Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 5, 2009 -> 01:23 PM) ...check out Jeff Francouer's rookie stats and remember how people were so ga-ga over him too... .300/.336/.549/.885 70 GP, 272 AB, 14 HR, 20 2B, 1 3B, 45 RBI, 11BB it would seem like the lack of walks and reliance on homers made this predictable, but Francoeur was hitting .300 over 70 games with a ton of doubles...doesn't that sound familiar? His career line is currently a disappointing .266/.308/.424/.732 and the power numbers have been relatively down since 06 - just 82 career homers. So what happened to Jeff Francouer? Couldn't the same thing happen to Beckham? You've nicely overlooked the K ratio. Beckham as a rookie: 6.46 AB/K Francoeur as a rookie: 4.43 AB/K Beckham has always been and will always be a much better contact hitter. Getz is actually a better comparison to Beckham than Francouer is, and Getz is still a really bad comparison. IMO Beckham will be a lot more like Chase Utley.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 26, 2009 -> 09:52 AM) The definition of a finesse pitcher. He's got decent stuff, but his success comes from changing speeds and good location. So wait, now anyone who changes speeds is a finesse guy? I don't understand that. That's what pitchers are supposed to do, i.e. pitch and not throw. So because he uses his intelligence go from an average or below pitcher with good stuff to an ace, now you don't want him?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 26, 2009 -> 09:51 AM) even though they might quite easily be giving up the two best players in the trade? really? Lee is the best player in the deal, then Kazmir. Brignac is the best prospect in the deal. It's the Seattle part that is stupid, I mean you don't get an arm like Kazmir for Morrow and Clement. That's just retarded.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 26, 2009 -> 09:24 AM) Seriously, why would Tampa make that trade? Trade a guy that has struggled mainly with his command this year, along with one of their best prospects for Cliff Lee. I just can't believe an organization like Tampa Bay would have given up on someone that quickly. He's been injured and struggled with his command. S***, he was one misplaced fastball away from losing to a perfect game 1-0. I do not believe the trade rumors surrounding Kazmir until I hear some type of legitimate, under contact talent going back to Tampa Bay as well. Crazy thing is that I compared Floyd to Kazmir this year. Who's laughing now? I think normally they'd want to keep Kazmir, especially since he's signed through 2012 if they pick up the option, but I could also seem them going all out to stay in the race this year and have a shot at the playoffs again. Maybe they're afraid that if the Rays don't stay in it all year, everything they did last season will be for naught and they'll be back to the old Rays again as far as ticket sales and fan interest. Also, if any of these reports are to be believed, a lot of teams are acting weird this year. Why would the Rays part with Kazmir, or the Angels Weaver or Saunders, or the Yankees Chamberlain, or maybe even us with Floyd, etc. for a guy under contract for a year and a half (in the case of both Halladay and Lee)? It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but whatever. This rumor is definitely bulls***, but there have been reports that the Rays are willing to talk about Kazmir and they're looking for an ace. A completely different deal that nets them Lee while sending out Kazmir could still be a possibility.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 26, 2009 -> 06:27 AM) That may just indeed happen after all. A lot will be decided by the 29th when the Minnesota series wraps up. But if we are 5-6 games back by July 31st, i'd say lets start unloading some of the veterans. That being said. If KW is going to make a big splash and go for it, today is a must win. I wonder if the Braves were scouting Dye under the possibility that on July 31st the Sox look to be out and the Braves look to be in it. I can't imagine Kenny pulling off anything even slightly resembling another White Flag trade, but still, the Braves have needed an OF all year even after picking up McLouth, and they have been linked to Dye since the offseason.

In light of the packages Halladay is rumored to be worth, this deal would make a lot more sense IMO: CLE trades: Cliff Lee CLE gets: Wade Davis, Phillipe Aumont, Brandon Morrow, Reid Brignac TB trades: Scott Kazmir, Wade Davis, Reid Brignac TB gets: Cliff Lee, Jeff Clement SEA trades: Phillippe Aumont, Brandon Morrow, Jeff Clement SEA gets: Scott Kazmir

On top of that: -Although there are exceptions, you rarely find outdoorsmen disrespecting nature by leaving trash all over the place. -License expenses help keep recreation areas clean, healthy, and most importantly protected. It's a lot harder to develop a natural area when hunters and fishermen are protesting against it. -It takes a greater appreciation for nature itself to kill your own food and prepare it yourself than it does to just go to the grocery store and buy something already slaughtered. -Were the Natives who lived here hundreds of years ago "bad" because they killed? They lived far, far, far closer to nature and held a respect far, far, higher for it than all your new age hippie clubs combined.

