Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 11:54 AM) The Angels really like Paulie and I think the bigger question would be how much if anything would the Angels be putting in on this deal. It could be more or less the Sox moving Konerko and not getting much in return and the main portion of the deal being the prospects the club sends. I want no one to think that we are reporting this as a done deal or anything of the sort. Just that discussions were made regarding that deal...my guess is 1-5% of all deals that get discussed ever turn into a finalized deal (if not less than that). One of these deals would make more sense then: Sox trade: Konerko + prospect or cash to Angels, lots of prospects to the Padres Sox get: Adrian Gonzalez Angels trade: nothing Angels get: Konerko + Sox prospect or cash (for taking on Konerko's salary) Padres trade: Adrian Gonzalez Padres get: Sox prospects or Sox trade: Konerko, lots of prospects Sox get: Adrian Gonzalez Angels trade: one good prospect Angels get: Konerko, Bell/Young/Correia Padres trade: Adrian Gonzalez, Bell/Young/Correia Padres get: Sox prospects, Angels prospect Edit: Also, I know you guys can't divulge exactly, but as far as your source for this... is it someone who really knows what he's talking about? Someone actually involved in operations somewhere? And if so, does this source have a track record? I know that lots of things get discussed, and rarely do those discussions turn into actual deals, but this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense from the Angels standpoint, even if they really do like Konerko, because there are guys on the open market who could come very close to Konerko's production at half Konerko's salary.

I don't see how this makes sense without the Sox taking on GMJ or Ervin Santana in the deal. Why would they give up prospects that the Padres would want in a AGon deal for 1 year of Konerko at $12M? It would make sense for them to give up good prospects to shed bad deals, but the Angels could just go out and re-sign Vladdy to DH for a couple million without giving up anything. Or even better yet, they could put Abreu at DH since that's where he belongs anyway. Every year since about 2005 we've had Paulie to the Angels rumors. This year it makes less sense than in any other. I think someone's source is misinformed here.

Yall mahf***as be s***tin me...

So are they really saying that David Cook would be the 7th most valuable offensive player in our organization next year?

One solitary vote is pretty surprising. All I'll say is that this year everyone on the list is pretty damn studly, so no matter what the outcome is, there will be guys who may have won in other years getting snubbed.

QUOTE (zenryan @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 02:59 PM) Wow, what a s***ty event last night. Good thing Pacman-Cotto was entertaining. Vera might've got jobbed but does it really matter? If you cant beat Couture at this point then youre basically irrelevant in the UFC. I cant stand Vera so I'm glad he lost though. Couture needs to hang it up before he really gets hurt. But then again, he's paying for another divorce so he might need the cash. The main event wasn't all that great, but I thought it was a pretty good card. There were a couple KO's including the one Roli Delgado took which was just sick, plus Hardy showed he was more than the hype taking out Swick. Bisping looked good too. And Matt Brown-James Wilks was a very entertaining fight IMO. You make valid points with Randy, but as long as the commissions sanction him to fight - and because of his age they need to clear him for each individual fight - and as long as he wants to fight and gets offered a spot, I have no problem with it. He's not Saku, I mean Lesnar, Nog, and Vera is an extremely tough string of fights for anyone, and only Lesnar finished him. There are still matchups with Randy that I'd like to see, but he might need to take the Matt Hughes route for a fight or two (Serra and Renzo) before getting another top LHW or HW. And there's always the Kimbo factor too. Randy-Kimbo for no apparent reason would be a huge draw, especially on free TV, and it doesn't harm anything because neither are now nor will be in the title picture. Might as well milk it while you can.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 04:47 PM) I'll see your Carwin/Velasquez & throw in this suggestion. Do you sit Cain & wait to have him go against say Frank Mir if he beats Kongo? What about Dos Santos, do you start giving him fights against any of these guys? I think that would depend on when they go to Mexico, but Mir is a great suggestion in the meantime. He's a name, but Velasquez can deal with Mir's striking while Mir can't deal with Cain's wrestling, and Mir off his back isn't exactly a huge force when you keep things tight. That would be a strong win for Cain and would give him quite a bit of momentum going into a title fight. Carwin they probably can't do anything with since they guaranteed him a title shot in his next fight. Cigano is probably the only other deserving guy, except he's fighting Gonzaga at 108 in January. It's only a month and a half away so it wouldn't make sense to pull him out of that fight, plus JDS is a dangerous guy who should be built up for a shot at the belt himself. The best for all involved IMO would be if they went to Mexico in March for 111 instead of April and just made Carwin-Cain for the interim belt. That way everyone involved can relax for the holidays and start their training camps for the new year. Carwin has a knee issue anyway, so the time off to rest would be great for him. The only thing that would suck about this scenario would be that if Lesnar is ready to start training in a couple months then he would have to wait for Cain-Carwin to be resolved first and maybe not fight until June or so. Dana and co. will probably meet with Lesnar and his people, talk to the doctors, and then decide on what to do from there, so I doubt there will be any announcement involving Cain or Carwin for a while. Lesnar's their champ and biggest draw so he comes first.

