Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 26, 2009 -> 09:00 AM) Wassermann struck out 3 guys in one inning, that's pretty distinguished to me. And from the sound of it, Flowers didn't do a whole lot to stop that WP Wassermann threw. I didn't see it so I'm just guessing, but with a better defensive catcher back there Ehren could have conceivably gotten out of that inning without even allowing an inherited run. I also would add that Fields sounded impressive. It sounded like he hit the ball hard for an out and beat out an IF hit before that. If Fields has his old speed back then that is a big plus for his overall game.

He's listed as being on the Chinese Taipei WBC roster and there's no organization listed next to his name. Maybe this was already covered but I missed it. Here's the link: http://web.worldbaseballclassic.com/roster...amp;season=2009 He's one of eight Lins on the team. For those of you keeping score at home, that is 8 Lins, 2 Chengs, 2 Kaos, 3 Kuos, a Wang, a Tang, a Chan, and a Pan. No Dong though, he plays for China alongside Yang Yang.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 10:14 AM) If Cunningham was as good or better than Rowand or Chris B. Young, you'd have a good point. The problem is that we need a natural defensive CFer and a leadoff hitter. I think Jordan Danks might end up being a better fit for that position, or even Brian Anderson still, than Aaron Cunningham. The problem with Brian is that he will never, ever be a leadoff hitter, so he'd have to be the #8 or #9 guy. It will also be interesting to see who has the better career in the majors, Ryan Sweeney or Aaron Cunningham. If Brian ever reaches his potential he can be a #6 or #7 guy. I've always felt he could be kind of like a Torii Hunter. The chances of that happening are probably pretty small though, because if he doesn't win the job this ST and perform right away, then he'll probably never get another extended shot again. God I hope Brian does well. Go Brian. I'm sick of having to defend that guy. I just want him to hit .270 over the course of a 500+ AB season, because if he does that, there are going to be 20+ HR that go along with it.

Something tells me that if he's healthy, Crede is going to be another damn Sox killer. I hope his back issues go away, he has a good year, the Twins tank, and then he gets traded to the NL midseason.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Feb 25, 2009 -> 08:51 AM) in an ideal world Contreras and Colon make the rotation, with Richard in the pen, and Poreda and Marquez growing as starters in AAA With the ability of Betemit to play everywhere on the IF, and Lillibridge to potentially play CF (and even Alexei if need be) I think the sox will take 12 pitchers...especially with jose and bartolo coming off of injury.. If I was ozzie right now, here would be my team Getz 2b Fields 3b Quentin LF Thome DH Dye RF Konerko 1b AJ C Ramriez SS Anderson CF I'm not too crazy with having two young guys at the top like that, but I assume 3-6 is locked in, so I like having strong OBPs up at the top, and cadidly I think Getz and Fields will have better obps than Alexei, Anderson and AJ Bench: Armstrong, Betemit, Lillibridge, Owens (who would be great PR late, then he can go to left, CQ to right and Dye can come off the field) ...somehow i don't see us casting off wise, though i would like it Bullpen: Jenks, Thornton, Linebrink, Dotel, Richard, Carassco, Wasserman/nunez/Russell...I haven't seen nunez, but I like Russell better than Wasserman Agree with all of this except for a couple things. I like Wise as a 4th OF since he can be clutch and has some pop. Lillibridge has speed like Owens, and from what I've read he sounds like he'd be the better baserunner there too. Owens really has nothing to offer this team IMO. Also, if Josh has an OBP similar to Alexei it is because he's walking, but Josh's batting average is going to drag his OBP down the same way Alexei's batting average will pull his OBP up. If the choice is between the two, I'd rather have Alexei hitting 2nd because of his speed, contact, and the fact that the better hitter should get more AB's. Getz is probably more of an ideal #2 hitter, but unless Lillibridge makes the team as a starter somewhere, he's probably the best fit we'd have there. In my perfect world, Lillibridge is the starting 2B and lead-off man with Getz getting lots of productive playing time as a UT IF. Everything else would be what you've drawn up, especially in regards to our SP prospects staying in the minors to continue to develop. That, and Jerry Owens would go out with Lance Broadway and Kyle McCulloch on a Sonoran Desert peyote adventure and end up lost for good.