Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 12:50 PM) You may not like Anderson/Owens and Getz/Lillibridge/Nix, but if the reality is we don't have the money to make a move on Furcal or Hudson barring a trade of another highly salaried player, the choices are between: SS Lexi CF Anderson Owens 2b G/L/N versus CF Lexi SS Getz 2b Lillibridge/Nix or 2b Lexi CF Anderson Owens SS Getz I'd take the first option with Alexei at short, Getz at second, Anderson in CF. Lillibridge would play all three as a utility man and Owens would be playing for the Pirates.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 04:26 PM) Awesome. It doesn't even seem like the guy realizes his leg breaks, but then he goes to step backwards on it, and whoops! That is definitely NOT awesome. I couldn't even watch that. Now, the gigantic egg thing on Brandon Wolff that resulted from those 98593847593847593845 unanswered Ben Saunders knees, that WAS awesome. I guess you could also say Kos' KO was awesome, but I didn't really think so. Kos is one of my favorite WW's, but so is Zenko, so that was hard for me to watch.

I'll also add a theory of mine: the main reason there is some apprehension about acquiring Bailey is because when many of us look at that deal from the Reds point of view, we say to ourselves "There's no way I do that deal unless the kid is hurt." It's hard to imagine giving up on a kid that talented for any other reason, but really, that could be the case. Some organizations do highly questionable or outrageously stupid things, like hire Dusty Baker as a manager for instance.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 10:25 PM) What team are you the scout for? You don't have to be a pro scout to know a little something about what you're looking at, just like you don't have to be a GM in MLB to provide an opinion on a trade or a potential trade.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 09:12 PM) WSF101 saw the same Bailey starts for the Reds that I did. His stuff was extremely underwhelming in those games. There could be a lot of reasons for that though. I've read everything from the Reds taking his fastball away from him, to the Reds tweaking his mechanics, to the Reds changing his repertoire as a whole by eliminating his curveball and adding or subtracting who knows what else, so overall that's not important. The only things that are important are 1) the accuracy of the reports that had him sitting 93-96 late in the season, and 2) his health. If the reports of his velocity coming back are true, and he was sitting in that range comfortably as was stated, and if he passes a full physical, then the kid is worth a shot. Teams generally don't give up guys with as much talent as Bailey at such a young age without serious, major injuries occurring. If Homer Bailey checks out, and his velocity is there, then this is one of those deals that you make in video games but you can't make in real life, and this is potentially one of those deals that you look back on years from now and say, "WTF were the Reds thinking?" Therefore, you should make the deal. Especially if the Sox can sign a corner OF to replace Dye without having to give up a draft pick in the process. I love Dye and he's one of my favorite players I've ever seen on any team, but that's just a no-brainer.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 06:01 PM) They would easily win their division with that rotation even with the injuries to Harden and the regression of Dempster. You could get rid of ANYONE in your lineup for Peavy and still go to the playoffs. I would easily trade every prospect and ANY position player for Peavy. And If I was the Padres, I ask for Soto. I wouldn't. They won't even trade Mark DeRosa for God sakes, so I wouldn't even bother. The Cubs are like the foil of the Orioles: two s***ty organizations full of losers with losing attitudes who make poor baseball decisions on a regular basis, and follow every step forward with two more back. The difference is, the Cubs are the team with the crazy payroll supported by dimwits from Iowa on business trips who still think that Fookie Dome guy is good because word hasn't gotten back to Cowtip yet that he actually sucks, meanwhile the Orioles play in what is typically the toughest division in all of baseball and have payroll concerns because their fanbase cares about winning and does not show up to watch them get beaten up. Ugh. /rant. But anyway, it looks like Towers thought the Braves would stick in and bid against themselves in order to beat all those *great* Cub offers. Well, Towers isn't Borass and the Braves aren't the Rangers, so that didn't work. I think what happened is he actually f***ed himself into having to take the Cubs s***ty offer, but the laugher here is that the Cubs own f***ing stupidity is what is saving his ass. I mean, we're talking about Jake the Pussy here, one of the best pitchers in baseball. If Jake the Pussy wants to play for you so bad that he'll sing a song about it, and if you can get him for a bunch of crap, then you f***ing do it.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 04:25 PM) When will we know if they are definitely going to consider it? The article said they were definitely considering it, or at least that can reasonably be implied. It says they "plan to explore the trade potential" for both players, so sounds like a bit more than possible consideration. Basically that means that the Angels have decided they will place a call, and they have also decided which number they will dial and for what reasons. That's the "plan" part. Next they will "explore," meaning a telephone will be located and a route will be drawn to it. They'll then gather provisions and take the journey. Once they reach the telephone, dial the number, and reach the desired party, they will then discuss the "trade potential," i.e. if trades are possible and what must be done in order to complete them. So yes, they have definitely considered this, at least according to the author of this article, who may or may not be full of s***. Edit: Maybe the thread title should be changed to "Angels Have Definitely Considered Trading For Dye & Paulie."