Great news, now throw lots of money at Goodwin. I promise that if the Sox sign Goodwin I'll never b**** about the Brandon Allen trade again (unless they trade Goodwin for a middle reliever).

Tales of Captain Cook and other adventures aboard the USS Birmingham ...kind of long, but fitting IMO

Awesome post. Danny Haren is excellent and if we can acquire him he'll be worth every penny considering that we should never be able to get him for pieces we'd be willing to forfeit.

QUOTE (kev211 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 11:25 PM) Look out in nature animals kill animals all the time. I eat meat, and will continue to eat meat and if some animal is able to outsmart me then it can eat me because of my stupidity. That's not a bad philosophy when it comes to small game, but bears are another matter entirely. They don't have to be very smart to chase down and pounce upon a human being. That's why people were never meant to live unarmed in arctic environments like Minnesota.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 09:25 PM) Isn't Jared Weaver + pretty much the definition of overpaying for Halladay? Yes, it is. Especially if you're the Angels, and your best pitcher doesn't want to sign an extension, and you've already lost your best pitching prospect (who was also Major League ready) because of a drunk driver. Them even offering Weaver is borderline insane. If Ricciardi rejected that he should be caned. I don't know why anyone would try to beat that, especially considering Halladay's refusal to talk extension.

QUOTE (Felix @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 10:52 PM) Haren >>>>>> Floyd I'm all for this move if it doesn't cost one of the untouchable prospects in the system (such as Flowers), which I kind of doubt. The difference between him and Floyd is massive though, and Haren would be a fantastic upgrade to our rotation. If the Sox dealt Floyd and the farm for Haren, I would certainly hope that in the future the Sox spend a LOT more money internationally as well as raise the budget for the draft. You can't cry poor after you've just picked up an ace long-term for a price that is probably 40-50% of his actual worth. And actually, I'd probably do that deal with the reasoning being that in the short-term while the Sox restock the farm they'll be able to fill some holes with veteran bargains who want to play for a contender. Players like Abreu, Johnny Damon, Thome, etc. should be available at a very reasonable cost over the offseason, so if we can pick up a few bargains and put some more money into the farm, we might be able to run out some good teams while the Mitchell's and Phegley's are developing in the minors. Haren is about the only one I'd deal that much for however. Looking around baseball, there's nobody else I can think of who would be a better fit. He's cheap salary-wise, under team control for a long time, young, awesome, has had success in the AL, has a great package of stuff and mental makeup, and doesn't come with all the injury concerns.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 09:25 PM) I'm not too fond of finesse pitchers and his success has only come when the Indians have sucked. How is Cliff Lee a finesse pitcher? He changes speeds to enhance the stuff he has which is already good as it is.

There are three places this rumor could have come from: 1. MLB Trade Rumors posters 2. WSI 3. A butthole (probably residing in the Seattle area) Have to call major bulls*** here. Why would Lee be enormously cheaper than Halladay? Why would Seattle be able to get Kazmir and Brignac for Clement and Morrow? Why would this deal be "on hold" if all three teams wanted to do it? Yeah, Cleveland is so set upon getting ripped off that they're hanging on to this offer in hopes of Seattle winning a couple more ballgames before the deadline. The "among others" part btw is way too vague. And why would Cleveland want Clement as a centerpiece when they have a logjam already at 1B/DH? Even if they deal VMart, they still have Shoppach. Morrow is more of a complimentary piece in a deal for an ace, not a centerpiece, like Poreda would be for us IMO. Just a ridiculous rumor. So again, Sox are reportedly prepared to part with Gavin Floyd for an ace. Yanks could part with one of Hughes/Chamberlain for an ace. Angels are offering Jered Weaver for an ace. So now Cleveland sends out Lee for Morrow and Clement? Sure...

Haha, Dana rules. Glad Atencio is going to disappear after this, couldn't stand that guy. At least Dana lies and bulls***s when he doesn't feel like being straight about something, and if it's anything he can discuss contractually, Dana always lets the fans know. Tom Atencio couldn't even confirm what the f*** it was he had for breakfast. Hopefully Mr. White is on a jet to Russia - err, scratch that. Hopefully Mr. White is on his way to handle whatever Lorenzo was doing and it is instead Lorenzo who is on his way to Russia. Not that they NEED Fedor, but I do on my UFC events. Sucks about Vitor either way though. Would have been interested in a fight against Fedor, and if not, that fight against Santiago was the fight I was most looking forward to. Hopefully this also means Din Thomas and Chris Horodecki in the WEC now.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 09:50 PM) Considering how last offseason went, I think a lot fewer teams will be offering arbitration to players unless they are elite. Dotel *is* an elite setup man, but he's not getting that kind of money. Otherwise I mostly agree at least as far as this offseason goes, however that will change as the market adjusts and players who have signed long-term deals at reasonable prices will still get arb - unless of course they scrap the entire arb process entirely under the next CBA.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 24, 2009 -> 11:17 PM) That means either Mora or Sherrill. Hopefully not. If Baez comes cheap and we're trading Dotel then I really like that move though. Deal off Dotel for a couple pretty good prospects, then acquire Baez for a couple mediocre prospects.