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 24, 2009 -> 06:16 PM) Yes and no, the Yankees/Mets/Red Sox can compensate for a lack of scouting talent (but I don't think that's the case) by the money everyone knows they can throw at a player. However, if you look over the last 2-3 years, the number of organizations signing international players to $500+ signing bonuses has really diversified. With the Internet and video scouting, the playing field has been evened a bit, because the majority of teams are in bidding wars for players instead of being the first one in on the ground floor and hiding that player and signing him b4 anyone else finds out about him. That's just getting more and more difficult in this day and time. Heck, there are blogs out there and video on the Cuban players now, imagine something like that 10-15 years ago...things have changed so dramatically. I agree with the point about those marquee franchise (Mets, Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox, maybe the Angels to a lesser extent now) needing to do well in order to "subsidize" the bottom 10 teams in the league. Then there's the case studies of the A's, Twins and Rays....and even Milwaukee was able to put together a very competitive club, spend money on Sabathia...and make him legit offer to come back. We know it can be done, which should offer some encouragement to fans of smaller market teams. I agree with all this, but I still don't think the international playing field has really evened out or will even out so long as certain teams have higher budgets. The large market teams can always afford to spend more in any given area, and as we've seen so often in baseball unlike other sports, it is often quantity over quality. For example, we gave Dayan something like $10M I believe. That's great, and I hope he becomes the next Miguel Cabrera, but I'd feel much more confident in our ability to produce at least one superstar had we taken that $10M and signed 30 of the top 60 international prospects for $333K a piece. Obviously that is unrealistic, but the point I'm making is that even though the field has leveled to the extent of large and small market teams both becoming aware of certain players, and even though both types of teams may have the funds to offer large enough bonuses to sign a particular player, the large market teams always have the advantage. The large market teams can afford to spend, spend, spend in multiple areas regardless of whether or not they get their most desired player, whereas small market teams, should they splurge, are forced to make a decision between splurging on one top player or spreading the money around to many of the more under-the-radar players. But anyway, I think the large-market teams always need some advantage as well in order to keep them and baseball itself successful. A slotted draft would be a nice thing to see overall, but it would hurt the large market teams considerably, and you'd have to in return protect their interests through international free agency. I also agree with you about the teams that have had success with lesser budgets. These are the types of small- and middle-market teams baseball should be looking to reward through a slotted draft, not garbage like the Pirates. Because through a slotted draft, teams have the ability to manage the finances of their drafts knowing that they'll be able to get the best player available at any given slot, and they'll know how much the bonus amount would be. Look at the Twins taking Ben Revere when lots of people thought that was a bad or at least strange pick. Imagine what the Twins could have done had they been able to trade down, take Revere later, then pick up a second or third rounder in the process. Even though all teams have knowledge of all the best players, not all scouts are the same, and not all GM's are the same, and a team may easily view a guy projected to go 40-50 as a better bet to be a better player than some of the guys projected to go in the 21-30 range where they pick.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 24, 2009 -> 12:31 PM) I think teams like the Red Sox and Yankees can get away with spending less on scouting and have weaker scouts because of the system now. Its pretty common knowledge who are the top players in the draft. You can determine them fairly cheaply. The Yankees can just wait for them to fall because they won't sign for X amount of $. Another thing I would like to see is the ability to trade draft picks. No matter what, the system now sucks. There is no way signability should be an issue in a draft in the first round, unless its a kid who is deciding between college and starting his pro career. Maybe even make players declare for the draft. I agree with you on determining the best of the international free agents fairly cheaply, but there is still a max amount your middle and small-market teams can spend, and while the same holds true for teams like the Yankees, they - at the expense of a slotted draft that takes away large, late-round and late-draft bonuses - would be able to afford to spend much more internationally than they already do, which is already more than most teams. Agree 100% on trading draft picks. I wish they'd do that already. Making players declare for the draft would be a great change as well. If you slot the draft, make players declare, and come up with set rules for MLB contracts determined by draft position or eliminate MLB contracts altogether, then you will see drafts where teams generally take the best players available throughout the first five rounds plus. And BTW, I really, really love the idea of trading draft picks. Imagine what a team like the Braves for example could do if they were able to trade their late 1st for 2-3 2nds and a 3rd, especially with slot rules. They could end up spending the same on those players as they would spend on one first rounder, but because of their ability identifying players, they could come up with more 1st round talent. I think in such a situation you end up rewarding the teams that do their homework, and they also make MLB trades easier.