Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 12:57 PM) It seems to me that taking an OC position in the NFL would be a more logical step than a HC? I think it's pretty clear that Trestman wanted to become an NFL head coach and felt that some HC experience, regardless of type, would help him get there. I guess I don't see why people are so confused about this. We see guys in baseball become minor league managers rather than be major league assistants, because they feel it's the best way to prove they have the skills to be a successful major leave manager. You can question why he chose the CFL over the NCAA, but I think he simply went the CFL route because the opportunity presented itself first. Regardless, he's been both a successful CFL head coach and NFL coordinator. If anything, he should have an edge over other coordinator candidates because he's shown he can actually run a team. I'm not saying Trestman should be the choice, but if Emery ends up going with him, I definitely wouldn't be upset.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 01:18 AM) Just wanna put my Justin Upton idea here in Pale Hose Talk for those who dont wander in to the Diamond Club...I think its pretty genius and I want it to be seen by the masses =p In reference to Upton using his NTC for a deal with the M's... Discuss here. You think we're getting the 29th ranked propsect in baseball plus more for Rios? I think Rios has value and could probably get you one good prospect (low top 100 maybe) right now, but there are still red flags with him and teams won't give up a ton until he proves 2012 wasn't a fluke. If he does that, then we should be able to get more for him, but a top 30 prospect still seems extremely unlikely IMO.

I can understand people blaming the GM, the manager, and/or the players for our failures in recent years, but the owner? Really?? I'll admit Reinsdorf shouldn't have let the Guillen-KW fued last as long as it did and obviously his inability to go over-slot in the draft hurt us (which is no longer an issue), but other than those two things he's been perfectly fine as an owner. It's not like we're talking about Loria or Angelos here.

Do people realize that spending on the draft and international amateur free agents is capped now? The ability to complete a legitimate rebuild is significantly limited now, because teams can no longer take resources for the major league team and use them in these areas. All the examples I've read on this site of successfully rebuilding are the result of spending big money on the draft and Latin America. If you can no longer outspend your competition and stockpile a ton of high-end talent during a given draft or signing period, then you'll struggle to build an elite system in a short amount of time. High draft picks alone simply won't cut it. This is baseball, not the NBA. Let's be real here, a true rebuild would take us 4-5 years minimum given the shape our current system (BA ranks us 29th). And that's the best case scenario, just look at the Royals & Pirates if you want to see two examples of rebuilding gone wrong, and those teams were able to abuse the old system. Imagine how bad it can with capped spending now.

If Paulie is not brought back for 2014, then I think you move Dunn to 1B and consider going with a rotating DH. I think there is nothing wrong with having four solid outfielders split time at DH if you have the right personal. For example, keep our existing outfield and throw Trayce Thompson (assuming he develops) in the mix, who should be able to play all three positions.