Yeah, MMA's Javy Vazquez has been around a while and has fought all over the place. Recently he had been in EliteXC, then Affliction, and now he's in the WEC 145lb. class, just losing a couple split decisions. He's a very well-rounded guy with sick BJJ. If you watch all the WEC live shows you should see him soon, unless for some reason they cut him (and I hope they don't because he's very good). He also has (or had, not sure) a video blog kind of thing on Sherdog where he'd pick the winner of a fight and display techniques that he thought would help his pick win the fight. The news about Lesnar and Nog is kind of scary. I really hope these guys get better and quickly because Lesnar is just getting better and more exciting, and Nog was just looking like the real Nog again. That's so sad. I hope when/if these guys come back they're back at 100% after full training camps. The UFC shouldn't think of rushing either one to fill out a card. Don't know who is going to get what fight, but I wouldn't be too shocked if they made Carwin vs. Velasquez for an interim title in Mexico. I haven't read this anywhere, it's just my speculation, but they want Cain to headline in Mexico, and if Lesnar is going to be out for a long time I think it makes sense. Then when Nog comes back you either put him against the interim champ if Lesnar is still out or give him a #1 contender fight where he'll face the winner of Lesnar-interim champ.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 01:52 PM) I'm fairly confident in saying that getting Bell, Gonzalez, and Crawford is a pipe dream. If we picked up Gonzalez and Bell in the same deal then the upper echelon of our farm would be drained of everything but '09 draft members. Crawford would have to cost Jenks + low-level guys, which could be beaten quite easily by anyone who wanted him. We'd have to hope everyone else thinks Crawford sucks or something.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 12:58 PM) for real could you imagine 1. Crawford LF 2. Beckham 2b 3. Q RF 4. Gonzalez 1b 5. Konerko DH 6. Rios CF 7. AJ C 8. Lexi SS 9. Teahen 3B then lets say danks develops into a stud (assuming hes not in one of the trades) how good defensively would Crawford-Rios-Danks look....MERCY If we could get both Crawford and Gonzalez, I'd approach the Giants with this deal and see if they would bite: Konerko ($12M in 2010) + Linebrink ($5M in 2010, $5.5M in 2011) for Rowand ($12M in 2010-12) + $5.5M cash in 2012 The Giants supposedly want to unload Rowand's bad deal. By doing this the Sox would free up another $5M this year, and when you figure Linebrink in 2010 as a sunk cost, it would be like Rowand at $6.5M in 2010-2011. Move Quentin to DH and run out an OF defense of Crawford-Rios-Rowand. Serious question, who else in baseball could beat that defensively? We could go into a park like Comerica or SafeCo and catch everything. With our starting staff and that kind of D we'd be a significantly better road team, and that middle of the order would be dynamite in the Cell. Lineup: L Crawford LF R Beckham 2B L Gonzalez 1B R Quentin DH L Pierzynski C R Rowand RF L Teahen 3B R Rios CF R Ramirez SS Bench: ??? C, Kotsay 1B/OF, Nix IF, ??? UT Rotation: Peavy-Buehrle-Floyd-Danks-Garcia Bullpen: Bell CL, Thornton LSU, Pena RSU, ??? LSP, Nunez RSP, ??? MR, Carrasco LR Sign a cheap veteran or two on 1-year deals or minor league deals and let them compete with our in-house options for the pen. Bring in a couple backups for cheap at the minimum. BTW this is a total pipedream and I know it, but so what?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 12:38 PM) Gotta agree that we way underpaid for Peavy, considering we sent them a A-Ball K machine, who went from being a possible closer guy to nothing after the trade, a number 3 starter at best, a guy who could be a number 4 starter or good lefty BP arm, and a tall guy. LOL. That's probably how Kenny marketed him. Kenny: "We've got his guy named Adam Russell, and he's tall..." Towers: "Sold!"

