Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (League @ Nov 5, 2009 -> 11:18 AM) Sox are confirming it, Getz + Fields for Teahen. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/1867251,tea...rade-05.article God damn it... This deal makes no sense at all. Add salary, open a hole at 2B, and we don't even get a prospect. For Mark Teahen. Wonderful.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Nov 5, 2009 -> 11:08 AM) I wouldn't mind it if he were at 2B or 3B, but he sure as s*** better not be in RF. Even with JD sucking nuts for half the season he still put up an OPS 50 points higher than Teahen. I'm really afraid this is another KW sees a guy doing awesome against us and acquires him even though he sucks against everybody else. f*** man if Nix is at 2B and Teahen is at RF we might lose 100 games. f*** even Pods had a higher OPS than Teahen Agree. If Kenny gets Teahen and plans to start him in RF then we need to ambush him with frozen paintballs. But IMO we shouldn't be starting him anywhere. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 5, 2009 -> 11:13 AM) And the award for best lead dramatic actor is... Don't put anything past a man who whose Opening Day CF's for the last four years were Brian Anderson, Darin Erstad, Nick Swisher, and Dewayne Wise. He has a right to be afraid. Very afraid.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Nov 5, 2009 -> 11:01 AM) I think somebody mentioned it earlier. I also saw a few suggestions of him going to SS...which IMO, AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. 2B...absolutely. It all depends what's up Kenny's sleeve (Polanco or Figgins). I seriously doubt Figgins happens though. Agree. Before the offseason began I mentioned Beltre on a reclamation deal with Beckham going to 2B. I'd like that kind of move because it beefs up our IF offense and defense, and it puts Beckham in a spot where he can be elite for the next 10 years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 5, 2009 -> 10:56 AM) I don't know if it has been said or not, but it could be any one of quite a few things. Teahan has played both corner OF spots and 2B/3B. Teahan could play RF and Becks/Ramirez could stay put. You could also slide both Becks and Ramirez over a spot to SS and 2B respectively, while looking for a 3B (Figgins anyone?), or Teahan could play 3B. You could also slide Teahan into LF with TCQ into right, while not touching the IF. Or instead we could just use Teahen as a UT player, you know, because he is one. I don't want this guy starting anywhere, but he would be a great option to rotate around. Kotsay can cover LF, RF, 1B, and occasionally CF in a pinch, while Teahen can cover the OF corners and 3B. That's nice versatility. But both players should be used to give the starters some days off.

Mark Teahen = $3.575M + before he goes to arbitration this winter. For a utility guy. And we're giving up value. Linebrink better be going to Kansas City because Teahen is a borderline bad contract.

I hate this if there's any truth to it. It doesn't make any sense at all. Teahen is a UT player making too much money and Getz is a solid young player at the minimum. Teahen isn't even worth Getz straight up given the difference in salary. And I thought we had payroll constraints? I'll be f***ing pissed if 1/3 of our payroll room goes to Mark f***ing Teahen. We'd better be sending out Linebrink in the deal - and if so, then I love the move.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2009 -> 11:13 AM) I bet Figgins winds up with the Yankees. Where? CF? LF? I think they end up with Holliday. I'll say Damon-Melky-Holliday is their starting OF and they *gasp* try very hard to trade Nick Swisher over the offseason, but find themselves unable to.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 4, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) I really get that feeling too. The kid is special from what I have seen so far. It's only been a month but I miss him already. I can't even imagine what pain his girlfriends must go through while he's on the road collecting more girlfriends. This offseason thing just isn't going to work for me.