This website is so comical. Almost everyone here wrote off 2012 before the season even started, then the team went out and was in 1st place for most of the season. Yes, they fell short in the end, finishing 3 games behind the Tigers despite a higher run differential (5th in AL). The primary reasons for the collapse IMO was a tired rotation, a lack of clutch hitting down the stretch, and some rookie mistakes by Robin, three areas we can possibly improve in 2013. Obviously the Tigers have improved and should be the favorites. We probably need some things to go right for us or some things to go wrong for them to win the division. Considering the age of two of their big additions (Hunter & Martinez) and the innings their pitching staff logged last year, I think there is some reason for optimism of that front. Also, we can always win one of the wild-card spots. Baltimore did last year with a +5 run differential. To write off the 2013 White Sox at this point just seems so damn foolish to me. We all wish Hahn would go out and make an impact move, but we have more than enough talent to win the division.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 8, 2013 -> 02:11 PM) Konerko and Dunn's 2nd half OPS's were .772 and .729 respectively. Huge red flag for the 2013 offense for me. Those numbers tell me Konerko & Dunn sucked in the 2nd half last year, but they don't tell me why, which is pretty important if you plan on using them to predict future performance. As someone else mentioned, Konerko was injured last year and should be recovered from that injury by the start of next season. While I personally think he will regress some due to his age, I think he'll be way better than a .772 OPS player in 2013. Not as sure about Dunn, but it seems like he just failed to make adjustments from June on. Considering how bad he was in 2011 and how good he was in April & May of 2012, I wouldn't be surprised if he was simply too stubborn to make changes after that hot start last year. Trust me, I don't have a ton of confidence we'll ever see the Dunn who used to put up .900 OPSs, but I seriously doubt he'll be worse than an .800 OPS in 2013 (which is what he did in 2012). Overall, maybe they are a little worse in 2013, but I honestly don't expect much of a drop-off at all.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 8, 2013 -> 09:21 AM) Between AJ being gone, the fact that Ozzie Guillen not being around won't count for plus 3 wins again, the wear and tear on Peavy/Sale/Quintana, uncertainty over Danks' health, Flowers' bat, trepidation about Reed and Jones in the bullpen, about Keppinger holding up as an everyday player...and the improvements in the Tigers, Royals and Indians (on paper), it's probably not minus 8 but minus 3-5 realistically. And that's with Rios and Dunn putting up similar seasons to what they managed in 2012 offensively. Dunn didn't have a good season, so I'm not sure why people think he's unlikely to repeat his 2012 totals. Also, I think Robin made some rookie mistakes last year that cost us some games. We could win a few more in 2013 just from his natural development.

No matter what, interviewing Trestman shows that Emery is exploring all options, which can only be a good thing IMO.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 10:07 AM) The Sox are that team in the middle that last offseason KW said he did not want to be. I don't think the next couple of years are going to be particularly fun to watch, but they have to wait until some contracts roll off the books to build an offense. Hopefully in that time they will have solidified their top 3 or 4 starters. We were 7th in runs scored last year, let's not pretend we have a bad offense. And let's be honest, this team's strength is its pitching and defense. We had one of the better defenses in baseball last year and it should only get better next season with the changes we've made. The starting pitching is the big wild card for us, but it has the potential to be one of the best in the game. People can continue to hate on this team if they want, but there's more than enough talent on the roster to win the division.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 10:26 AM) Why would a team take on Rios's remaining salary obligations while giving the White Sox anything useful back? Did you see what free agent outfielders were going for in free agency?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 08:02 AM) Hahn has filled the holes the Sox have already. At least in terms of the major league roster. You may not like the guys he's filled them with, but if the season started today, they can field a full roster with an obvious starter and backup at each position, a rotation 6+ deep, and a full bullpen. Who is on the bench other than Gimminez & Wise?

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 01:18 AM) If the next-Gen consoles use key codes, they'll be hacked. I'm not worried about it. We live in a world of free software. Honestly, I don't feel guilty either. Let's hope they don't get hacked. Developers are losing millions to the used game market. With growing development costs, the incentive to create truly unique, epic game experiences is shrinking. Companies are simply afraid to take big risks, look at how many games have become serialized and how some series have even become annualized. If something sells the first go around, the big companies will pump out sequel after sequel with minimal improvement, look at the Assassin's Creed series after AC II. Sure, we have independent studios making some great stuff and I'm all for that. But I also want to play the next Bioshock, the next Dishonered, the next truly original, epic game with big-time production values. This isn't the music industry, vidieo game companies don't have the equivalent of concerts to fall back on. They need huge game sales to continue making new AAA games. Ending used game sales, at least for next-gen systems, would be a huge step in the right direction.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 2, 2013 -> 10:09 AM) I tend to agree, primarily due to these exact scarcity reasons. In theory, a 4 fWAR from a pitcher is the same as it is from a hitter, but consider that 43 offensive players put up a fWAR of 4 or better this year while only 18 pitchers did. The only way I am dealing Sale is in a deal for a Trout, Cano, McCutcheon. Stanton does have MVP potential, so it'd be tempting, but I do think I'd have to turn it down. I agree with this 100%. Additionally, you have to consider the impact such a trade would have on your chances in the playoffs. An ace can single-handedly carry a team in a short playoff series. Regular season value does not directly translate to playoff value and if the ultimate goal is to win the World Series, nothing should be more valuable than an legit ace come October.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 2, 2013 -> 09:41 AM) With the injury concerns for Sale, and the fact he is a year away from starting his arb years, I'd do it as a straight up deal. I don't care if he has injury concerns, you don't trade a pitcher like Sale if you plan on competing in the near future, even for a hitter like Stanton. There is simply no way for us to replace a potential ace anytime soon.