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 12:32 PM) With the starting staff we have adding a bat like adrians to the team we already have give us a legit shot at making the world series for the next 2 or 3 years. No prospect is a sure thing, do i believe hudson and flowers will be good(assuming they will be the 2 key pieces in a deal for adrian)? yes, yes i do but what happens if hudson turns out to be another brandon mccarthy and tyler flowers doesnt pan out? Adrian Gonzalez is a legit player that will give you a legit shot at a championship for the next couple years and beyond if we get him to resign. As far as crawford goes i only try getting him if we get heath bell in a trade with gonzalez and all it takes is jenks and a decent prospect or 2. That would be so unbelievably awesome. Kenny would need his own statue at that point.

It might be a bit redundant with Teahen and Kotsay already in the fold, but if the price is right, get him. I like what you've said about him Cubano, and he sounds like someone the Sox will definitely try to sign.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 11:17 AM) Another main event ruined by s***ty judging. I think it's about time they work on ways to change this up a bit. I'd say this was Vera's best performance. Hardy solidified his spot last night, but at this point it's hard for me to take him as a challenger to GSP seriously. Bisping needed that W last night, I still don't see what all the hype about Kang has been about though. Agree on the judging of the main event, I had Vera 29-28 and I don't see how you can give the 2nd and 3rd rounds to Randy at all. That's control over damage and effective striking, which is BS. Hardy was very impressive IMO, I had definitely underrated him. I thought Swick was going to take him out, but he showed a great chin and an excellent ability to counter effectively against a guy who IMO is a quicker striker. Those sparring sessions between Hardy, Etim, and Semtex must be great some entertainment. Kang is the Javy Vazquez of MMA, and I mean the pitcher, not the fighter Javy Vazquez because the fighter Javy Vazquez is better than Kang. I still think Kang is a better athlete and a more complete fighter than Bisping, but I didn't think he had much of a chance in this one. He's capable of some really great things but it'll never happen for him. He just folded, again, after looking strong in the first round.