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 24, 2009 -> 11:28 PM) Which puts all the pressure on Owens/Wise and then Lillibridge/Nix/Getz...along with the back-up catcher race. Haven't seen many mentions of Jimenez or Nunez taking the final spot in the pen. That's a possibility as well. If Contreras and Colon make the Opening Day roster, then you have to figure Richard makes the team as the second lefty in the pen. Richard probably would have made the team without even showing up to ST. If that happens, we have: Jenks - CL Thornton - LSU Linebrink - RSU Dotel - RMR Richard - LMR Carrasco - LR Jimenez and Nunez would have to make pretty big jumps in order to make the team, but it is still a possibility. The competition: Poreda, Link, Wassermann, Russell, MacDougal (if the Sox still are paying him, then he's going to be given a real shot in the hopes that he can show enough to have his salary dumped), Jimenez, Nunez, possibly others. I think Jimenez and Nunez are probably in the Cleveland Santeliz-type longshot-but-with-a-great-spring-we-have-to-take-you category. It seems like the Sox want Poreda in the pen too, so the competition could all be for naught. Link could actually be the favorite however if Poreda is sent to the minors to start since Wassermann and Russell both have options left. Also, if Colon and Contreras both make the squad, you have to figure the Sox will need a LR to piggy-back the starters if necessary. Marquez could steal the final slot in that situation, or more likely, Poreda would make the pen as a second lefty with Richard and Carrasco both being used as LR/starter insurance. The Sox would probably separate Colon and Contreras in the rotation then, maybe going with a rotation of Buehrle-Contreras-Danks-Floyd-Colon after opening week, with the Sox skipping a start or using an offday to reset the rotation.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 24, 2009 -> 10:12 AM) Add to that a world wide draft, and I am sold. Take the monetary advantages of being a big market team away from some teams, and you have a chance at seeing a revival in some of the small franchises. A worldwide draft is more fair, but I don't think it would work out all that well. Would Daisuke Matsuzaka leave baseball in Japan to go play for the Pirates, because the posting system would be gone? And not only that, but it hurts teams like us with our Cuban connections, Seattle with their Japanese connections, New York with their Dominican connections, etc. I kind of like the international FA system as it is simply because it's a free market, and I think it would be a great balance to a rigid slotting system in the draft. If you slot the draft, then the best talent is still going to get overpaid, it's just that now the s***ty teams are going to get all those guys and they won't fall lower. I personally don't feel you should punish teams like the Yanks and Red Sox for doing the scouting, spending lots but spending wisely, and winning, while rewarding teams like Pittsburgh who run their organizations like utter s*** with the best players in the draft. Keeping international FA like it is would still allow the big market, bottom-first round teams to get high level first round talent elsewhere. Of course there's the argument that such-and-such team is winning, and such-and-such spends more money, so they can live without that type of talent falling to them, but realistically, teams like the Yankees and Red Sox need that talent, because they need to win, because half of baseball depends on them through revenue sharing. Make no mistake, if the Yankees don't win and draw, then the Pirates contract, simple as that. Players are out of jobs and parity in baseball is gone. Also, you have to consider that teams that frequent the top of the draft usually suck because they suck as an organization. Why have the Twins and A's specifically done so well over the years despite smaller payrolls? Why do the Cubs spend like the Cubs and still end up the Cubs, meanwhile St. Louis will spend just as much or less and come away the better team? The Cubs won their divisions the last two years, but it hasn't always been like that. And look at Tampa. They had the best picks for a long time but the only reason any of it is paying off now is because as an organization they are run much better. Sure BJ Upton is a stud, but it was the JP Howell, Edwin Jackson, Andy Sonnanstine, Akinori Iwamura, Grant Balfour, Dioner Navarro, Gabe Gross, take-a-chance-on-Carlos Pena, dump-Elijah Dukes-for-nothing, type of complimentary/unheralded picks and moves that made them AL Champions last year. Also, if you slot the first round in such a way that 20-30 overall picks are getting something like $2-3M in bonuses - because you know the MLBPA would want large bonuses all the way through the first round in exchange for doing away with the later round, high-bonus picks - then you end up hurting teams like the Twins, who rely on their scouting and generally spend cheaply on the draft. And of course the late round, high-bonus players couldn't work anymore. I think if the draft were to be slotted, you'd have to keep international FA the way it is, plus bring back the draft-and-follow system, plus allow for the trading of draft picks (so the #1 team doesn't have to spend $7M on a draft pick if