The fear of the unknown is a terrible reason to keep a coach. Every team should strive for greatness and we all know Lovie isn't that. Lovie is two things, a great defensive coordinator and a very good motivator. Unfortunately, he has no ability to pick good offensive minds and his overall in-game managing is just plain bad. Does this make him a horrible head coach? No, he's so strong on the defensive side of ball that it makes up for some of his other shortcomings. However, it does make him incredibly flawed and prevents him from ever being a great head coach in the NFL. I actually don't see how keeping Lovie is up for debate. Does anyone here really think Emery wants to commit to Lovie as his long-term guy? Emery has worked his ass off to become a GM and now he's going to stake his career on a head coach that he was forced to keep for a year? If this guy has any kind of long-term vision, he'll want to hire his own guy who will better suited to carrying it out. And going the lame-duck route and keeping Lovie for one more season makes even less sense. Some good coaches will jump ship and you'll have a very hard time replacing them. Also, if you fire Tice, how are you going to hire a respectable OC? You pretty much have to give Bates the job. So after all this, Lovie is given another year to meet what criteria? Make the playoffs? Let's say the Bears don't, that's two years of not making the playoffs under Emery and even if he makes Lovie the scapegoat, the whole process will reflect poorly on him. Also, then we're talking about yet another OC Cutler will have to work with in 2014. I think the decision is pretty obvious for Emery. Fire Lovie and find a new head coach that matches the organization's long-term vision. p****footing around for another year would just add to this mess. I'm not too worried though, I think there's almost no chance Lovie is brought back.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 29, 2012 -> 11:20 AM) Probably zero. However, with how far away we are from the Tigers at this point, is our backup or utility infielder's defense prowess really a major concern? I still don't get why people think we are so far away from the Tigers. We outscored them by 22 runs last year, while only allowing 6 more runs. We were pretty much even with them last year in terms of production. Honestly, if Thornton doesn't blow 10+ games and Ventura doesn't make some major rookie mistakes, we could have won the division. And IMO the only guys who really overachieved last year were A.J., Rios, & Quintana. Dunn & Konerko sucked in the 2nd half, Ramirez had a bad year, and we didn't get much from Viciedo and Beckham. Sure, Peavy & Sale gave us excellent years, but they're both very talented pitchers. They could break down this year, but so could Verlander and the rest of the Tigers' pitching staff. I just think the two teams are a lot closer than most people think.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 29, 2012 -> 08:02 AM) Honestly, I'd imagine Zobrist is one of the more untouchable players around. From everything I've heard, the Rays absolutely love him and he pretty much personifies their play style. Yeah I agree. I think people around here like to drop the "it would cost Sale" bomb way too much, but in all honestly Zobrist is a great, versatile player under team control for three years at a club friendly rate. There's just no reason for the Rays to move him right now unless it makes their existing team better and the only guy who does that on the Sox is Sale. Unfortunately, Zobrist is just a pipe dream.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Dec 28, 2012 -> 12:11 PM) I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread, but how about Berkman as a LH bat? He might be a bit costly, but he could DH and play 1B with a very slim chance of playing some RF. I think if we go out and trade for a left-handed bat, it's got to be a long-term solution. We literally have nothing in the minors that will be able to help us anytime soon, unless Jared Mitchell cuts his strikeout totals significantly (which is highly unlikely). After that, we're talking about Keon Barnum, who is most likely 4 or 5 years away if he even makes it at all.

