Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 07:13 AM) For the next 3 weeks, Rick Hahn has just as little pressure to get this done as the teams out there have to make the deal. How exactly are these teams going to fall out of the market for Q? The Astros are going to find someone better? They're going to get Sonny Gray and tell themselves that solves the problem of their rotation being inconsistent? Not sure I understand what you're getting at here.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 06:44 AM) Do the Astros try go after Chris Archer again? Unless they want to give up Bregman, I don't see it happening. Rumor is they turned down an offer of Martes, Tucker, Paulino, ++. Realistically, the Astros can't offer much more than that unless they include major league pieces like Bregman and/or Musgrove.

Team is not nearly bad enough to get into the Beer mix as it stands today.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 05:07 AM) Gammons source saying Gray to Astros won't happen. Color me surprised Never made any sense, at least not for Houston. Gray won't be dealt until the trade deadline at the earliest.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 12:10 AM) Do you have a link to this interview? I'd love to hear it. It was on WSCR last year, someone filling in for Lawrence Holmes interviewed him.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 10:09 PM) The first part is exactly right. i disagree with the second part. Q will still be under contract when the team is good again. If he is still around, the Sox will have a variety of pitchers to try to build a great pitching staff, then they can buy hitters because all of the pitchers will be at a very low cost. When will the team be good again if we don't move Quintana? How much control will we have over him at that time?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 10:00 PM) I generally love your insight, but lately you seem to be allowing impatience to cloud your judgment. This post is entirely speculation (albeit perhaps informed). It's definitely speculation, but based on the variety of rumors we've heard. And Merkin made it seem pretty clear last night in an interview that Hahn would likely need to come down from his very high ask to get a deal done. His example was something along the lines, "Would you be willing to take Meadows, but maybe accept three prospects back instead of four or take lesser secondary pieces". It really came off that Hahn is still asking for the moon, like say Glasnow & Bell in addition to Meadows. No way is that a realistic ask, but we saw Hahn do this with the Red Sox at the trade deadline for Sale. And this approach works fine for now. We don't technically have to move Quintana this offseason (although I think we should) and can wait it out a bit longer to see if a team gets desperate as spring training nears. At the bare minimum, it's probably forced teams to move past the typical bulls*** starting offers and put something with some actual substance on the table. Again, this is all speculation, but I find it hard to believe the Astros offered their top three prospects plus two others for Archer, but wouldn't come close to that for Quintana. I really think we're sitting on a strong offer from the Astros. If I had to guess, Hahn likes what the Yankees & Pirates could potentially offer better (Torres/Frazier & Meadows) and is simply waiting them out. That's fine for now when we're the only seller on the market and have all the leverage, but I don't think you can go into the season with the hope either team changes their tune. Ultimately, I think Hahn will happily take a Martes/Tucker headlined package for Quintana if that's the best he can do this offseason. I think there is far too much risk in waiting until the deadline to make a move when you consider the likelihood of an improved outcome. And I truly believe Hahn feels the same exact way. He's obviously not going to settle for garbage, but he's also not going to pass on a strong collection of prospects right now in hopes of getting a perfect offer down the road.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 09:43 PM) Why? Explain to me why Hahn's perception of Quintana's value is wrong and Luhnow or Huntington's perception of Quintana's value is right? Why should we compromise? In regards to a barren pitching market, how many assets have you seen become available like Q before? Irregardless of how many other SP's might come on the market in the next 6-18 months, how many do you suppose will provide the surplus value that Quintana does, especially if teams aren't showing a willingness to liquidate their prospects for such assets? This notion that some influx of other reasonable arms coming on the market is somehow going to water down Quintana's market is pure horses***. You don't think those pitchers are truly available today, as potential tradeable assets rather than free agents? You don't think the Tigers would trade Verlander? It's not a question of a barren market, it's question of an asset being so valuable that teams are hesitant to liquidate assets for them. That shouldn't cause us to lower our price. What that requires is patience. Finding the "right" buyer isn't always a fast process, but that buyer does exist. Hahn will find them. I don't think Hahn perceives his current ask to be fair value. I think he's simply testing how desperate teams are in the off chance someone will do a Shelby Miller 2.0 trade. Right now, he's the only seller in town and he can take his time without worrying too much about teams moving on to other alternatives. But the reality is at some point he needs to come off these purposely exaggerated demands and try to get a deal done. There is no doubt in my mind he's sitting on some pretty nice offers. And honestly, the best way for him to improve those offers is being prepared to accept one and force another team to top it or lose out of Quintana for good.