they can't afford it, and can opt to trade down for say a #20, a #27, and a #50 instead). On top of that, you also have to come up with rules about MLB contracts, like either eliminate MLB contracts entirely or make it a rule for the first five or so picks. Because otherwise, if say you wanted to take a high school player within the first few picks but didn't want to give him an MLB contract because you're unsure if he'd be ready in four years, then either you'd be forced to trade down and take him after the MLB contract slots were gone, or select another player. I'd rather eliminate the MLB contracts because it would ensure almost every single top-5 or so pick is a college player, but this would be an issue for the MLBPA as well. And furthermore, you couldn't slot the draft without coming up with a legit FA compensation system. You'd have to know what pick and therefore what amount of money your compensation-eligible player is worth so you could then decide what he's worth to you. For this, I think the Elias system is a great start, but what I would do it take the 30 best FA's according to Elias, put each of their names into a plastic ball, and then hold a lottery. Eliminate the supplemental first round, then have a slotted second round with equal bonuses throughout (say $750K) work solely as a compensation round. You do your lottery, and however it lines up, each departing player nets his former team that pick. You don't charge the signing team with a draft pick and you don't deal in Type A/Type B designations. You make a list of all players, and the top 30 that are offered and deny arbitration and sign with new MLB teams are the ones worth picks. Teams may have several picks in this round or none. I think a system like that would work well also because it would help facilitate more deadline deals as Type A players would be worth a lot less on the open market, being worth only one pick instead of two. That was a long post. But I hope some of it made sense.

We've had times in Sox history where we've had more prospects, many of which had higher ceilings, but I can't remember a time since I've been a Sox fan where we've had so many young guys that I actually have confidence in. I have total faith in Beckham, Viciedo, Fields, and Jordan Danks as starters; I'm confident Getz and Poreda will all make for decent at worst MLB players (Getz at least as a UT guy, Poreda at least as a lefty setup man); and I'm optimistic about Allen, Shelby, Flowers, and Lillibridge, although those would be my biggest candidates for possible busts. I'll throw this out there right now: if some of the rumors and deadline speculation going around becomes true, then our logjams seem to coincide brilliantly with Toronto's largest areas of need. And that's all I'll say.

BTW the Cubs will win their division because they are the only team in that division good enough to play in the American League. My Cubs predictions: Ryan Dempster will fall off and Marshall will out-perform him at a cost of about 97% less than Dempster's pricetag. Soriano will get hurt again and continue to strike out too much. Fukudome will be an average player with a huge contract. Aramis Ramirez will have an awesome year. Fans will throw lots of garbage onto the field.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 20, 2009 -> 09:49 AM) No he hasn't. Since 2000, Lou Piniella has led teams to 4 playoff appearances, 4 90+ win seasons (including a 116 win season), and got the lowly Devil Rays out of last place for the first time in their existence, who were an absolutely terrible team at the time. Meanwhile, Dusty Baker has made the playoffs 3 times, won 90 games only 3 times, and has had some pretty outstanding teams throughout that. The only thing you could argue is that Dusty Baker may be a better playoff manager than Lou. Lou Piniella is far superior to Dusty Baker. Dusty is one of the dumbest managers in the game. That's harsh, dude. Everyone knows that dark-skinned players perform better under the sun than light-skinned players do. Corey Patterson rules!

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 10:32 AM) Hah, we fans will rip the hamburgers out of our team all day and night long. And that's fine. But when an OUTSIDER does it for us, well that's when the hamburger really hits the fan! What a no-good, know-nothing, fat, pathetic loser! White Sox fans have become fairly noteworthy for writing in and harassing these writers for unfavorable predictions... There's nothing wrong with a predicting a bad year for the Sox so long as you have an actual reason to do so. If he'd said the Sox don't have the SP depth to win I'd be fine with that. But he says Quentin is the only up-and-coming position player the Sox have and doesn't know that Betemit is a UT player. He doesn't know who Dayan Viciedo is either, and he says Paulie is on the way down like he's been on top of some mountain for the last two years. What's he going to do, hit .212? If I had been tasked with writing a prediction for say the San Diego Padres, the least I'd do is go to their MLB page and read a few stories to find out what's going on. The dude wrote this without even thinking of doing any real research into the matter and comes off like an idiot as a result. How much time does it take to read a couple of Scott Merkin's mailbags? If I may be Canadian for a moment, what a hoser...