I just think trading Viciedo is risky given that we'll have five guys in our starting lineup over the age of 30 next year. We desperately need to develop some young position players soon or we're going to be in a real bad spot in the next year or two when Rios, Dunn, & Konerko are all possibly gone. Viciedo will be 24 to start next season and is under control for five more years. There's an incentive to stick with him and develop him into a legit middle of the order bat. There just isn't much behind him in the system.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 27, 2012 -> 07:40 PM) Actually, the effect could be pretty substantial. We only had Youkilis for 1/2 of a season, and even when we had him, he really wasn't the "high OBP" guy Boston had. Over the whole season, the Sox averaged a .286 OBP out of their 3b slot last year, and that's including the time Youk was there. Flowers could hit .180 and still match the OBP that the Sox got out of 3b last year, and Keppinger ought to match AJ pretty well on that mark, if not beat it. Good points, I sometimes forget how epically bad Morel was last year. Flowers should easily exceed that .286 OBP, hell he did so last year in minimal playing time. I just think Keppinger's BA is due to fall some and so will his OBP as a result. If so, his OBP may not be that much better than A.J.'s was last year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 27, 2012 -> 06:07 PM) More OBP and more contact, btw, is exactly what we've changed by the 2 guys swapped out. We've added a guy who takes a lot of pitches and a contact guy. But we lost a contact guy (A.J) and a guy who takes a lot of pitches (Youkilis). The net effect is pretty nothing. I do think Sanchez will be given a chance pretty quickly if Beckham struggles out of the gate and that would definitely give the bottom of the lineup more contact and OBP.

The Sox were 7th in runs scored in all of baseball last year. 7 of the 9 starters are returning. Of the two spots with new starters, only catcher is a clear downgrade. The opening day ages for our current lineup is 29, 33, 33, 37, 32, 24, 31, 27, & 26. So based on this info, we have one spot where we should definitely expect less production (catcher). We have another spot (1B), where age would suggest at least some regression and possibly a significant decline in production. We have four other guys at the tail-end of their primes, who have provided inconsistent production over recent years. Two of these guys are coming off great years, two are coming off below-average years. As a group, it's reasonable to expect them to be a little worse next year, but I wouldn't expect a significant decline overall. So the question becomes how much better will Viciedo, De Aza, & Beckham be next year and can Flowers exceed expectations? Can these four guys offset some of the likely declines in production mentioned above. IMO, I don't see the offense as a whole being that much worse next year unless Rios or Dunn have another historically bad season or if Konerko finally falls victim of age. In terms of total runs, I'd expect them to score less, but not significantly less. The real problem with our offense isn't gross output, but it's how streaky and inconsistent it can be at times. Unfortunately, that will require more contact & OBP.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 24, 2012 -> 08:38 PM) Iirc the issues with boras go all the way to Reinsdorf Yeah, I think that Reinsdorf has the most issues with him. We were unable to sign some high-end draft picks, in particular Bobby Seay, due to Boras. After that, we pretty much ignored all high-end Boras clients in the draft. Then you have some big free agent fiascos like Ordonez and A-Rod that pissed off both KW & Reinsdorf. I think a lot of people forget how serious we were in the A-Rod derby. IIRC we had the second highest offer on the table and Reinsdorf wanted to have a sit-down with A-Rod to try selling him on the idea of playing in a big market like Chicago, but Boras refused and A-Rod took the Rangers' much higher offer. The only good news is that Hahn seems more willing to work with Boras. In fact, I believe he's been our go-to-guy with all Boras dealings, such as the Andruw Jones signing a few years back. Hopefully this relationship will continue to improve and the Sox will consider drafting some Boras clients in the future, because we've passed on way too much talent in the last few years.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 23, 2012 -> 08:43 AM) What's funny is you don't even see how intolerant you were being with this post, not to mention condescending, because you actually believe your opinions are better than this and that his opinions have no insight, and should carry no weight whatsoever. QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 23, 2012 -> 10:48 AM) This is an absolutely LOL worthy reply, which I expected. QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 23, 2012 -> 01:04 PM) Actually, that WAS the point...so it's you that missed it...laughably. You do realize that almost every post you make in this forum is condescending right? I had to double-check that you're in fact the guy on here who talks down to everyone about everything. Don't know why I'm even wasting my time arguing with you. The mighty Y2HH already has all the answers!