player at the league minimum.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 03:12 PM) Dye at 35 market value is going to be less than $11 million and I think KW would have had a hard time dumping a middle reliever (although I am one of Dotel's biggest fans) making $6.5 million. According to you, I'm crazy. KW definitely overpaid in money for Dotel and years for Linebrink but that was because he was forced to after throwing garbage at the position (he obviously didn't learn his lesson as he is now doing the same thing with a leadoff hitter and CF) for a couple of years. Dye would go for less that $11M, but to say that he's barely worth half that is a major stretch. Kenny would have trouble dealing Swisher right now if he still had him, but he had no trouble moving him at the start of the offseason. If the Sox were in salary dump mode then Dotel probably would have been available at the start of the offseason and I see no reason Kenny wouldn't have been able to move him. The Mets are paying $5M for a setup man in Putz, plus they gave up a lot of talent, and they also gave very good money to K-Rod. If Kenny was looking to dump Dotel, after the numbers he put up last year, I'm sure he could have found a taker. Kenny wasn't "forced" do anything in regards to Linebrink. Kenny brought him in because he wanted to upgrade the bullpen, but Kenny is not forced to upgrade any position. Look at CF.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 11:42 AM) Not with $11 million owed to him. That's about twice his current market value. Pat Burrell is worth $8M/year over 2 years on the open market. Milton Bradley is worth $9M/year over 2 years with a $12M option for a third on the open market. Dunn is worth an average of $10M/year over 2 years on the open market. So now JD is worth about $5.5M on the open market? What Hudson, OC, and Abreu signed for is NOT market value. Why can't people understand this? Those players priced THEMSELVES out of the market. Baseball lost a ton in sponsorships and teams were forced to lower payroll expectations. Agents didn't get the memo until it was too late. You cannot say Hudson, OC, and Abreu signed for market value when 90% of the market was already done spending by the time those players signed. There was virtually NO market at all by that point. Players signed for the salaries they did because they were asking crazy figures when the market opened and teams were unable or unwilling to meet those demands so they looked to meet their budgets in other ways. There is NO WAY that the Giants would have given $18.5M guaranteed over 2 years to Edgar Renteria if OC had been asking for something similar or even less. QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 11:42 AM) The fact that KW chose a gaping hole in the #5 spot over Vazquez pretty much says it all - he wanted to shed payroll. Hell, look at what he got in return for Vazquez and Swisher. He was obviously dumping salary. As scenario mentioned, the returns for both players were good. Actually, the return for Swisher was good, and the return for Vazquez was great. It was more than I thought we'd be able to get at the time. Also, Swisher makes $5.3M this year. The Sox are paying Dayan Viciedo $5M this year. Coincidence? QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 11:42 AM) I don't think that any GM would want to pick up Dotel or Linebrink's contracts right now. Both are entering the down-sides of their career and Kenny over-paid for both out of desperation last winter. Dotel is in the final year of his deal and makes $6M. You're crazy if you don't think the Sox could have dumped that if they wanted to. Linebrink is another story. And I disagree on KW overpaying at the time he acquired them. Both players were looking for closer gigs at the start of that offseason and KW paid the price of a premier setup man in Linebrink and a cheap closer in Dotel. Linebrink got too many guaranteed years, but the market was different then. Those were the days when players like Jamie Walker and Scott Schoenweis made bank. Luis Vizcaino as another example makes $3.5M, and Linebrink only makes $1M more than he does this year. QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 11:42 AM) I don't think that Kenny is dumb enough to believe that a career minor-league journeyman like Wise is capable of being a legitimate starting CF. He may be holding out some hope that Owens can raise his OBP enough to lead off, but I don't see him holding his breath. Think about it: If Kenny had such great confidence in these two turds, why did he give up substantial minor-league talent for both Swisher AND Griffey last year? Kenny tried solidifying CF last year by spending on veterans. It didn't work out, so why not go cheap at this position when the economy is forcing you to lower payroll anyway? When you can acquire a player like Josh Anderson for very little and pass, or when you can take a flyer on a guy like Edmonds and pass, or when you can turn your nose up at a reasonably solid complimentary player like Chris Denorfia who can also be had for very little, then it certainly sounds like you have quite a bit of confidence in what you have. If the Sox didn't like Wise or Owens as starters they wouldn't have been in camp in the first place. Simple as that.

Put me down for HELL NO. Ugh. Just in case anyone in power reads this board, we shouldn't be giving them anymore bad ideas. They've got enough of their own. Just let Wise fail like nearly every single fan in baseball knows he's going to and then hope to God that Ozzie finally wakes the f*** up and puts BA out there. If not, then pray we acquire an actual centerfielder to replace Wise, not another left fielder.