I think that whoever offers the best SP prospects should get the deal done IMO. The common favorite would be the Red Sox, but I can also see them hanging on to Buccholz, or, if they must include Buccholz, moving on to Seattle and looking to get Felix. If the Red Sox will not include Clay for a bat, then the Sox can beat their top SP by adding in Hudson IMO. The most dangerous team here would be the Rays I think, if they're interested. The Rays could send out a rotation of Garza-Shields-Niemann while dealing 1 of Price/Davis/Hellickson and work in a third team to send prospects to the Padres for Pena. I doubt anyone could beat 1 of Price/Davis/Hellickson + Pena prospects + more. Why should the Rays consider that? They would cut about $6M off of their payroll in 2010, pick up Gonzalez at $5.5M in 2011 (Pena is a FA after 2010), and that would help them extend Crawford and Upton, if they want to keep both. The Rays also need a closer and could think about going after Heath Bell in the deal.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 09:46 PM) Planning a teams future based on a prospect is a receipt for disaster. See the center field situation with Anderson. Also, you created the 3 yea+ scenario, I didn't. I'm not proposing the Sox sign guys to bad deals just for the hell of it. However, if you are proposing the Sox shouldn't sign someone because of a prospect that put up average numbers in AA, I believe thats a mistake, and a bad way to do business. The CF situation was a disaster because the Sox admittedly called up a CF prospect who wasn't ready. They said he was just there for his D, and then they threw him under the bus when he didn't hit. The following year they had three choices: 1) either play Anderson everyday if they felt he was ready, 2) bring in a stop-gap for a year or so if Anderson wasn't ready, with Anderson playing everyday in the minors and working on his swing, 3) acquire a multi-year option. What did they do? They brought in a stop-gap, but then they benched Anderson for the first part of the season, and they never looked for anything long-term. The year after that, 2008, they traded for a corner OF/1B to play CF. So they still didn't address the issue. After 2006, Anderson didn't get another extended opportunity to play in CF until 2009, and Anderson did NOT spend 2007-2008 developing in the minors, so clearly they didn't see Anderson as a solution, but yet they didn't acquire a solution until they picked up Rios in August. The CF situation did not have ***ANYTHING*** to do with pinning their hopes on a prospect. The CF situation was due to some of the worst organizational mismanagement we've seen from this team in the last decade. The Sox did nothing but f*** it up from 2006-2009. They went to a guy who wasn't ready, then through their actions said he was never in their plans, and yet they still failed to address the issue until 3 and a half seasons later. ATM the Sox shouldn't view Jordan as being ready until 2012. Even if he's ready in 2011, they should attempt to create a situation where Jordan has to work himself in by proving in the minors that he is worthier of an opportunity than whatever veteran we have there at the time. That's why I said 3+ years. And I'm not saying we should use Jordan's presence as a reason not to sign anyone, I'm saying we should look at Jordan and think about what he could give us in 2011 and 2012 and weigh that against what we would be paying for. For example, if we were considering signing Damon as a LF with CQ going to RF, that $6-7M or whatever Damon would ask for is going to help the offense, but it is going to make two OF positions weak defensively, and at least Jordan at the minimum makes our defense a ton better. So would the offensive value of Damon's 2 year+ contract be so much greater than Jordan's production that it would be worth the hits on defense? That's the kind of thing they need to "keep in mind," like the other poster stated.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 08:24 PM) BUT....they're going to keep that in mind when signing FA's this offseason to fill that OF spot, that I'll bet. Agree. QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 08:47 PM) And that would be a mistake. No it wouldn't. Why be pushed into 3+ years on a declining player when you have a prospect only 1-2 years away? If Kenny looks to the market for a FA, he should ideally look for a 1 year deal with an option. Especially with this year's class of players in their mid-30's and above. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 3, 2009 -> 08:51 PM) That sounds nothing like Kenny Williams to me. If he thinks it will make the team better today, he will do it. He said signing, not trading for. If there's a guy out there on the trading block who would project as our starting RF or CF for the next 3+ years then he's not going to worry about Jordan's presence, and I don't think he'd worry about including Jordan in that deal either. But when it comes to FA he will be as cautious as he normally has been, if not more so given the ages of the players out there.

The lefty stick is nice, but I don't want to make a move that puts Carlos in RF. As a DH I think we could do better on the open market. But he is a very nice player. I'd have him on my list, but he'd be pretty far down on it.

