Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (knightni @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) http://bleacherreport.com/articles/232128-...t-change-the-nl Questionable journalism. The bleacher report is the worst place you could ever go to find information on something. This particular blog says "sources" have said the Giants got him, but nothing is listed. As usual. Every year that site is responsible for playstation trade ideas and ridiculously bad rumors across every major sport. You don't even need a 3rd grade education or a passable understanding of the English language to write garbage for that s***hole.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 04:51 PM) Wise has been the last guy off of the bench since Kotsay got here. Wise would be gone in a heartbeat. Wishful thinking IMO. Just like the Peavy deal and Pods performing at a very high level, I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe the Sox can come to a compromise and let Wise go but hang a few Kim Jong Il-style banners up around the park so we never forget he's watching us.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 04:44 PM) Dude, you didn't hear? Wagner was recently diagnosed with a rare form of Clubhouse Cancer. Its inoperable and is pure FACT I heard he tried to host a benefit alongside Brian Anderson and Elijah Dukes but somehow the fliers never got out and all the organizers ended up dead or pregnant.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 04:47 PM) Acquiring Rios wouldn't necessarily mean the end of Wise's stay I'd imagine. If the Sox get Rios then Kotsay is probably on the way out. Wise goes nowhere. And watch Wise start in CF over Rios, too.

There's a lot of speculation that we never landed on the moon. I'd be in heaven if I found out tomorrow that Kenny got Rios and is also the one in on Wagner. Imagine adding those two guys plus Peavy for the stretch run! Pipe dream I know, but Detroit would be dead and f***ing buried. Jarrod Washburn LMAO, eat that Murder City.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 04:24 PM) Does the team with the "winning" claim find out how many other teams put in claims for the player? Even though that team has the sole shot at working out a trade, I can see it affecting the negotiations. With Rios, for example, the Blue Jays could ask for a lot more in trade, I imagine, if 8 teams put in a waiver claim versus 1 (i.e. "we know that a lot of teams were interested, so we may wait until the offseason to trade him if we can't agree on a deal"). I wouldn't imagine that the claiming team finds out or really even cares because if you win the claim he's yours to deal for and the rest don't matter. From the Jays standpoint, I would imagine they'd find out, but maybe not, I don't know. And of course you have to consider that if say 8 teams claimed him, maybe only 1 would be willing to give up talent for him and the other 7 just put in the claim thinking they'd pick him up for his contract only. Either way, if the Jays want something they'll have to wait for the offseason anyway in order to negotiate with everyone for the best offer. But the risk there is that there may be so many good bargains out there on 1-year deals that nobody is willing to trade anything more for him. Or even worse, from the Jays' perspective, what if the Jays pull back the claim this year and then Rios breaks his leg over the offseason? If the Jays NEED to clear that salary, they should first ask for talent from the team with the winning claim, and if that team isn't willing to give up anything, they should just go ahead and dump Rios' contract on them rather than take the chance over the season. You never know what can happen and if ownership wants the salary gone I imagine they'd be extremely pissed if the GM passed on an opportunity to ditch the full contract no strings attached. In fact, in this case, ownership could even demand they dump the salary if the financial situation for them is that dire.

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 04:10 PM) Have you seen Wagner pitch with the Mets??? Don't throw career stats at me. He was ran out of Houston and Philly. He was/is hated in NY. He is a locker room cancer. The above are facts. Facts? I posted stats. Those are indisputable facts. You post hearsay and rumors, not facts. BTW Carl Everett, Frank Thomas, and AJ have all been called clubhouse cancers and yet we won a World Series with all of them on the same team. Reading about how a player is considered a cancer doesn't mean he is one. No, I haven't seen Wagner pitch a ton with the Mets, but I've seen him pitch throughout his career and he has been awesome. I don't know what you were looking at but those 2008 numbers are ELITE and his stuff is also ELITE so I wouldn't trust your opinion on him anyway. He made 45 appearances in 2008 and 38 of them were scoreless. You're going to have a very hard time convincing anyone other than yourself that Wagner isn't awesome when healthy - and over his career he's been very durable.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 04:12 PM) That's exactly how I understood it. So, if only one team put in a claim for Rios (if that is true, who knows), then you can say that only one team wants him. Everyone, I thought, has a chance to put in a claim. Yeah you've got right. The waiver stuff is always kept under wraps a lot better because it all involves MLB players and GM's can do their own video scouting and make their own decisions, so you don't have like a thousand scouts involved and then reporters all following those guys around looking for information. And you don't get all the BS rumors this time of year either, and on and on. Plus the waiver wire is always flooded with players. So even though one source says only one claim was made, or at least insinuates that only one claim was made, there could have been a bunch. The number of teams that claim a player and the identity of those teams is really irrelevant though since only the team that is awarded the claim matters.

