Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 07:57 PM) I really think he would work great for the Sox. Even last year, which was obviously a down year for him, he managed a +.370 OBP. The guy can mash. He'd be cheap and could probably be had for Linebrink, leaving us money to get another OF (I dont think Bradley in the OF would work at all). He would be such a steal if the Cubs paid a large chunk or if they swapped contracts. The Cubs are very talented at throwing players under the bus, what with having their own newspaper. It appears a lot of people here ate it up. The Cubs scapegoated the hell out of him. The organization signed him to a stupid contract, asked him to do stuff he's not good at, and then blamed him when the whole team sucked. Meanwhile, Alfonso Soriano is doing his best impression of Vernon Wells and nobody is trying to run him out of town. In an NL environment Wells is actually a better contract IMO, and if I ran the Cubs I'd try to trade Soriano for Wells straight up. Wells at least can play CF now and move to RF later, plus he's 3 years younger. Wells' deal is the same length and only $8.5M more over that span. Imagine how bad Soriano - who is paid through the age of 38 - will be on defense once he loses some make-up speed. Imagine how much he's going to K once his bat slows down. He doesn't walk much, so that doesn't help. He doesn't have the hands to play 1B. He's pretty close to being a DH now and he's still got 5 years remaining on his deal. As bad as Wells' deal is, at least Wells may be able to provide *some* value on the field in the latter years of his contract.

What about trading Linebrink to the D'backs for Chris Snyder? The salaries are very close: Linebrink: 10:$5M, 11:$5.5M Snyder: 10:$4.75M, 11:$5.75M, 12:$6.75M club option ($0.75M buyout) Snyder becomes the righty backup catcher to AJ, and he has some pop to go with it. The Sox save 250K. Then they could take that savings and add it to the $1M they're probably offering Redmond or whoever else and give it to Carrasco. Bullpen: Jenks CL Thornton LSU Putz RSU Pena righty specialist Williams lefty specialist Hudson MR Carrasco LR Snyder > Redmond, Carrasco > Linebrink

QUOTE (The Critic @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 12:42 PM) If this means Carrasco's out, I don't like it. If DJ's still around, this signing is fine. Agree.

QUOTE (striker62704 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 12:53 PM) I likey. Now trade Linebrink for Gardner. Putz video highlights http://mlb.mlb.com/search/media.jsp?text=p...amp;x=0&y=0 Kenny would deserve a statue if he could pull that off.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 11:13 AM) Wow. He must be asking for a crazy number or something. At worst, you think they could have traded him for something. I doubt he's asking for any more than what the Sox will pay Tony Pena. It's probably the Sox trying to cut corners on LR once again, which is just stupid. You simply can't put all your faith in 1-inning relievers and then hope some s***ty rookie (Torres, Hynick, Marquez, etc.) is going to bail you out if you need innings. And there's no way the Sox should look at Hudson as a LR option either. If Hudson is in the pen he belongs in a setup role or at least building up towards a setup role since he's probably better than Pena and Linebrink right now.

The Sox better not do this. I don't understand how they could even think of doing this. If the decision is between Jenks and say Putz + Carrasco, it's a damn easy decision to make IMO.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 03:05 PM) yes, but the Sox own 25% of a cable network and even though their the 2nd team in Chicago, they're still in the 3rd largest media market in the U.S., which is why they are consistently above the middle of the pack in payroll They also have that Silver Chalice thing they're starting, so hopefully that helps out too.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 03:00 PM) If you go by attendance, the White Sox should actually be a middle of the road salary team, not top 5 or so like we are. Exactly. The Sox IMO could sustain a pretty high payroll, but they need to consistently run out good teams first, which means don't enter a season with a bunch of rookies and reclamation projects and then complain about attendance later on. Hopefully we're building a core that will allow the Sox to build towards a consistently high payroll in the near future.