Here's how the chase for Gonzalez lines up IMO: Definite suitors: Red Sox - Have the goods, went after him before, want him bad. Probable suitors: White Sox - Will we part with enough? Fills several offseason needs in one fell swoop. A cheap impact implayer for probably the most aggressive GM in baseball. Braves - Have Freeman coming up, but I think they'll go after him hard. They have the need. Can they make a deal without Hanson or Heyward? Dodgers - Have the need. AGonz is better than Manny and Loney combined by a mile. Imagine a lineup of Gonzalez-Manny-Ethier-Kemp 3-6. Devastating. Possible suitors: Rays - This makes a lot of sense with Pena close to FA. A 3-way where Pena goes elsewhere would have the Rays actually cutting salary and improving the team. They have the pieces and are a serious darkhorse IMO. Giants - Have the need and the pieces. Makes sense for them to join the mix. Orioles - Seems unlikely, but I think they're a darkhorse. They've been trying to make a splash for a while now and have a big hole at 1B. They have the pieces, and tons of financial flexibility for a major extension. Possible, but unlikely: Yankees - They're here because they're the Yankees, but I don't think they'd give up enough for a DH since they have Tex at 1B. Plus AGonz probably wouldn't want to stick around to DH when he could be starting in the field elsewhere. Rangers - Have the stuff to do the deal right now, but they won't be handing out an extension, and they're almost completely rebuilt, and they have Smoak on the way. Angels - Not trading the world for a DH after Morales broke through for them. Mets - I don't see them trading what they would have to in order to land Gonzalez. They'll look to spend for improvements. Very unlikely: Mariners - Rebuilding. A's - Rebuilding. Indians - Rebuilding. Tigers - Can't trade the required pieces because they're bogged down with bad contracts. Royals - Rebuilding. Twins - Have Morneau and will concentrate on a Mauer extension this offseason. Blue Jays - Rebuilding. Phillies - Ryan Howard. Could they get in on Halladay again? Nationals - Rebuilding. Marlins - New park won't be ready until 2012 and Adrian is a FA after 2011. Cubs - They're so f***ed with bad contracts that they're unable to deal cheap players. Not a chance. Plus they still have Lee. Brewers - Prince, and their needs are SP. Pirates - Rebuilding. Cardinals - Pujols. Reds - Alonso and Votto are already there and they should be looking for an OF. Rockies - Helton, and they're not dealing their new core. Diamondbacks - Rebuilding. Astros - Berkman, and a deal wouldn't make any sense given all of their needs. Padres' biggest needs (in order IMO): top-end SP, toolsy OF, C, top-end RP, 3B, 2B. They have Latos at the front of their future rotation, Cabrera at SS, Venable in a corner somewhere, and Blanks at 1B. Kouzmanoff, Bell, and Young shouldn't be factors because if AGonz is for sale, all of those guys will be too.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Nov 2, 2009 -> 08:20 PM) If the consistent performers of the team didn't want a vocal leader why do you want to piss them off? Seems to me that if you have someone who can't get fired up playing Major League ball, some dick yelling at him isn't going to make him play better. Not everyone responds the same way to everything. A player should perform on his own and it's respectable to get pissed at a guy for yelling at you. Any blame for 2009 should be assigned for a lack of talent on the team. They lined up pretty evenly with the projections going into the year. If the vets are hitting then they can b**** about vocal leadership all they want. If they're not hitting, STFU. Ozzie should hang a big sign in the clubhouse that says "Play Well or STFU." I agree in some ways about blaming the season on the lack of talent out there (and also the learning experiences the young guys went through) but there was still quite a bit of talent out there offensively. Watching Paulie, Jermaine, Thome, AJ, etc. hand their starters losses and no decisions after great outings because they couldn't get a hit off a bunch of rookies and 6th starters was pathetic. Linebrink was garbage in the second half and he has all kinds of talent as a reliever. They still had enough talent to take 87 games in a bad division IMO.