And I don't think we should ignore the threat of Archer & Gray on Quintana's potential value at the trade deadline. With strong rebounds, those two guys become very attractive alternatives and create even more competition on the seller side. Right now, we are only with a cost-controlled TOR starter available that doesn't have question marks on top of an extremely high price tag. That could easily change in the next six months.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 09:25 PM) I think the point that is missing from the rebuttal of people like me who dont support waiting is Hahn would be deliberately reducing who he could acquire at the deadline. Lets say the Pirates say screw you White Sox we're going with what we have. They bring up Meadows and Glasnow who are both contributing to a team fighting for a playoff spot. You think they are going to be traded now? Nope. Same goes for Houston. They bring up Martes and Tucker moves up a few levels as he's almost ready. You think they are going to get traded? No. White Sox have acquired guys so far that arent far away. Your reducing these teams assets that they need to go fight for a playoff spot. They are going to probably offer you prospects in the lower levels of the farm system. What are the chances another team fighting for that spot sacrifices major league ready talent in the middle of the season? If the answer to that question is unlikely then you have a problem. That's where I'm at...I just dont see a good outcome if he's still on the roster by Spring Training other than him contributing to the team. Agree with this as well.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 09:16 PM) The only reason Hahn hasn't been burned by refusing to back off what are surely ridiculous demands is because there are no other options out there. Trust me, if Houston or Pittsburgh could find a good lefty elsewhere they would've done that by now. They know they need to shore up their rotations if they want to seriously compete this year and they need to go after Q unless they are willing to deal with an even more ridiculously stubborn Rays front office. It was fine that Hahn started with a really high ask for Quintana but now its time to back off a little and meet these teams halfway. I dont understand the enthusiasm for waiting. That above dynamic that has bailed Hahn out will be gone soon, I really dont know what else to say to those who refuse to believe that. How long have you guys followed baseball? Have you ever seen a pitching market as barren as this one? It wont last, and if you think it will you are letting stubborness cloud your judgment. 100% agree with this.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 02:47 PM) With Kopech nipping at Fulmer's heels. I agree that offer is at least very intriguing. I doubt its been offered though. Rumor is the Astros offered Martes, Tucker, Paulino, & two other pieces for Archer. Paulino is probably more valuable than Reed at the moment, so I think the first three pieces are very doable. It's the fourth piece that could make or break it for Houston.

I'm going to keep saying it, but give me Martes, Tucker, Reed, plus one other piece. How much fun would this rotation be to follow in 2018? 1. Rodon 2. Giolito 3. Martes 4. Lopez 5. Fulmer

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 01:03 PM) His attitude wouldn't be a problem if he had a clean record. He was suspended for 50 games for a PED in 2015 and then missed time last year when he broke his hand on the face of a teammate. His off the field attitude is directly impacting his on the field performance as a pitcher. Seems like the fight wasn't his fault based on all publically available information.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/213682650/ri...-quintana-deal/ Nothing really new here, but between this article and Merkin's interview last night on WSCR, I gather that Hahn's demands have been ridiculously high and he now needs to determine what's really enough to move forward with a deal. Call it caving or whatever, but at some point you have to acknowledge that your current offers are likely close to market value and consider accepting one of them. That doesn't necessarily have to be now, but at some point the only thing that's going to get a team to budge (if they even will) is another team closing in on a deal like the Nationals with Sale. I do think with SoxFest 1 1/2 weeks away, we'll see some action very soon or else it indicates they plan on holding Q until the deadline.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 10:17 AM) https://twitter.com/coatesktbb/status/821389680507752448 Check the gun. Is this a dumb thing to do? https://twitter.com/BrandonOSports/status/821389615135358976 Seems pretty dumb to me, about the same level of stupidity as doing a back flip on live TV after being drafted but before signing a contract.

To me this is all very simple. Hahn is most likely demanding an "untouchable" from each team right now. So Bregman for Houston, Swanson for Altanta, Torres for New York, & Meadows for Pittsburgh. While I truly believe the Sox want to get a Quintana deal before spring training and will eventually accept a package without one of the untouchables mentioned above, they also know that they control the market and can take their sweet ass time in hopes of one of these teams getting desperate. That obviously hasn't happened yet and I think they're realizing they now need to move forward if the Levine leak is any indication. The Astros' leak IMO pretty clearly tells sellers (both the Sox & Rays) that Bregman is off limits, so either s*** or get off the pot. I really think we're approaching the finish line here. The Astros & Sox both want this deal to get done and I think the standoff is about to end with concessions on both sides.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 12:01 PM) Although not Q news, it is related. Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal now Sources: The #Astros, as they continue their search for a starting pitcher, have remained in contact with the #Athletics on Sonny Gray link I read this as the Astros wanting the Sox to know Bregman is off the table and they will move onto other options if they have to.

I don't know much about Acuna, but nothing I've read suggests his tools are anywhere close to Robles'. That's not to say he's a bad prospect, I just can't see the argument for him being headliner material. If a deal gets done with the Braves, it will definitely be Albies at the top of it.

Sounds like Bautista might be heading back to Toronto.

I think Quintana ultimately ends up on the Astros and I'm ok with that. I think Martes & Tucker as headliners is arguably as good as we're going to do if Torres/Frazier & Meadows are off limits. The other plus is the Astros have an incredibly deep system filled with interesting pitching & positional prospects that aren't too far off. Given that neither Martes or Tucker is close in value to Moncada, I think you can get two more quality pieces from them. One guy that should be expendable and makes a ton of sense for us is Reed. He's a perfect buy low candidate IMO, especially for a rebuilding team. After that, there are plenty of options to round out a deal. Such a trade might not have that blue chipper at the top, but it would provide a nice mix of quantity and quality.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 15, 2017 -> 07:31 PM) I really get the feeling that his ends before Soxfest. I agree...seems like something will go down in the next 7 to 10 days.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 15, 2017 -> 07:03 PM) That's the beauty of having a guy like Saladino is his versatility. He can man second until Moncada is ready. Not like Saladino will inhibit Moncada's eventual call up. That's what I would do. Give him two months at 2B and then reevaluate. Frazier should not be on this team come August, so worst case scenario you rotate Saladino around the field for 1 or 2 months until 3B opens up.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 15, 2017 -> 05:43 PM) If he hits 11 HR in 2/3 of a season that's one impressive power surge for him. He hit 8 HRs in about 1/2 a season last year, so I'm not sure why 11 in 2/3 of a season would be much of a power surge.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 15, 2017 -> 03:22 PM) I have really developed a love of the Braves position player prospects and the idea of getting two, perhaps even three, of them is something that (I hope) will take at least the inclusion of Meadows from the Pirates or Torres from the Yankees to beat. Which prospects are you referring to? I'm assuming Albies & Acura, but who else?