Kenny Hates Prospects

My guess is Kenny has contacted the Padres, expressed his interest, and tried to get a feel from the Padres as to exactly what they will be looking for in return. The teams have probably exchanged a few names that would make for a starting point, and the Padres probably responded with "we'll get back to you," as they're going to shop every offer. Nothing is dead at all. Things will pick up over the winter meetings (Dec. 7-10) and if Gonzalez is dealt (which it looks like he will be) he'll probably get moved either at the winter meetings or shortly afterwards, because Gonzalez will be the Padres' #1 priority. After they do the Gonzalez deal they'll be able to see what pieces they have and when/where those pieces fit into the 2010 picture, and then they'll be able to work on other moves. So anyway, don't expect anything on this for at least about 2 weeks.

I would do Linebrink + prospect(s) for Cordero and then trade Jenks, if that was a possibility. Cordero would make about as much as Linebrink + Jenks together this season, but Jenks would make more in 2011, so we could save some cash in 2011 that way while ditching Linebrink. I'd do Wood for Linebrink also if the Indians don't mind making a bad contract swap with a division rival while out of contention. It would be for the same reason as above. We trade Jenks for prospects, we ditch Linebrink, and we save money. There's a clause in Wood's deal that guarantees his 2011 option based on games finished, so that would probably be pretty scary to the Indians.

QUOTE (Socal Cid @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 06:08 PM) How is Alex Rios excluded? I mentioned above how I excluded deals that aren't going to be traded because the teams themselves don't think they are bad. Rios falls under that umbrella. We wouldn't have claimed the contract if we felt it was a bad one.

There's some interesting stuff in this little article on MMA Junkie: The minor league concept sounds like a nice idea. It may hurt some of the local shows, but in the long run it would be great for both Zuffa (based in Vegas) and Strikeforce (based in San Jose) to have so much young talent to check out within a short distance from the main offices. My only major concern would be that underhanded s*** that Jeremy Lappen is supposedly involved in where he's working to push the CSAC to allow amateurs to fight basically as pros, without the use of headgear and everything else, and without advertising the fights as amateur MMA. Hopefully this minor league organization is all pro and no amateur, because if the program is sucessful, going the amateur route could run out a few local promotions who highlight pro fighters and thereby push some of the pros out of the area. But a minor league setup like this would really help out a lot of young fighters who just turned pro by giving them a stage to showcase themselves on, and with the salary caps given, it would still allow for local promotions who use veterans of the bigger shows to exist because those guys aren't going to sign for such measly figures. Also, if this does come to fruition, hopefully the organization itself will put some of the profits into a collection to help pay medical costs.

