Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 10:07 PM) I'd rather see the Sox sign Salty to a 4 year deal if it were for something like $6M or $7M per year, but if he's going to cost $36M for four years the Sox would be better off signing AJ for something like 2yrs./$12M - $14M. Signing a 37 year old catcher to a multi-year deal seems like a bad idea to me.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 09:48 PM) It's the free agent market. It's like a convenience store, you will overpay. You don't want to field your whole lineup that way, but we've got no catcher in the organization with any hope of successfully hitting right handed pitching. If it's only 4 years, he's got a better chance of earning his contract than McCann. The key with Salty is we can add him without sacrificing a draft pick or any major/minor league talent. What other catching options are currently out there that only cost money that are better than Salty?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 09:13 PM) For $10 million a year, that doesn't hugely impress me. What's your solution for catcher then?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 08:46 PM) He has been a tolerable Cather for 2 of 3 seasons and had a great career year right before hitting Fa, and his numbers in those tolerable seasons weren't muh better than the numbers that made Texas let him go. Unless I'm missing something, he was replacement level up until 2011 when he joined the Red Sox. Since then, he's put up WARs of 1.6, 1.9, & 3.6. He's been much better than he was with Texas, not really much of an argument there.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 07:05 PM) How can his floor be a 2 WAR player when 2013 was the only year he was at least a 2 WAR player? Well he was a 1.9 WAR in 2012, but I guess that's pretty far off from 2. And he was a 1.6 WAR player in 2011 when he got about 20% less plate appearances than last year, but let's not factor playing time into the equation. Seems like a pretty safe bet to be a 2ish WAR player with 460ish plate appearances based on his last 3 years of performance. But you're right, technically he's only been a 2 WAR player once in his career.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 07:00 PM) The downside is that he puts up numbers close to his career numbers of a low-.700's OPS without great defense he's put up every year of his career before last year and you're paying $10 million for a guy who gives 1 WAR next year and declines from there. I have no idea how you look at his career and say te risk of a market value contract is minimal when he's been barely above replacement until last year. The risk is you're paying a fortune for the guy the Rangers let walk. Maybe it's the right move, but the downside is quite plain. Lol...I'm so sick and tired of this new assumption that players automatically regress at age 30. He was a 1.6 & 1.9 WAR player in 2011 & 2012 before his 3.6 WAR season last year. He's been a very solid catcher for three straight seasons, so I'm not sure where this "barely above replacement" comment is coming from. Also, in the AL Central, he'd be able to face RHP even more frequently, yet somehow with us at age 29 he'd become a 1 WAR player and then be even worse in 2015 at age 30. I forgot that all players follow a bell curve and peak exactly at 30 years of age before rapidly declining. And why do I care that the Rangers let Salty go? Why in god's name does that matter at all? I guess the Red Sox shouldn't have picked up David Ortiz way back when because the Twins let him go. Or are you saying the Rangers don't ever make mistakes on player evaluations? Just a very strange point.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 05:47 PM) Take it for what it's worth but Hahn has said more than once this offseason that the FO underestimated that need for a catcher. I think a move is made, whether it's big or small we'll see but I feel they do something. They can't go into next year with Flowers/Phegley. Either bring in a LH back up/partner, bring in a starter or bring in a great defender. There is like a 5% chance that we go into 2014 with Phegley & Flowers as our major league catchers. Who knows how they view Salty, but it's clear that an upgrade at C will be a priority this offseason based on Hahn's comments. And quite frankly, it makes complete sense given how weak we are at the position throughout the organization. IMO, Salty would be a great get for us. I think his floor is a 2 WAR player, which would still be acceptable at $9 or $10M a year. However, if he truly took a step last year with the bat then that salary could be quite a bargain. Regardless, there's nothing wrong with paying market rate to fill a huge organizational need as long as the risk is minimal. I guess I don't see a lot of downside in signing Salty through his age 32 season, which is what a four year deal would require and the most I think he will get in free agency.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 01:50 PM) I think he could still get more than that on the open market (or perhaps get the Yankees to sign him to a 3 year deal before the accept/decline deadline). I'd probably be willing to part with a 2nd round pick for him at 2/$20. It's not just the pick you'd be parting with, but also the bonus pool money. Our 1st round pick is likely going to get their full slot amount, so if we want to have some flexibility for later in the draft, we'll probably need to go underslot in round 2 and/or 3. I'd hate to lose a prospect and some of that flexibility for a guy that is only going to help us for 2 years.