QUOTE (scenario @ Apr 1, 2009 -> 10:18 PM) FWIW, Willy Taveras' spring stats were almost the exact same as Jerry Owens'... Taveras: .233 BA; .340 OBP; .256 SLG; 3 SB; 2 CS; 1 extra-base hit of any kind all spring (a double) Owens: .230 BA; .342 OBP; .262 SLG; 3 SB; 3 CS; 2 extra-base hits (both doubles) Meh, Taveras is a .283/.331/.337 hitter in 1,973 Major League AB and he can actually play CF. He hit .251/.308/.296 last year in by far the worst year of his career and he still would have been a better player than Owens because of his defense. In fact, Taveras' 2008 line might be about what you could reasonably expect out of Owens anyway.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 1, 2009 -> 10:05 PM) Kenny will never admit it to the public, but they're rebuilding and dumping salary right now. Right or wrong, that's why we don't have Hudson or Taveras. I don't buy this. Dye would have been gone before the winter meetings if so, like I believe both Javy and Swisher were. Also, some closers got good money this year and Octavio with his $6M salary probably would have been on the block. The Sox are going younger and cheaper (and better) year by year, but I think what actually happened was the Sox were planning on having a higher payroll before they were given their budget. They then moved enough salary to meet their needs and nothing more. On top of that, the Sox apparently have felt all along that Wise and Owens are capable of being full-time starting CFers in the Major Leagues. Salary had nothing to do with the Sox passing on guys like Josh Anderson, and actually, either Josh Anderson or Gregor Blanco could have been possibilities in the Javy deal. The Sox are in the situation they're in because they still love their damn grinders.

Man that trade was such a steal, and lol on the Rangers thinking he's going to be better by taking away his curveball. Check out his delivery. It doesn't matter what they do, he's going to have a hard time staying healthy. Wish Brandon the best though. He was huge for us down the stretch in 2005. Rarely do you see rookies come in and absolutely dominate the way he did against Boston.

NorthSideSox probably should have saved his post for tomorrow. Would have been a good one.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 09:03 PM) Haha. Read the Chisox article. I could hear you guys screaming before you even read it. This one?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 06:10 PM) That's fine. But the gist of what I said was basically you can't spit on every guy that's out there then in the end say anybody's grandmother would be a better choice than Wise. I wanted Willy Taveras. And I'm sure we all know how that went around here (kennyprospects and caufield can surely back me up here). Yep, I'll back you. I did the same thing. Ugh, at least half of my posts on Soxtalk are arguing against Owens and Wise as starters in CF. It's not that I think Taveras and BA are awesome hitters or anything, it's that I like defense in CF. I argued in favor of Willy over and over because he was available for nothing and can play D, plus he has a track record. If Ozzie wants a speedy player in CF, fine, but put a guy out there who can play the position. I've argued against Coco Crisp in the past but that was because of his assumed asking price and I never thought the guy was worth a top prospect. But had I known he was going to be traded for a middle reliever, I'd have definitely supported an acquisition. Personally, I'd be happy with BA out there but it doesn't seem like Ozzie wants to give him another extended chance. Anderson is not the type of guy you just stick on the bench and then hope he tears it up and forces his way into the lineup if he gets 3-4 starts in a row. That'll never happen with him; he doesn't have the swing for it. Either you put him out there for a couple months straight and see what happens, or you go out and get someone else who can play the position.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 02:44 PM) (Calls Back) Beane: Who do you want? KW: Denorfia Beane: Give me Beckham, Allen, Poreda, and the Danks kid too. KW: But that sounds- Beane: I'm Billy F^&%#ing Beane (hangs up) KW: That man should never have written that book. Very possible, but it could have also gone like this: (Billy Beane calls back) ring, ring, ring.... KW: What? Beane: I'm sorry I yelled... KW: Beane: What is it that you need? KW: I'm interested in Denorfia. Beane: Fair, very fair. He's available. How about Brian Omogrosso? KW: Beane: Kenny? Kenny, are you there? KW: The man is like a son to me. (click)