I hope they sign Pods. Not that I want Pods to fail, but I don't see him replicating 2009 and if there's any team I want to see end up with another bad fielder on a bad contract it's the Cubs. I'll feel bad for Scotty if it happens though, but at least he'll get his money. The Cubs should give him something like 3/$24M for absolutely no reason.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 01:47 PM) I'll start: The New Testament audio book narrated by Gilbert Gottfried That would be a fantastic gift IMO.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 01:58 PM) Lifetime Movie Network box set of every single movie they've produced. Only 6 posts into the thread and the ultimate winner has already been decided. There is simply no way to top this.

There are a lot of questions about Jose Martinez that we'd all need answers to before we could even consider him a prospect at this point. I wish the people who get to interview types like Hahn, Kenny, Laumann, Bell, etc. would ask questions more like, "what's up with Jose Martinez's health?" or "why did Upchurch blow last year," or "how is Santos Rodriguez's secondary stuff coming along?" or "is there anyone especially interesting in the DSL?" etc. instead of the same old s*** like, "what are your thoughts on Hudson?" "Oh, well we like him a lot." No s***.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 10, 2009 -> 02:10 PM) He'll probably go to the Royals. Then we'll get Coco Crisp so the Sox and Royals will continue to share each others' players with less than stellar results. It's amazing how the Tigers now are deciding to go cheap. Our division will be the cheapskate division. I would think our only competition in the future on paper should come from Minnie since we probably will at least be spending the most of all teams in our division and you would think our great starting rotation should keep us competitive for years to come. Hopefully that new ballpark will end the Minnie mystique (in our division; not in playoffs of course where they suck). It's not much of a decision on their part. Their owner still really wants to win and has no problem spending for it, but the Tigers are overloaded with bad contracts and the Detroit area has been slammed. Unless the front office can unload bad deals without taking on equal monetary commitments, which is extremely unlikely, the Tigers pretty much have to build for 2011.

How about an Andruw Jones-type deal, a $500K base and another $1-1.5M in incentives? When he's healthy he can be very good.

I like this deal for both teams. Texas gets the better end of the deal with a $3M Mike Lowell for Max Ramirez, who is a good prospect, but is definitely expendable for such a cheap extra bat. This is the type of deal that, along with the development of some pitching, could put them in contention all year. Assuming Ray gets about $1.5M or so in arb and the Lowell deal goes through, they've essentially traded Millwood + Ramirez for Ray, Harden, and Lowell while only increasing the payroll by about $2.8M from where they were. The other benefit is that because of the cash received on Lowell, if the Rangers do fall out of it, all 3 players could garner interest in July, so there's the potential of turning Millwood + Ramirez into a bunch of prospects that those guys would have never been worth on their own. Really nice offseason so far for Daniels. For Boston, Lowell sucks at 3B even though he's won a few gold gloves, and they understandably wanted some better defense in the infield. Lowell was a sunk cost so they had to eat quite a bit to get anything for him as it is, and if you're Boston, that's not a huge deal. The only concern for them IMO is how many years they give Beltre (if that's the follow-up move). If they go 4+ on Beltre it's a bad move I think.

I love what Texas has been able to do today. They pick up a reliever, eat $3M of Millwood's deal to save $9M, then pick up Harden with an option year, and they actually save money in the process.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 06:36 PM) I wouldnt mind kicking the tires on Mahay. Me either. He should come on a low base, too, and who knows, possibly even on a minor league contract. Williams definitely needs some competition if nothing else.

Very nice piece. If nothing else it'll be fun watching him score knockdowns in Spring Training. Edit: Can you imagine a SS game where we start Harrell for 3, then go to Santos for 2, then Pena for 1, then Jones for 1, then Santeliz for 1, then Luis for 1? That would be like the Royal Rumble.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 06:15 PM) This moves reminds me of bringing in Flash Gordon. Good call.

If the price is right then I'd love this move. Another lefty is needed though if this does mean the end of Jenks since we can't count on Putz to close right out of the gate, even if he is perfectly healthy.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 05:57 PM) We know how Beane values defense. Oakland would let him play shortstop if he agreed to what they could pay him. I don't know if I'd go that far. They paid Ellis who is pretty much a glove man when they could have let him bolt and they've been running out much better OF defenses than we have been for quite a while. When's the last time the A's had an everyday CF as bad as Pods or a RF as bad as Dye?