BTW I'd love to get Rios but I don't think it's us. JR already authorized the Peavy contract so I can't see him authorizing this too in the same season.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 04:00 PM) Do they actually go one at a time (from worst to best), then stop once a team puts in a claim? I thought every team has an opportunity to put in a claim, and then when the process is over, you look to see who "wins, e.g., who has the worst record among the claiming teams. Any team can make a claim. The claim is then awarded to the team that is highest on the list. Rios may have been claimed by 3-4 teams for all we know, but unless the team that is awarded the player makes a deal within the alloted time period (think it's like 24-48 hours or so) the player cannot be traded to any other team, even if other teams also make claims.

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 03:25 PM) Wagner couldn't get guys out before the injury. A year off isn't going to fix that fact. Great argument. Wagner's career numbers: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wagnebi02.shtml Wagner's 2008: 47 IP, 2.30 ERA, 27 SV, 0.89 WHIP, 6.1 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 1.9 BB/9, 10.0 K/9, 5.20 K/BB; All-Star Wagner's career: 818 IP, 2.40 ERA, 385 SV, 1.01 WHIP, 6.1 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 11.7 K/9, 3.95 K/BB; 6-time All-Star, two top-6 Cy Young finishes You sure do know what you're talking about.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 02:00 PM) I don't know if I'd give up Shelby, but a lesser guy and the financial agreement that you cited about might be worth it. But I'd REALLY need to see evidence that Wagner can still pitch before pulling the trigger. If the article is correct when it says he's been hitting 94 on his rehab assignment then that's probably good enough given his career control. He only has pitched 3 innings so far this year but he has 4 K's and has 0 BB, 0 HBP, 0 WP, and has just given up 1 hit. So it seems like his control is there and if he has it this soon after coming back it's probably a good bet that he'll keep it. I'd give up Shelby because I've never been a huge fan. Because of his K rate, lack of power, and inability to play a lock-down CF it will be very tough for him to stick in the Majors, even as a 4th OF. He does have tools though so maybe someone would like to take a shot. Also Fields, Lillibridge, and Cole Armstrong could be buy-low PTBNL candidates but again the Mets wouldn't be able to get one of those guys until 9/1.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 01:45 PM) After thinking about it more, I deleted the post that you cited and wrote a new one. See above. Agreed that it will "only" cost non-roster prospects, but I'm not sure that the Sox want to deal those either. It would have to be a pretty mediocre prospect, IMO. Yeah I saw that. For what he'd cost, I'm thinking more along the lines of Link/DRod/Kuhn/Ely/Anthony Carter/Egbert, etc. Give them a MR, UT, 5th starter prospect or two. He shouldn't cost a higher ceiling guy. If he's looking really good maybe he'd cost us Harrell/Retherford/Shirek, etc. If the Mets wanted to play hardball (kind of) the Sox could offer to pay about $1M this year, split the buyout ($500K), and give them Shelby and a lesser name. That's better than nothing.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 01:30 PM) If Wagner can still pitch effectively, the Mets have little incentive to eat all of his salary. And in the highly-unlikely scenario that they would, they want a good package of prospects in return. Either way, it's not in the Sox's interest to pursue him. They can likely find a much cheaper LHP somewhere else. And anybody that they're able to acquire right now would have to clear waivers anyway. Wagner is actually an ideal target for a few reasons: #1 Waivers: If a good NL lefty gets put on waivers he's not even getting to the AL, much less the Sox. If a good AL lefty hits waivers he's probably not getting to the Sox either, especially if we're leading the division at the time. Wagner should safely clear because if anyone claims him the Mets will dump his entire contract. Once he clears, the Mets are allowed to negotiate with any team in baseball. #2 Cost: He's not going to bring a bevy in prospects. He hasn't pitched since last year and is not going to qualify for compensation. He'll be bought out after the season. No one is going to give up great cost for him. #3 Waivers + Cost: Any team that acquires him will have to refrain from dealing a player on the 40-man because that player would also have to clear waivers, either that or the player will have to be made a PTNBL and the deal will have to be completed on Sept. 1. So it is probably going to cost non-roster prospects, and no one is going to give up anything all that great to get him. Also I disagree on the Mets having little incentive to eat his salary. If they can save a bit of money in the process and also get a prospect or two in return, that is better than nothing. They are currently 11th in the Wild Card standings and 9 games back, also they're 4th in their division and 11 games back there. The Mets have no reason to keep him for this season and no reason to keep him beyond that point as they have both KRod and Putz.