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 07:15 AM) Juan Silverio, age 21, was arrested yesterday in Santo Domingo while trying to leave the country to start the season for the Chicago White Sox Class A Affiliate Kannapolis Intimidators. Attempts to reach officials with the White Sox were unsuccessful. Not a real news item, just something like what we may read very soon. Close, but I'd make a slight adjustment: Jose Miguel Dias, age 30, and Rafael Luis Perez, age 21, were arrested yesterday in Santo Domingo while trying to leave the country. Traveling together, investigators are said to have found in excess of $3200USD cash and more than one kilogram of cocaine in the suspects' luggage. According to an anonymous source, Dias has been working as a dancer for Arizona nightspot Club Burn. Perez, believed to be Dias' lover, is a professional baseball player in the Chicago White Sox organization under the alias Juan Silverio. Attempts to reach officials with the White Sox were unsuccessful.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) KW is on record saying no one who was available was better than what the Sox had in-house. That means since Jerry Owens is waived, no one available was better than Dewayne Wise. Dewayne will have ample opportunity to show everyone how much smarter KW is than everyone else. KW calls Billy Beane Ring, ring, ring... Beane: Yes? KW: Hi Billy, I was wondering if Chris Denorfia is avail.... Beane: You insolent bastard!!! (click) So either that happened or Dewayne Wise is a better baseball player.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) I still think that if Jordan Schaefer wins the Atlanta CF job, you go hard after Gregor Blanco. Or even Reggie Willits. I'd much prefer Reggie Willits leading off for the White Sox than Dewayne Wise. I'd definitely back a Blanco deal because the man can get on base. All he's done over the past few years is improve and he showed quite a bit in a large number of AB last season as a rookie. Don't know how much he'd cost though, but I'm guessing he wouldn't be very cheap. If he's a long-term option I'd be fine with giving up the talent to get him, so long as I could keep Beckham, Viciedo, Harrell, Allen, Flowers and Danks.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 01:47 PM) in regards to leading off, Chris Getz has stepped up nicely. And in regards to CF, Anderson hit decently and I'll take his track record defensively in CF. Eventually Getz leading off has to happen. The question is how long we're going to have to wait.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 01:37 PM) Give me a break. The Sox were very nearly the worst team in the AL in terms of OBP in the #1 and #2 lineup spots last year (3rd to last), borderline wasting the very best full-time #3 hitter in the league. Not only did he fail to upgrade these two spots but as it stands right now it looks like he managed to downgrade. Get creative, find someone, anyone that can get on base at a decent clip and maybe run a little to hit in at the top of the lineup, no excuses. Hell, he removed 2 players from the 2007 ballclub in Orlando Cabrera and Nick Swisher that are better top of the order hitters than what we have now. It doesn't take much to upgrade from Dewayne Wise, believe it or not these players do exist. I think he envisioned Jerry Owens or even more so Brent Lillibridge as his 2009 opening day leadoff hitters, unfortunately for him both proved this March that they're not major league quality hitters. When you say things like this just 2 weeks ago then turn around and hand the job to a player who's nearly the complete opposite of what you've described you deserve as much criticism as the fans can muster. When guys like Josh Anderson and Chris Denorfia are out there on the trading block and available cheaply but are passed on, when Coco Crisp goes for a middle reliever but is passed on, when Willy Taveras is a FA and passed on, when Andruw Jones is available for the minimum but passed on, when Edmonds is a FA but passed on, when Kotsay is a FA but passed on, when guys like Gregor Blanco, Randy Winn, Melky Cabrera, and Mike Cameron are also available but passed on, then it really starts to look like the Sox felt all along that one or both of Owens and Wise were viewed as Major League starters in CF from the very beginning. There are lots of ideas out there and I highly doubt the Sox couldn't put a deal together with anyone. It seems much likelier that they just didn't try. Some of these guys don't cost anything but a small bit of money; others make the minimum or just above and would cost a couple halfway decent prospects that wouldn't crack our top-10 and probably not even our top-15.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 31, 2009 -> 11:35 AM) I don't understand why it is so difficult to believe that he can regain his form. Why is it assumed that he will stay awful now that he has been awful, but not that he can pitch well when he did in fact pitch well for a while a few years ago? The logic makes little sense to me... Just look at his motion. He'll always struggle to find control. That's the reason we released Andy Sisco, who is another guy that if he could ever control himself would be lights out in the pen. Mac has been locating his slider and dropping it over for strikes which is why he made the team. It's weird, but right now it's working. I hope that if he starts out doing very well we can deal him to the NL and pick up a prospect while dumping his salary and dumping his 2010 buyout. I think that would be a blessing. Besides, Jhonny Nunez looked like he's not too far away this spring. Then we have guys like Harrell, Link, Derek Reodriguez, Egbert, Omogrosso, etc. who have never been given shots in the Majors and maybe one of those guys can step up if need be. I'm cautiously optimistic about Mac, but I wouldn't trust him for a full season.

QUOTE (scenario @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 09:36 PM) I'm not the person you were asking... And I happen to like Brian... But regarding your question about offense in CF vs. defense in CF... Statistically speaking, offense has about 2X as much impact as defense. That's not a random swag number... that's the result of research professionals have done on the subject. Obviously you don't want to play someone who is a hack in the field, but offense trumps defense 2:1 I wouldn't buy that bridge they're selling then. The difference between a .250 hitter and a .300 hitter over a full season is about 5 hits per month, actually a little less. The difference between a great CF and a poor CF isn't going to even show up on the stat sheet because balls that would be caught fall and baserunners that wouldn't advance do, and no penalty is charged to the fielder. If any of this is true, then I'd like to know why the Royals traded for CoCo Crisp to move David DeJesus out of CF, or why we still don't have Swisher or Griffey, or why Torii Hunter of the career .272/.326/.468 line makes $18M a year. But either way, Wise isn't a .300 hitter, we're talking a .260 hitter at best, which is still higher than his career minor league average, vs. a .230 hitter.

QUOTE (FranktheTank35 @ Mar 30, 2009 -> 09:09 PM) Yeah, which comes down to us needing to move Dye. I love the guy, he is an awesome hitter, but hes definitely slowing down on the field. Let him DH next year when Thome goes on, and put Quentin in RF. I think that all depends on Brandon Allen and Viciedo. If the Sox deem both of those players ready then we might be looking to let go of JD and put Allen in as the DH with Viciedo moving to an OF corner.