Here's a list of most of the bad contracts in baseball. I left off bad deals that teams obviously aren't going to want to trade, like Torii Hunter, Jeter, etc. as well as bad deals where the trading team has already eaten a large portion of salary, making the deal no longer a bad one (like Lugo for example). Of what is here, is there anything that makes sense for the Sox with Linebrink and Paulie? Is there anything that makes sense for another team? Some of these deals are better than others, but feel free to mix and match because they all suck. C: Jorge Posada 10:$13.1M, 11:$13.1M Chris Snyder 10:$4.75M, 11:$5.75M, 12:$6.75M club option ($0.75M buyout) 1B/DH: Travis Hafner 10:$11.5M, 11:$13M, 12:$13M, 13:$13M club option ($2.75M buyout) Todd Helton 10:$16.6M/year, 11:$19.1M, 12:$23M club option ($4.6M buyout) Paul Konerko 10: $12M Mike Lowell 10:$12M David Ortiz 10:$12.5M, 11:$12.5M club option (no buyout) Lyle Overbay 10:$7M 2B/SS: Luis Castillo 10:$6M, 11:$6M Mark Ellis 10:$5.5M, 11:$6M club option ($0.5M buyout) Christian Guzman 10:$8M Edgar Renteria 10:$9M, 11:$10.5M club option ($0.5M buyout) 3B: Eric Chavez 10:$12M, 11:$12.5M club option ($3M buyout) Brandon Inge 10:$6.6M Michael Young 10-13:$16M annually (total of $15M deferred) OF: Milton Bradley 10:$9M, 11:$12M Pat Burrell 10:$9M Eric Byrnes 10:$11M JD Drew 10:$14M, 11:$14M Kosuke Fukudome 10:$12.5M, 11:$13.5M, 12:$14M player option Carlos Guillen 10:$13M, 11:$13M Jose Guillen 10:$12M Carlos Lee 10:$18.5M, 11:$18.5M, 12:$18.5M Gary Matthews Jr 10:$11M, 11:$12M Magglio Ordonez 10:$18M club option ($3M buyout), 11:$15M club option (no buyout) Juan Pierre 10:$10M, 11:$8.5M Manny Ramirez 10:$20M (voidable) Aaron Rowand 10:$12M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M Alfonso Soriano 10-14:$18M annually Nick Swisher 10:$6.75M, 11:$9M, 12:$10.25M club option ($1M buyout) Willy Taveras 10:$4M Vernon Wells 10:$12.5M, 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M Chris Young 10:$3.25M, 11:$5M, 12:$7M, 13:$8.5M, 14:$11M club option ($1.5M buyout) SP: Bronson Arroyo 10:$11M, 11:$11M club option ($2M buyout) Jeremy Bonderman 10:$12.5M Aaron Cook 10:$9M, 11:$9.25M, 12:$11M mutual option ($0.5M buyout) Ryan Dempster 10:$12.5M, 11:$13.5M, 12:$14M player option Aaron Harang 10:$12.5M, 11:$12.75M ($2M buyout) Kyle Lohse 10:$8.875M, 11:$11.875M, 12:$11.875M Derek Lowe 10:$15M, 11:$15M, 12:$15M Kevin Millwood 10:$12M Jamie Moyer 10:$6.5M Oliver Perez 10:$12M, 11:$12M Nate Robertson 10:$10M Ervin Santana 10:$6M, 11:$8M, 12:$11.2M, 13:$13M club option ($1M buyout) Carlos Silva 10:$11.5M, 11:$11.5M, 12:$12M mutual option ($2M buyout) Jeff Suppan 10:$12.5M, 11:$12.75M club option ($2M buyout) Jake Westbrook 10:$11M Dontrelle Willis 10:$12M Carlos Zambrano 10:$17.875M, 11:$17.875M, 12:$18M, 13:$19.25M vesting player option Barry Zito 10:$18.5M, 11:$18.5M, 12:$19M, 13:$20M, 14:$18M club option ($7M buyout) RP: Francisco Cordero 10:$12M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M club option ($1M buyout) Kyle Farnsworth 10:$4.5M, 11:$5.25M club option ($0.5M buyout) Brad Lidge 10:$11.5M, 11:$11.5M, 12:$12.5M club option ($1.5M buyout) Scott Linebrink 10:$5M, 11:$5.5M Damaso Marte 10:$4M, 11:$4M, 12:$4M club option ($0.25M buyout) David Riske 09:$4.25M, 10:$4.5M, 11:$4.75M club option ($0.25M buyout) JC Romero 10:$4M, 11:$4.5M club option ($0.25M buyout) Kerry Wood 10:$10.5M, 11:$11M club option

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 03:47 PM) Rafael Betencourt is one of the most frustrating pitchers to watch, ever. Agree. Please no Betancourt.

