chw42

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 11:27 PM) He better produce for that term and those numbers. I don't want Linebrink part 2. Linebrink had a bunch of nagging injuries. Crain's been healthy for most of his career.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 11:04 PM) Who says Downs was intersted in coming here? This is fantasy baseball. There are a lot of variables to signing players you want to sign and the market can change over the course of several days. Oh, then I'd like to trade for Joakim Soria. What if Kenny didn't like Downs for some reason? What if Kenny preferred a right handed pitcher instead of a left hander? Could all be possible, but there's no question Downs is the better pitcher and would give you a better return.

Also, don't forget that Cowley said 2011 could be "The Kids Can Play II" about a month and a half ago.

LR Minor Leaguer MR Pena MR Santos SU Sale SU Crain CL Thornton We're getting warmer...

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 15, 2010 -> 10:25 PM) Again, when you need something, you're probably going to have to overpay for it. Same thing with Linebrink. Sox desperatley needed bullpen help, Sox were gonna have to overpay. It's how the market works. There were better options out there who are going for around the same rate. Downs is a better reliever than Crain, yet he only got two million more. The reason I wanted the Sox to sign Crain was because I thought he was going to come cheaper, something around 2 for $7 million or 3 for $10 million. The contract pays Crain to be at least a 1 WAR reliever, he hasn't done that yet in his career. Although if he pitches like he did last year, he should be just fine. Either the payroll is going to $125 million or there's a lot of trades coming our way.

So we sign Jesse Crain and are now going after Kerry Wood? Just who are we trading to free up this money?

Wow, did we have to give him three years? Jeez. I think he's a decent pitcher and all, but I'm not liking the length of the contract. It's true that he should stay relatively healthy and all, but they might as well have gotten Scott Downs.

Took my first final today. Unfortunately, I have two other ones to go. Sad part is, the one I took today might have been my easiest.

No to Guerrier. His FIP is pretty high since he doesn't really K that many and he always walks his fair share. He is a good GB pitcher though. However, as a bullpen arm, you'd want somebody who misses bats. Crain would be the better, cheaper option IMO.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 11:18 AM) yeah they are feeling pretty s***ty now, so the Sox could get over-market value for a pitcher because of the Yankees' desperation. Floyd in New York, however, would be a disaster, IMO. I am not sure how he would handle NY pressure. But I would love Gardner, he is Juan Pierre x 100. I had that thought in the back of my mind ever since the rumor yesterday. He might go Dontrelle Willis.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:47 AM) Yeah it's pretty much bulls*** when comparing hitters to pitchers. It holds some relevance between like players. 100% worthless when comparing Brett Gardner to Gavin Floyd. It is better when comparing position players to position players or pitchers to pitchers, but it's not 100% worthless. Plus, pitching WAR is calculated very differently depending on where you're looking.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:42 AM) Are we talking WAR here? If so, Gardner was "worth" more than Hamels, Oswalt, Sabathia...I'll stop now. One year of WAR doesn't mean he's better than players who had lower WAR, especially for a guy like Gardner, who's still sort of unproven and had about 1/3 of his WAR based on UZR. Andres Torres put up a 6 WAR last year, is he really better than say, Jayson Werth? Probably not, but he probably did provide more value to the Giants in 2010 than Werth did for the Phillies. That 6 WAR figure doesn't really mean too much as to how the two will perform in 2011.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:39 AM) They can absorb his contract and would be a decent bench option for them. It'd be like Swisher trade volume 2. Except this time, the player they get sucks and we're not going to be the losers of the deal.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:38 AM) True, assuming you have a league average pitching to plug in Floyd's spot (which you don't). I just don't see the value/point in having White Juan Pierre. Juan Pierre was hella good when he was in his mid 20s.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:20 AM) Are you talking about the Swisher deal? If so, I don't think that was as much of the White Sox trading for Yankees prospects opposed to the White Sox simply trying to get players they felt worked within their system for a guy that they needed to get rid of. I don't even remember any other times the White Sox got Yankees prospects back in a deal, at least recently.