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 04:10 PM) If you trade Paulie and not Dye then you sign Adam Dunn to play 1B. Didn't the Reds already think of that and then come to the conclusion that Dunn doesn't have the hands to play 1B? Dye, if he's kept, would actually make a pretty good 1B. And Fields is mentioned, but I'd imagine the Sox would try him in LF again before they'd put him at 1B and waste his second greatest tool, which is his arm.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 03:35 PM) I would be willing to deal Paulie for a young starting pitcher and Kendry Morales. Weaver would be the most likely as I think the Angels like him the least out of the guys currently slated in the rotation. Adenhart is pretty valuable and I'd imagine he'd be untouchable but you might be able to get him if the Angels were desperate enough. Figgins could also be doable but he's older, relies on speed, has injury issues and is due to become a free agent so I think targeting a pitcher would make a bit more sense. You'd also probably be able to pick up Willits and take a chance. Agree with this and I'd mainly want Figgins for the Type A compensation if he were included. I like where the Sox have been going and I hope they do trade both Dye and Paulie, although that is unlikely. Thome will come off the books after 2009 and after 2010 all three of Dye, Paulie, and Thome would be gone, so I'd rather take the approach of getting prospects for them now so that by the time 2010 comes we may already be contenders with more youth coming up the pipeline. If the Sox then back that up with an Abreu or Dunn signing which doesn't cost draft picks we'd make some real gains IMO.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 03:22 PM) i really wish we had dealt crede for ervin santana when we had the chance. i wished at that time that the trade be completed... to no avail. when ervin was a rookie i saw him shut out the sox in a complete game at angels stadium. great game... i knew then he was gonna be good. i have a great eye for talent. thats why i want baley. =) I hoped for the same thing. There was a blurb in an article, I think by Phil Rogers so take it with a grain of salt, about Kenny denying Santana and Figgins for Crede. You always hear the expression (especially from Hawk) that "Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make." Well, that's a case where that saying holds true, just not in the intended fashion.

Have to think Adenhart is off the block, but Weaver is a potential get. Kendry Morales should be available in a Paulie deal, and of course there is Figgins I guess. At this point I'd say no to Figgins and ask for prospects. Jordan Walden may be a target of KW.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-t...ns&expire=1

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 11:53 AM) He was a product of an over-hyped Double AA team with the Dodgers. This was back when people realized that Logan White was really good at his job. Jackson and a SS named Joel Guzman were placed alongside the likes of Martin and Kemp, but have never developed into the players they were supposed to be. I don't know how you can say Jackson is so overrated and then talk about Kemp who is probably the most overrated player on this entire board. Yeah he's a very good player with huge potential and I'd love to have him, but it's not like he didn't post an OPS of .799 last year and K 153 times while hitting .260/.309/.416 against RHP. Jackson is 24 and has done nothing but improve. No he's not an ace yet, and he may never be, but he's a solid #4/#5 type starter with the upside of an ace who IMO is pretty likely to turn into a good #3. I have no idea how some people can believe that pitchers stop developing at the age of 24. This is the second low-cost, high-upside, MLB-ready pitcher that over the last half year I really wanted and that KW has allowed his divisional foes to acquire for next to nothing. Jackson was worth the risk and is much more so than Marquez and CR/AP, and the same thing can be said about Anthony Reyes, who the Indians picked up for next to nothing.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 11:46 AM) Jackson has proven he f***ing sucks. Why do people still like him. He was the "next" Pedro like 7 years ago. He as 17 7 years ago.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 01:36 PM) Of course it's off, the deal was NEVER on. This whole thing has been a bull s*** ploy by the Padres in order to try and get Peavy's value up. It's obviously not working, but that is what they are doing. The Cubs do not have the financial or personnel resources to get this deal done, regardless of what their idiot fans or idiot Cub loving reporters like Mr. Carpet Bomber Bruce Levine fasely think. Just like the Brian Roberts stuff last offseason, this whole thing has been a laughable farce. I think there were rumors of the Cubs offering like Gallagher, Marshall, Ceda, and Pie for Roberts last year. I don't know if that was true, but if it was, the O's were f***ing retards to pass that up. As for Peavy, I'm glad the Pads have (so far) decided against giving him away for Vitters and scraps. Towers should call up Frank Wren and apologize to him for bringing in the Cubs in order to get him to bid against himself. Obviously that did not work because the Braves aren't total idiots. Atlanta still has the talent to make a deal if they can take on the salary.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 01:00 PM) Players signing out of college have 5 seasons, guys out of high school have 7 seasons before free agency. So, a AAA team cannot select someone in the rule 5 draft who played in AAA? They have to be at least AA? If that's so, then the only point in a major league team selecting someone would be if that player was in AAA, otherwise, if he never made it above AA they can obtain him via minor league draft. Right? I'm pretty sure that's how it works, but with the Major League portion you can select anyone from any level so long as they have the number of seasons to be eligible out of the draft. It seems like the minor league portion is more for organizational players and the Major League phase is more for actual prospects. Edit: this is from Wikipedia So maybe the cost is the reason more players aren't selected in the minor league portions. The Major League phase gets the prospects and the other phases would rather not spend extra money on guys close to minor league free agency.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 12:40 PM) What are the rules for the minors part of the draft? Same age/time rules I assume, but what about the roster part. If a minor league team takes a player from another team, say if the Barons took a guy, are they required to keep the guy on the baron's roster the whole season or eles return him? I believe the rules are that, for the Double A portion, you have guys who have been in a system for 3-4 years and have never risen above A+ ball. That gives them a chance to move up. With Triple A portion I think it's the same thing except for guys who haven't risen above Double A. And I think in either case I think they have to stick on the roster for a full year or else move up. But I'm not sure of that. Edit: Either way it doesn't seem like the minor league phase is all that important because don't these guys become minor league free agents after 5 seasons anyway?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 11:13 AM) Carrasco is useful even if he puts up an ERA of 4.5 in that right now, he's our best long-man out of the bullpen. Assuming Richard/Poreda are treated as Ozzie's 2nd lefty, they're not going to be used very often to pitch 3+ innings. For a game where one of our youngish starters implodes or a game that goes extras, if all Carrasco does is go 5 innings and give up 2-3 runs, that's more than tolerable, because he gave you 5 innings. Agree with this. Carrasco was a key component of our pen last year and deserves to stick around. We need at least one guy like that, meaning someone who can throw the damn ball over the plate when all our upside projects are going 3-0 on everyone. Carrasco was out of place when he was briefly a setup man for us, but I'd feel confident going to him in blowout and late extra inning situations. Obviously in a perfect world I'd prefer someone with better stuff, but that's not happening given the price of even halfway decent bullpen arms.