Tito was kind of annoying again, but to his credit he had a long layoff, he came back from major surgery, and he still hung in there with a very tough opponent. I think he would have beaten Coleman and Forrest said something like that too IIRC. I'm mainly pissed about his post-fight press conference words because he didn't give much respect to Forrest at all by going on and on about how he thought he won. Tito had absolutely nothing in the 3rd, and you'd think someone who got embarrassed like that in one round of a 3-round fight would kind of, I dunno, not be such a prick about it? BTW I agree with the decision too, Forrest won and there is no reason for controversy. Very nice to see Rogerio get that big win. I don't know what was with Cane, he's much better than that, but I'm still happy to see Lil' Nog make an impact. I like Baroni too, but I still don't get why the UFC lets some guys walk and brings in some others. Like, how do you go from Tamdan McCrory to Phil Baroni? That's something Strikeforce, Sengoku, Dream, etc. would do. Amir looks improved but he didn't have a lot on those punches and he doesn't appear to have any killer instinct either. I'll hold out some hope though because I like his attitude and the fact that he subbed CB Dollaway twice (can't stand him). Also I was really impressed with Volkmann. Thiago is learning but he held his own against Fitch and got the fluke over Kos, so he looks like he belongs in the mix. Very impressed with Kos too. Not impressed by Goldie constantly going on about AJ's wrestling potentially nullifying Kos' wrestling. That's about it. Good card overall, but it still couldn't come close to making up for the loss of the Lesnar-Carwin bout.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 04:11 PM) Hopefully It's Austin Kearns. Actually... I could see this signing as well. I like that idea but I wouldn't want to give Kearns guaranteed money. A split contract would be nice however, or maybe something similar to what the Red Sox did with Smoltz??? where there was a specific date given for the player to be in the Majors, and if he wasn't up by that point the player became a FA.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 12:19 AM) The no trade clause is what really puzzled me. Meh, if he was any good the NTC wouldn't have been a problem. Everyone needs relievers and there has to be another team out of 29 others that he would accept a deal to.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 12:13 AM) You pretty much answered the reason yourself as to why linebrink was trotted out there. It's really as simple as coming down to the money. The excuse is the sox feel linebrink makes too much money to part ways with, whether you, myself, or anyone else agrees with their thought process. Afterall linebrink did make 4.5 last season with an additional 11.5 coming his way the next two seasons. There is no chance they dump him until next off-season, and that is still barring a significant increase in production. For better or worse, linebrink is still gonna get the ball in a white sox uniform. The linebrink signing was bad from the get go, and was quite unlike the sox, they sure as hell stumped me at the time. I agree, it was because of money owed, that's my point. The Sox have that opinion, but it still isn't defensible IMO because a sunk cost is a sunk cost. However, Ranger is on here reiterating the same things he said about Linebrink on the radio this last year, which is that Linebrink was playing because there was no one else to go to, and because there was no reason to expect prospects to perform better, and because in order for the Sox to have won they would have needed Linebrink to be good (very untrue), etc. I have a problem with that because it's wrong and a cop-out. The fans themselves understand that it's bulls*** to play a guy who isn't any good when you have better options available, no matter what the money situation is with that player, and if you're a radio host covering the team then you should be ballsy enough to admit that. Or even if you don't want to admit that over the air, at least don't come onto a Sox fan forum and chastise the fans over it again. He hasn't mentioned Linebrink specifically, but I know the callers he's alluding to because I heard many of them, and his responses were typically as ridiculous as the ones in this thread. But I do agree with you though, for better or worse the Sox are going to keep sending Linebrink out there, at least through 2010.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 11:12 PM) that was more of a prospect for prospect trade....although McCarthy was certainly at the time seen as more "big league ready" i meant, a package of prospects being traded for a Top 10-20 in the minors type, like Joe Borchard at the peak of his career with us, on Jon Rauch before the labrum injury Agree. With the McCarthy trade, Brandon had already spent one full season and part of a second in the Majors. The reasoning Jon Daniels gave at the time was that the biggest jump a prospect can make is from the minors to the Majors, and because Brandon had already made that jump successfully, Brandon was the surer bet. There are prospect-for-prospect deals quite often, but I've never seen a prospect-for-bevy of prospects deal happen, which is probably what it would take to get Jennings - if that was even an option, which I don't think it is. He'd be far and away our best prospect if we had him, and if that were the case, I couldn't imagine anyone here wanting to trade him for anyone we currently have in the minors. TB would laugh at us, and rightfully so.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 10:41 PM) What other options? This argument is terrible. We had pretty much no one in the pen who could get outs consistently, except for one, maybe two guys. Since you can't pitch the same two relievers everyday, it makes sense that you try to get the guy you are paying to be your set up man, back on track. You can argue that a garbage guy like Williams would be better, but when you look at this stats, you have to realize that most of his outings were when Ozzie was setting him up in much less stressful situations, and he STILL sucked. Linebrink was going out there in much tougher spots. Second half numbers for relievers and extra pitchers: Linebrink: 23.1 IP 8.49 ERA 2.186 WHIP .377/.433/.651/1.084 Williams: 17.2 IP 4.58 ERA 1.42 WHIP .206/.354/.333/.688; .269/.444/.423/.868 vs. RH only Dotel: 27.2 IP 3.25 ERA 1.373 WHIP .282/.372/.482/.854 Pena: 34 IP 3.44 ERA 1.324 WHIP .268/.306/.420/.726 Thornton: 36 IP 3.00 ERA 1.056 WHIP .222/.269/.311/.580 Jenks: 22.1 IP 4.03 ERA 1.522 WHIP .279/.354/.442/.795 Carrasco: 38.2 IP 3.72 ERA 1.345 WHIP .279/.315/.370/.685 Nunez: 5.2 IP 9.53 ERA 2.118 WHIP .370/.414/.630/1.043 Torres: 28.1 IP 6.04 ERA 1.659 WHIP .286/.386/.476 /.862 Hudson: 18.2 IP 3.38 ERA 1.339 WHIP .225/.317/.394/.711 The only person even close to Linebrink Planet as far as sucktitude was Jhonny Nunez in ONLY 5.2 IP, and I have no reason to believe Nunez in more innings would have done as bad or worse since the sample size is so small and Nunez does have talent. Everyone else aside from Nunez was considerably better than Linebrink, again, even Williams vs. RH. In fact, check out the numbers the 2007 bullpen staff put up and you find several players who had their asses shipped to Triple-A shortly afterwards just like what would have been the case with Linebrink had he not been owed so much f***ing money. This pissed off the fans because they - and rightfully so - do NOT agree with the idea of s***ty player + owed lots of money = playing time in a division race operating philosophy. The fact that he's here and he's joking about these supposedly stupid callers pisses me off, because they're not stupid, they're actually very observant Sox fans who want the same treatment across the board for every s***ty player, cheap contract or not. Also on your comment about Linebrink coming in regularly in more stressful situations... In August and September, Linebrink made 19 appearances. I don't know what you'd define as a stressful situation, but of those 19 appearances, 11 were during games where there was a 2-run swing in the score or less, and in that span he gave up 12 earned runs. Is that supposed to be the norm or something? Also, of those remaining 8 appearances, 6 were in games with a 4-run or greater swing, including 4 with a 6+ swing. In those other 8 appearances Linebrink allowed 7 ER. In case you were also wondering about innings, on only two of those occasions in August and September he worked 1.2 IP, plus once he worked 1.1 IP, but every other outing he had was for an inning or less. So stressful or non-stressful, Linebrink's second half was one of the worst halves you'll see a reliever on this team produce. If this had been anyone else making less money that guy would have been gone. In short, you're making excuses to fit Rongey's garbage argument. Linebrink sucked ass and was by a wide margin the worst pitcher on our team in the second half yet we ran him out there. Jose Contreras' 2nd half numbers were actually quite a bit better than Linebrink's numbers as well. There was no excuse for running Linebrink out there and I see no reason to believe why any of those names I mentioned in the previous post could not have done better.