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 01:06 PM) God I hope not. Who would you rather having coming in against a tough lefty in the 6th or 7th inning of a playoff game: Randy Williams or Billy Wagner? If he comes cheap enough I'd be all for it. Thornton is the only good lefty we have and I don't think we could afford to use him situationally when he's our best setup man. After Randy Williams, because of the Peavy trade, we almost literally have nothing at all. 2 more non-prospects in Wes Whisler and Mike Johnston are in Charlotte and if you actually want to go down the system, the closest left-handed pitching prospect we have is Charlie Leesman in Kannapolis. I'd be shocked if Kenny isn't looking for a second lefty and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he is the one after Wagner.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 12:20 PM) Then why would the Mets eat his entire salary? Because there's still a buyout on top of that. Even if they eat his full contract for this season there's still another $1M after that. Even if he's healthy and throwing well I doubt anyone is going to assume all or even most of that. Wagner isn't getting arb and is going to be bought out so the Mets would just be trying to get something out of him instead of nothing. The contract is already a sunk cost so eating 2009 salary shouldn't be an issue for them.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 11:46 AM) An expensive reliever coming off injury? Pass! He wouldn't be expensive if the Mets ate the rest of his deal, which they would have to do to trade him in the first place. According to the article he's hitting 94 on the gun. If that's true then he's already better than Randy Williams.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 7, 2009 -> 11:54 AM) I can't believe the Mets would pay us enough to make it worth it, unless we gave them something pretty useful in return, and really, why would we want to give them something useful? They're not going to give us $10 million and Wagner for McCullough or something like that; for that kind of money they would want someone who could actually help them. We got Ramon Castro and something like $2M of salary savings or whatever for Lance freaking Broadway. It shouldn't take much. If the Sox offer to cover or split the $1M buyout plus give them a halfway decent prospect then we should be able to get him unless someone else offers something better.

I'm taking: Penn 4th round stoppage (REALLY rooting for KenFlo and I actually in my heart think he's winning, but can't bet against BJ at 155) Anderson TKO round 2 Hendricks decision Almeida sub round 3 Pellegrino decision Riley via sloppy decision McCrory 2nd round TKO (love this guy) Leites 1st round sub Riddle decision Emerson decision Villefort TKO 3rd round Torres KO round 1 Benavidez sub round 2 Lamas decision Mizugaki KO/TKO round 3 Vazquez sub round 3 Garcia TKO 2nd round Hicks SD Paixao sub round 2 Ratcliff decision Yahya decision Nunes decision Edit: Really hoping we get to see McCrory-Howard and Lennox-Villefort on the main card of 102. Ditto with Garcia-Massouh, Paixao-Province and Hicks-Roller for the WEC show. And it's f***ing amazing that Showtime-LC Davis is on the prelims. That fight HAS to be bumped up to the main card. I mean I just can't see how it wouldn't be on there and I assume at the last minute they'll announce that fight has been added to the main card.

Prediction time! Who do you guys got? Here are the cards for this weekend (c/o MMA Weekly which I'm not supposed to be able to copy but I can with google chrome): UFC 101 Main Card Bouts: -B.J. Penn (13-5-1; #3 Lightweight)* vs. Kenny Florian (12-3; #6 Lightweight)* -Anderson Silva (24-4; #1 Middleweight)* vs. Forrest Griffin (18-5; #3 Light Heavyweight)* -Amir Sadollah (5-0) vs. Johny Hendricks (5-0) -Ricardo Almeida (10-3) vs. Kendall Grove (12-5) -Kurt Pellegrino (13-4) vs. Josh Neer (25-7-1) Preliminary Bouts: -Aaron Riley (27-11-1) vs. Shane Nelson (12-3) -Tamdan McCrory (11-2) vs. John Howard (11-4) -Alessio Sakara (13-7) vs. Thales Leites (14-2) -Matt Riddle (3-1) vs. Dan Cramer (3-1) -George Sotiropoulos (11-3) vs. Rob Emerson (8-7) -Jesse Lennox (10-1) vs. Danillo Villefort (9-2) WEC 42 Main Card Bouts: -Miguel Torres (37-1; #1 Bantamweight)* vs. Brian Bowles (7-0; #2 Bantamweight)* -Joseph Benvidez (10-0) vs. Dominick Cruz (13-1) -Ricardo Lamas (6-0) vs. Danny Castillo (7-1) -Takeya Mizugaki (11-3-2; #4 Bantamweight)* vs. Jeff Curran (29-11-1) Preliminary Bouts: -Javier Vazquez (13-2) vs. LC Davis (13-2) -Leonard Garcia (12-4; #8 Featherweight)* vs. Jameel Massouh (21-5) -Fredson Paixao (8-3) vs. Cole Province (5-1) -Marcus Hicks (8-2) vs. Shane Roller (5-2) -Phil Cardella (8-3) vs. Ed Ratcliff (6-1) -John Hosman (13-4-1) vs. Rani Yahya (14-4) -Diego Nunes (12-0) vs. Rafael Dias (12-5-1)