It is EXTREMELY rare for teams like ours who draft late in the first round and are mostly inactive in international free agency to develop a pitcher to at least the AA level who on potential alone is worth being the centerpiece in a deal for someone like Haren. And if we did have a Phil Hughes or a Clay Buchholz or a Clayton Kershaw, etc. would anyone here want to deal him? Probably not. Maybe if we'd have kept DLS and DLS had never gotten hurt, and if he also dominated AA while showing better command of his slider/slurve or whatever it was, THEN maybe that's someone we could have built a Haren deal around. But since we have a very hard time developing - again at least to the AA level - the type of starting pitching prospects that every single scout looks at and says "potential ace," we're going to have to continue basing major deals off of positional talent. And yes, maybe dealing these guys will hurt us, but you're still talking about dealing unknown commodities for proven success, and I never have a problem with that unless we're either overpaying for someone or acquiring a piece that is more of a luxury than a need. As it stands for me, the Brandon Allen for Pena trade is an example of overpaying for a luxury. However, dealing the farm for Haren gives us an ace at tremendous cost savings and also sets up the 1-4 of our rotation for several years ahead.

So wait, nobody is supposed to care about Cook? He'll never be on an MLB roster? Okay, well I could down the list of Charlotte's roster and come up with a bunch of names I don't give a f*** about who will likely never get a shot in the bigs. The man was long due a promotion, so just let him have it. I highly doubt Miguel Negron or Michael Restovich are in our plans, and probably not Hopper either. BA is done in this organization and will likely be non-tendered after the year should nobody else want him as a backup.

Miguel Torres threw out the first pitch today. Here's a link to him in a Sox jersey... http://mmajunkie.com/news/15609/wecs-migue...erfect-game.mma

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 06:50 PM) Viciedo can't be traded until a year after he signed his contract. Flowers was not part of the Peavy talks. Can't you be a PTBNL after 6 months or something like that? I think he can, maybe wrong on that though. Since Viciedo signed in December, if the deadline for a PTBNL trade to be completed is 5 months or less, Viciedo can be dealt. I know Flowers wasn't part of the Peavy talks. I was saying that Poreda and Richard were, and the other guys we don't know about. I have to assume they're all up for sale when it comes to Kenny though. Unlike Beckham, there are questions about all of these guys as to whether they'll perform in the Majors so I don't see why Kenny would treat any of them like Beckham.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 06:27 PM) If the Sox could extend Halladay for like 2 more season it would be stellar but I'm sure no one in the right mind would advise Roy to do that. Haren is the best bet and I think I'd even go as far as trading: Poreda/Richard/Danks/Flowers for him. I agree but I think we'd have to add a lot more, and right now, coming off of today's events, a big splash with Haren would really put the fanbase on cloud 9 and should alleviate concerns about lack of ticket sales over the remainder of the season. Knowing Kenny as we do, if we could get Haren for that package Haren would already be in uniform. He's probably already offered as much for Halladay or close to it, and Hallday should be quite a bit cheaper than Haren. Poreda easily could have been up here for the scouts, and it's very hard to not see Richard being shopped. Both were involved for Peavy. D2, Flowers, and Viciedo are the only ones we don't know about, but Kenny doesn't often hold on to prospects. If we can find a third team to add prospects or young players for a reliever, maybe we've got a shot.

If Haren is in any way a possibility I'd much rather give up a ton more for financial benefit and longterm security. Maybe the Sox can get a major piece or two for Jenks, and then add that to an offer that practically guts the upper levels of the farm? Might as well do that. I just read MLBTR and Ricciardi says Halladay is going to "test" free agency, i.e. sign a megadeal with NY, Boston, LAA, or LAD.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 23, 2009 -> 01:56 PM) I don't think the Sox are trading for a reliever unless they dump a reliever. I really think they are going hard after Haren. Would you guys do Richard/Poreda/Hudson/Flowers/Shelby (or Fields or Anderson) for Haren? I would. Would the Dbacks? Yes, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Remove Shelby and add D2 and then maybe we have somewhat of a shot.