This is terrific news for us. Even if he's not ready out of ST, he should be up at some point next year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 09:04 PM) Thank you. This post needs to be bookmarked and bumped, often. And this is coming from someone who hates it when that happens. So it never pissed you off when Ozzie would go to Linebrink in a game that we actually had a shot at winning when there were other options in the bullpen? And it really doesn't matter what the other options were since Linebrink in the second half last year was the worst pitcher we had on our team. Even f***ing Randy Williams was better against righties than Linebrink was in the second half, and by quite a bit.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 08:08 PM) I think one of my favorite classics is the following exchange: caller: "Why did Ozzie bring in _______ to pitch in the 8th." me: "OK. Who would you rather have out there?" caller: "Anybody!" me: "Such as?" caller: "It doesn't matter! ANYBODY!" No real better solution, just "somebody else" should have been used. The old anybody-is-better-than-what-we-have/used argument. You can also replace the first line in that exchange with "They need to send ______'s ass down to Charlotte and bring up somebody else." Those two calls are interchangeable. It's the notion that it can't any worse than it is currently. But what they don't understand is that, yes, it most certainly could always be worse. My favorite argument of yours is when you say that Linebrink needs to be out there even though he's garbage because the team can't win unless he improves, and he can't improve if he's not playing. It made so much sense to keep letting him blow important games with the Sox when they could have sent him down to work on things in Charlotte and at least tried somebody else. But yeah, I guess it would be pretty hard for anyone like Santeliz, Link, Nunez, Harrell, Hernandez, Rodriguez, etc. to come up and post better numbers than what Linebrink put up in the second half, which in 23.1IP was an ERA of 8.49 with a 2.19 WHIP and a .377/.433/.651/1.084 line against - which is just a hair less in OPS than what Albert Pujols produced against the entire NL last season. Saying that it would be difficult for a rookie to come up and become a major contributor is one thing, but to intimate that we had no one in the system last year who even as a rookie would have been a better bet than Linebrink was at that point is another. Even bringing up a kid who could have put up an ERA of 6 with a WHIP under 2 and an OPSA under 1.000 would have been an improvement, and at least at that point you're giving someone else a shot to show if he can stick or not. You know why Linebrink kept getting run out there just as well as every other Sox fan on this forum does, and it's because of his contract. The Sox weren't going to MacDougalize him with 2+ years and $10.5M+ remaining on his deal. If Scott Linebrink had been a pre-arb player like Boone Logan was, Ozzie would have reamed his ass and sent him down.

I really abhor the idea of Mark Teahen in RF, and Figgins and Beltre are the only two guys on the market that I can think of who would push Teahen out of 3B. Beltre seems to be garnering lots of interest, and with Borass being his agent, that's probably not happening. Figgins is also unlikely, but if we did get him I'd much rather have Figgins in CF with Teahen at 3B or Figgins at 3B with Teahen on the bench. Please no Teahen in the OF. As for Upton, as long as we're only talking MiLB talent, he's worth whatever it is we give up. I'd much rather target Adrian first as the main priority, but I definitely wouldn't be upset about going after an uber-talent like Upton. He'll cost a ton though.