I think "favorites" is pretty misleading. The guy is predicting the Sox will sign Salty, but even acknowledges he doesn't like that prediction very much. It's simply just a guess based on positional need.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 01:28 AM) I think it's funny that "David Freese sucks" but would have had the 2nd best OPS+ on the WSox last season and highest OBP. Ok. Did you happen to write this? http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-f...s-david-freese/

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 1, 2013 -> 06:16 PM) Sure, Beck had a nice ERA but he managed to strike out a grand total of 4 guys per 9 in A+ ball. Unless he somehow develops a strikeout pitch he's never going to be able to consistently succeed in the majors. He's a pretty marginal prospect that was a throw in for me to be honest. And what exactly do you think of Santiago going forward and what do you think his trade value is? Beck's K rate jumped to 7.07/9 when he moved up to AA. My guess is he was working on a specific pitch at A+. Either way, he's more than just a throw-in type prospect. As for Santiago, I'm not sure why you're acting like young pitching isn't extremely valuable. Sure he has some flaws, like his inability to go deep into starts, but he's still been very productive and has immense potential. Remember, this kid has only been a starter for a short period of time. There's every reason to believe he will continue to get better with more experience. If you move him, you better be getting a talented, young position player, not some Ethier type.

Sounds like the Red Sox might not offer Salty a QO. If that's the case, I'd like to see the White Sox pursue him aggressively, even if they feel he's only the strong half of a platoon. Here are his stats against RHP last year: .294/.350/.523/.873 with a wRC+ of 135 Those numbers would be a HUGE upgrade for us at the catcher's spot and address multiple offense needs. Plus with the amount of RHP in the AL Central he could easily get 120 starts, so the platoon aspect would be somewhat overrated. He turns 29 next May, so a 4 year deal would take you through his age 29 to 32 seasons. I would be willing to throw $36M in that case. If he could repeat his total production from 2013 that deal would be a complete steal.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 11:52 PM) 140 innings this season. Assume next year he can do 180 innings, that should put him around a 1.9 WAR. So I guess MAYBE a 2.5 WAR if he improves some next year, that's still less than Arenado already put up last year at age 22. Not disagreeing with you on Arenado, just saying that Santiago is easily a 2 WAR player with minor improvements with the potential for much, much more.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 10:46 PM) Yeah, I don't see them trading a 22-year-old 3B who put up a 2.7 WAR his rookie season for a 26 year old pitcher who may put up a sub-2 WAR next season if he improves. Not that they may not be interested in Santiago, but it would take Santiago + to get that done. How would Santiago put up a sub 2 WAR if he actually improved next year? He was basically a starter for only 2/3 of the year and still finished with a 1.5 WAR. Give him 11 more starts next year instead of a bunch of relief appearances and he should easily get that extra 0.5 WAR if gets even a slight bit better.

Unfortunately for us, we're not going to want to lose a high pick and a big chunk of bonus pool money when we're drafting 3rd overall. So all the big free agents are pretty much off-limits. I still think if a guy like Salty doesn't receive a QO they'll go after him aggressively. The issue here isn't money, Hahn just wants to hold onto all his draft-related assets, which is the right call IMO.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 03:58 PM) I like next years class much more than this year. If the Sox can somehow swing a trade for Brett Lawrie with the Jays, I would be extremely happy with the product they are putting on the field next year. There wasn't much in this free agent class I wanted besides Abreu though, I think McCann is a nice player, but grossly overhyped and will get grossly overpaid. Who do you like next year??

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 31, 2013 -> 03:04 PM) I think Linstrom is a luxury more than anything else. $3.5m for a glorified one-out righty guy is a lot for a team rebuilding. First off, we're not rebuilding. Second, you should be willing to pay a slight premium in terms of salary for not having to take on any long-term risk. I'll take Lindstrom at $3.5M for 2014 rather go out and sign a similar free agent to a multi-year deal.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 01:27 PM) I agree with the first statement, but not the second. A run saved is a run scored, and Bourjos is arguably the best in the bigs in CF. And we were atrocious defensively. He's a 3-4 win player in a full season -- which would make him better than all of our position players last year. Not all runs are created equal, so I disagree with your "a run saved is a run scored". Balance is a critical part of winning games and our offense was arguably the worst in baseball last year. Therefore, medium-sized investments in the offense can lead to large returns, resulting in more wins than simply the sum of the WAR we'd be adding. Now, I'm not arguing that improving the defense is pointless, I just think you can get a lot more bang for your buck (or talent) by adding to the offense, especially if we can improve the team's OBP. I don't believe Bourjos helps us there despite his career high .333 OBP last year. Also, you're hyping him up as a "3-4 win player in a full season" and yet after 3 major league seasons he's only had one 3+ WAR season which happens to be 3 years ago. Durability matters and if he can't stay healthy he'll never be a 3/4 WAR player and you'll be relying on replacement-level talents for two thirds of the year. BTW, what happened to his defensive numbers this past year? It appears they slipped quite a bit. Given that his value is so heavily tied to his defense is this a concern to you?