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...from_tommy.html The first thing I thought of reading this is that it's probably Kenny. Kenny has tried to get Wagner before (and Kenny usually he gets his guy, even if it comes after his target's prime) and he was also looking for a power lefty reliever before the deadline. Plus Kenny isn't afraid to deal for a player on the DL and he has also dealt with Minaya earlier this year. I wonder if Kenny is that one contender? Wagner will be back in September and shouldn't cost anything much in prospects with the Mets picking up most of his salary. He'll probably be nothing like the Wagner before surgery, but he could be better than Randy Williams.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 6, 2009 -> 09:57 PM) Linebrink isn't going anywhere with Dotel exiting the team... Who knows, they might have to try Pena as a starter again if they don't have any money left to spend on the 5th starter, Hudson/Torres are deemed NOT ready and they decide to leave Carrasco in the long relief role. Or we could try Yadel Marti to replace Jose. I'll eat my dog if they try to make Pena a starter. Hudson not being ready might force them to make a move, but Torres probably isn't a factor regardless. He'll probably be minor league depth with a chance to fill a bullpen or 6th starter role, but the team will probably be filled out without him in the picture. Marti doesn't sound all that exciting. There should be better options for a 5th starter in FA. For 2010, I would guess we're looking at our top 4 plus Hudson, so unless someone gets hurt I wouldn't anticipate another rotation move. As for our bullpen, we've got Nunez here and there is Link, DRod, Fernando Hernandez, Harrell if they move him to the pen, Omogrosso (on the DL, but ended in Charlotte) etc. all already in Charlotte. Behind them there is Santeliz in AA and Nathan Jones should be promoted pretty soon, and both of those guys could make fast moves because of their arms. It may take a while to find a replacement, but all should be ready for a shot in 2010, and I'd be absolutely shocked if none of those guys ended up sticking. Overall, I'd say we're not exactly in dire straits as far as pitching goes.

QUOTE (Stocking @ Aug 6, 2009 -> 03:23 AM) Gordon Beckham is becoming what Hawk always thought Alex Gordon would be. Its amazing how lucky we got to get Beckham at eight. Prospects are such a crap shoot, I say crown him. If the 2008 draft was redone today, not only would Beckham have gone much higher but D2, Hudson, and DCarter would have been way up there too - maybe not first round, but definitely up there. That draft was sooooo desperately needed.

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Aug 5, 2009 -> 11:21 PM) I've never seen a White Sox prospect go from low A to AAA in one season, awesome. Charlotte will be a nice challenge for him. Oney Guillen > Dan Hudson Oney went from Great Falls to Charlotte in the same season.

I hope Carrasco stays in the pen. He's waaay too valuable in that role for us to move him out of there. It's not like he'd come in as a starter and start blowing people away. It's not like he's our Phil Hughes or anything. The risk of overworking the rest of the pen for a few days in his absence far outweighs the benefit of a couple mediocre starts. Just call up Torres, Hudson, Whisler, Harrell, etc. Doesn't really matter which one unless we need to permanently replace Contreras. And if we do have to permanently replace Count, hopefully we can get Garland back for next to nothing. The DBacks are on the hook for Garland's buyout after this year so if we agree to take on the rest of his salary this year and then split the buyout like in the Griffey deal, we should be able to get him for a couple mediocre prospects. Doug Davis might be a better option, but Garland should be cheapest and is the most likely external option IMO given his relationship with the DBacks FO.