I ran the lineup with Quentin hitting 6th back a week ago with Bill James' projected numbers. That lineup came out to 5.15 runs per game. I just ran this lineup through and got 5.14. It's a .01 run difference per game, or 1.62 runs over the course of the entire year. The offense would end up losing less than .2 WAR from the absence of Quentin on offense. However, Gardner in CF is probably a +8-10 fielder. Rios in right is probably a +12-15 fielder. Quentin was a -20 something last year. So right off the bat, you'd be gaining around 3 wins on defense. If your objection to this Gardner idea is mostly about his lack of production, it's simply not true. Unless Carlos goes 2008 ape s*** again, he's not a better overall player than Brett Gardner.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:24 AM) Man, Rios is also a better center fielder. There's no doubt in my mind about that. I'm okay with trading Quentin, but when you have basically 2 corner OF's (again I'm objecting to Rios moving from CF; instead play Gardner and Pierre in the corners) who have no power. Enjoy that. Or s*** even if you want to move Rios to RF you still have two OF spots with below average power without any different power sources coming from somewhere else. So you have two outfielders with little power and one with good power. What's wrong with that? A 3-4-5 of Rios, Dunn, and Konerko will provide more than enough power. Add in Alexei's above average power for a SS and Beckham's decent power for a 2B and you're really not lacking much pop. Whatever power you lose from Quentin should be made up with the defense Gardner provides and then some.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:19 AM) Fine, call Gardner a 4-win OF. He's still making the league minimum (which in turn means he's club controlled longer) and younger than Floyd while being of equal production. And that was just in his first full season at the major league level. It doesn't make sense for the Yankees to let him go for Floyd. The Yankees need pitching a lot more than on base percentage in the 9 hole.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:07 AM) I understand this. I'm just not a believer in one year. I saw him as a 4th OF before 2010 and I still do. I don't see how it's bad to have a guy who's put up wOBAs of .338 and .357 purely based off of on base percentage. The guy doesn't have much power, but he's capable of getting on base at a very good clip (probably .360-.370). Add on 50 SB speed and lots of range in the OF and I think you have yourself a hell of a leadoff hitter. Trade Floyd for him, put him in center and move Rios to right. You'll have one of the best defensive outfields in all of baseball. Quentin ends up getting traded, for who? I don't know, that's not my job. But you'll save money in this trade and you can probably grab a fifth starter from somewhere or trade Quentin for a starter.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Dec 14, 2010 -> 12:03 AM) But don't we already have a "try hard grindy speedy (add bad baseball verb here) basically 4th OF guy starting, named Juan Pierre? Pierre's walk rate is about half of Gardner's.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 11:58 PM) Don't see the Yankees wanting to trade their 5-win OF with 2 years of service time for Gavin Floyd. 2.1 of that WAR was due to UZR. I think Gardner is a very, very good fielder, but I don't know if he's THAT good. DRS had him at +13. FSR had him at +12. I think he's a +12-15 fielder on average. So you can probably shave off a whole win off his WAR. Floyd's also highly affordable for the Yankees for the next 3 years.

He can probably sit the next game out against Toronto if he has to.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 11:50 PM) I don't see what trading any of them is going to accomplish with the mindset that we are trying to win the division this year. We can't trade any for significantly better major league talent. Brett Gardner? I'd say Floyd is worth Gardner. Plus, he's getting wasted by the Yankees because of Derek Jeter.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 11:40 PM) Kenny better be smart enough to have the conversation start with Austin Romine or Jesus Montero. If Cashman says "no" to either, then hang up. But I would really love Gardner over everyone. Floyd for Gardner and a couple of B prospects and it's a done deal. But I doubt the Yankees will give up Gardner.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 13, 2010 -> 10:52 PM) According to Joel Sherman, the Yankees inquired about John Danks and were told no by the White Sox. The Yanks also pursued King Felix and Josh Johnson. The White Sox, however, would move Floyd or Jackson and like the Yankees prospects. http://twitter.com/#!/Joelsherman1/sta...542535955316736 and http://twitter.com/#!/Joelsherman1/sta...543358001152000 I can stand moving Jackson, but not Floyd. Please not Floyd. Remember the last time we traded for Yankees prospects? Bad, bad memories.