QUOTE (chisoxt @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) Why is it everytime an expensive, but short term veteran player is available just about every fan wants to unload the whole farm system to acquire him? Winning is important to the longterm success of most organizations in baseball, and it's also fun for the fans. Some deals make more sense than others, you have to weigh risk vs. potential reward. QUOTE (chisoxt @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) They ignore the fact that we have many more needs in other areas and that the practice of mortgaging every decent prospect you have for a quick fix is not sustainable. How is this being ignored? Unproven prospects have more value now IMO than they had in the past. Look at some of the outrageous bonuses that foreign players are receiving in international free agency. I have no idea how much MLB in general spends on scouting, signing, and developing prospects, but it's a lot. If you're specifically talking about the Sox, look at all Kenny's trades, and how many good players did we end up giving away? Very few. QUOTE (chisoxt @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) Even the big market teams like the Yankees, Red sox and Dodgers are smart enough to realize that you have to keep some of your younger players, particualary young pitchers who can fill important bullpen roles. That way you don't have to overspend and get overused rejects like Linebrink and MacDougal. It's easier to produce some very good players when you put that money into the farm and those teams have done that quite a bit. The Red Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers have all traded prospects who have become stars in recent history, and they've all been burned by prospects not turning out as well. MacDougal was a smart move at the time. He had a terrific arm, was healthy at the moment, and we needed help in the bullpen. We were coming off a World Championship and wanted to get back to the postseason. His contract wasn't really bad at all by comparison. It sucked that we wasted money, but MacDougal was nowhere near the Linebrink stratosphere in terms of dollars. So far the prospects we gave up haven't done anything either. Linebrink was the result of the 2007 bullpen (and season as a whole) plus the relief market at the time. There are tons of other examples of overpaid relievers who got contracts between the 2004-2007 or so period. The Sox happened to be one of those teams, and unfortunately they gave Linebrink 4 years. But I wouldn't say they overpaid by much if at all because he was one of the top setup guys on that year's market, maybe even the top guy. QUOTE (chisoxt @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) Yes, getting Crawford or Gonzalez would be great but at what cost? There is an enormous difference beween Crawford and Gonzalez. Crawford makes $10M in 2010 and then hits FA. Plus he's a LF who we'd only want for defense and lead-off capabilities, which IMO is way too much of our flexibility. I would argue Crawford as a very nice additional player, but he's not a franchise bat like Gonzalez. Gonzalez makes $10.25M over 2 years, not one, and then hits FA. He OTOH fills our biggest offensive need (bit lefty bat, OPS, big power) while being cost-effective. IMO Gonzalez would be an acquisition with a 2010-2011 World Series Championship in mind, Crawford an acquisition with the 2010 Division Championship in mind. Major difference. I'd do Gonzalez, but not Crawford. QUOTE (chisoxt @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) Then when we overpay to get guys like them or Rios and Peavy, there is the inevitable self pity and whining on the part of management that we are too poor to fill other roster positions. We will have the best rotation in the league next year but no backup help from the bullpen. We didn't pay anything to get Rios, and Rios in CF at his career numbers is at least a market-level deal, and a much better contract than Rowand, Hunter, Fukudome, GMJ, etc. We underpaid for Peavy also. The only reason he came so cheap was because of his salary, the Padres desperation to move him, and his NTC. I can't think of another player in recent history who was that good and acquired that cheaply. In terms of prospects, the Sox gave up quite a bit more to get Freddy Garcia for half of a year than they gave up for like 3.5 years or whatever of Peavy. Also, the bullpen comment... we have talent in the pen. Bullpens are hard to predict, but with a better rotation eating innings they should see a lot less work, and they'll have a chance to be better. I didn't like the Pena deal, and I still don't, but Pena does have some serious talent. Same with Linebrink. And we've got quite a few in-house candidates with MLB arms in there as well, plus Thornton is a beast and Jenks, prior to 2009, had been the same. Our bullpen in 2010 could be a strength for all we know. QUOTE (chisoxt @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) If this team wants to achieve sustainable success in the long term, at some point they have to get to the point where they develop their own players. As the economy sputters and revenue streams will be hard to sustain, the Sox have to be smart when it comes to management of their roster. Buying expensive pieces off the shelf will not be the answer. Um, not really. Quentin, Alexei, Floyd, and Danks were all developed outside of the organization. Beckham didn't even spend a full year in the minors, and in fact, for a while there he looked like he was going to make the team out of Spring Training as a 2B last year. The key is having the pieces in farm to make moves with, then doing the scouting and making sure that the young players you bring into the picture - no matter what organization they came from - are going to be good bets to succeed. BTW, this "buying expensive pieces off the shelf" thing doesn't apply to the Sox hardly at all. They are rarely significant players in FA and they make a lot of their deals for proven players while getting cash back (Teahen, Thome, Cabrera, Contreras, etc.). The Sox have been mostly a reclamation project/buy low team for a while now with a few exceptions.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 09:11 AM) You are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. You are basically agreeing with my argument. Just because they say they have no money, doesn't mean they actually have no money. See Peavy, Jake and Rios, Alex. Thats what I've been saying. You and ss2k5 buy into their claim they spend every dime that comes in, they only break even and if something down the road looks good they magically find the money somewhere to make it happen. Isn't it even slightly possible that Forbes is right and the Sox make a profit between $15-20 million every year? I agree more teams have been chirping about lack of funds, perhaps not the extent KW does, but chirping nonetheless, and the players believe, and I'm sure there is at least a little validity to their claim although proving it would be difficult, that collusion is taking place. Of course more businesses and people are talking about less funds these days, and paying players less, especially the mediocre ones, in the long run is only a good thing for people like us who pay to go to games. BTW, only a select few get to see their books. I wouldn't qualify. I also don't have a problem with them making a profit. Its the lack of money talk that bothers me and the raising of ticket prices while lowering payroll in 2009 that got me to complain about spending for the first time. I personally believe what the Sox say when it comes to their financials, but I'll admit that they could be telling half-truths, and we'll never know anyway. There's a lot I don't understand when it comes to the way the Sox choose to operate financially, like why they would give $1M+ to players like Wise when they could pick up a 4th OF at the minimum and put that extra $600K or so into the draft. I just don't see the point in arguing over something like that because none of us know as it is, and there's nowhere I know of where we can go to find this information. The bolded part is what I want to respond to though. The players will go on about collusion, but until the players themselves are willing to redistribute hundreds of millions of dollars in bad contracts to other players who deserve that money, they should shut up. Just about every team in baseball has at least one or two bad deals, with the only exceptions I can think of being the Twins, Pirates, and Orioles. MLB projected a decline in attendance and a huge loss of sponsorship dollars going into the 2009 season, and they were correct, although I'm not sure how close they were to their exact projections. Still, teams can prove they are losing money, and teams can prove they have millions of dollars locked into garbage contracts that could be better spent elsewhere, so I don't know why the players would be shocked to see owners using teams like the Cubs and Tigers as reasons to reassess their approach to the FA market. If there's one thing the players should be extremely pissed about it is the crazy bonuses given to some of these international prospects, plus the posting system, and the FA compensation system. A worldwide draft with a set slotting system, with the ability to trade picks, as well as the complete overhaul of the FA comp process including the removal of the draft pick forfeiture rules, would go a long way toward insuring veteran players a fair shake in FA.