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 29, 2013 -> 05:45 PM) So then I assume you are not a fan of Bourjos either, whose value is tied in to his defense, had only 1 outlier good year, and appears that he was injured the past couple seasons (I'm just guessing based on his lack of games played). At least Parra's really good year was the most recent one, when he was 26 years old, the age where he should be coming in to his full potential. Parra is an amazing defender with probably one of the best OF arms I have ever seen, draws walks at a decent clip, doesn't strike out a ton, and has above average speed. The dude had 43 doubles last season. If he could learn to steal bases more efficiently, he could be a 4-5 WAR player for the next few years. As I've been clammoring for a while, I'd love to see a trade of Quintana + Carlos Sanchez for Parra, 3B Davidson, and C Stryker Trahan. Nope, not a huge fan of Bourjos either. He'd be an interesting buy low guy perhaps, but I don't want him if he's going to be a key piece back in a Quintana or Santiago trade. He's just not a good fit for us offensively.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 29, 2013 -> 01:21 PM) You know who I'd rather have over Peter Bourjos? Gerardo Parra. http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...sition=OF#value http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...sition=OF#value Not sure what the big draw is. His 2013 WAR looks like a clear outlier to me, driven by fluky defensive metrics. I've got to be honest, I'm not a fan of players whose value is tied that heavily to their defense.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 29, 2013 -> 03:24 AM) Paulie is too proud to hit .195 or something. Don't worry. If he after 2 months is hitting like that, believe me, he'll retire. I am almost sure he's going to try it again. I have vibes he feels like he can still play. I'd give him a one-year deal for 4 million with a team option for the second year. So two years, 8 mill, but only one year guaranteed. If he doesn't like that, he moves onto the Orioles or somewhere. BTW I'd also offer AJP the same deal. One year 4 mill. Just stop already.

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/10/26/503...everson-through

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 26, 2013 -> 03:08 PM) Of course, the real lesson here is actually buyer beware and it's told by your trade. The Tex trade with the Braves...yes the Rangers got those 3 pieces...and none of them were the key piece in the deal. The key piece in the deal was Saltalamacchia, who the Rangers worked for several years, busted, was let go, and finally, more than half a decade later, became a decent piece for Boston this year. There's a lesson in that. The Rangers had to move him, took the best deal they got, and the key piece of that deal failed and helped set them back a couple years. Yet, the guys who were more throw-ins...those guys a few years down the road became valuable pieces, but they weren't the heralded guys the Rangers got back; Salty was. Throw-ins? Andrus & Harrison were the #2 and #3 prospects in the system coming into that season. And while Feliz didn't crack their top 10 prospect list just yet (only one professional season under his belt at the time), Baseball America still ranked his fastball the best in the Braves system and would make the Rangers top 10 list the following season (believe #5). Th point is while Salty may have been the best chip, the Rangers got four key pieces in that deal.

QUOTE (Real @ Oct 26, 2013 -> 05:44 AM) I'd hope that if the Sox were to even entertain dealing Chris, Stanton would be the first in their list of players they'd want in return Though you wouldn't get anything else I don't get this line of thinking. What does trading Sale straight-up for Stanton accomplish? Fill one hole by creating an even bigger one? Legitimate aces are the hardest players to find, especially ones under long-term team friendly contracts. And no offense, Stanton might be the most overrated player on this entire board. He's been a damn good player for a while now, but only has one truly "great" season under his belt. You don't move Sale in a 1-1 deal unless you're the clear winner. For Mike Trout? Of course, not that the Angels would ever make that deal. For Giancarlo Stanton? No way in hell.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Oct 25, 2013 -> 08:43 AM) Well when you are of the belief that players like Michael Early, Dan Black and Toby Thomas are legitimate prospects, then that will happen Lol...seriously though, oldsox's complete disregard for tools amazes me.