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 05:05 PM) The sox can't afford to have another defensive hole in the OF to replace Dye like Pods would be. IMO, the best bet is to go with Crisp in LF, and have Quentin take over in RF. Crisp should get a low base salary with decent incentives. He needs to prove he's healthy and can take a 1 yr hit salary wise. Crisp isn't ideal. But better than some other options out there. I haven't heard Randy Winn's name being mentioned anywhere. He was hurt last year but had hit over .300 the 2 prior years. And he plays above avg. defense in RF, and LF. Great suggestion. I am 10000000% behind this idea and I think we should sign him right now. He should come cheap enough to where we can still explore DH options, plus he can lead off, and he can give us a huge defensive boost in RF over Dye. He should also come on a 1-year deal, meaning we don't have to sign some s*** defender for 2 years who ends up blocking Jordan Danks. If Winn is healthy I want him here. Also, check out the consistency of Winn's career: vs. RHP: .289/.348/.417/.765 vs. LHP: .280/.332/.426/.758 Home: .285/.344/.412/.755 Away: .287/.344/.425/.769 1st half: .278/.340/.401/.724 2nd half: .295/.349/.439/.788 March/April: .268/.331/.380/.712 May: .294/.356/.425/.781 June: .271/.333/.391/.724 July: .303/.355/.434/.788 August: .283/.334/.410/.743 September/October: .295/.356/.467/.823 2009 was a bad year for him cumulatively, but in 472 PA he still hit .292/.354/.397/.751 vs. RHP. 2009 appears to have been an aberration vs. LHP, but if it's not, a Winn/Kotsay lead-off platoon is definitely an option. Great f***ing suggestion. Sign me up.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 01:52 PM) Jones doesn't fill a major hole on the club. He isn't an every-day player until he proves otherwise. Crisp would play a lot and the club most definitely has room for him. Kotsay will get at-bats, most likely at DH and in the field, but there are plenty of at-bats to go around when your DH can play 1-2 games a week in the field. Regardless of how you see Jones, we still signed the guy to play. He isn't going to be a once or twice per week kind of player and I doubt a guy who still feels he can start would have signed so cheaply unless he was told there would be playing time in his future. If we signed Crisp too, I think we'd have some real playing time issues. The best kind of scenario I can draw up would be something like this: LF: Crisp - 3 days per week Matsui - 2 days per week Jones - 1 day per week Kotsay - 1 day per week RF: Quentin - 5 days per week Kotsay - 1 day per week Jones - 1 day per week CF: Rios - 6 days per week Crisp - 1 day per week DH: Matsui - 4 days per week Konerko - 1 day per week Quentin - 1 day per week Jones - 1 day per week 1B: Konerko - 5 days per week Kotsay - 2 days per week Under this kind of scheme, Quentin plays 6/7, Konerko plays 6/7, Rios plays 6/7, Matsui plays 6/7, Crisp plays 4/7, Kotsay plays 4/7, Jones plays 3/7. That all works out fine during 12-14 game stretches, but it doesn't account for off-days when everyone gets a rest, so inevitably we'd find ourselves in a spot where players like Jones and Kotsay aren't getting more than a day or two max, and I really don't think those players will be happy with that. And the above scenario also considers Crisp as a part-time player more or less, and I think he's going to look for a starting job. On top of all that, we've got basically 3 outfielders in Jones, Kotsay, and Crisp taking up 1 spot. Adding a backup catcher, that means that if we want a 12-man pitching staff, we can't add anyone else to the roster. So now Vizquel is our only backup IF and that means that he should be expected to also play 3 days per week backing up Beckham, Alexei, and Teahen. The reason that is dangerous is because if there's ever any kind of emergency we'll have to take someone off the roster and call up another IF, even if the player who is hurt doesn't hit the DL. Otherwise we'd have to put corner OF'ers in skill positions. This simply won't work unless we go with 11 pitchers, which the Sox don't seem to be planning on doing. Even then, there's playing time issues.