Kenny Hates Prospects

BTW Rampage did something funny last episode so I'll give him his props for that. The best part however was Rashad telling the chicken "Don't say nothin' to me! Don't say nothin' to me!"

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) I don't think so, I think they would have edited it and promoted it so people knew Kimbo was going to fight again. Great point. QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) Yeah, he'll fight in the finale, I imagine they'll try and give him someone he has a great shot of beating so they can put him on another UFN card. The rumor is Houston Alexander, and if that's true I'm taking Houston.

Flowers is just speculation right now, but his name is going to come up a bunch in rumors over the offseason anyway. Whether there will be any validity to those is another matter because the Sox love him.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 01:15 PM) But if Detroit is "having a fire sale" so to speak, then I would gather that they don't plan on contending for a few seasons anyway. Selling off Granderson, Mags, Guillen, Bonderman, etc. is a pretty steep changeover from their 2009 team. They'll still try to contend. Maggs, Robertson, Bonderman, Willis, and Inge are all off the books after 2010. Plus in 2009 they were still paying Gary Sheffield, so once the majority of the bad contracts expire they'll have some money to play with. A lot of that will go towards extending Verlander though. I wouldn't expect the Tigers to move all 3 of Laird, Jackson, and Granderson either. Maybe one of Jackson/Granderson and Laird, but not all 3, so that's not really a firesale. IMO they should move Granderson and Laird in order to keep the Verlander-Jackson-Porcello group together, because the SP is what will carry them, and then by 2011 they could be looking at those 3 plus another young starter or two working his way into the permanent picture, like Casey Crosby perhaps.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 12:53 PM) Well I did say you can give Huddy the slight edge in terms of overall status. Though it'll be hard to convine you on Bowden regardless cause I know your not a fan of his. I love the kid personally, but still think Huddy is a tad better in the upside. And remember KHP, quality over quantity. Some of those spects you listed are nice and all, but that doesn't mean most of them project any. SD would not even ask for 1/2 those names you listed IMO. I also wonder how much Reterford's trade value is actually, especially for an undraftee. Should be quite interesting though to say the least. A lot of those names in the second tier would be throw-ins anyway, that the Padres could just have. I should have split that up. But still, we could offer them 7-8 good prospects. In terms of upside the list would be shorter, but there are others who maybe aren't really exciting but a team like the Padres could have some interest in. I agree that it is quality over quantity in general, but the Padres have a ton of holes and should be looking for both, a quantity of quality, especially players who should be up in 2010 at some point.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 12:05 PM) I would say the Giants are probably the best fit amongst that group. I doubt that Dodgers are just going to bench Loney, and I'm pretty sure they tried moving him to the outfield with bad results, and I think the Mets will probably try and sign someone to an incentive laden deal. I don't think the Braves touch him without the Sox taking on some money, and there is no need to just straight up get rid of Konerko, which is what sending him to Baltimore would be. I also seem to recall that during Konerko's free agency, Baltimore actually offered a 5/$65 deal, but that with taxes included it would have actually been less money than he was going to make in either Anaheim or Chicago, though I don't recall the specifics. The Giants seem like the most logical fit, and that'd probably be the best fit too. They are looking to add offense, and Sabean has been known to give up solid prospects for players before (and I'm not even thinking about Pierzynski here) Agree, the Giants are probably the best fit. Atlanta might be able to do some maneuvering because of some bad contracts they have. A three-way for example: Sox trade: Konerko, $2M Braves trade: Kawakami, Reyes, $2M 3rd party trades: prospect Sox receive: Reyes, prospect Braves receive: Konerko 3rd party receives: Kawakami, $2M from Sox in 2010, $2M from Braves in 2011 Sox clear $10M and pick up a lefty to compete with Williams plus a prospect, Braves ditch Kawakami and use some of his contract to pay Konerko, third team gains a 5th starter at a normal price ($4.7M in 2010 and 2011)