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 06:42 AM) He does have the right to waive that clause, about not being able to be traded until June...I think I read that somewhere. Well, this case, Varitek, Juan Cruz....they were all pretty unique. I think the White Sox would obviously have to work everything out (although I'm not sure they could put it in black and white obviously, handshake type of deal/gentleman's agreement) first with the other teams in terms of the contract numbers and the prospects coming to the Sox. Or maybe it would be one of those deals like the one for Carl Everett where the Rangers were offered a pool of players to choose from...it could also be tied into Cabrera's 2009 performance level theoretically. I'd omit Varitek from that group. Varitek's situation was nothing but pure stupidity and greed on his part. Boston offered arb and NO ONE was going to take Varitek for an equal or greater salary PLUS give up a pick on top of that but yet Varitek passed. For all this s*** about Borass being a top agent, it doesn't sound like he knows how to assess a market, and Varitek should have known better than to take his idiotic advice. Varitek should have fired that assclown on the spot. It seems that Borass' only good deals lately have been with his no-brainer candidates like A-Rod and Teixera. He got dropped by a few players and almost f***ed Pedro Alvarez out of playing in 2009 among other things. The situations for Juan Cruz, Orlando Cabrera, and Orlando Hudson are unfortunate however. Those are all very good players who are worth last year's market value and are certainly worth a couple draft picks. If Cruz does do a sign-and-trade with the D'Backs I hope we enter the picture, especially if he's only going to cost like $3M on a 1-year deal or something like that. Edit: I just have to add that isn't it funny how the Cubs spent $82M this offseason on 3 years of Milton Bradley and 4 of Ryan Dempster, $23M in '09, when they could have had Abreu + Cruz + Lowe for the same price per year? And they traded their best pitching 'spect for Kevin Gregg, then failed to get Jake Peavy for basically nothing because they spent too much money on Alfonso Soriano, Jason Marquis, and Kosuke Fukudome. Stupid Cubs. They'll never win.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 09:04 AM) Chris Getz puts up a ridiculously similar line to Tadahito's 2005, but with about 7 fewer homers. We applaud. I don't think that's very bold. Yes he's going to have to adjust to MLB pitching, but with his contact rate and the fact that he's a line drive hitter who isn't afraid to take a walk (although he's not going to pile them up) I think he can easily duplicate Iguchi's AVG and OBP as a rookie. The question is though, if Getz does that and Beckham tears it up in Birmingham, what do the Sox do then? I love finally having IF depth. It's been a long time.

This guy obviously knows nothing about the Sox. Betemit is not a candidate for 3B. Fields is the man and Viciedo is the challenger. The pitching looks anything but solid. Paulie on the way down? He can't fall much further than he has the last two years. JD is like 35, not 45. He's a power hitter who makes enough contact to stick around and be productive for a couple more years. And only ONE guy on the way up? Um, have you heard of Alexei Ramirez? People who don't research topics shouldn't write about them.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 12:52 AM) i thought putz went to the mets? You're right. -1 again for Seattle.

There's another thread on this in the diamond club but I figured I'd start one here because this pertains to the Sox. The Dodgers were rumored earlier on to have interest in signing OC but they didn't want to give up their first rounder. It appears the A's are also interested but don't want to give up their second rounder. The Sox get a supplemental first in addition to that if Cabrera signs elsewhere. If Cabrera doesn't sign before the deadline then the Sox obviously get nothing. The question is, if you are KW, do you hold out hoping a team will sign Cabrera before the deadline and net you that (likely) second round pick plus the supplemental pick? Or do you take the safer route, and try to find an interested team that would make a deal of Cabrera for 2 prospects, one of which the Sox value equally with a supplemental pick, and another a high upside throw-in? I bring up the Dodgers mainly because the Sox are now sharing facilities with them and will likely become a regular trade partner going forward like the D'backs were. The Sox are going to get a great chance to see any Dodgers 'spects they like, so perhaps a match can be found. Lets say the Dodgers value player A as less than a first round pick, but the Sox view that same player as equal to a supplemental first round pick or higher. The Sox could then sign Cabrera, trade him for that prospect and some longshot throw-in to go along with it, and now everybody is happy. The Dodgers get their player without having to lose a draft pick or give up a prized prospect, Cabrera is signed, and the Sox get a player that is already under contract and performing at the minor league level, so they get first round talent but save the first round bonus money, and they don't have to worry about getting shut out of a couple draft picks. To me this sounds like it could be an interesting route to take.

QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Feb 17, 2009 -> 12:02 AM) Sox will finish in first and make a run in the Playoffs. Yanks will fall short because they lack offense and the pitching will not live up to hype. Cubs will be challenged for division lead by an unexpected opponent, but will still make playoffs. Tampa will finish last as injuries will crop up. Seattle will have the biggest turn around in the history of baseball, but fall short in division series. Giants will win the NL west and the Nat's will be competitive in the first half of the season in the east. Chicago will win the World Series in seven games against Chicago. Their will be a blizzard in the world Series that will delay the finish for a week causing the Wiggly Rats to run to the Cubs dugout for shelter. The Rats will disrupt the Cubs concentration and cause them to blow game 7 in one of the most comical finishes in world series history. The Sox will prevail because the Rat curse is now on for the Cubs. This would be a great finish for Baseball. That is bold. Can you imagine if we had a rotation like the Yankees? CC is an ace, Wang is very close to it, and both are good for 200+ IP. Pettite supplies another solid 200IP, then Burnett the wildcard should provide 180 Javy-like innings, and Joba Chamberlain is their 5th starter. And on top of that, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy are sitting on the outside as depth. If the Yankees pitching disappoints then it is because they don't get 70+ wins out of their rotation alone. The only way we can come close to matching that is if the old Cy Young Bartolo shows up, our three returning starters do not regress, and we get at least 10 wins out of the fifth starter spot. Also, Seattle is horrible- like very horrible. Will Bedard even pitch this year? They've got Ichiro, King Felix and Putz. For them to turn around they need breakouts from Balantien, Clement, Ronny Cedeno, Brandon Morrow as a starter, they need a healthy Bedard... they need a miracle to even sniff .500 in that division with the Angels and the improved Oakland and Texas squads.

-By the time August rolls around, our regular fifth starter is either Egbert, Cassel, or Ely -both Fields and Viciedo prove to be ready to hit a ton right now, and the logjam is solved via an injury to a slugger -Owens stays healthy through ST, makes the team, and Ozzie sticks with him until his head explodes and he has to finally admit that he made a mistake and that Jerry Owens sucks at baseball; BA becomes the starter and does a pretty good job, starts slowly adjusting from the bench role and gets hot in August through the end of the season -Bartolo is a total non-factor (is that bold?) -Sox win 82-86 games, take 3rd in the Central behind CLE and DET; they make a late August and September run when it is too late, but it gives hope for 2010 -Dotel is traded for a weak package at the deadline with the Sox knowing they won't offer arb after the season and Link takes his role; Dotel is the only meaningful player traded, but Betemit also goes as Lillibridge eats up his playing time one more: by the end of the season Jordan Danks has people wondering if he has a shot at making the team out of ST in 2010

I'd love to see that. If he's finally gotten over his foot issues then he could do well as a long man or UT kind of pitcher. Carrasco could use some competition at the very least. And if El Duque could make the team, well it's not like there aren't any horrible 2005 first round gross overdraft starting pitchers on the roster that could be released to clear a spot.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:09 PM) Alexei Ramirez/Beckham >>> Gonzalez (better and cheaper) Lillibridge >>> Gonzalez (cheaper, upside potential) It makes not a whole lot of sense....neither does Encarnacion, although at least we theoretically have more of a hole there (3B) than at SS. If it was going to be anyone, I would have thought Freel would be more of KW's type of player than Gonzalez. But I don't even think KW would pick up the phone to trade Gonzalez for Lillibridge straight up. Some team in need of a bat like the Dodgers, Reds or Angels will come calling with a better deal. KW can wait until Abreu/Dunn and Manny Ramirez are off the market. There's even talk of Griffey, Jr., signing with the Mets for less than $1 million... You're missing the point. The idea wouldn't be to use the guy as a starter. Gonzalez is the only contract they have that they've added prior to Jocketty taking over that would fit as far as making salaries work. The Reds have said that they don't have the money to take on a contract the size of Dye's. That means something has to happen to offset that salary if a deal is to be done. Obviously Lilli is better. We have Beckham who I believe Ozzie just said will likely have to switch positions. He'll be at 2B with Alexei at SS, then there's Dayan and Fields for third. Lilli might be available in the right deal, same with Getz, if the Sox are a lot higher on the other guys. The point is, it's like an NBA salary cap thing. You take one garbage player on an expiring contract and then add him to a bunch of very good players and then you deal for a star when you get the salaries to come out the right way. Dealing Gonzalez would represent a savings for the Reds only, not something good for the Sox. In return the Sox would then want enough in the prospect department to make taking on the contract worth it and to also offset the value of Lillibridge's talents. Again, just an idea that is probably a longshot, but the Reds don't have a SS and Lilli could be a guy they'd target in a deal with us anyway.

