Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 12:47 PM) ^^^ It sounds like that report was a little premature. Apparently the Sox just aren't that excited to have Scott back. Like a lot of us, they just don't feel like he can duplicate his 2009 again. Or play the field. Even with Rios in CF, we'd still be looking at Pods-Rios-CQ which is atrocious defensively.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 12:41 PM) They'll re-sign Podsednik and pickup either Thome or Blalock to DH and call it an offseason lineup wise, this will make it very hard for me to go into next year with an optimistic outlook. Are we the Twins? Because that's a Twins-like offseason, and as bad as it looks right now, I can't see the Sox being that inept. If so, Kenny will be wondering aloud yet again why the fans aren't showing up. Is it because of the economy? Is it because I built a s***ty baseball team? Hmmmm......

If AJ doesn't want to teach Flowers then bring in a veteran backup and ship Flowers' roidy ass out of here. AJ is da bomb.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 10:10 AM) The rational part of my mind tells me that Danks needs to stay in the minors for another year, but the prospect whore part of me wants him their opening day. I think we might be able to afford that gamble assuming we can get some legitimate pop for the DH. I agree and I want Jordan in the minors next year. However, you have to look at the alternatives too. If the Sox are thinking about giving a bunch of money to a veteran who is either a liability in the field or at the plate, they may as well just save their money and run Jordan out there. I hope it doesn't come to that though. There are other cheap defensive solutions out there, which is pretty much what Jordan would be at this point, and the salary these guys cost should be worth it just to give Jordan the extra year of development. If Danks isn't ready then they shouldn't bring him up for cost concerns because we've seen this movie before, and last time it was The Brian Anderson Story.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 09:36 AM) Where are you reading that? Where am I reading what? There has been all kinds of talk from the Sox about improving their defense, and there was just a blurb that came out saying the Sox are back in on Pods. Please don't do it, Kenny. Kotsay was a good baseball move, but Pods however is not.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 11:21 AM) It was Paulie and Jenks I believe. That's even nuttier. We're dumping almost $20M on the Mets and we expect to get FMart back? Yeah, that's not happening.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) I'd still prefer a better return for PK. Certainly, if dumping his money could assure a lateral move, i'd get on board, i'm just not sure it would. I'd love a better return for Paulie too, but at his salary it's not happening. I'm not overrating Murphy either, I just can't see Paulie bringing back even that much unless we take on salary or eat salary. Paulie is probably about a $7-8M player in this market and he's getting paid $12M.

Good lord Kenny, please stay the f*** away from Pods already. You were just talking about defense, now you're talking with Pods again. Leave him alone.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 09:01 AM) You would trade one of the faces of the organization for Daniel Murphy and Fernando Martinez? I'll tell you what, you better have Adrian Gonzalez in a trade the very next day or you'll have an empty ball park IMHO. That trade is only unlikely because it would be one of Kenny's biggest steals in his history as a general manager. A more accurate deal would be Paulie to the Mets for basically nothing, or Paulie + cash to the Mets for Murphy. Clearing $12M off the payroll while adding that much talent in return for a player like Paulie is a pipedream.

I'd offer up Hudson + Flowers + Viciedo + D2 + any 2 other players on the farm. If we win it all in 2010 or 2011 while Adrian is here on a minuscule salary then we get to bump up the payroll beyond that point which would alleviate much of the concern about needing these pre-arb players for future Sox teams. We would also be getting the best player in the deal, and the chances are very slim that any of these guys go on to become as valuable as Gonzalez is right now. It's always risky when you trade promising prospects for veterans, but this is the kind of guy that it makes sense to take such risks over. It's one thing to give up a very talented prospect for a back-end starter, or a middle reliever, or an average position player. It's another to pick up one of the premier hitters in all of baseball. Basically, I'd never worry about what these guys MIGHT become because I'd be too busy watching the Beckham-Gonzalez-Quentin trio rip up the American League. For those who would disregard that, think back to the Red Sox having a prime (and roided-up) Ortiz and Manny hitting back-to-back. That's the kind of punch we'd have with Quentin fully healthy (which he should be now over a year after his wrist surgery) and Gonzalez. Plus, if we could find a way to move Paulie and clear some space, we could sign some spare parts to beef up the defense with CQ moving to DH to keep healthy. Pick up Coco Crisp to play LF for about $3M or so, get a strong defensive RF, and now we've got one of the strongest defenses in baseball to go with a nasty rotation and a balanced lineup with a potent middle of the order. The bullpen would be the only questionmark, but at least there is physical talent there.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 03:32 PM) He made $3.575M last year (which is not almost $4M), he'll be lucky to get $4.5M in arbitration. I hope you're right.