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 10:59 AM) Well until I hear them say something like that, I would assume they would take the best package regardless of who the team is. Its not totally out of the question to have trades made in the division. With the Royals maybe, because nobody is worried about those guys right now. We've dealt with KC recently, so has Minnesota, Detroit, and Cleveland I believe. But one contender trading with another is a pretty odd situation. Why would we give up 6 years of someone like Tyler Flowers for example to a team that would be playing us multiple times per year? Detroit would ask for more from us than they'd ask from a non-AL Central team IMO, and rightfully so. It would be extremely unlikely for us to get a very good player from them in any situation other than a Rule-5 or straight waiver claim, and that would have to be a prospect or project that would develop under us.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 11:43 AM) So your saying we should ask for more back? My thought is you are giving up Konerko but freeing up the resources to spend money on a good DH and a reliever. I'm not sure if the BoSox would include a Bowden or Bard instead of Kochman (or on top of Kochman). I was throwing the idea out as it might be one of the best ways to get a real good, young, top of the order bat, and shed salary. The Red Sox are stuck with Ortiz at $12M next year in the final year of his deal. Lowell is there too, and they're probably stuck with him as well, playing 3B. Youkilis is a pretty sweet 1B, but he leaves something to be desired at 3B. Konerko isn't really a fit for them IMO unless they moved another contract or two. They're in on Gonzalez because he's a franchise type player, but Paulie isn't so I don't think they would have interest. Ellsbury for Alexei is interesting but I don't know if either team would do that, and it just opens up another hole for us. IMO the destinations for Konerko, if we moved him, would be either the Giants, Dodgers, Mets, Braves, or maybe even the Orioles in a straight salary dump.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 09:50 AM) are you talking like a 7 for 1 deal? Theoretically if we did do that, I suppose we could get away with it. 1b Gonzalez is young, becks at 2b, ramirez SS, Teahan 3b. All not needed to be replaced immediately, Teahan though, would hopefully be. OF of CQ, Rios, and ?. Both are on the good side of 30. That leaves C with AJ, which I don´t worry about that much. I´m more interested now than I was. That is a pretty damn good package. I think it would have to be that kind of deal, like the Haren deal sort of. I'd try to get Bell too, but I don't know if the Padres would want to package those guys. But we still could do 7 good prospects + 1 throw-in for Adrian alone and come away just fine IMO. Winning one WS title, or just making two consecutive deep trips into the playoffs, would really fire up the fanbase, increase ticket sales, and hike up our payroll while others are falling around the league. And because Adrian is sooo cheap contractually, we would be able to take advantage of FA bargains to fill out remaining holes on the team for 2010. After 2010 then more cash comes off the books just as Danks and Q start to get pretty expensive, and Adrian's deal would still allow flexibility.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 09:52 AM) KHP, I like the way you think, in fact........ I think I luv you man. LOL I love us both too.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 09:48 AM) It's probably going to take some type of organizational suicide to acquire Felix Hernandez at this point. The M's are looking to keep him. Theo can talk all he wants, but I don't think there's any way that Felix is traded. I think that all will depend upon extension talks this winter, which has to be #1 on Seattle's list. Felix is going to start making true megastar money pretty soon so they're going to need the cost certainty. If Boston comes along offering Buchholz + Bard + Kelly + more, and Felix is committed to free agency, it will be hard for Seattle to turn that down.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 12:58 PM) Apparently, Chipper Jones has been going around the Braves organization saying they need to keep Javy. Also, the young pitchers like him as he apparently has turned into a mentor, especially for Jair Jurjens(sp?). Who knows what happens though. They have too many good pitchers and the one that isn't all that great is Lowe, but he will be untradeable. And Hudson has more value to them than anyone else. Unless the Braves go after some of the worst bad contracts out there, like Oliver Perez, Milton Bradley, Soriano, etc., I don't see how they can move Lowe. That contract is horrid and very unlike the Braves.