QUOTE (scenario @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:05 PM) So... let's NOT make their problem our problem. Why would that be a problem? In order to move a big contract and get a very good prospect in return we'll have to take on a bad contract. Paying some guy $4M to sit on the bench isn't really a problem, in fact, we did it last year. Besides, why would you rather eat about $4M of Dye's contract when you could take on a serviceable UT player at that amount instead? If the Reds can only commit $7M to an OF then something has to happen to offset that salary if Cincy is indeed where Dye is headed.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 11:36 AM) That sounds about right. IIRC the Reds supposedly had $7-8 million they were saving to acquire a bat. Abreu probably doesn't want to play there, he can play for the same money with the Sox and Dye goes to Cincinatti with cash for prospects and/ or the train wreck named Homer Bailey. The White Sox payroll remains the same, and in essence they trade Dye for Abreu and prospects. That's if this all is true. Levine said nothing is immenent, which probably means a press conference is about to be scheduled. That sounds possible. Another scenario, and it's admittedly a longshot IMO, is Alex Gonzalez coming here. I thought that when we picked up Lilli it might be a precursor to a Dye deal because the Reds need a SS who doesn't suck. Gonzalez makes $5.375M with a $500K buyout. If the Sox did something like Dye + Lillibridge ($11.8M) for Alex Gonzalez, Homer Bailey, $1M cash, and about 2 good prospects then the salary would work (about $4.8M). The Reds would add $7M while the Sox would clear $7M. It seems like the Sox really like Lilli though and it seems like Bailey is just enough alone to get Dye, so those prospects would have to be really good, and I don't know what the Reds would be able to offer. Dickerson certainly doesn't fit that description.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 11:03 AM) Another variation/permutation: Konerko for Figgins (net $7 million) Dunn signed for 1B (lose $7 million?) Abreu signed (lose $8 million) Dye traded for young pitching (Bailey/Adenhart, saving $11.5 million) Marti/Looper/Wolf signed as 5th=$3.5 million The only problem is that you overweigh with lefties almost....strange, after we've been such a righty-dominated team for so long, to think of a line-up that goes out there with as many as five or six (if you include AJ and Getz). That would also save the White Sox money. Arguably, you might even have enough left over to add Marti/Looper/Wolf as your 4th/5th. ($3.5 million) Net payroll addition=ZERO I doubt anyone talks Paulie at his salary until he rebounds. I think he will, and I could see how people in other organizations would view Paulie as a likely rebound candidate also, but the fact is he's had two bad years in a row. IMO Paulie on the open market would be lucky to fetch $7M guaranteed. Also, the Braves and Reds are the teams that we've had the deepest discussions with regarding Dye, at least in terms of what has been reported, but it appears neither team has the money to spend ATM. We'd have to take on salary I think. The Angels though are confusing. They have prospects to fill in at 1B and 3B, but do they go that route or continue to block them? Plus there don't seem to be any OF openings either after signing Rivera. They have Torii in CF, and at DH/LF/RF they've got Vladdy, Rivera, Willits, and GMJ. Dye would be an upgrade in a corner, but since Vladdy will play every day somewhere, that leaves one spot for 3 players. Do they send GMJ to the bench and still pay that salary? He's the weakest link.