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 03:11 PM) The problem is... now that Toronto has fired Riccardi the odds of them giving up something for nothing has gone down dramatically. Over bay is Over paid. If they want to move him and still get something in return they'll have to either eat salary or take on a bad contract. If another team assumes his entire contract, expect them to receive nothing of value.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 02:04 PM) Why would Toronto want to make this deal...? Because Overbay isn't all that great and he's making $7M for a team that is looking to cut payroll and rebuild. I imagine any team willing to take on his entire 2010 salary could pick him up for a couple non-prospects like McCulloch and Armstrong.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 02:04 PM) The Sox are probably going to end up paying Teahen right around $2-2.5 mill. That isn't a huge chunk of change. Teahen made almost $4M last year and will be hitting arb again. We're getting $1M from KC which should have us paying around $4M. That is a huge chunk of change when we're only looking at (from the sounds of it) a few million left to spend this offseason.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 12:40 PM) If you throw in Linebrink, maybe they also send a moderate prospect back with Overbay? I don't think Linebrink has any positive value. On the open market he'd probably get 2/$5M or less, but his contract still pays him 2/$10.5M. I wonder if the Jays would do something like Linebrink + Santeliz + Infante + $2M in 2011 for Overbay.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 12:23 PM) Don't forget step D) Profit! That's step A actually. Just move the other ones down a peg.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 07:17 AM) National league putouts... 2000- Left - 4768 --- Right - 5425 2001- Left - 4719 --- Right - 5225 2002- Left - 4765 --- Right - 5135 2003- Left - 4756 --- Right - 5206 2004- Left - 4616 --- Right - 5201 2005- Left - 4823 --- Right - 5235 2006- Left - 4927 --- Right - 5280 2007- Left - 5016 --- Right - 5473 2008- Left - 5473 --- Right - 5283 Dating back from 1959 until 2008... Left - 199620 --- Right - 209284 American league putouts... 2000- Left - 4692 --- Right - 4678 2001- Left - 4673 --- Right - 4531 2002- Left - 4674 --- Right - 4601 2003- Left - 4722 --- Right - 4595 2004- Left - 4466 --- Right - 4837 2005- Left - 4578 --- Right - 4624 2006- Left - 4431 --- Right - 4771 2007- Left - 4605 --- Right - 4508 2008- Left - 4473 --- Right - 4683 Dating back from 195 until 2008... Left - 219785 --- Right - 218861 So since 1959, excluding this past season... There have been 419405 putouts in left and 428145 in right. Just curious, where did you go to find those stats? It's pretty awesome that this stuff is counted.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 12:18 PM) Agreed, not to say that Getz was a non-factor in this, just that he was more of a means to an end here. I think the three step process was A) Get Mark Teahen B) Trade Josh Fields C) Get Beckham to 2b. It would be more like A) Move Beckham to 2B, because Beckham is by far the most important player in the conversation B) Get Teahen C) Try to trade Josh Fields before we have to DFA him anyway prior to the Rule-5 draft

PS what is it with the Sox and all this "gap hitter" nonsense? This team needs some f***ing power. We already have the King of Gap Hitters and we just moved him to 2B.

It doesn't sound like we even have $7M to spend in the first place, but if we did, I damn sure wouldn't spend it on Lyle Overbay. Give them some prospects and Linebrink or no deal IMO.

Peavy and Rios are here to stay. Trading Buehrle and relying on Hudson is stupid, as is trading AJ and relying on Flowers. The Sox aren't trading Buehrle anyway and I'd be pretty shocked if they traded AJ and let a rookie command one of the best starting staffs they've ever had. Nobody is taking Linebrink unless we take on an equal or greater bad contract, so that's not going to help us. Even if the NTC isn't a factor, Paulie's contract will be hard to move without eating money, and the alternatives probably aren't all that great. For example, if we eat about $4M on Paulie and sign Nick Johnson for $5.5, we only cut $2.5M off the payroll and find ourself counting big time on an injury-prone player. Plus Paulie is a FA after 2010 and it probably makes a lot more sense to keep Paulie and let his deal expire than it does to eat money, trade him, and then sign an old free agent to a multi-year contract. Then we'll just be stuck with another Paulie situation in 2011. Given our payroll situation somebody has to go, and Bobby is the only big contract left. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to sell low on him, or to weaken the bullpen, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to spend a large chunk of our offseason change on Mark Teahen either, and yet we already did that.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) One typically wants more range in LF than RF, as more balls are hit there. That's why Quentin's UZR is so much higher in RF (most right fielders are slower than left fielders). I don't understand why somebody who "doesn't know where to throw the ball after making a play" is OK in LF, but a big no-no in RF. If that's your argument, he shouldn't be playing anywhere in the outfield. I've gone on about this here before, but basically what I'd ideally look for is a RF who can play CF or a CF who can play RF, that way we've always got both options when someone needs a day off. I'm not a fan of Carlos' range anywhere, but at least in left his arm is an asset. In RF he doesn't bring much of anything. Even if he can be average, I want better than that for a change. It would be nice to go into opposing ballparks and catch the ball.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 02:00 PM) Boers and Berstein are talking about how Pods wanted a 2 year 15 million dollar deal. LMAO, seriously? Reading Kenny's comments made me think Pods was looking for something like 2 years, $6M. That would even be too much for me. If Pods gets 2/$15M then he needs to quit baseball and become a full-time agent pronto because not even Borass would be able to get him that.

If he's cheap enough and would be a full-time DH, then yes, definitely. He's a great hitter.

QUOTE (buckweaver @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 01:54 PM) I asked this a while back and didn't get a response, but this is an appropriate thread to ask again. Does anyone share my belief that Kenny dropped the ball when he signed Pods this year by not including/insisting on a reasonable club option for 2010? I am firmly in the "In Kenny We Trust" camp, but I think this was simply a mistake. Pods was watching TV at home, released by the Rockies and had no other great options (if he did, he wouldn't have come back to Charlotte). Kenny had all the cards, so to insist on a club consideration in the event he had they type of year he indeed ended up having, would have been a no-brainer. Now if we want him back, we pay his price. In hindsight it would have been a smart thing to do, but I think Kenny initially looked at Pods as a stopgap for a couple of weeks or so, that's about it, so he probably didn't put any thought into it.