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) I realize it isn't an ideal scenario. But the Sox also want to keep Quentin, Konerko and AJ fresh and the best way to do that might be suffering a bit on defense once or twice a week in the outfield. It is also important to know that if a significant injury were to occur that you have a guy that could slide into the outfield and help if needed. Injuries are a part of the game and to survive a 162 game season it is important to have flexibility. Clearly it would be a massive mistake to start Matsui regularly in the outfield. However, if it is done on occasions throughout the season it wouldn't be a major issue and in the playoffs you don't have to worry as much about the rest so Matsui would clearly stay at DH in those instances, but again, knowing he could play in the field still gives you the option to utilize one of your better offensive bats when you play in NL parks. For example, if Crisp starts 5 or 6 days a week in left, the club would clearly be downgrading its offense, but defensively, they will have upgraded significantly (Crisp >>>> Pods and Quentin in RF should be >>> Dye). I don't know how much of an upgrade Quentin will be to Dye though to be honest since Quentin has clearly been slowed by his injury. Bottom line, there is nothing wrong with occasionally putting Matsui in the field. Going into opening day with him as our everyday starter in the outfield, now that would be a bad idea. I also don't think Crisp is the perfect option, but given the resources the club has and if his shoulder his heatlhy, I would be accepting of him. The Sox already have Jones and Kotsay to keep everyone fresh, and there wouldn't be enough playing time to add Crisp to the picture as well. Matsui in the OF would be nothing but a hindrance. The other thing is, if they add Matsui now they have 5 players for 4 spots, (Matsui, Rios, Quentin, Kotsay, Jones) and only Rios belongs in CF. How excited would people be about occasionally seeing OF setups like Matsui-Jones-Quentin? That's just freaking abysmal. We may as well just trade all our SP since we'll be asking them to keep the ball in the infield all game. The Sox should draw a line in the sand with Matsui. I think he's an excellent hitter and would be a great fit here as a full-time DH, but if he wants to play LF then no way.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Dec 9, 2009 -> 10:07 AM) It's not that simple though. Crawford is going to become real expensive real quick, while Carlos will be cheaper and under our control longer and has the higher upside. I don't feel this is a good unless the Sox are almost positive CQ will never be able to stay healthy. Good post. Also, a deal like this would send the signals that, 1) the lead-off spot is our biggest need, and 2) the success of our offense in 2009 is in some way explicitly linked to the capabilities of our lead-off hitter. I don't know how anyone can go from losing Dye and Thome, plus factoring in possible regression for Paulie, and then say that our biggest need on offense is a lead-off hitter. I mean, I understand that Dye and Thome have regressed and that their 2009 production can be replaced without a whole lot of difficulty, but that's not the issue. The issue is we're trying to improve upon last year's offense which was terrible, which means we should be trying to replace earlier versions of the Dye and Thome who really helped us out, not just the 2009 versions. If we just replace the '09 versions then we're still going to struggle to score runs. And lastly, even if we did for some reason want to move Quentin for a lead-off hitter, why a $10M one on the cusp of free agency who is likely to demand the type of contract that historically we never give out? If we're scared to offer 4/$36M to Figgins then I really doubt we'll be offering 6/$96M to Crawford. The only virtual certainty is Type A comp, and we couldn't reasonably expect contributions from 2 players drafted in June 2011 until at least 2013, if ever. If we had to move Carlos for a somewhat proven lead-off guy, at the very least look at someone like Rajai Davis, Julio Borbon, Michael Bourn, etc. in a package with other players. Or maybe even offer Quentin to the Red Sox for Ellsbury and more. If we absolutely had to trade CQ there are about a billion better ideas than Carl Crawford, and most of them don't even involve lead-off hitters in the first place. I seriously question the source of this rumor and IMO it's even worse than the Halladay one.