The Tigers aren't going to deal Jackson or Granderson within the division. I'm sure we could get Maggs, Inge, Robertson, Bonderman, Willis, Guillen, etc. but that's not exactly helping us.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 08:17 AM) In other words, Kenny is going to see how the trade market works first, and then hit free agency to some extent. Which is pretty much the offseason plans every year, save for the '07-'08 offseason where he kind of "fell" into not offering a bad contract to Rowand, Hunter, or Fukudome.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 12:53 AM) Meh.. they have Luis Exposito down there who looks very promising for them not to mention Kotteras, though he might be a throw in at this point though a pretty damn good throw in.. though you can say he was in the overrated category. That's why I said earlier the Sawks could probably crush us in a deal if it came down to a farm's race, but of course.. it also depends who they'd want to give up. Buchholz and Bowden is already a very attractive offer. Just for comparison's sake, you could say Hudson=Bowden in terms of upside/potential with giving Huddy a bit of an edge perhaps. We don't have a Clay Buchholz in our system. Now.. would the red sox want to actually give up that much for Adrian and if that's a need for them? That remains to be seen, but I'm sure they are definitely considering it, not to mention SD and Boston front office have alot of connections. Disagree on Bowden being close to Hudson. Hudson is definitely better than that. Agree Buchholz is probably more attractive to the Padres than anything we could offer, but I still think Adrian is going to be a back-up plan for Boston, with King Felix being the #1 target. I do believe Boston has a great chance of winding up with one of these two. I mentioned this in another thread about suitors for Gonzalez, but watch out for Baltimore and Tampa Bay if they get involved. They could beat either us or the Red Sox, even without Baltimore including Jones/Wieters/Tillman, etc. Baltimore has the cash for an extension and they have been wanting to make a splash for a while.

QUOTE (1977 sox fan @ Nov 12, 2009 -> 07:57 AM) Hey question for you ? Why is it your telling others to tone it down and to watch there language but its ok for you to be a smart as- to me ? I read your profile its says your 12yrs old well if that is true until you accomplished half of what i have done in life . YOU my friend should tone it down . LOL, he's not really 12.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 10:33 PM) It's an interesting question actually. I'm assuming they would move Youk to 3B, and make other moves to help that. And of course Big Pappi ain't gettin any younger, so I'm sure they can "squeeze" Adrian in there somewhere. I do agree with one poster as if it was a farm's game, Boston would crush us. Buchholz, Bowden, Lars Anderson, Bard, Josh Reddick, Kalish, Raymond Fuentes, even a Jed Lowrie, etc.. (though a couple more overrated than others) they are much deeper than we are now. Though of course what shack said.. it depends how much of that talent they want to give up. We might be willing to include a Danks2, Viciedo or possibly even Tyler Flowers whereas they wouldn't. In terms of overall depth Boston has us beat IMO, but in terms of impact prospects who are ready now I think we may have the edge, and if Boston doesn't want to include Buchholz, then we beat the s*** out of Boston there. Casey Kelly and Tazawa are in there too for them. But again, the Padres should be looking primarily at who is ready now. It also needs to be said that SP is an area of need for Boston more than Gonzalez would be, especially if Bay comes back, and I think they want King Felix a bit more. They may have reservations about dealing a ton of pitching for Adrian when they could deal pitching for a true ace. The Sox can offer something like this: Dan Hudson - slots in as their #2 behind Latos, right now Tyler Flowers - starting catcher, right now Dayan Viciedo - starting 3B, maybe even right now because they'll trade Kouzmanoff, but probably by midseason Jordan Danks - midseason 2010 starting CF, possibly earlier Nathan Jones - possible future closer candidate, would likely be up sometime in 2010 Then give them 2-3 of the following: Clevelan Santeliz - could compete for a 2010 spot Lucas Harrell - could compete for a 2010 spot Jon Link - could compete for a 2010 spot Johnny Nunez - could compete for a 2010 spot CJ Retherford - could start at 2B if they ditched Eckstein Charlie Shirek - could compete for a 2010 spot John Shelby - could compete for a 2010 spot Stefan Gartrell - could compete for a 2010 spot Christian Marrero - could compete for a 2010 spot Brent Lillibridge - could compete for a 2010 spot Carlos Torres - could compete for a 2010 spot Brent Morel Jon Gilmore Santos Rodriguez Miguel Gonzalez Charlie Leesman Steven Upchurch Nevin Griffith Gregory Infante etc. At this point I would want Heath Bell in the deal too, which would make a great deal of sense for us anyway, even if we don't trade Jenks. But the point is, the Sox can offer quite a bit, and certainly nothing that other teams would sneeze at. And I still believe that draining the farm for a bat like Gonzalez is acceptable, because you're draining it in exchange for a shot at a World Series title for two consecutive years.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 11:18 AM) Whoever suggested that should get fired on the spot. Why would a team trade a guy like Jenks, whose there closer and historically a very good one, for a guy with an albatross of a contract whose a glorified DH, coming off a horrendous year and who has attitude problems. Oh and I forgot to mention, if the Sox wanted to, they could just opt to let Jenks go. And they won't do that this year, but that would be a better choice than trading for Bradley. Just guessing, but maybe it's the same guy who suggested Peavy for Zambrano?