Lip is a good guy. He should post here. As for the clubhouse leadership issue, just win. Just play up to your abilities, work as a team on the field, and don't get caught doing s*** off the field that becomes a distraction for the rest of the team. But that said, any veterans taking exception to Getz's energy comments can STFU and GTFO. He may have only hit in the .260's as a rookie, but he hustled out there and he didn't take his role for granted. If you bust your ass down the line and beat out a single because the SS was sleeping, then I don't care if you blow off your teammate's birthday party after the game because you were out late cruising for hookers. Just don't get caught.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 2, 2009 -> 12:23 PM) I like Javy, he's a dominant K-pitcher, but he pissed himself in big games, and i like Flowers more. No regrets. I agree. Javy is a nice guy to have towards the back of a rotation, and he's worth his contract given his ability to dominate and eat innings, but you can't count on him when it matters. We received very good value out of Javy so there shouldn't be any regrets.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 2, 2009 -> 12:06 PM) Javier Vazquez is a very good pitcher. But, we won't rtrade for him IMO not becasue as some say he choked when he needed to step up, but because he will command a good price. Javier did great with Bobby Cox who knows how to handle pitchers. Ozzie says he learned alot from Cox and maybe he has some more learning to do frfom Bobby Cox in regards to handling sensitive souls like Javier. Ugh, how long are people going to keep on posting this stuff? Ozzie handled Javy just fine in 2007. Did Ozzie's personality suddenly change 180 degrees in 2008, or did Javy simply flunk under pressure like usual? And why do people assume Javy even cares when his manager b****es him out. They interviewed the guy during his 2008 collapse and he didn't seem too worried. He said, "You know what? It’s not going to [change a lot of opinions] because I’m really the type of guy that when I retire, I’m going to be home in Puerto Rico with my family. I’m not looking to have to change minds if people feel that way." If the Braves keep Javy, and they end up contending for the division in 2010, and if Javy once again blows when it counts, then guess who is going to be on Javy's ass? Bobby Cox isn't as psycho as Ozzie, but you're not going to find him babying ballplayers either.

This offseason sucks already. This thread shouldn't have gotten more than 4 responses, but watch it turn into 15 pages.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 2, 2009 -> 01:32 AM) Why do people continue to think the Fish are just going to give Ross away? Don't you think they realize he is affordable, good, and young? I don't think they're going to just give him away, but I think he could be had without us having to give up our best pieces.

http://619sports.net/3353/hey-padres-do-not-deal-adrian/ The Red Sox will be tough to beat out, but I think they want Felix more, and they won't have enough to acquire both.

QUOTE (MnSoxFan @ Oct 28, 2009 -> 02:53 PM) Paulo Orlando? Anderson Gomes is another one. Anderson supposedly had real talent though, but I still wonder if he was another Wilder case. He was a former pitcher in Japan that got hurt and converted to an outfielder, but his high bonus seems fishy in retrospect given what was going on at the time.

I'll be upset if we don't go after Cody Ross. He's such a perfect target for us. He's affordable, good, young, and shouldn't cost a ton in trade chips. Trade for Ross and bring back Kotsay. That way we always have a strong defensive OF because when Rios needs a day off Ross can cover CF, and when Ross needs a day off Kotsay can take RF. Makes too much sense to me.

Javy has already played for 5 organizations, 4 of which are located east of the Mississippi, so the options of teams close to his home in Puerto Rico where he'll go to relax once he's retired are thinning out. I can't see the Braves trading him to the Mets or Phillies. The Yankees won't want him back. The Indians, Orioles, Blue Jays, Marlins, Pirates and Nats are probably out of the question. Tampa doesn't need extra starting pitching, and the Cubs and Reds probably don't have the money. My guess is the Red Sox, Tigers, Astros, or Brewers, but what hitters could the Braves get there? Corey Hart? Mike Lowell? Marcus Thames or Ryan Raburn? Carlos Lee and cash? Not a lot of great options there.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 31, 2009 -> 02:54 PM) No one is going to offer him more than half of what he got last year. Agree, and I think he'll get even less as a base, like $4-5M tops, but I could see him getting up to about $8M+ maybe if he reaches all his incentives or something.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 31, 2009 -> 12:27 PM) The people on here who claim Dye is the worst thing in right field since a statue would disagree. No way should Dye ever step foot in an outfield again they probably would say. I wouldn't mind a change and trying somebody besides Dye. We are going to miss his production, though, meaning his 'usual' production, not that second half lousiness. Our lineup and bullpen need some huge tinkering or we are again not a .500 team next year. Isn't that an oxymoron? You're right though. Our current team as it stands is not good enough to compete with those juggernaut 2010 Twins and Tigers teams. I hear the Tigers are going to bring back Adam Everett and the great Orlando Cabrera might even return to Minnesota for - get this - a full season. The Indians are going to be a force too when Matt Laporta makes up for the Lee, Sabathia, and VMart deals all by himself, and 2010 should be the dreaded Year of the Hochevar. I know, my knees are shaking too. Kenny better hurry up and overpay for a veteran in decline to DH and a couple spotty relievers or else we're doomed.