Darren Oliver maybe? I think he's a Type A, but that doesn't matter because our 1st rounder is protected. He'd be worth a second rounder if he comes cheaply enough. I doubt he'd sign this early though without testing the market, and the s***ty deal the Cubs gave Grabow could affect Oliver's market price considerably. As for cheap reclamation projects, there are tons of those guys out there. Maybe an extra starter who could work out of the pen or a lefty reliever? Maybe Ron Mahay or Ron Villone as a lefty specialist? Escobar who was mentioned would be a very nice fit for us because he could pad the bullpen plus act as insurance for Freddy if Hudson becomes settled in a setup role. There are also possibilities of MiLB free agents or players who have been outrighted and cleared waivers. Not much of a hint.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 03:39 PM) Omogrosso will be on the 60 day DL though so what does it matter? He really won't count against the 40 man roster in time, correct? Correct, and that's a great point. I hadn't thought of that.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 03:35 PM) Gartrell makes sense. Hynick does too. Omogrosso is going to miss all of 2010, so why? Santos...great fastball, no control. Luis is just flat out bad, he'll be 26 at the start of 2010 and will be making his first AA roster more than likely. I don't think Marrero is eligible. Marrero is eligible and was left off. He was 19 on the day he was drafted, and you have to be 18 to get the 5 evaluation years.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:18 PM) I'm pretty sure he does have some options left. He has one left.

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:09 PM) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Most teams already have toolsy minor league outfielders who are struggling at the plate. Not sure they'll come running to add one of ours to their major league roster. Despite the loss in power and the low batting average, he actually cut his K rate pretty significantly going from W-S to Birmingham and he more than doubled his BB rate last year as well. Shelby will get claimed IMO. Every org also has a ton of fringey SP. Dumb move by the Sox protecting one of those guys over the far more talented Shelby. Edit: Shelby's OBP dropped only 8 points last year from his numbers at W-S even though his batting average dropped 52 points. Maybe his numbers weren't impressive overall, but that is.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 01:04 PM) What about his year last year screams put me on a major league roster for a year? It's just his talent that's intriguing. On a terrible team he can be an adequate 5th OF/pinch runner for a year, then he'd be back in the minors again to continue developing. I don't think anyone would consider giving him much playing time right now.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 12:40 PM) If he is the utility infielder, playing 3 times a week makes sense. One game in every 10 or so, per skill position player (3x16.2 is 49 games actually starting), plus the occasional PH/PR and late defense type role. Sounds about right to me. And I don't think we're trading Nix, because I don't think he gets you anything in trade anyway. I think he stays with the team, CJ isn't ready yet. Bench of Nix (who can play some corner OF as well as 2B, 3B), Vizquel (all skill IF), Kotsay (all OF, 1B), and the backup C. Gives you pretty good coverage all around. I think this depends on who our other starting OF is. If we get a guy who can play CF (whether he is regularly in RF or CF) then with Rios here we'd have 2 CF's. That would allow us to take an extra IF if we carry 7 pitchers in the pen, which is likely. Otherwise, if we get a straight corner OF, then we'll need someone to cover CF and I don't think Kotsay can do that anymore. In that case a 5th OF makes sense as opposed to the extra IF, since Kotsay can take 1B and Omar can take 2B, 3B, and SS.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 12:02 PM) Absolutely hes more valuable at 3b. Just as Beckham is more valuable at 2b. They have every intention of giving him the chance to be a 3b and continue to work with him. The current thought is he will have to move but he has a shot to change people's minds. Certainly the Sox have to make future lineup projetions. If he can prove them wrong, then thats a good thing! Agree, which is why I think it's premature to say the least when people write off Viciedo as a 1B/corner OF. When the Sox come out and say they don't think it's going to work for him at 3B then I'll believe he's not a 3B. But the fact that they had Retherford at 2B in Birmingham after he played 3B in W-S, and the fact that they kept Viciedo at 3B after they promoted Allen, and the fact that they didn't move Beckham to 3B until they promoted him to Charlotte, plus the new diet and conditioning plans, as well as the talk about "Cora's camp" again, all tells me they're doing what they can to get him to make the necessary adjustments.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 12:35 PM) I disagree on Hudson. I think they give him a 7th or 8th inning type role, either part time or full time. Then if successful, he'll move to starter when someone falters. I don't think they'll use him for garbage time, especially since, as you say, Carrasco is pretty ideal for that role. I meant Hudson taking a setup role, but I'll edit that so it sounds less confusing.