Under the right deal this could make a ton of sense for Detroit. If they could pull off something like Bonderman + Granderson for Montero, Jackson, and Aceves IMO they'd be retarded not to do it. The Tigers have a bunch of salary coming off the books after 2010 (Maggs, Willis, Bonderman, Inge, Robertson) and dumping Bonderman would let them keep Edwin Jackson in the meantime. From there, they could deal Laird, pick up an all-defense C at the minimum (since Laird's bat isn't worth a whole lot anyway) and split Montero between C and 1B. Austin Jackson could take CF and Aceves could be their 5th starter. Starting pitching is their sole strength and dismantling it will hurt them a lot more than losing Granderson will.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 02:13 PM) I think that this would work from the perspectives of the teams and I would love to see it. Doesn't Konerko have a no trade clause and doesn't want to go east? He has a full NTC as a 10-5 guy but he has said several times before that if the Sox wanted to move him he wouldn't stand in the way of a deal.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) Yeah, I didn't think of this. But I guess it could be possible that Dexter Carter called Dan Hudson. Maybe the info got passed as "A former White Sox prospect that was traded to the Padres for Jake Peavy called Dan Hudson to inform him he might be getting dealt to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez," and Harry or someone else assumed it was Clayton Richard. Harry is a Cubs fan, so I wouldn't put it past him to make that mistake and think it was Clayton Richard... Who knows, just grasping for anything here... Or maybe Clayton Richard went online to bleacherreport.com and found a story detailing how the Sox are in discussions with the Padres on a deal that would send Adrian Gonzalez and Brian Giles in a sign-and-trade to the Sox for Paul Konerko, Dan Hudson, Brian Hynick, Michael Torres, and Batman. Then Richard called Hudson up and told him to look at it, so Hudson checked it out, laughed, called a friend, and by the time the story got to Harry it was a legit deal with Hudson leading the package. Maybe the specifics aren't realistic, but I bet that basic scenario plays out quite often over the course of an offseason.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 01:56 PM) that other message board is WSI and the thread you are referring to was started in reference to this thread =D why don't we merge with those guys.... soxtalkinteractive.com For the same reason you don't just go around opening up stargates. Who knows what would come through to SoxTalk?

QUOTE (spiderman @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 01:44 PM) What makes you think that the Padres are telling Clayton Richard what their plans are, not to mention that Harry from ESPN 1000 isn't exactly the most credible source. Because Clayton Richard keeps secrets, duh. Hudson was the one who f***ed it up when he told a guy who told a guy who told a guy who told Kevin Bacon who told a guy who told Harry from ESPN 1000.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 11, 2009 -> 01:37 PM) The refs did let Miller and Noah both knock Rondo's ass to the ground the next game, hard, with no call. It was all the better that Rondo pretended to be hurt and looked like a little b**** Rondo is a little b****. But anyway, the make-up calls still piss me off. Just call the game fairly and then admit it when you f*** up and try to do better next time. It's really not that hard. Work to create a culture of accuracy as opposed to one where some calls are overlooked, others are made for no reason, etc. There's so much contact in the game that you're not going to get everything right, but at least make the major calls. Like Melo's trip up of Deng last night RIGHT IN FRONT of the officials. Bulls***.

I would do Konerko + Linebrink for Castillo though. We would cut $11M off the books in 2010 and only add $500K in 2011. Castillo really has no worth to us, but maybe we could eat half his contract and send him elsewhere. Castillo at $3M per in 2010 and 2011 might work for someone else.