QUOTE (knightni @ Nov 15, 2009 -> 05:04 AM) I know that he hits oppo for power quite a lot. His home run log I was watching some of his highlight videos on MLB.com before and towards the end of the season, during one of the videos a graphic popped up showing something like 3/4 of his bombs being hit to CF and LF, and the announcers said he was still leading the league (maybe baseball?) in opposite field home runs. I don't know where you go to find those kinds of stats, but he's either at the top or right around the top in all of of baseball in terms of opposite field shots.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 14, 2009 -> 07:28 PM) I think I'd actually prefer Crawford to Gonzalez. Both are fantastic players and bring certain aspects to this team that it sorely lacks. However, with the addition of Crawford, you are then free to go out and sign Thome/Johnson/LaRoche to whatever deal, and it leaves you with a balanced offensive attack, brings in an athletic player who has proven himself capable, potentially saves you from dealing Hudson (though I wouldn't necessarily count on it), and, in the next 7 years (assuming you negotiate a contract extension with both if you were to hypothetically acquire one of them), saves you money and allows for flexibility with others. Affording it becomes difficult, but if Linebrink can be given away, you can figure something out around it. And come this offseason, the Sox shed even more salary. Hypothetically speaking, it'd be Crawford - LF Beckham - 2B Johnson/Quentin - DH/RF Quentin/LaRoche/Thome - RF/DH Konerko - 1B Pierzynski - C Rios - CF Ramirez - SS Teahen - 3B Every hitter is capable of putting up a .750 OPS or better (in some cases, much much better) and the outfield defense improves dramatically. The idea would be to acquire him without giving up Hudson, and I think it's possible, though maybe not likely. If Linebrink's $10.5M could be given away then I think we would have already done that. Jenks would have to go in this scenario, meaning we would then need two more lefties in the bullpen, and we'd have no money left over to spend.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 14, 2009 -> 06:24 PM) Freddy had shoulder surgery, not TJ. From what I understand, elbows are a lot easier to fix than shoulders. Its pretty rare for a guy to pitch as little as Freddy has the past 3 years and suddenly go up to 150-175 IP. I would definitely bet against it. God I'm f***ing stupid. You're absolutely right, I thought it was TJ. He had surgery on his labrum and rotator cuff. Still, I'll be optimistic about him, but you're right, shoulder issues are a lot scarier than elbow injuries in general and the idea of counting on him for more than 20-25 starts is probably optimistic until he proves he can do it.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 14, 2009 -> 05:10 PM) Ely will probably be in the mix as well if he pitches as well in AAA like he did in AA. I like Ely and it would be interesting to see how the Sox view him in relation to the other LR/5th or 6th starter candidates we have.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 14, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) I think the best example would be a guy going from throwing 100 innings in the minors to trying to throw 200+ in the bigs with no step in-between. It's possible everything could work swimmingly. But it's also very possible, perhaps likely, that he'll reach the middle of the season and hit a dead-arm period because his arm hasn't been used like that before. Or, it's also possible that something that hasn't been worked out in the same way the last few years could go fine for a while and then suddenly snap. So, the answer is; all of the above. Some pitchers come up and can take a huge innings jump right away and never get hurt or really show a dead-arm stretch, but it's pretty darn rare. We can push him as hard as he can go...but if we don't have a backup plan, its a roll of the dice. The dead arm period everyone is going to go through. Freddy is no different in that case. I think you're overestimating the risk of a re-injury greatly. http://wapedia.mobi/en/Tommy_John_surgery I counted 162 names on that list and of those 162 only 15 had to undergo the procedure 2-3 times, and some of those guys had pretty scary deliveries as it was. Freddy will start 2010 almost 2 years after returning to the mound. It's not like he's spent that time sitting on the couch eating Doritos, he's been working through rehab and throwing regularly. The only reason he did not throw more innings in 2009 was because his arm wasn't strong enough to be effective, so instead they focused on strength and conditioning to get him back up to par. It's also not extremely rare as you say for a SP to step right back into it and work big innings in his first full season back. Chris Carpenter for example just this year threw 192.2IP in his first full year back from TJ.