QUOTE (R.J. @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 11:55 AM) but Jerry Owens is our leadoff hitter - he's FAST! he's a GRINDER! he has THEFIRE&THEPASSION! If we plan to compete this year then Broadway won't last the season on the 40 man. The kid's just not a major leaguer. I hope you're right. I don't want to see him again, ever. The guy had one good smoke-and-mirrors Sonnanstart during a period when we really needed it, then he got sent right back down afterwards, and that's because he sucks.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 11:53 AM) It's looking more and more like Jerry Owens will be your starting CF and leadoff man next year. Good lord I hope not.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 12:31 PM) Sorry to see D-Rod go. Good pitcher, good swingman. Gets a lot of K's and groundballs. The good news is that he can come back if Tampa doesn't keep him, just like Fernando Hernandez last year. Ricardo Nanita...sigh...3 years as a Baron. He will be missed, hustled his butt off, could hit lefties better than righties, could play all three outfield spots. I just hope he gets a shot at AAA, I couldn't understand why he was never promoted while he was with the White Sox. Never saw Jason Rice. Valido... Valido... Valido.. Now he can infuriate the fans in Bowie or Norfolk. 3 years as a Baron, if you don't count his midseason demotions in 2006 and 2007. Just maddening to watch. I actually saw him hit a homerun last year. I know...UFO's, Bigfoot, Chupacabra, a Valido homerun...which one have you seen? Don't let the door hit you on the a$$ on the way out, Rob. I've seen a UFO. Never even a Valido basehit though, let alone a homer.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 11:46 AM) Trade Dye for Bailey straight up and sign Abreu and that would be 39. And that's not taking in to account adding any additional folks to the roster, i.e. Beckham or Poreda. (although pretty much everyone else but them and Viciedo that I think might be up this year is already there). If you add a backup catcher then that is 40. Still, Jerry Owens and Lance Broadway are both unnecessarily on this roster and it makes my skin crawl. They could have added someone with those spots. Or, if they didn't think anyone in the draft was worthy of a roster spot, then they could have called a press conference to announce that Owens and Broadway aren't either and have been traded to Japan.

No pick, no surprise. Sox pass on Morlan. Great. All the Sox had to do was drop Broadway from the goddamn roster and return Morlan to the Rays if he couldn't make the team out of ST, but I guess that's too much to ask.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 06:01 PM) He hit .280 last year with 40 SB's and an average (.330) OBP. When you factor in salary and his left-fielderness, Owens >>> Pierre. When you look entirely at baseball ability, track record, and accomplishments, Pierre >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Owens However, just because Pierre >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Owens does not mean Pierre is any good. Owens is just really bad, like he's better than Joey Gathright, but he's worse than Emil Brown, and he's 1/10 the player Mark Teahen is, and Mark Teahen also sucks. Basically Owens is better because he's easy to DFA and that's it.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 03:08 PM) is it just me, or was this post a tasteless attempt at humor ala 9/11? Kind of. I was looking at the s***ty draft and realized it occurred exactly one month prior to the 07/07 bombings. But I was going to make the thread anyway because I don't want Broadway on the 40-man roster anymore.