Freddy Garcia has been in the Major Leagues since 1999. There has only been one season during that period where Freddy had been physically healthy enough to take the ball all season long and yet did not pitch 200 innings. That was 2009. The reason? His arm strength had not returned. Now that it has, and Freddy is fully healthy again, he should be expected to resume his previous work. 2000 he was plagued by injuries and worked 124.1 2007 he had TJ after pitching hurt 2008 he recovered from TJ and made a comeback, but was still weak 2009 he completed his comeback with Sox, fully recovered There is not anything structurally wrong with Freddy Garcia's arm or shoulder. He's been checked out and he is healthy. He has regained the velocity he had with us in 2006, minus maybe a tick of 1mph, and that is what he will be working on over the offseason. The man has rededicated himself to conditioning and is nowhere near the 83-86mph Freddy that we saw pitch against us in Detroit. There is no reason to expect a fully healthy Freddy Garcia to not pitch like a fully healthy Freddy Garcia.

Just a heads up to everyone that UFC 105 is on at 8pm tonight on Spike. The show is on tape delay, so please no spoilers.

No thank you on Crawford. He'll cost a bunch in talent, he makes $10M, he's a FA after 2010, and our biggest offensive need is *not* a lead-off hitter.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 13, 2009 -> 05:33 PM) I'm assuming you mean the fifth. And I don't think it's necessarily fair to rule Freddy out from approaching 200 IP. Maybe 170ish is more realistic, but let's not forget this guy was a horse in the early part of his career. He exceeded 200 IP in 7 of his first 8 seasons. While he has struggled with injuries recently, he's looked quite adept at learning how to pitch without a great fastball anymore, and I think if he continues that, he can approach 180-190 IP. The guy is still just 33 years old. People forget that. Yeah, people who believe that Freddy is going to have to undergo TJ again right after making a full recovery, or whatever would have to be the case to so limit his innings, are clueless. TJ is the only reason Freddy missed so much time, and when you look at recent history, the amount of time it took Freddy to come back is pretty much the same amount of time it takes for everyone else to work their way back, which is about 1.5-2 years. Billy Wagner took a bit less than 1.5 years and by comparison he came back very quickly. Freddy worked 216.1IP in 2006 and put up a 17-9 record with a 1.28 WHIP, and he had the same stuff then that he has now. 7 of his 9 starts since returning with us have been quality starts, and this is also while still finding his command. Beyond that, Freddy has gotten himself into better shape and is working this offseason on continuing to build up arm strength and stamina. Freddy at 200IP next year is very possible, and a 170IP+ I'd say is probable. Basically, anyone who doesn't see what Freddy offers in the way of offspeed stuff hasn't been paying attention. Anyone who doesn't understand how Freddy is a "pitcher" and not a "thrower" hasn't been paying attention either. The same is true for those who believe it is unlikely for proven veteran hurlers to overcome TJ, or that Freddy cannot be successful without a mid-90's fastball, etc. These are misconceptions which Freddy himself and others have disproven over and over again. Even still, there's a very good chance we'll see Freddy around more like 88-92 rather than the 87-91 Freddy we saw this year as he continues to build strength. I don't think we'll ever get the old Freddy back, but a return of the 2006 Freddy would be one of the best 5th starters in baseball and also a mid-rotation starter in other, lesser rotations around the league. People forget how valuable he was that year, and all you have to do is look at what one year of a 2006 Freddy at $10M brought us in trade: Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez.